Traffic Corps Program on RTE

L-M

DublinWriter wrote: »

Draw your own conclusions, considering a lot of the action is based in Donegal, one of the least populous areas of the state.

I don't care where in this country it takes place. The law is the law and should be applied equally.

This show is a load of b***** in my opinion.

Tabnabs

Berty wrote: »

If that were so then where was the fine for driving on a privisional unacompanied.

Isn't there a €1000 fine for driving unaccompanied on a provisional? I was gobsmacked to see her being let off so lightly and let drive off. You wouldn't see it on CarWars... :pac:

TheNog

Berty wrote: »

So Tonights Episode:

To any Garda who will visit this post. I can only go on the information provided through editing.

I can very concerned about the woman with the 5 kids in the back of the car.

2 points and €80 fine. Was she not driving on a provisional without a fully licensed driver.

Im unhappy about this to say the least.

Yes but tbh we dont know if she was prosecuted for that. Her case may not have even be heard yet.

Vain wrote: »

Did the cops let the women who had 5kids in the back seat with no seat belts on, drive away with the 5kids in the back. Thats shocking if they did to be honest.

omerin wrote: »

and correct me if i'm wrong but they let her drive away! madness

Ferris wrote: »

Totally agree, she should have had the car taken off her and a 6 seat taxi called for her at the very least.

Question: Can someone point to me the piece of legislation which gives Gardai the powers to detain a car when it is being driven by a learner and/or with 5 kids unbelted in the back?

Answer: There is no such legislation therefore no Garda power to detain the car from the woman. No choice but to let her go. Who is at fault here? The Gardai? No. Its the legislation.

keefg wrote: »

If, as we are constantly told, that all this work done by the Traffic Corps is for our safety then there is no way that woman should have been allowed to carry on her journey.

She should have been made to find alternative transport rather than continue with an overloaded car.

But no....you can almost hear the noise of a till ringing....kerching....another 80 euro in the bank, thanks you very much, on your way now madam.

Again show me the legislation.

-Chris-

draffodx wrote: »

The Gardai on it appear to be VERY lenient, do people reckon this is just because the show is actually a pr stunt for the gardai to make them out to be a forgiving bunch to try to build a better relationship with motorists?

If I were in charge of this series, I'd be looking for the exact opposite effect - I'd want to show the public that, if you fcuk around on the roads, you're going to get done by the Gardai.

Road Wars and Cops show people that the traffic corps in the UK and the US aren't to be messed around with. That knowledge alone will make the roads safer.

Bendihorse

I just saw the trailer for next weeks episede and guess whos going to be on it?? Me. Cringe.

At the time i was aware of the cameras and the ott spiel taken directly from the book. I cant remember exactly what was said as this was recorded a year ago...
I know i was driving on the M1, phone beeped, i looked to see who it was from then put it down... Next thing looked in mirror and saw cops coming up behind me. Thought '****e' to myself but they dropped back out of sight again. Thought i was away with it. Next thing they came up behind me again at a rate of knots, blues and twos in full flight.

I pulled over, he asked me if i knew why or something like that, i said no. He said you were on the phone, is said no, it beeped and i picked it up, looked at it and put it down. He said 'the offence is for holding the device in your hand'. I remember saying 'ah come on, your not going to give me 2 points for that are you' he said yes and i said no more. I distinctly remember thinking that it was all very contrived for the camera (which i knew was there. I asked him why at the time to which he replied 'they are just recording what we do')

Anyway, i sucked it up as going by the book, i guess i was at fault. I got two points and a fine.

keefg

TheNog wrote: »

Yes but tbh we dont know if she was prosecuted for that.

I'd say there's no chance she received anything other that the 2 points & 80 euro fine showed in the programme. Otherwise I am sure it would have been mentioned to show what a "great: job the corps is doing to enforce road safety.

TheNog wrote: »

Answer: There is no such legislation therefore no Garda power to detain the car from the woman.

Maybe that's true but if it had been a nice expensive car that hadn't paid the VRT then it would be taken from her like a shot.

Why? Because there is revenue to be had!

Why should the powers that be give a sh!te about "the safety" of anyone if there's no money to be had.

Just goes a bit toward my thinking that they are revenue collectors and the whole spin about improving road safety in Ireland is just a crock.

TheNog wrote: »

Who is at fault here? The Gardai?

Not at all. Most of the guards on the ground are probably frustrated by the restrictions they have to follow.

Hooch

keefg wrote: »

Maybe that's true but if it had been a nice expensive car that hadn't paid the VRT then it would be taken from her like a shot.

Why? Because there is revenue to be had!

Why should the powers that be give a sh!te about "the safety" of anyone if there's no money to be had.

Just goes a bit toward my thinking that they are revenue collectors and the whole spin about improving road safety in Ireland is just a crock.

A now get real here. No need to have a go at thenog!!

If the VRT wasnt paid on a car then yes it should be taken off someone. I pay my road tax and paid VRT when I bought my car.....why shouldnt everyone else!!!!

There is no power to take a car from someone with 5 kids in the back! No need to turn this into a VRT debate, add to one of the thousand threads if you want.

Revenue collectors??? Garda Traffic Corps improving road safety is just a crock??? Have a look at the last few years stats and come back and tell me are the roads safer. Back your statement up with facts if you dont agree.

Anyone that thinks a member of AGS goes to work JUST to raise money for a government (who is taking money off members left right and centre) is living on another planet. Traffic members are there to enforce road traffic legislation and issue the penalties that go with them. Fining motorists is the only way to get them to see sense.....

delly

Just a couple of points re the shows so far;

The first being that i'd say AGS's top brass did a lot of head scratching to decide if this program should be made, obviously it can have potential positive and negative side effects. Its a new thing for us over here, so i'd say give it time to develop and the program may get better.

Another thing would be that a minority of posters on this thread actually know what the Gardai can do based on legislation, and there seems to be a lot of 'cease the the car' talk. Unless you know what other options could be done in the program to the offenders, its a bit like pulling made up punishments out of your arse.

The last thing is that the Gardai in the program seem to be very personable. You see so often threads here and elsewhere stating that people got pulled by ignorant Gardai with a Nazi like attitude giving them grief and throwing the book at them. Yet here you have a program with some Gardai using there discretion and been very professional when dealing with drivers and most people are disgusted by it. I know one thing for sure, if I was done for a motoring offence, i'd like it to be one the officers in the program dealing with me, as I might stand a chance of pleading my case resulting in a lesser penalty.

h3000

TheNog wrote: »

iQuestion: Can someone point to me the piece of legislation which gives Gardai the powers to detain a car when it is being driven by a learner and/or with 5 kids unbelted in the back?

Answer: There is no such legislation therefore no Garda power to detain the car from the woman. No choice but to let her go. Who is at fault here? The Gardai? No. Its the legislation.



Again show me the legislation.

Maybe they could not take the car from her but surely they could have and more the the point should have stopped her continuing her journey until all occupants of the car were properly seated and belted up.

EDIT:
If that meant that the woman had to provide alternative or additional transport for the kids so be it. To just let her drive away with all the kids unbelted in the back is madness.

Guy:Incognito

TheNog wrote: »

Yes but tbh we dont know if she was prosecuted for that. Her case may not have even be heard yet.







Question: Can someone point to me the piece of legislation which gives Gardai the powers to detain a car when it is being driven by a learner and/or with 5 kids unbelted in the back?

Answer: There is no such legislation therefore no Garda power to detain the car from the woman. No choice but to let her go. Who is at fault here? The Gardai? No. Its the legislation.



Again show me the legislation.

Is there any way at all, in any way, shape or form, to stop her drivign off with the kids still unbelted in the car ,with no child seats and too many people for the number of passengers the car can hold ?

Can you not make her stay at the roadside and arrange for her to have 2 of the kids collected and for a fully licenced driver to come and get in the car with her?


I'm sure there are ways and means, like the young lad in Donegal in the first episode, I know you reckoned its not financially worth it to take the car off him (which I still dotn think is the Gards call to make) but it could have been taken for the VRT offences if just to not let him continue driving unnacompanied and with the other offences.

TheNog

h3000 wrote: »

Maybe they could not take the car from her but surely they could have and more the the point should have stopped her continuing her journey until all occupants of the car were properly seated and belted up.

EDIT:
If that meant that the woman had to provide alternative or additional transport for the kids so be it. To just let her drive away with all the kids unbelted in the back is madness.

You are right and Im sure that Garda would have done anything to prevent her driving away but he has absolutely no power to prevent her driving away with the kids. So the answer is no he couldnt have prevented her driving off with the kids nor could he have taken the car off her.

Again folks Gardai can only act within the powers given within the law.

bladebrew

i think this show will turn people against the gardai,they are still only people doing there job,i do think it is dodgy to let the woman with 5 kids away though,i know they dont actually have the power to seize the car but they at least should have stated she is getting a €1000 fine for driving on a provisional alone,€80 fine dosent seem like enough for what she was doing,

the bus with the wires sticking out the side was shocking i know the gardai were concerned about a kid cutting his hand on it but (as a previous poster said) a blowout would have been a lot worse than a cut hand,although the guard did point out the thread depth was within the legal limit,so there wasnt much he could do on the spot

thank you to thenog for the insights,

TheNog

Stekelly wrote: »

Is there any way at all, in any way, shape or form, to stop her drivign off with the kids still unbelted in the car ,with no child seats and too many people for the number of passengers the car can hold ?

Can you not make her stay at the roadside and arrange for her to have 2 of the kids collected and for a fully licenced driver to come and get in the car with her?


I'm sure there are ways and means, like the young lad in Donegal in the first episode, I know you reckoned its not financially worth it to take the car off him (which I still dotn think is the Gards call to make) but it could have been taken for the VRT offences if just to not let him continue driving unnacompanied and with the other offences.

In a word "No"

Guy:Incognito

TheNog wrote: »

In a word "No"

Well then hitting her with the max penalty possible ( fine for driving unaccompnaied I'd imagine) would be the best course? with a quiet word that you might be more lenient were she not horrubly endangering her kids.



Plus, to the layman, who the program is aimed at afterall, none of the things are properly explained and only looks like the Gards are letting people off with little or no punishment.

h3000

TheNog wrote: »

You are right and Im sure that Garda would have done anything to prevent her driving away but he has absolutely no power to prevent her driving away with the kids. So the answer is no he couldnt have prevented her driving off with the kids nor could he have taken the car off her.

Again folks Gardai can only act within the powers given within the law.

I understand that the Gardai could not impound the car but do they really have no power to stop a car that has too many passengers (not enough seatbelts/seats) from been driven on public roads.

*not having a go at you TheNog I just find it all a bit crazy:eek:

jhegarty

When was this filmed ?

Johnny Utah

draffodx wrote: »

The Gardai on it appear to be VERY lenient, do people reckon this is just because the show is actually a pr stunt for the gardai to make them out to be a forgiving bunch to try to build a better relationship with motorists?

This series is only a PR stunt for the Traffic Corps and some senior Gardai, nothing more.

What a farce; they obviously have an agenda to appear as lenient and professional as possible in front of the camera, yet the reality is a lot different. I can guarantee you that most members of the leather-clad motorway gestapo would behave very differently and would be very strict if the cameras weren't rolling.

They managed to drag up all the stereotypes too- drunk foreign driver, boy racer, etc. On tonight's episode, for example, one Guard said the young fella 'was driving around like a boy racer'* FFS :rolleyes: Is that a legal term now? :rolleyes:

(* or something very similar to that effect, can't remember exactly what she said).




Also highlights how hopelessly clueless our traffic cops are with regard to basic knowledge of how cars work. There's smoke coming out of the engine there!







Seriously, you'd get a better insight watching D'Unbelievables.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8k1d8uX9Gw

(I'm not joking btw )

Damien360

The woman with kids unbelted.

It might only take a word from the guard to make the point and they will all belt up. Difficult if the car is overloaded but to make my point...

In-laws, travelling from Dublin to Kildare. 3 kids all wearing seatbelts and 2 in booster seats due to their age. One decides to act the maggot and unclips himself and stands in the rear seat. Right behind them was a marked squad car. Guard approached to hand out points when my sister-in-law explained the situation and asked the guard to give the kid a bolloking, which he duly did. The result of the reasonable guards actions was a happy mum, and 3 kids who never take off their seatbelt. They also get on to their grandad when he forgets his seatbelt. Job well done by the guard in that case.

Consistency would say he should have fined and given her points. Common sense says he did the right thing and got to the problem.

TheNog

Stekelly wrote: »

Well then hitting her with the max penalty possible ( fine for driving unaccompnaied I'd imagine) would be the best course? with a quiet word that you might be more lenient were she not horrubly endangering her kids.

The fine for having a passenger unbelted is €80 and 2 penalty points which can be done through the fixed charge penalty but the driving unaccompanied can only be dealt with through the court. Who knows if this woman was summonsed and hasnt been dealt with yet

Plus, to the layman, who the program is aimed at afterall, none of the things are properly explained and only looks like the Gards are letting people off with little or no punishment.

I agree with ye. Either the editing is really bad or there was little or no follow up on what happened in court or if court proceedings are pending

h3000 wrote: »

I understand that the Gardai could not impound the car but do they really have no power to stop a car that has too many passengers (not enough seatbelts/seats) from been driven on public roads.

*not having a go at you TheNog I just find it all a bit crazy:eek:

There is no power to prevent her from driving away. Crazy an all as it sounds

Johnny Utah

h3000 wrote: »

I understand that the Gardai could not impound the car but do they really have no power to stop a car that has too many passengers (not enough seatbelts/seats) from been driven on public roads.

*not having a go at you TheNog I just find it all a bit crazy:eek:

Yeah, of course they do. There was a segment last week where they stopped a bus which had too many people on board. A few people were told to get off and find alternative transport. The bus driver was prosecuted in court.

Guy:Incognito

Damien360 wrote: »

.

Consistency would say he should have fined and given her points. Common sense says he did the right thing and got to the problem.

People lie though. I see it at least 4 or 5 times a week around Tallaght alone. People with babies on their laps, or toddlers climbing around on the back seats. All will have a similar sob story. Yes, in your case it was true, but the next 4 or 5 people will probably be liars.

Just like all the people that are caught their first time ever (I promis Gard, it really is) in the bus lane. Bull. When I'm workign on the same job for a few weeks, I regularly see the same people that commute that way flyign past me in the bus lane.





Plus, seperate matter, but did I imagine it or when the male and female gard are talking near the end did he say to her somehtign like "yeah, just a bit of dangerous driving" and pass it off? Just seems a very flippant thing to say.

"ah sure a bit of dangerous drivign never killed anyone"

Damien360

Stekelly wrote: »

Just like all the people that are caught their first time ever (I promis Gard, it really is) in the bus lane. Bull. When I'm workign on the same job for a few weeks, I regularly see the same people that commute that way flyign past me in the bus lane.

Point taken. When I have to go in to Dublin on N7 a few days in a row and am stuck in traffic, I see the same few cars flying up the bus lane every day.

Bendihorse

jhegarty wrote: »

When was this filmed ?

I was filmed at the end of July 2008

copacetic

Bendihorse wrote: »

I just saw the trailer for next weeks episede and guess whos going to be on it?? Me. Cringe.

At the time i was aware of the cameras and the ott spiel taken directly from the book. I cant remember exactly what was said as this was recorded over two years ago.
I know i was driving on the M1, phone beeped, i looked to see who it was from then put it down... Next thing looked in mirror and saw cops coming up behind me. Thought '****e' to myself but they dropped back out of sight again. Thought i was away with it. Next thing they came up behind me again at a rate of knots, blues and twos in full flight.

I pulled over, he asked me if i knew why or something like that, i said no. He said you were on the phone, is said no, it beeped and i picked it up, looked at it and put it down. He said 'the offence is for holding the device in your hand'. I remember saying 'ah come on, your not going to give me 2 points for that are you' he said yes and i said no more. I distinctly remember thinking that it was all very contrived for the camera (which i knew was there. I asked him why at the time to which he replied 'they are just recording what we do')

Anyway, i sucked it up as going by the book, i guess i was at fault. I got two points and a fine.

I'm sure in everyones experience the person who gets caught comes up with every excuse in the book about why they weren't really doing anything wrong. I'll certainly be interested to see your 'spot'

Damien360

Stekelly wrote: »

Plus, seperate matter, but did I imagine it or when the male and female gard are talking near the end did he say to her somehtign like "yeah, just a bit of dangerous driving" and pass it off? Just seems a very flippant thing to say.

"ah sure a bit of dangerous drivign never killed anyone"

That was the lad in the avensis. Which begs the question...if someone rings trafficwatch or garda station to complain about someones driving, what can the guards do. They did not witness it, so complaint cannot be upheld ! Why bother with the trafficwatch number then and why bother ringing in ?

flazio

Didn't really see the point in pulling the citylink bus TBH. You can't really blame a driver for just getting on with driving his public bus. Traveling on these should be no more regulated then, say a Luas tram which has no seat belts but can travel at up to 70km/h on exclusive tracks.

keefg

nice guy always wrote: »

A now get real here. No need to have a go at thenog!!

Erm.....Where in my post did I have a go at The Nog? Nowhere, I just quoted his post so I could respond to the points he raised.

nice guy always wrote: »

If the VRT wasnt paid on a car then yes it should be taken off someone. I pay my road tax and paid VRT when I bought my car.....why shouldnt everyone else!!!!

There is no power to take a car from someone with 5 kids in the back! No need to turn this into a VRT debate, add to one of the thousand threads if you want.

I used the VRT issue as an example of the screwed up legislation the AGS have to work with.

I agree that regardless of you view on VRT it is the law in this country and should be paid and the AGS are there to enforce that law.

What I don't like is that the AGS have the power to seize a vehicle when there is outstanding revenue on it but are powerless to act to stop a potentially dangerous situation of a woman being allowed to continue her journey with 5 unrestrained children in the back.

Again....this would indicate to me that the Traffic Corps are required to prioritise revenue offences over "real" road safety issues.

nice guy always wrote: »

Revenue collectors??? Garda Traffic Corps improving road safety is just a crock???

In my opinion, yes.

nice guy always wrote: »

Have a look at the last few years stats and come back and tell me are the roads safer. Back your statement up with facts if you dont agree.

I would say that any improvement in driver behaviour, which isn't much from what I see day to day, would be due to the implementation of the penalty points system. Which was long overdue.

This is not a court of law and I do not have to provide anything, it's a discussion and I am just stating my point of view, if you disagree then you can go off and do your own research.

nice guy always wrote: »

Anyone that thinks a member of AGS goes to work JUST to raise money for a government (who is taking money off members left right and centre) is living on another planet. Traffic members are there to enforce road traffic legislation and issue the penalties that go with them. Fining motorists is the only way to get them to see sense.....

Did you even read my post? I do not think the AGS go to work thinking that at all. My gripe is with the legislators who decide what the AGS can and cannot enforce and those that prioritise avoidance of revenue laws and try to fool Joe Public by packaging it all up in the name of safety.

I was delighted when I heard that a dedicated Traffic Corps was going to be set up as I was fed up with the huge amount of jackasses on the roads and I really believed that they would make a significant improvement to Irish roads.

How disappointed I am to find that 2/3 years after they formed that the roads in Ireland are not much better, and that has nothing to do with any facts & figures we are fed by the government, just what I see everyday with my own eyes.

Every year hundreds of people are still being killed or seriously injured on the roads. According to the many news reports, a high % of these accidents happen at night and on what would be considered "back" roads.

And yet....where do I see cash registers, sorry, speed checks set up? On the main duel carriage ways (N4/N7/N11 etc) between 8-9 am and 6-7 pm catching commuters doing 5-10kph over the limit on their way to/from work. And you're telling me it's not about revenue?? Now who's living on another planet?

So, just to clarify for you, I am not having a go at The Nog or any other AGS. It's the f**ked up system that I don't like and being fed the usual spin by the government and told that "it's for my safety".

Berty

Bendihorse wrote: »

I just saw the trailer for next weeks episede and guess whos going to be on it?? Me. Cringe.

At the time i was aware of the cameras and the ott spiel taken directly from the book. I cant remember exactly what was said as this was recorded a year ago...
I know i was driving on the M1, phone beeped, i looked to see who it was from then put it down... Next thing looked in mirror and saw cops coming up behind me. Thought '****e' to myself but they dropped back out of sight again. Thought i was away with it. Next thing they came up behind me again at a rate of knots, blues and twos in full flight.

I pulled over, he asked me if i knew why or something like that, i said no. He said you were on the phone, is said no, it beeped and i picked it up, looked at it and put it down. He said 'the offence is for holding the device in your hand'. I remember saying 'ah come on, your not going to give me 2 points for that are you' he said yes and i said no more. I distinctly remember thinking that it was all very contrived for the camera (which i knew was there. I asked him why at the time to which he replied 'they are just recording what we do')

Anyway, i sucked it up as going by the book, i guess i was at fault. I got two points and a fine.

From the trailer I saw you were the person driving the Toureg, no?

If so the camera crew were right up alongside you on the road and could clearly see you with the phone in your hand.

Your hands may have well been dipped in red paint because who is to know you were not sending out 26 text messages or about to begin/just finished a phone call.

Bendihorse

copacetic wrote: »

I'm sure in everyones experience the person who gets caught comes up with every excuse in the book about why they weren't really doing anything wrong. I'll certainly be interested to see your 'spot'

I realise that so even though i didn't consider myself to be comitting a serious breach of the law i took it on the chin. He asked me was i on the phone, i said no, which i wasn't. I was straight up and told him i had looked at it to which he replied 'the offence is for holding the device in my hand.' Which i was and admitted to, albeit for about 3 seconds. No contest.

Berty wrote: »

From the trailer I saw you were the person driving the Toureg, no?

If so the camera crew were right up alongside you on the road and could clearly see you with the phone in your hand.

Your hands may have well been dipped in red paint because who is to know you were not sending out 26 text messages or about to begin/just finished a phone call.

They mashed two clips together, there was a girl in a car on a flip phone texting away to her hearts content with the (had to be) blatently obvious cop cruiser beside her. That was not me. I was shown in a Santa Fe in the next clip, with the guard speaking to me.

Mr. Presentable

I enjoyed the show so far. Criticism of the Gardai allowing themselves to be filmed is misplaced, though. They are not media professionals - just ordinary Joes. I shudder to think what I'd be like on camera. So it's understandable that their dialogue is a little forced and uncomfortable. Probably, if they get more series, they will become more confident and polished.

What the shows illustrates for me is the poor range of powers for the Gardai in legislation. What must it be like to be given a job to do, but not be provided with the tools to do it, and worse, be forbidden from bringing your own.

Also, and it may be editing, the number of yellow plated cars in the clips where the drivers appear to behave as though beyond the law.

In general the Gardai are portrayed as moderate, perhaps too moderate, but come across well given the constraints of the programme.