So called "Lo Call" rates

kingofglantine

Hi all, not sure if there is a thread on this already, I can't find one anyway.
When I was reading through the call details of my phone bill last month (i'm on o2) I spotted that the lo call numbers I called had some very different prices (I often use open24 which is 1890, i sometimes call 1850 numbers also). I checked online to find out the actual price of the calls and as I had thought the 1890 numbers should have a rate similar to calling a landline per minute (so should use your minutes if you have a bundle??) while a 1850 number should have a fixed rate of about €0.05c no matter how long the call is.
Turns out i'm being charged €0.35 per minute for 1890 numbers (normally i'm €0.25 for landlines). This is a sneaky charge that apparently all mobile providers, and some landline providers have - they don't include these calls in your minutes or even charge them at the rate they're supposed to!
Further research led me to a site, http://www.sanoto1890.com which lists all providers charges and offers landline alternatives to many of these "lo call" numbers. Apparently comreg are investiging this scam - that was back in sept of last year, still no update.
Please visit the site, this should not be tolerated, it is actually robbery...

Tom Dunne

kingofglantine wrote: »

while a 1850 number should have a fixed rate of about €0.05c no matter how long the call is.

Only from landlines. Have you ever heard the term "Calls from mobiles may cost more?".

kingofglantine wrote: »

while a 1850 number should have a fixed This is a sneaky charge that apparently all mobile providers, and some landline providers have - they don't include these calls in your minutes or even charge them at the rate they're supposed to!

It's hardly sneaky when their price plans, including call costs are clearly available here.

kingofglantine wrote: »

Apparently comreg are investiging this scam - that was back in sept of last year, still no update.

Other than conjecture, do you have any links/evidence to prove this?

kingofglantine wrote: »

Please visit the site, this should not be tolerated, it is actually robbery...

It's hardly robbery if the prices are clearly displayed. It's a free market - they charge what they like, if you don't like what they charge, move your business elsewhere.

As a side note, the link doesn't work. Also, do you have any connection to that site?

TBH, this is quite similar to the "I got charged for Internet data. What a rip-off". People are quick to blame operators rather than accept responsibility for not checking prices before they use a service.

NuMarvel

That website is www.saynoto1890.com (I've no connection to said website). It's a handy website, I've used it a few times.

But yeah, as Tom says, it's not exactly that sneaky. I think a better option is to ask service providers to include a landline number in their text-based advertising (print, on-line, flyers, etc). It would be great if these numbers were included on TV ads as well, but I imagine radio ads are out of the question as it would be too much information for listeners.

kingofglantine

Not been back in a while sorry

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Only from landlines. Have you ever heard the term "Calls from mobiles may cost more?".

Yeah i've heard of the term, but i'm not sure if it alway states that, in particular government department sites or otherwise - ironically the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources being one of them - I don't intend to communicate with them from my mobile.
These are just a few examples, there are many more

www.dcenr.gov.ie/contact/
www.rsa.ie/CONTACT/CONTACT/Navigation.html
www.sky.com/portal/site/ireland
www.renault.ie/contact.asp

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It's hardly sneaky when their price plans, including call costs are clearly available here.

Yeah I see, of course thats a fair point but an 1890 number as such is a local call and as shown in the above examples the client you contact does not always state that it can be different - you surely can't be expected to know that by default for all types of phone number. BTW, have we yet got mobile operators charging different rates for landlines if for example they are on BT and not Eircom?? I think maybe Vodafone and Perlico did or am I wrong?
Effectively it would be the same thing. Then in theory maybe we would have to check the price of a call for every single operator and number type we ever call - yeah I always carry my mobile terms and conditions in my back pocket and read through them before I make a call or send a text - of course they're allowed as you say but is this not taking the p**s completly?
Maybe we should go back to yogurt pots with a string, one fixed rate but signal not brilliant.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Other than conjecture, do you have any links/evidence to prove this?

Yes here and comreg have since said to hell with it, we can't be bothered, we'll pass it on to someone else to deal with. A department to deal with issues of another department, an advisory board for that department, an advisory board to advise the first advisory board, an ombudsman to tick them off when they do something wrong - oh I love this country...

www.saynoto1890.com/media/comreg-to-probe-lo-call-mobile-tariff/

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It's hardly robbery if the prices are clearly displayed. It's a free market - they charge what they like, if you don't like what they charge, move your business elsewhere.

Should this not be the responsibility of the 1890 provider (in2tel) to ensure the correct price is charged, after all if every operator (mobile or landline - landline operators are also guilty, eg: www.btireland.ie/rates_basic.shtml ) charged whatever they wanted then wouldn't the whole 1890 thing would be pointless anyway?

Tom Dunne wrote: »

As a side note, the link doesn't work. Also, do you have any connection to that site?


TBH, this is quite similar to the "I got charged for Internet data. What a rip-off". People are quick to blame operators rather than accept responsibility for not checking prices before they use a service.

Sorry I pasted it wrong. No, i've no connection to the site, I realise my post may have seemed like that but that was because I was glad to see that some other people were not putting up with this bulls**t either

Sam Vimes

kingofglantine wrote: »

Should this not be the responsibility of the 1890 provider (in2tel) to ensure the correct price is charged, after all if every operator charged whatever they wanted then wouldn't the whole 1890 thing be pointless anyway?

There is no "correct price". The operators can put whatever charge they want on it

kingofglantine

Sam Vimes wrote: »

There is no "correct price". The operators can put whatever charge they want on it

Not so I think
http://www.in2tel.ie/1890.html

Sam Vimes

kingofglantine wrote: »

Not so I think
http://www.in2tel.ie/1890.html

What's your point? It says "for the price of a local call", not "included in packages". It gives prices for Eircom landlines even though they also have packages that include land line calls. Comreg probably have some rules in place about limits on 1890 numbers but there is no rule stating that they have to be included in call packages

edit:
meteor charges 15c per minute
O2 charges 35c
it looks like vodafone includes them
tesco charges 20c
3 charges 30c

So it looks like your understanding of it might be wrong

kingofglantine

Sam Vimes wrote: »

What's your point? It says "for the price of a local call", not "included in packages". It gives prices for Eircom landlines even though they also have packages that include land line calls. Comreg probably have some rules in place about limits on 1890 numbers but there is no rule stating that they have to be included in call packages

edit:
meteor charges 15c per minute
O2 charges 35c
it looks like vodafone includes them
tesco charges 20c
3 charges 30c

So it looks like your understanding of it might be wrong

My point is simply that the whole 1890 thing is basically rubbish.
All operators can charge whatever they want, bundle or no bundle, not as stated in the in2tel website.
Also as I pointed out earlier, companies offering 1890 numbers as a means of contact do not always inform you of this.

Sam Vimes

kingofglantine wrote: »

My point is simply that the whole 1890 thing is basically rubbish.
All operators can charge whatever they want, bundle or no bundle, not as stated in the in2tel website.
Also as I pointed out earlier, companies offering 1890 numbers as a means of contact do not always inform you of this.

Nowhere on the in2tel website does it say that if you have a bundle that includes landline calls that 1890 calls have to be included.

kingofglantine wrote: »

Also as I pointed out earlier, companies offering 1890 numbers as a means of contact do not always inform you of this.

They don't inform you of how to use the phone either, they assume you know certain things, such as the fact that your operator controls the price of an 1890 call, not them and if you have a query about the price you should contact your operator

edit:and 1890 calls aren't rubbish for people on meteor pre pay. landline calls are at least 20c per minute and 1890 calls are 15c

kingofglantine

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Nowhere on the in2tel website does it say that if you have a bundle that includes landline calls that 1890 calls have to be included.

I am not referring to bundles alone, generically the 1890 number system allows operators to charge what they like, whether you have a bundle or not.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

They don't inform you of how to use the phone either, they assume you know certain things, such as the fact that your operator controls the price of an 1890 call, not them and if you have a query about the price you should contact your operator

I understand that but as an additional point I think it begins to get confusing when every possible prefix could have a different price - sorry for going of point a little.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

edit:and 1890 calls aren't rubbish for people on meteor pre pay. landline calls are at least 20c per minute and 1890 calls are 15c

I stated that all operators can charge whatever they want which effectively makes 1890 numbers rubbish

Random

Yes, I hate 1850 / 1890 numbers etc.

I think you're pointing the finger at the wrong people though. You should point it at the people using these number rather than the networks IMO.

Davy

Random wrote: »

Yes, I hate 1850 / 1890 numbers etc.

I think you're pointing the finger at the wrong people though. You should point it at the people using these number rather than the networks IMO.

Ye id agree, i always same business numbers in my phone as the 01-whatever. Make a point of not saving the 1850/1890 numbers. Generally its easy enough to get a landline number for them, and then its free from my minutes.

Similar to this is companies using premium text numbers, which most radio stations for one use. I know todayFM make a point not too which is great.

kingofglantine

Random wrote: »

Yes, I hate 1850 / 1890 numbers etc.

I think you're pointing the finger at the wrong people though. You should point it at the people using these number rather than the networks IMO.

I guess i'd have to agree - us gullible irish paying through the roof (no pun intended, ahem property boom). Roll on the recession...

Still is misleading though when company ads say "contact us on lo call 1890 ******", maybe it should be "contact us on whatever your operator wants to charge 1890 ******"

Like Davy said, i've changed my "lo call" numbers to thier landline equivalents now

Davy

One of the easiest ways is to look for the number for international callers :pac:

Weekendrambo

Anytime you ring eflow & they say can you hold please while I get a supervisor, make your excuses and get them to ring you back!!

Spent a fortune ringing them lately with unpaid tolls letters!! Even though I had a tag account with them ... I'm with another company now!!

Tom Dunne

Moved from Mobiles/PDAs.

More of a consumer issue, I think.

Sam Vimes

The whole 1890, 1850 etc thing was brought in back in the day when people down the country were paying long distance rates to call companies in Dublin. Nowadays they're not really needed though. I get the landline numbers of any company I need to call on a regular basis too and sometimes I try 1800 xxx xxx where they give an 1890 number because very occasionally it works

kingofglantine

I wonder is there anyone yet that has "call 1800 xxx xxx - call costs from mobiles may vary":D:D:D

jor el

kingofglantine wrote: »

I wonder is there anyone yet that has "call 1800 xxx xxx - call costs from mobiles may vary":D:D:D

Actually, I believe a freephone number is only free from a landline, and may not be free from mobiles.

Anyway, what's the big deal? So a phonecall costs you a few cents, so what? It's not robbery, it's not sneaky, nor is it misleading. It's the price they charge for providing a service in a free market. Use it or don't.

kingofglantine

jor el wrote: »

Actually, I believe a freephone number is only free from a landline, and may not be free from mobiles.

Anyway, what's the big deal? So a phonecall costs you a few cents, so what? It's not robbery, it's not sneaky, nor is it misleading. It's the price they charge for providing a service in a free market. Use it or don't.

Without purposely trying to be so finite here but yea its only a few cents, its only a few euro, its only a tenner, etc etc etc - different people have different incomes - solicitor vs. shop assistant for example. I might attempt to guess what side of the fence you are on or how wise you are with your money - generically think of the money to be saved each year if you're a little smarter with it. Sorry off point a bit.
Money matters to everyone no matter how much. If you have to be on the phone for a long time then it costs a lot more.
If no other number is available then you have to call that number... or get the train to Dublin etc to call to the office - it gets a little more expensive

Random wrote: »

Yes, I hate 1850 / 1890 numbers etc.

I think you're pointing the finger at the wrong people though. You should point it at the people using these number rather than the networks IMO.

I think as Random previously said, now we have a good example of who to point the finger at.
Its unfortunate though that sometimes theres no other number available - or you could use 11811 to see if theres one, after all "its only a few cents"...

jor el

kingofglantine wrote: »

Without purposely trying to be so finite here but yea its only a few cents, its only a few euro, its only a tenner, etc etc etc - different people have different incomes - solicitor vs. shop assistant for example.

But it's not a tenner, or several euro, it's cents for a call. Not calling the number won't cost you a penny. If you can't afford the call, then simply don't make it?

kingofglantine wrote: »

I might attempt to guess what side of the fence you are on or how wise you are with your money

I don't see how that has anything to do with it. I stand to save about 50c a year by not calling 1890/1850 numbers, this is not a large amount of money in anyone's book.

I can't see how you can make that many calls to 1890 numbers, that the cost is worth any attention.

foggy_lad

anyone using the M50 toll on a regular basis will have huge bills from ringing the 1890 number to get their billing sorted out! this is a service that should have a freephone number!

jor el

foggy_lad wrote: »

anyone using the M50 toll on a regular basis will have huge bills from ringing the 1890 number to get their billing sorted out! this is a service that should have a freephone number!

If eflow send you a fictitious fine then you don't have to pay it or ring them, just ignore it. Alternately, send them an email, free, or write a single letter, 57c.

But yes, eflow's number should actually be free anyway.