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Tanaiste denies abusing power by fast-tracking 499 passports

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    #32
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,431 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    LoanShark wrote: »
    Being from Donegal,I would have to stand up for Mary and Pat,infact all our TDs on this one.
    Why? Either this behaviour is acceptable or not, where someone is from shouldn't come in to it.
    It is just a case of 'panic' when people discover their passport is out of date or nearly out of date that they have when they are going to go traveling..In all honesty how many of us ACTUALLY know when our passport is out of date..
    April 2010.

    How about a system where everyone can avail of this, rather than only the peopl "in the know"?


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    #33
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    AFAIK they have a system in the States where your driving licence runs out on your birthday. Not entirely infallible but such a simple step raises the awareness of the expiry date on such an important document. With little effort a similar idea could work for passports.


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    #34
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    I think most people's reaction to this would be something along the lines of "sure isn't it great to see TDs actually doing something for people, not sitting there up in Dublin voting on legislation and other rubbish".

    But why is this special service only available to applications passing through a TD's hands? Why can't I as a citizen avail of it through a post office? What does the TD add to the process?

    Pure clientelism and one of the reasons the country is in the toilet, imo. The TD adds nothing to the process, it is simply a privilage they reserve for themselves. It wouldn't suit them to have the service generally available.

    I wonder what other 'services' these TDs offer constituents in order to curry favour.


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    #35
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    LoanShark wrote: »
    ALL Politics is local!

    National politics should not be local.
    Thats what got this country into the tits up position it is in now.
    From corrupt planning to buy votes/get money to jobs for the boys.
    This kind of thing is a DISGRACE when public servants are paid to look after it.
    Kippy


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    #36
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    nesf wrote: »
    Kilkenny has a university now?

    Kilkenny is only a city through semantics. It is nothing more than a town. Waterford is a city by all accounts and is in need of a University. Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Galway - All heavily funded. Waterford gets nada.


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    #37
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    And why would that be?


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    #38
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Why would what be? Why would Waterford be a City or why does it need a Uni?


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    #39
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    On topic, please.


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    #40
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Exactly this is not a topic for whinging.


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    #41
    Schuhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    meglome wrote: »
    It's all quite dodgy when we've got a good passport service, we really shouldn't be allowing politicians to buy votes like this.
    Indeed, its not that its a big deal in isolation. Its just an indication of the gobber culture of Irish politics.

    Looking at An Post's website, its €8.50 to get a ten day delivery guaranteed. I take it the TDs relieve you of the need to dig out a tenner and you get it even quicker.

    The news article says something like 1,400 applications have been processed for Donegal since 2008. It also says 600,000 normal applications are done in a year. Donegal has about 3.5% of the State's population, so just taking a crude pro rata figure that might be about 21,000 Donegal applications.

    Which means about 6% of Donegal applications are 'urgent'. That just stinks.

    I think there's a very simple response to this. In future, lets all renew our passports by heading to a TD's clinic (there's enough of them) and demanding the Coughlan Express service. When there's 600,000 applications a year heading through that unit, we'll see if they're still able to turn them around in five days. Because if everyone's a priority, then no-one's a priority.

    I'd say again, this isn't exactly the stuff of Planning Tribunals. But this petty little abuse of something that I assume is meant to be for people who really need it is sickening. It would be like finding that the Tanaiste has been getting Disabled stickers for constituents so they can park where they like.

    Feck, that's probably putting ideas in her head.


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    #42
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    I think most people's reaction to this would be something along the lines of "sure isn't it great to see TDs actually doing something for people, not sitting there up in Dublin voting on legislation and other rubbish".

    But why is this special service only available to applications passing through a TD's hands? Why can't I as a citizen avail of it through a post office? What does the TD add to the process?

    Pure clientelism and one of the reasons the country is in the toilet, imo. The TD adds nothing to the process, it is simply a privilage they reserve for themselves. It wouldn't suit them to have the service generally available.

    I wonder what other 'services' these TDs offer constituents in order to curry favour.

    +1


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    #43
    LoanShark
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭LoanShark


    Victor wrote: »
    Why? Either this behaviour is acceptable or not, where someone is from shouldn't come in to it.

    April 2010.

    How about a system where everyone can avail of this, rather than only the peopl "in the know"?

    The reason I said where I was from was because if you had read the article No 1 was Mary and also high on the list was Pat the Cope and all other Donegal TDs had a high turn over on this..

    What they are doing is not illegal,So can it be considered acceptable behaviour...Yes!

    Did you really know when your Passport was out OR did you have to look? Tell The Truth..

    Everyone can avail of this...If you know who your local TD is Ask!!


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    #44
    LoanShark
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭LoanShark


    Schuhart wrote: »
    Indeed, its not that its a big deal in isolation. Its just an indication of the gobber culture of Irish politics.

    Looking at An Post's website, its €8.50 to get a ten day delivery guaranteed. I take it the TDs relieve you of the need to dig out a tenner and you get it even quicker.

    The news article says something like 1,400 applications have been processed for Donegal since 2008. It also says 600,000 normal applications are done in a year. Donegal has about 3.5% of the State's population, so just taking a crude pro rata figure that might be about 21,000 Donegal applications.

    Which means about 6% of Donegal applications are 'urgent'. That just stinks.

    I think there's a very simple response to this. In future, lets all renew our passports by heading to a TD's clinic (there's enough of them) and demanding the Coughlan Express service. When there's 600,000 applications a year heading through that unit, we'll see if they're still able to turn them around in five days. Because if everyone's a priority, then no-one's a priority.

    I'd say again, this isn't exactly the stuff of Planning Tribunals. But this petty little abuse of something that I assume is meant to be for people who really need it is sickening. It would be like finding that the Tanaiste has been getting Disabled stickers for constituents so they can park where they like.

    Feck, that's probably putting ideas in her head.

    There is alot more TD's Doing This!!


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    #45
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Too right and not just the government ones. Many FG and Labour ones will also oblige.


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    #46
    LoanShark
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭LoanShark


    kippy wrote: »
    National politics should not be local.
    Thats what got this country into the tits up position it is in now.
    From corrupt planning to buy votes/get money to jobs for the boys.
    This kind of thing is a DISGRACE when public servants are paid to look after it.
    Kippy

    I agree! But when the country is going down the swanny and there is no money to community projects then it is a local.

    Corrupt planning hapened at all levels..


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    #47
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    LoanShark wrote: »
    I agree! But when the country is going down the swanny and there is no money to community projects then it is a local.

    Corrupt planning hapened at all levels..

    This is not about community projects. Its about elected officials who get extremely well paid to run the country, wasting their time and in the process appear to have favourites/buy votes, completely disgraceful, and yet another example of why this country has gone the way it has.


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    #48
    Schuhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    LoanShark wrote: »
    There is alot more TD's Doing This!!
    You need to read and digest the article. It clearly states that, among Ministers, she is by far the most frequent user of the service and that only one TD (also from Donegal) uses the service more frequently.

    She accounts for 11% of all requests. You cannot credibly respond to these facts in the manner you have chosen.


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    #49
    LoanShark
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭LoanShark


    Schuhart wrote: »
    You need to read and digest the article. It clearly states that, among Ministers, she is by far the most frequent user of the service and that only one TD (also from Donegal) uses the service more frequently.

    She accounts for 11% of all requests. You cannot credibly respond to these facts in the manner you have chosen.

    I agree that she has nearly the most requests,I am not disbuting that..But as I have pointed out earlier she is not doing anything other than helping people in her area..All TDs are allowed to do this,The Passports are not being given away for free, It is a way for the people to use this to get thier TDs to work for them OR at the very least,feel that they have have got somthing for their vote..
    I would say the same thing for any other TD if they had the same volume


    This Discussion is never going to have a right or wrong solution!

    It has gone on for years,It is nothing new!


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    #50
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,312 ✭✭✭markpb


    LoanShark wrote: »
    It is a way for the people to use this to get thier TDs to work for them

    That's exactly the point! A TDs job is the legislate for the country, not to arrange express passports for you. What you're saying is that a TD is no more valuable to you than the local post office.


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    #51
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    LoanShark wrote: »
    I agree that she has nearly the most requests,I am not disbuting that..But as I have pointed out earlier she is not doing anything other than helping people in her area..All TDs are allowed to do this,The Passports are not being given away for free, It is a way for the people to use this to get thier TDs to work for them OR at the very least,feel that they have have got somthing for their vote..
    I would say the same thing for any other TD if they had the same volume


    This Discussion is never going to have a right or wrong solution!

    It has gone on for years,It is nothing new!

    There's a lot of things that have gone on for years. That does not make them right or ensure they are not reviewed.

    This "scheme" really is a joke. The people who get my vote don't get it as easily as this. FFS, people voting for TD's on this basis is a joke. It explains why we have so many idiots in the dail.


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    #52
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    markpb wrote: »
    A TDs job is the legislate for the country,

    I am afraid that's a romantic ideal of democracy that was never backed up by the system and structure in place in our parliament

    TDs are in effect local fixers, thats what they have been for many, many, years

    a handfull make it into Government and become involved in legislation...even then I would not call a lot of them "legislators"...a few actually influence drafting of legislation if its of particular interest but otherwise simply a figurehead, ceremonial role really


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    #53
    LoanShark
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭LoanShark


    Markpb and Kippy,
    Are either of you elected representatives?
    I Doubt It!

    Each and every politican and wanna be politican in the country will do this service,Weather you think it is important or not!!
    Politics is local,TD's are elected by us, SO if I,YOU or ANYONE asks them to help out in getting a Passport...They'll do it..People on the door step remember the small things and it is those small things that help..

    and if you think that our TDs think that helping a person out is not important, Then you are living in the clouds!


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    #54
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    LoanShark wrote: »
    Politics is local,TD's are elected by us, SO if I,YOU or ANYONE asks them to help out in getting a Passport...They'll do it..People on the door step remember the small things and it is those small things that help..
    Then why isn't it a service anyone can avail of directly without going through a TD? Why is it not publicised?

    It seems to me that the big attraction of the scheme is that by preventing the ordinary citizen from availing of the scheme directly, the TD is seen to "fix" something for the constituent. The constituent, not knowing any better, is then likely to be favourably disposed towards the TD in the next election.

    It is an arbitrary and unnecessary bit of power given to TDs that does not further the common good.

    I think most people can see why TD's themselves would be hugely in favour of it, but that is not the point here.


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    #55
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,312 ✭✭✭markpb


    LoanShark wrote: »
    Politics is local,TD's are elected by us, SO if I,YOU or ANYONE asks them to help out in getting a Passport...They'll do it..People on the door step remember the small things and it is those small things that help.. and if you think that our TDs think that helping a person out is not important, Then you are living in the clouds!

    I agree politics is local but I'm saying that's a problem with our political system. We elect them to run the country and when they get there, we expect them to fix our potholes and rush our passports. So basically what we're saying is that the best politicians are the ones who look after our local issues and we don't care how they run then country. And then we're shocked when the people running the country are incompetent. But at least you have your passport, right?

    If my TD promised to deliver a fast working passport issuing system, I'd vote for them. If they promised to deliver a well-financed, responsive local authority, I'd vote for them. I think those things are more important that asking our national representatives to do it themselves.

    Ask yourself, why is it that TDs can bypass the normal passport queue? What benefit does it have for society? None. It shows that our system is a little slow or cannot react to peoples emergencies and it also shows that our TDs want some way to show that they are "working" for the people.


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    #56
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    Then why isn't it a service anyone can avail of directly without going through a TD? Why is it not publicised?

    It seems to me that the big attraction of the scheme is that by preventing the ordinary citizen from availing of the scheme directly, the TD is seen to "fix" something for the constituent. The constituent, not knowing any better, is then likely to be favourably disposed towards the TD in the next election.

    It is an arbitrary and unnecessary bit of power given to TDs that does not further the common good.

    I think most people can see why TD's themselves would be hugely in favour of it, but that is not the point here.

    100% agree, tried but couldnt put in in words that well.

    Loanshark, I am not an elected representative but I vote in all elections I am eligible to vote in.
    Politics needs to change, things like this need to be things of the past. Get the local politicians or public servants to worry about it.


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    #57
    Schuhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    I'm really just chucking in my tuppence, as the substantial point has been made by others.
    LoanShark wrote: »
    I agree that she has nearly the most requests,I am not disbuting that.
    Well, not the most, just more than any other cabinet minister and more by far than any other TD, with the exception of Pat the Cope. But how could you dispute a fact in any event?
    LoanShark wrote: »
    But as I have pointed out earlier she is not doing anything other than helping people in her area..All TDs are allowed to do this,
    Yes, but herself and Pat the Cope seem to be among a small group of TDs who are openly abusing the system. This kind of discretionary power only works if TDs are responsible enough to use it sparingly. But she has shown that she does not have that responsibility.
    LoanShark wrote: »
    The Passports are not being given away for free,
    As I said in an earlier post, you would have to pay an extra €8.50 to use the express service through the Post Office. Clearly this TD service is in direct competition with the Post Office - it delivers a passport faster, and for free. Between them, Donegal TDs are depriving the Post Office network of €12,000 in income. And I've no doubt those very same TDs would complain if a rural sub-post office closed for lack of business - despite the fact that they are directly undermining those offices by abusing this service.
    LoanShark wrote: »
    It is a way for the people to use this to get thier TDs to work for them OR at the very least,feel that they have have got somthing for their vote.
    So it all down to Tammany Hall style jobbery?

    Can I agree on one thing, as I said earlier. The only feasible response to this is for us all to apply for our next passport through our TDs. Lets see how quickly the applications are turned around when every TD in the country finds ten applications a day heading their way.
    LoanShark wrote: »
    I would say the same thing for any other TD if they had the same volume
    The point is they don't.
    LoanShark wrote: »
    This Discussion is never going to have a right or wrong solution!

    It has gone on for years,It is nothing new!
    These are just meaningless flourishes.


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