strachan for Chelsea ?

jackdaw

My ... I have opened the virtual can of worms here haven't I ?!

Headshot

jackdaw wrote: »

My ... I have opened the virtual can of worms here haven't I ?!

going according to plan eh

Mitch Connor

DrumSteve wrote: »

shouldn't it be facefist?

That_Guy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

shouldn't it be facefist?

Or what about fistface?

DrumSteve

That_Guy wrote: »

Or what about fistface?

We're you saying burns or boo-urns?

Dancor

That_Guy

DrumSteve wrote: »

We're you saying burns or boo-urns?

Bit of both really.

jackdaw

boards.ie is amazing ...

put out a little "opinion" (from a guy like me , who has a reputation for spouting absolute CRAP!!)

and yet a debate RAGES !!!



sit back and enjoy the show ... maybe i should start a "Steve Staunton to Replace Alex Ferguson" ... thread ... jesus there'd be bedlam ... well no, the thread would be locked immediately..

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

Did you know that Rafael Benitez would become so successful at Valencia? Would you have hired this man for that job?
A manager who was successful with younger teams at Real Madrid but then went on to have a terrible start to his senior managerial with Real Vallodolid, followed by a horrific short spell with Osasuna, and then got promoted and relegated one season after the other with Extremadura before getting CD Tenerife promoted in his next stint in management.

Thats where the man was at when Valencia decided to take him on as their top guy. With the way you rate managers you would never have given him the chance. You would also have been giving out yards had he been the next Villa manager back then.

I wouldnt call his achievements at Extremadura or Tenerife a modicum of success, and it's two clubs not one. Also there's a big difference betweeen managing a club like Chelsea and Valencia.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I wouldnt call his achievements at Extremadura or Tenerife a modicum of success, and it's two clubs not one. Also there's a big difference betweeen managing a club like Chelsea and Valencia.

So how would you rate his achievements at them two clubs?

And whats the big difference between Chelsea now and Valencia when Benitez took over? Remember they had just been beaten for the second year in a row in the Champion's League final. They were one of the top sides in Europe.

Edit: As I've said already, I'm not belittling Benitez at all here. I'm not saying that Strachan is nearly as good as Benitez or ever will be. I'm simply saying that for people on here to have this attitude that they know that Gordon Strachan is not up to the Chelsea job is ludicrous. We just don't actually know if he is or not. His record so far does is decent to say the least. And its better than Benitez record was when he got the Valencia job.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

So how would you rate his achievements at them two clubs?

And whats the big difference between Chelsea now and Valencia when Benitez took over? Remember they had just been beaten for the second year in a row in the Champion's League final. They were one of the top sides in Europe.

Very good I think. Extremadura are now in the 3rd division I think, they had pretty poor resources and little chance of ever staying up. Tenerife finished 14th the season before Rafa got them promoted, they got relegated the next season and haven't looked like coming back up since then.

Valencia had never really come close to winning the league though, 00/01 being there best finish when they finished 5 points behind in 3rd

97/98 - 9th place 19 points behind
98/99 - 4th place 13 points behind
99/00 - 3rd place 5 points behind
00/01 - 5th place 17 points behind


That's hardly going into a club expecting to win the La liga like chelsea are expected to win the premiership.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Very good I think. Extremadura are now in the 3rd division I think, they had pretty poor resources and little chance of ever staying up. Tenerife finished 14th the season before Rafa got them promoted, they got relegated the next season and haven't looked like coming back up since then.

Valencia had never really come close to winning the league though, 00/01 being there best finish when they finished 5 points behind in 3rd

97/98 - 9th place 19 points behind
98/99 - 4th place 13 points behind
99/00 - 3rd place 5 points behind
00/01 - 5th place 17 points behind


That's hardly going into a club expecting to win the La liga like chelsea are expected to win the premiership.

Yeah right, they are the third biggest club in Spain and have always been. So they are expected to contend every year no matter who is in charge.
And two Champion's league final's in a row shows just how good they were, or are we now not rating the Champion's League?

Lets have a look at Strachan's record.

Four years at Coventry and keeps in the PL three of them with a team of nobodies. Sacked when the inevitable relegation happens. The club have since struggled to avoid relegation from the Championship for most of their seasons there.
Takes over a Southampton who have gotten into deep trouble under Stuart Gray and turns James Beattie (who previous manager Glenn Hoddle told would maybe make it in the third tier of Englsih football) into an England International and much sought after player.

He brings in Niemi, Fabrice Fernandes, Eric Hassli on loan(remember him? 6 goals in 9 games when they had no other striker). Most people had them as certs for relegation in October when he joined but they finish 11th. He goes on to finish 8th the next season and 9th in the league when he left the club in March 2004(they finished 12th), losing players like Dan Petrescu and Wayne Bridge along the way to the bigger clubs.
Southampton finish 20th and were relegated the following season and are now in League One.

He takes a break from management and comes back to take the reigns from Celtic in the wake of a hugely successful spell for Martin O'Neill.
Celtic win three in a row under him, and he even gets them though the group stages of the Champion's League in 07/08. He also wins an SFA Cup and two Scottish League cups and three manager of the year awards in succession.

Pro. F

eirebhoy wrote: »

Strachan managed to beat Man Utd, Milan, Shakhtar, Benfica, Villarreal, Spartak in Europe but failed against Aalborg, Copenhagen, Artmedia...

He spent 10 years in management at lower level teams learning how to stop the opposition. What he failed at was outclassing the opposition. Celtic shouldn't have to resort to trying to match the likes of Aberdeen with phsyical players. They should be passing them off the pitch with the likes of Naka, Brown, Crosas, McGeady and Maloney in midfield.

This.

Strachen should be judged by watching Celtic games imo. Each season they've gotten worse from what I've seen. To me he appears to be a small time manager.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah right, they are the third biggest club in Spain and have always been. So they are expected to contend every year no matter who is in charge.
And two Champion's league final's in a row shows just how good they were, or are we now not rating the Champion's League?

They were never expected to contend. 30 year gap between La liga titles, and in that time they only finished second 3 times, one of the times was the year after they won the league in 72. Hardly the record of a cup title challenging team. I dont really rate the champions leagues as a way to judge top clubs, the liverpool team of 04/05 was hardly brilliant side, I also dont think Porto or Monaco can go down as European greats either. What they did was still a brilliant achievement though.

eagle eye wrote: »

Four years at Coventry and keeps in the PL three of them with a team of nobodies. Sacked when the inevitable relegation happens. The club have since struggled to avoid relegation from the Championship for most of their seasons there.
Takes over a Southampton who have gotten into deep trouble under Stuart Gray and turns James Beattie (who previous manager Glenn Hoddle told would maybe make it in the third tier of Englsih football) into an England International and much sought after player.

He brings in Niemi, Fabrice Fernandes, Eric Hassli on loan(remember him? 6 goals in 9 games when they had no other striker). Most people had them as certs for relegation in October when he joined but they finish 11th. He goes on to finish 8th the next season and 9th in the league when he left the club in March 2004(they finished 12th), losing players like Dan Petrescu and Wayne Bridge along the way to the bigger clubs.
Southampton finish 20th and were relegated the following season and are now in League One.

He takes a break from management and comes back to take the reigns from Celtic in the wake of a hugely successful spell for Martin O'Neill.
Celtic win three in a row under him, and he even gets them though the group stages of the Champion's League in 07/08. He also wins an SFA Cup and two Scottish League cups and three manager of the year awards in succession.

And that makes him good enough to manage Chelsea? lol. Maybe if Chelsea are battling relegation they should give him a call, until he should be avoided like syphilis. If he cant win the SPL with two games to go playing team which they are 35 points and 23 points ahead of then he never have much hope of winning the premier league.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They were never expected to contend. 30 year gap between La liga titles, and in that time they only finished second 3 times, one of the times was the year after they won the league in 72. Hardly the record of a cup title challenging team. I dont really rate the champions leagues as a way to judge top clubs, the liverpool team of 04/05 was hardly brilliant side, I also dont think Porto or Monaco can go down as European greats either. What they did was still a brilliant achievement though.

Are you now saying then that you don't rate Benitez as he hasn't won a league with Liverpool? And that his Champion's League winning performance was nothing remarkable?

Chucky the tree wrote: »

And that makes him good enough to manage Chelsea? lol. Maybe if Chelsea are battling relegation they should give him a call, until he should be avoided like syphilis. If he cant win the SPL with two games to go playing team which they are 35 points and 23 points ahead of then he never have much hope of winning the premier league.

I don't know if he is good enough to manage Chelsea. Do you?
How do you know in all honesty?
You are taking one season to sum up his whole career out of what ten or thereabouts.
What would you have said a year ago when he had won his third consecutive league title at Celtic and managed to reach the last sixteen in the Champion's League?

What would you have said about Benitez after his first two spells in senior management outside Real Madrid?

As I have stated many times in this thread, I'm not saying that he is good enough, but I'm not saying that he wouldn't be hugely successful either.

My point all through this thread has been about this attitude of people on this forum who think they know it all.
In all fairness if you read between the lines, nobody would ever get a chance at managing a top class team, because if they haven't already done it they are not worthy of an opportunity in the eyes of many posters here. Thats just so ridiculous.

Barr

Giving Strachen the job would be akin to giving Scholari his job back - he just isn't good enough.

Jazzy

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you know what Gordon Strachan would be capable of, given a large budget and a group of world class players? And I mean do you have any clue?

just putting it out there but perhaps solve the worlds hunger problems? crack cold fusion? um... land didier drogba on mars?

eagle eye

Jazzy wrote: »

just putting it out there but perhaps solve the worlds hunger problems? crack cold fusion? um... land didier drogba on mars?

Nice, you really are admitting that you don't have a clue, but try to hide it with a ridiculous answer.

Jazzy

eagle eye wrote: »

Nice, you really are admitting that you don't have a clue, but try to hide it with a ridiculous answer.

no, i was having a laugh. wat crawled up ur ar$e?

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They were never expected to contend. 30 year gap between La liga titles, and in that time they only finished second 3 times, one of the times was the year after they won the league in 72. Hardly the record of a cup title challenging team. I dont really rate the champions leagues as a way to judge top clubs, the liverpool team of 04/05 was hardly brilliant side, I also dont think Porto or Monaco can go down as European greats either. What they did was still a brilliant achievement though.

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you now saying then that you don't rate Benitez as he hasn't won a league with Liverpool? And that his Champion's League winning performance was nothing remarkable?

My point was that just because you win/make a champions league final doesnt make you one of the best teams in europe.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They were never expected to contend. 30 year gap between La liga titles, and in that time they only finished second 3 times, one of the times was the year after they won the league in 72. Hardly the record of a cup title challenging team. I dont really rate the champions leagues as a way to judge top clubs, the liverpool team of 04/05 was hardly brilliant side, I also dont think Porto or Monaco can go down as European greats either. What they did was still a brilliant achievement though.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't know if he is good enough to manage Chelsea. Do you? No of course I dont, but from what I have seen of him I can give my opinion about it, and that's what I am doing.
How do you know in all honesty?
You are taking one season to sum up his whole career out of what ten or thereabouts. I'll sum his whole career so, good manager who if you want to avoid relegation and stay at mid table mediocrity. I wont rate his time at Celtic as anything brilliant or something to be in awe of.
What would you have said a year ago when he had won his third consecutive league title at Celtic and managed to reach the last sixteen in the Champion's League? I still would of said he's not good enough to manage chelsea

What would you have said about Benitez after his first two spells in senior management outside Real Madrid? Keep at, you've at Real you can do a good job. Very few managers will have a flawless career so no need to pack it at at a young age after two jobs.

As I have stated many times in this thread, I'm not saying that he is good enough, but I'm not saying that he wouldn't be hugely successful either.

My point all through this thread has been about this attitude of people on this forum who think they know it all.
In all fairness if you read between the lines, nobody would ever get a chance at managing a top class team, because if they haven't already done it they are not worthy of an opportunity in the eyes of many posters here. Thats just so ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is giving an unproven* manager one of the highest pressure jobs in world football? If John Terry and Lampard can get a world cup winning manager sacked they'd eat Strachan for breakfest. IF your Roman why would you give the job someone who never proved anything with a top club in a tough division when you can get a proven world class manager in? Not only that but he I doubt many of the top players in the world will think after finding out chelsea want to buy them think "Oh stachan, I've always want to play for him".


*unproven managing a side who demand success is a league that isn't a joke.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'll sum his whole career so, good manager who if you want to avoid relegation and stay at mid table mediocrity. I wont rate his time at Celtic as anything brilliant or something to be in awe of.

You just summed Benitez pre Valencia and not even. In fact Benitez pre Valencia career is very similar to what Strachan did before Celtic.

I didn't say you should be in awe of what he did at Celtic either. I said his results are that of a good manager and not a poor one as some peope would have you believe.

Anyways in summation, you have no clue whether or not he could do the job at Chelsea just the same as everybody else on here. You can make up an argument but when you look at Gordon Strachan's record there is nothing there that points to him as a falure in management. This 'a good man if you want to surive in the PL but nothing else' is a pathetic response. You just have no clue, I don't either but I am not pretending I have.
The only difference in our opinions is that I'm willing to accept that until a manager proves me wrong that he is capable of doing a job at a top club. Gordon Strachan has not done anything in his career to date which would lead me to believe he couldn't be successful at a top club.

You can guess alright and with the amount of managers that fail in the Premier League you are mathematically very likely to be correct if it did happen which is very unlikely. But really you are just guessing and you don't have the knowledge or insight to form an respected opinion, just like everybody else on here.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What's ridiculous is giving an unproven* manager one of the highest pressure jobs in world football?


*unproven managing a side who demand success is a league that isn't a joke.

Guardiola comes to mind immediately.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

You just summed Benitez pre Valencia and not even. In fact Benitez pre Valencia career is very similar to what Strachan did before Celtic.

I didn't say you should be in awe of what he did at Celtic either. I said his results are that of a good manager and not a poor one as some peope would have you believe.

Anyways in summation, you have no clue whether or not he could do the job at Chelsea just the same as everybody else on here. You can make up an argument but when you look at Gordon Strachan's record there is nothing there that points to him as a falure in management. This 'a good man if you want to surive in the PL but nothing else' is a pathetic response. You just have no clue, I don't either but I am not pretending I have.
The only difference in our opinions is that I'm willing to accept that until a manager proves me wrong that he is capable of doing a job at a top club. Gordon Strachan has not done anything in his career to date which would lead me to believe he couldn't be successful at a top club.

You can guess alright and with the amount of managers that fail in the Premier League you are mathematically very likely to be correct if it did happen which is very unlikely. But really you are just guessing and you don't have the knowledge or insight to form an respected opinion, just like everybody else on here.

Well if the criteria is for the job is a manager who is unproven then we'd be taking up alot of time with threads about every tom dick ad harry who could manage chelsea.

eagle eye wrote: »

Guardiola comes to mind immediately.

Barca legend so the fans wouldnt hate his appointment or turn on him as quickly.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well if the criteria is for the job is a manager who is unproven then we'd be taking up alot of time with threads about every tom dick ad harry who could manage chelsea.

No, not unproven but promising based on his career to date. A huge difference.