"Irish Republic" and the BBC - What is their problem?

gurramok

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Oh really? I know some.

Where? Needle in a haystack stuff.

Also, where are their political reps to kick up a fuss while they live in a 'foreign country'!

elambra

Yes but the fact is they use 'Irish Republic' a lot when describing Ireland. More than most people. There is a definite pattern of them doing so, and it appears that a lot of the time they do not want to refer to the country by its official english language name. I'm not the OP but I was thinking about this last week too... I live in London, have a very neutral viewpoint and still I feel upset that they appear to refrain from using 'Ireland' when describing the 26 counties. It feels slightly patronising to be honest, but it certainly doesn't affect my life as I have a life to live..

Maybe it's a certain writer, maybe it's because they do not feel that the Republic of Ireland deserves to take the name of the whole island as their official english language name. who knows.. one thing is that whether of not people care, they do not seem to like referring to the Republic of Ireland as it's official english language name 'Ireland'

elambra

Yes but the fact is they use 'Irish Republic' a lot when describing Ireland. More than most people. There is a definite pattern of them doing so, and it appears that a lot of the time they do not want to refer to the country by its official english language name. I'm not the OP but I was thinking about this last week too... I live in London, have a very neutral viewpoint and still I feel upset that they appear to refrain from using 'Ireland' when describing the 26 counties. It feels slightly patronising to be honest, but it certainly doesn't affect my life as I have a life to live..

Maybe it's a certain writer, maybe it's because they do not feel that the Republic of Ireland deserves to take the name of the whole island as their official english language name. who knows.. one thing is that whether or not people care, they do not seem to like referring to the Republic of Ireland as it's official english language name 'Ireland'

robinph

elambra wrote: »

... one thing is that whether of not people care, they do not seem to like referring to the Republic of Ireland as it's official english language name 'Ireland'

Becasue as has already been pointed out it is an ambigous word to use without further clarification, and they are already pushed for time in the news buletins I'm sure.

Dudess

Joey the lips wrote: »

i would consider myself Irish and republician I have to say though thank god this is in afterhours because its the daftest thread ever! I dont give a stuff what the brits call us I just care how they think of us

Why refer to them as "the Brits"? And why on earth care how they think of us? And I really don't understand this constant referring to the entire population of England collectively - I imagine you wouldn't be too happy if certain English people said "the Irish this", "the Irish that"... implying ALL of us.

elambra wrote: »

Yes but the fact is they use 'Irish Republic' a lot when describing Ireland. More than most people. There is a definite pattern of them doing so, and it appears that a lot of the time they do not want to refer to the country by its official english language name. I'm not the OP but I was thinking about this last week too... I live in London, have a very neutral viewpoint and still I feel upset that they appear to refrain from using 'Ireland' when describing the 26 counties. It feels slightly patronising to be honest, but it certainly doesn't affect my life as I have a life to live..

Maybe it's a certain writer, maybe it's because they do not feel that the Republic of Ireland deserves to take the name of the whole island as their official english language name. who knows.. one thing is that whether of not people care, they do not seem to like referring to the Republic of Ireland as it's official english language name 'Ireland'

Oh Christ, it's not a question of what they don't like or what they feel is deserved - why would they give a ****? Do you honestly think the BBC has this as official policy - "let's put the paddies in their place in our reports - MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!" And do you not realise how PC that organisation is? It's not to condescend or offend or... upset () - can't people just move on from that self-hating, persecutionary, paranoid nonsense? It's because this island is two states, whether we like it or not (and I for one don't) - the BBC is simply reflecting this. "Ireland" to those who are not well versed on the political situation just appears to refer to the entire island, hence the distinction.

By the way, people who hate "the Brits" and call people who dispute them "west Brits" should put their money where their mouth is and refuse to watch any English TV/films, refuse to support any English soccer teams - in fact refuse to follow soccer at all, ditto rugby, stop buying/reading English newspapers, magazines, books by English writers, and become fluent in Irish, only speaking English when necessary.

elambra

Interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state

at the bottom: British media usage by different organizations

Apparently the BBC are signed up to refer to our proper name - Ireland.. yet clearly some of their writers prefer to ignore their own style guide.

We are officially called Ireland. Anyone who is unclear about that should go do some reading on it, instead of foreign media incorrectly telling them the name of our country is 'Irish Republic'.

There is nothing more for me to say as I don't waste time getting into arguments, but the 'facts' in Wikipedia are enough for me to assume that, based on political history, some people in the BBC prefer to use the 'Irish Republic' instead of it's real name - Ireland.

Dudess

elambra wrote: »

Interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state

at the bottom: British media usage by different organizations

Apparently the BBC are signed up to refer to our proper name - Ireland.. yet clearly some of their writers prefer to ignore their own style guide.

Yeah, it must be a ploy to put down the Irish... I don't know, to them, there appears to be a need for the distinction - fair enough, they're coming from a different perspective.

robinph

I do like this bit though, where Lloyd George is seemingly more clued in on Celtic lingustics than deValera:

"...Mr. de Valera...handed Mr. Lloyd George a document in Irish, and then a translation in English. The Irish document was headed 'Saorstat Eireann' and Mr. Lloyd George began by asking modestly for a literal translation, saying that 'Saorstat' did not strike his ear as Irish. Mr. De Valera replied 'Free State'. 'Yes, retorted Mr. Lloyd George, 'but what is the Irish word for Republic'. While Mr. De Valera and his colleague were pondering in English on what reply they should make Mr. Lloyd George conversed aloud in Welsh with one of his Secretaries (T.J.) to the discomfiture of the two Irishmen and as Mr. De Valera could get no further than Saorstat and Free State Mr. Lloyd George remarked 'Must we not admit that the Celts were never Republicans and have no native word for such an idea"

mike65

Re Dudess last (exasperated) comment, its like an itch some Irish have to scratch away at isn't it? Of all the things to fixate about at times like these.

chopley

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, it must be a ploy to put down the Irish....

Easy excuse, but I don't think it is. Prove me wrong!!!!!

Dudess

I was being sarcastic.

chopley

elambra wrote: »

Yes but the fact is they use 'Irish Republic' a lot when describing Ireland. More than most people. There is a definite pattern of them doing so, and it appears that a lot of the time they do not want to refer to the country by its official english language name. I'm not the OP but I was thinking about this last week too... I live in London, have a very neutral viewpoint and still I feel upset that they appear to refrain from using 'Ireland' when describing the 26 counties. It feels slightly patronising to be honest, but it certainly doesn't affect my life as I have a life to live..

The BBC are not broadcasting for an Irish audience, and therefore don't have to take Irish sensibilities into account. They are broadcasting for the whole of the UK. That means NI + Scotland + Wales + England. When they say the "Irish Republic", this is considered clearer for a UK audience than "Ireland" which is also a geographical and cultural name for the whole of the island, of course. Bear in mind also that the British have their own different meanings for the terms "the North" and "the South", which as used by the Irish can be pretty inaccurate - the most northerly point of the island being in "the South" ;-)

irishgrover

The conspiracy theorists were killing me so ......
I've emailed them (the BBC) to ask is there any reason or guidelines for their use of Irish Republic over The Republic of Ireland (not to be honest that I really give a ****e one way or the other...).
It seems that the only exception is when referring to the soccer team , it always seems to be "Republic of Ireland".

I'll let you know if/when they get back to me..

dvpower

RaverRo808 wrote: »

But its just a small island country,why not refer to it as Ireland,when someone refers to something happening in Germany I dont say 'East or West'

Germany is a single state. Prior to unification, one would have referred to 'East or West'.

When referring to Canada or Argentina, do you just say America?
When referring to Wales, do you just say Britain?
When referring to Portugal, do you just say Iberia?
etc, etc, etc...

ejmaztec

irishgrover wrote: »

The conspiracy theorists were killing me so ......
I've emailed them (the BBC) to ask is there any reason or guidelines for their use of Irish Republic over The Republic of Ireland (not to be honest that I really give a ****e one way or the other...).
It seems that the only exception is when referring to the soccer team , it always seems to be "Republic of Ireland".

I'll let you know if/when they get back to me..

They know where you live, whatever it's called.:eek:


How about "Republic of Ireland Republic"? Got a nice ring to it - so good they almost name it twice?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

IIMII

Personally, I think they call us Republic of Ireland to demean the state, as if we are only a half-state rather then a fully independent state. I live in Ireland, not the Irish Republic, Republic of Ireland, their 26 county Éire (a 32 county Éire, yes), etc. It's Ireland, stoooopid. But that's the whole point, they aren't stupid. That's Germans for ya

mike65

IIMII wrote: »

Personally, I think they call us Republic of Ireland to demean the state, as if we are only a half-state rather then a fully independent state. I live in Ireland, not the Irish Republic, Republic of Ireland, their 26 county Éire (a 32 county Éire, yes), etc. It's Ireland, stoooopid. But that's the whole point, they aren't stupid. That's Germans for ya

You live on the island of and in the country of Ireland but the state of the Republic of Ireland.

IIMII

mike65 wrote: »

You live on the island of and in the country of Ireland but the state of the Republic of Ireland.

You see that's where republicans disagree with English people

toiletduck

It's to get back at us for voting the Wolfe Tones having the number one song in their poll a while back.

And tbh, 800 years and all that fades when compared with that crime.

ejmaztec

IIMII wrote: »

You see that's where republicans disagree with English people

Congratulations on your 800th post. That number sounds familiar, but I can't quite put my finger on it.:P

elambra

mike65 wrote: »

You live on the island of and in the country of Ireland but the state of the Republic of Ireland.

This is incorrect. The name of the state is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland, not 'Republic of Ireland'

I don't think people are understanding the issue here, The point is that the BBC mostly uses the term 'Irish Republic' instead of the correct name that is stated in article 4 of the Irish constitution - Ireland.

To Irish people, it appears that they refrain from accepting that the state that left the UK in 1921, and which developed into the state of Ireland today, has the right to call themselves by the geographical name for the whole island. I think this is exactly what IIMII is trying to explain too

And the reason why the soccer team is called RoI is explained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_national_football_team#History

Fratton Fred

elambra wrote: »

This is incorrect. The name of the state is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland, not 'Republic of Ireland'

I don't think people are understanding the issue here, The point is that the BBC mostly uses the term 'Irish Republic' instead of the correct name that is stated in article 4 of the Irish constitution - Ireland.

To Irish people, it appears that they refrain from accepting that the state that left the UK in 1921, and which developed into the state of Ireland today, has the right to call themselves by the geographical name for the whole island. I think this is exactly what IIMII is trying to explain too

And the reason why the soccer team is called RoI is explained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_national_football_team#History

The reason is simple, It is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. It Covers the United Kingdom. When referring to Ireland it would be correct to assume it is talking about that bit of the UK that has Ireland in the title. Any reference to republic is to differentiate it from the bit that is in the UK, therefore foreign.

Therefore, full of foreigners who shouldn't be watching the frigging BBC in the first place.

I hate the late late show. It bugs the ****e out of me, so do you know what? i don't ****ing watch it. the same applies to Sky News, last of the summer wine and Fair ****ing City.

phew:D

O'Coonassa

elambra wrote: »

This is incorrect. The name of the state is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland, not 'Republic of Ireland'

I don't think people are understanding the issue here, The point is that the BBC mostly uses the term 'Irish Republic' instead of the correct name that is stated in article 4 of the Irish constitution - Ireland.

The Irish Constitution is in conflict with both history and basic geography is the problem. Ireland is an island first and foremost. Accept it and move on

dvpower

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Seems fair enough.

btw, do you refer to people who live in the North as being from 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'? It is on their passport.

IIMII

elambra wrote: »

This is incorrect. The name of the state is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland, not 'Republic of Ireland'

I don't think people are understanding the issue here, The point is that the BBC mostly uses the term 'Irish Republic' instead of the correct name that is stated in article 4 of the Irish constitution - Ireland.

To Irish people, it appears that they refrain from accepting that the state that left the UK in 1921, and which developed into the state of Ireland today, has the right to call themselves by the geographical name for the whole island. I think this is exactly what IIMII is trying to explain too

And the reason why the soccer team is called RoI is explained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_national_football_team#History

You are wasting your time unfortunately. Problem with British ex-pats on this forum is that their own bit of rock hasn't been invaded for about the same amount of time that they have spent invading us.

And that's the difference in attitude. We say live and let live in relation to other countries, they just want to dictate. This nearly millenia long period of not being occupied is also partly the reason why they see no point in the EU beyond selfish balance of power politics, wheras everybody else sees the EU as an opportunity (ok it has problems) for us all to get along. It's our luck to be stuck next door to the one country that is determined to spoil the party.

Fratton Fred

IIMII wrote: »

You are wasting your time unfortunately. Problem with British ex-pats on this forum is that their own bit of rock hasn't been invaded for about the same amount of time that they have spent invading us.

And that's the difference in attitude. We say live and let live in relation to other countries, they just want to dictate. This nearly millenia long period of not being occupied is also partly the reason why they see no point in the EU beyond selfish balance of power politics, wheras everybody else sees the EU as an opportunity (ok it has problems) for us all to get along. It's our luck to be stuck next door to the one country that is determined to spoil the party.

Is that a chip on your shoulder on an entire intel factory?

Spannerman14

I really like BBC R2.. plays great tunes, no ads, and nice DJ's... what more do you want?

elambra

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The reason is simple, It is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. It Covers the United Kingdom. When referring to Ireland it would be correct to assume it is talking about that bit of the UK that has Ireland in the title. Any reference to republic is to differentiate it from the bit that is in the UK, therefore foreign.

Therefore, full of foreigners who shouldn't be watching the frigging BBC in the first place.

I hate the late late show. It bugs the ****e out of me, so do you know what? i don't ****ing watch it. the same applies to Sky News, last of the summer wine and Fair ****ing City.

phew:D

Who says only UK people can read the BBC website?
The BBC is the national news of a world power, is in the English language and is world renowned for it's news, anyone with an international perspective on things (e.g me) reads it alongside CNN and other news sources. Yes there is a UK version too but most interested people will read the international version of the BBC. I would prefer if they would call my country by it's correct name, not Irish Republic, otherwise we're going to have people all over the world thinking that it is the correct name for Ireland.

As for Sky news, that's another story... Why do so many TV's in Ireland have it on as their default station, e.g in pubs/train stations etc... It is an embarrassment, worse than RTE!

Berty

If you do not know what this means then you are too young

elambra

Spannerman14 wrote: »

I really like BBC R2.. plays great tunes, no ads, and nice DJ's... what more do you want?

Terry Wogans soothing voice!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

O'Coonassa wrote: »

The Irish Constitution is in conflict with both history and basic geography is the problem. Ireland is an island first and foremost. Accept it and move on

There is a huge differance between the north and the republic. There is a big differance between the republic of Ireland and Ireland.

Spannerman14

elambra wrote: »

Terry Wogans soothing voice!

Oh ya.. my wee cub loves him on the way to the creche..:)

O'Coonassa

Jorge Substantial Cerebellum wrote: »

There is a huge differance between the north and the republic. There is a big differance between the republic of Ireland and Ireland.

As I said Ireland is an island. As for the 'huge difference' I'm not sure the NHS and cheaper shopping amounts to such.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

O'Coonassa wrote: »

As I said Ireland is an island. As for the 'huge difference' I'm not sure the NHS and cheaper shopping amounts to such.

Yea, I suppose the fact that the North is ruled by another country, differant policies, currency, government etc etc. Just because we are on the same island does NOT make us the same, it does mean there are huge differances. Thinking they are the same is not smart.

Saying they are the same based on geographic location is also not smart... It is something that the two have in common.

O'Coonassa

Jorge Substantial Cerebellum wrote: »

Yea, I suppose the fact that the North is ruled by another country, differant policies, currency, government etc etc.

It's ruled by the people who live there. Mostly they're neo-liberal so-called 'white people' from Europe who read the Sun and the Star and watch RTÉ/BBC/UTV/SKY etc. They support English soccer teams and shop at Tescos, the difference is all in your head really.

Jorge Substantial Cerebellum wrote: »

Just because we are on the same island does NOT make us the same, it does mean there are huge differances. Thinking they are the same is not smart.

Just because we're all the one species living on the one planet we are all the same bar some very minor and insignificant differences. Just because the bacteria on the left side of the petri dish are not on the right side of the petri dish it doesn't give them some intrinsic mystical 'otherness'. Thinking they're different is downright deluded.

Jorge Substantial Cerebellum wrote: »

Saying they are the same based on geographic location is also not smart... It is something that the two have in common.

Along with absolutely almost everything else you care to mention other than the few effects of an imaginary border which is also shared.

Mike 1972

You know it really p1$$€$ me off when the BBC refer to "North Korea" and "South Korea" when everyone knows the correct terms are the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the Republic of Korea respectively.

Or maybe it doesnt :rolleyes:

Tar.Aldarion

I can't believe they call us this and get away with it on tv.

Berty

Berty wrote: »

If you do not know what this means then you are too young

Made in Cork! aka "Dagenham dustbin"

ejmaztec

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I can't believe they call us this and get away with it on tv.

Is that the "Thisish Republic" or the "Republic of This"?

ejmaztec

Deleted User wrote: »

Made in Cork! aka "Dagenham dustbin"

I wonder if anyone ever managed to get one through an NCT.:eek:

ejmaztec

ejmaztec wrote: »

I wonder if anyone ever managed to get one through an NCT.:eek:

Yes one of my friends has one! (restored)

Ostrom

Rebelheart wrote: »

The only satisfaction is that I can read really pompous English (or is it British?) academics, influenced by this "Irish Republic" illiteracy from the BBC, with the knowledge that every time they write so smugly about this "Irish Republic" that they are wrong, they are incompetent, they have not done their research properly, and they are unprofessional. And academics pride themselves on not being any of these.

Which academics?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

mcwhirter

Rebelheart wrote: »

Odd how when we had our Irish Republic the British refused to accept it, but now you can't stop them from accepting it. They are "Irish Republic" crazy - they love it.

How illiterate are these people? Really, I do mean that. I am specifically talking about the British Broadcasting Corporation. Why do they keep referring to this state by neither its official name nor its official description? Are they making a political point that I am not aware of? I have never, ever, ever heard or read a BBC report that refers to this state by its correct, internationally recognised name: Ireland. Indeed, they cannot seem to even manage the official description, Republic of Ireland.

The only satisfaction is that I can read really pompous English (or is it British?) academics, influenced by this "Irish Republic" illiteracy from the BBC, with the knowledge that every time they write so smugly about this "Irish Republic" that they are wrong, they are incompetent, they have not done their research properly, and they are unprofessional. And academics pride themselves on not being any of these.

This can compare to when Irish people say the 'english' when referring to british people..

Svalbard

silverside wrote: »

who cares really, its better than "Eire" or "Southern Ireland"

I don't mind Eire. It sounds like a magical place, somewhere near Mordor.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Turn on RTE 2 and then turn on BBC 2. There's two different teams both called IRL playing two different matches. I intially thought the BBC were replaying the Ireland Italy game.

Red_Marauder

What a bizarre thing to get offended about. I'm from the UK though maybe I wouldn't understand:eek:

So The Republic of Ireland is OK but not The Irish Republic?? And Eire, what's wrong with that? I hear British media saying "Ireland" all the time, including the BBC.

Koloman

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Turn on RTE 2 and then turn on BBC 2. There's two different teams both called IRL playing two different matches. I intially thought the BBC were replaying the Ireland Italy game.

If you had waited for the second half then you would of noticed that the caption had changed from IRL to NIR!

Someone must of had a quiet word at half time!

mcwhirter

Rebelheart wrote: »

Odd how when we had our Irish Republic the British refused to accept it, but now you can't stop them from accepting it. They are "Irish Republic" crazy - they love it.

How illiterate are these people? Really, I do mean that. I am specifically talking about the British Broadcasting Corporation. Why do they keep referring to this state by neither its official name nor its official description? Are they making a political point that I am not aware of? I have never, ever, ever heard or read a BBC report that refers to this state by its correct, internationally recognised name: Ireland. Indeed, they cannot seem to even manage the official description, Republic of Ireland.

The only satisfaction is that I can read really pompous English (or is it British?) academics, influenced by this "Irish Republic" illiteracy from the BBC, with the knowledge that every time they write so smugly about this "Irish Republic" that they are wrong, they are incompetent, they have not done their research properly, and they are unprofessional. And academics pride themselves on not being any of these.

I was watching, 'The wind that shakes the barley' recently and they use the term 'Irish Republic' frequently, and that is from the irish citizens in the movie, not the british. I can't see what the problem is.