SDLP MLA threatened by masked gunman

Terrontress

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8069343.stm

I wonder which group of people have the most to gain by denying SDLP access to a nationalist area of Lurgan.

Nodin

Terrontress wrote: »

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8069343.stm

I wonder which group of people have the most to gain by denying SDLP access to a nationalist area of Lurgan.

I would have thought it obvious.....

Last year Ms Kelly suffered a minor leg injury and her car was damaged when she was attacked by stone throwers.
She was targeted after condemning dissident republican violence in Craigavon.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8069343.stm

Joey the lips

Terrontress wrote: »

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8069343.stm

I wonder which group of people have the most to gain by denying SDLP access to a nationalist area of Lurgan.

Nodin wrote: »

I would have thought it obvious.....

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8069343.stm

Well said nodin but i suspect there is a political spin on this by terrontress otherwise it would have been worded differently!

As for denying the SDLP! Since there allegience claim with Fianna Failure it has made them a target on both sides of the community!

Perhaps this is more suitable for the daily mail or the sun or some crap tabloid like it!

Terrontress

I thought perhaps that those who have frustrated the democratic process with their intimidation of elected SDLP representatives in the past might be up to their old tricks again.

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/06/05/story14707.asp

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1311580/Sinn-Fein-is-accused-of-massive-vote-fraud.html

oscarBravo

Thread title edited, I was puzzled as to what a marked gunman was.

Terrontress

oscarBravo wrote: »

Thread title edited, I was puzzled as to what a marked gunman was.

Yeah, sorry about that. Typing using predictive text on my phone. Every so often the odd thing goes astray!

Was wondering how to change it but you have done so. Thanks.

Nodin

Terrontress wrote: »

I thought perhaps that those who have frustrated the democratic process with their intimidation of elected SDLP representatives in the past might be up to their old tricks again.

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/06/05/story14707.asp

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1311580/Sinn-Fein-is-accused-of-massive-vote-fraud.html

So accusation = fact. Fascinating. Later on I might dig up Gerry going on about 'securicrats' or some such, which we will henceforth treat as gospel.

Given that its been some years since those accusations were made you might explain why no court action was taken, particularily in light of the fact that a stronger SDLP would not be an unwelcome prospect to Governments either side of the border.

Joey the lips

I have to say there is no possibility of a political discussion in this thread becuase there is no politics to discuss! I tell you what! lets go back to 1970. Why not! Yawn Yawn Yawn

No Politics, No Facts, No discussion

Terrontress

Joey the lips wrote: »

I have to say there is no possibility of a political discussion in this thread becuase there is no politics to discuss! I tell you what! lets go back to 1970. Why not! Yawn Yawn Yawn

No Politics, No Facts, No discussion

What a well thought out and succinct point. Well done!

Terrontress

Nodin wrote: »

So accusation = fact. Fascinating. Later on I might dig up Gerry going on about 'securicrats' or some such, which we will henceforth treat as gospel.

Given that its been some years since those accusations were made you might explain why no court action was taken, particularily in light of the fact that a stronger SDLP would not be an unwelcome prospect to Governments either side of the border.

It may be some years since those incidents occurred but elections do not occur on a weekly basis. Furthermore, I'd say those who sponsored them still hold the positions of power in their parties which they did in 2001.

No court action took place as it is difficult to prosecute for the throwing of stones and eggs if the perpetrator is not caught in the act.

But by all accounts this previous assault on democracy was successful so it would make sense to do it again in the run up to the European elections.

Joey the lips

Terrontress wrote: »

What a well thought out and succinct point. Well done!

Why thank you!

Nodin

Terrontress wrote: »

It may be some years since those incidents occurred but elections do not occur on a weekly basis. Furthermore, I'd say those who sponsored them still hold the positions of power in their parties which they did in 2001..

Theres no proof whatsoever that those incidents occurred. As they were made by the 'opposition' at the time of a hotly contested election, this would call into question the motivation behind such claims.

It strikes me as rather strange, in not bizarre, to skip over the fairly obvious culprit of dissidents to accusing PSF, when the sole basis for this is unproven remarks from 8 years ago.

Terrontress wrote: »

No court action took place as it is difficult to prosecute for the throwing of stones and eggs if the perpetrator is not caught in the act...

So there was no conviction, so its an accusation. Nor were there convictions for doorstep intimidation of elderly voters (yes, theres an election tactic I can see a party known for grass roots work adopting) or electoral fraud.

Terrontress wrote: »

But by all accounts this previous assault on democracy was successful so it would make sense to do it again in the run up to the European elections.

'by all accounts'? There were no convictions. There are therefore no such accounts. It is, however, a matter of record, that the PSF vote has progressively increased and overtaken that of the SDLP over the last decade or so.

Now, as I asked before, why have there been no convictions for electoral fraud, which you seem to treat as real, if there was substance to the claims made?

Joey the lips

Dont waste your time Nodin the women is mad and the OP's arguement is flawed! Just look at the no. of votes she gets! Ah well there is always fianna failure![/SIZE][/B]

'No smash and grab'



01 January 2009
By Staff reporter


FROM: David McConaghie, chairman Craigavon DUP.
The wild assertions made by Councillor Dolores Kelly in her letter of December 25 need to be considered in their entire political context.

When Councillor Kelly first emerged as the senior SDLP spokesperson in Upper Bann her party was defending 11 ADVERTISEMENT,947 first preference votes.

At the last electoral test in 2007 shrank to just under 5,500 votes – all on Councillor Kelly’s watch.

In such dire straits it is only to be expected that a politician will seek to restore party fortunes and preserve their own seat.

It is, however, very regrettable that Councillor Kelly would seek to do so by making such wild, hysterical and incorrect allegations.

There was no ‘smash and grab’ carried out on Margaret Ritchie’s budget.

The DSD Minister returned £38 million that she was unable to spend, this was then reallocated.

Furthermore the SDLP Minister was not sufficiently exercised about this reallocation to vote against it at the Executive.

When the announcement on fuel poverty was made the Minister for Finance and Personnel was able to help some 100,000 homes in Northern Ireland, a full 36,000 more than Margaret Ritchie had asked for.

I fully understand that faced with a situation where instead of having nearly two full quotas in an Assembly election, the SDLP has seen its vote slashed to a position where it now enjoys less than one electoral quota, and that all of this has occurred whenever she has been the leading SDLP figure in Upper Bann, I do fully understand that Cllr Kelly might seek some kind of rehabilitation.

However, the fact that she would choose the path of utterly baseless allegations really says more about her time at the helm of the SDLP than it does about any decisions taken by the Minister for Finance and Personnel or the Executive as a whole.

Nodin

O I'm not saying no-one waved a gun at her....

Terrontress

Nodin wrote: »

Theres no proof whatsoever that those incidents occurred. As they were made by the 'opposition' at the time of a hotly contested election, this would call into question the motivation behind such claims.

It strikes me as rather strange, in not bizarre, to skip over the fairly obvious culprit of dissidents to accusing PSF, when the sole basis for this is unproven remarks from 8 years ago.



So there was no conviction, so its an accusation. Nor were there convictions for doorstep intimidation of elderly voters (yes, theres an election tactic I can see a party known for grass roots work adopting) or electoral fraud.



'by all accounts'? There were no convictions. There are therefore no such accounts. It is, however, a matter of record, that the PSF vote has progressively increased and overtaken that of the SDLP over the last decade or so.

Now, as I asked before, why have there been no convictions for electoral fraud, which you seem to treat as real, if there was substance to the claims made?

And if no convictions are made in relation to this recent intimidation of Dolores Kelly will that mean it did not happen either?

Nodin

Terrontress wrote: »

And if no convictions are made in relation to this recent intimidation of Dolores Kelly will that mean it did not happen either?

Theres an independent witness to the incident, as oppossed to taking the word of some SDLP councillor making vague remarks about 'people who approached him' with frankly laughable claims about door step intimidation.

She's been attacked before.

She's on the policing board, a number of whom have also been attacked by dissident republicans.

Now, getting back to the claims of electoral fraud - I put a question to you above.....

Joey the lips

Yep she is making loads of friends in her community! We will know next election who is right!



Town a dissident hotspot










[URL="javascript: ShowThumb(0);"][/URL]






THE threat from dissident groups in Lurgan is greater than anywhere else in Northern Ireland.
Six people were arrested last week and later released without charge in a police operation that has been linked to dissident activity in the town.

Just days before the arrests Chief Constable Hugh Orde had listed Lurgan along with south Armagh as ADVERTISEMENT




the two areas of Northern Ireland where the dissident republican threat is greatest.

Four men were arrested when undercover police stopped a car on the Antrim Road in the town on Thursday night.

Another person was arrested in Lurgan after a number of houses were searched on Friday and a sixth person was arrested in Craigavon on Saturday morning.

Police came under attack from stone throwers during follow-up searches on houses in the Kilwilke area and the railway line.

On Friday night three people were arrested on suspicion of public order offences.

Services on the railway line between Portadown and Lisburn were cancelled on Thursday night so that searches could be carried out and trains continue to be disrupted due to rioting and its effects.

Injury

It is understood one police officer suffered a minor hand injury during the riots.

St Michael’s Grammar School was also closed for the day on Friday.

Commenting on a major policing operation which led to a number of arrests, Upper Bann MLA Dolores Kelly said: “The threat from dissident groups is now officially considered to be greater in Lurgan than anywhere else in the north.

“We are talking about a tiny handful of people who have no public support, as was amply demonstrated in the election. They have nothing to offer, no programme, no manifesto, indeed no politics. All they can do is disrupt the lives of hard-working people.

She added: “People who threaten the safety of railway travellers or who are prepared get up to their nefarious activities around a school full of children quite simply need to be put out of business. We are now finally moving forward towards a shared future and these tiny groups cannot be allowed to derail progress, not even for a day. Anyone with information on their criminal activities should get in touch with the police.

Terrontress

Nodin wrote: »

Now, getting back to the claims of electoral fraud - I put a question to you above.....

And I believe I answered it.

Souljacker

There have always been fascists in Republican movement who've used intimidation to silence people in the national community who speak out against terrorists.

I'm not surprised fascist republicans who feel justified in using violence today, are continuing the provos very successful policy of intimidation.

I find it very interesting to see how some people here still feel fit to make excuses for these acts of intimidation. shrugging them off as 'laughable.' I think it's up to all democrats to stand up to fascism in all its forms.

FTA69

Terrontress wrote: »

I thought perhaps that those who have frustrated the democratic process with their intimidation of elected SDLP representatives in the past might be up to their old tricks again.

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/06/05/story14707.asp

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1311580/Sinn-Fein-is-accused-of-massive-vote-fraud.html

Tin foil hat much?

Joey the lips

Souljacker wrote: »

There have always been fascists in Republican movement who've used intimidation to silence people in the national community who speak out against terrorists.

I'm not surprised facials republicans who feel justified in using violence today, are continuing the provos very successful policy of intimidation.

I find it very interesting to see how some people here still feel fit to make excuses for these acts of intimidation. shrugging them off as 'laughable.' I think it's up to all democrats to stand up to fascism in all its forms.

Thats interesting I thought the same of your point!

Terrontress

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thats interesting I thought the same of your point!

What? That he has to stand up to fascism in all its forms?

Nodin

Terrontress wrote: »

And I believe I answered it.

Re allegations of electoral fraud? No, I can't see where you did. You made a remark re the difficulty of proving egg throwing or the like and that was about the size of it.

Terrontress

I made no comments about electoral fraud.

I am talking here about an elected SDLP official being subject to intimidation while canvassing in the run up to a major election.

I have provided links to reputable news sources outlining that this has been orchestrated against SDLP in the past with the party firmly pointing the finger at Sinn Fein supporters.

You asked that if this were the case, why was there no convictions and my response was that unless someone was seen throwing eggs or stones that it would be nigh on impossible to do so.

Have you read my posts correctly?

Souljacker

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thats interesting I thought the same of your point!

Why thank you. Isn't it great that we all seem to be so interested in what's in each other’s posts lately, makes for a pleasant change.

http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2005/01/over_fifty_atta.php

Attacks on the sdlp are nothing new, they've come from loyalist and republican paramilitaries. Both are an affront to democracy from Fascists who believe they can force minority views on the majority through intimidation and violence.

Nodin

Terrontress wrote: »

I made no comments about electoral fraud.

You linked to two articles which contained that as the main accusation.

Does this refer to egg throwing?

But by all accounts this previous assault on democracy was successful so it would make sense to do it again in the run up to the European elections.

Seems a bit big on the hyperbole for such a thing....

Terrontress wrote: »

I am talking here about an elected SDLP official being subject to intimidation while canvassing in the run up to a major election.

No, I'm afraid you aren't. You're here to blame PSF for it, despite a good deal of context that would suggest otherwise.

Terrontress wrote: »

I have provided links to reputable news sources outlining that this has been orchestrated against SDLP in the past with the party firmly pointing the finger at Sinn Fein supporters.

Yes, you linked to unsubstantiated allegations that would be 'blame PSF for it', despite a good deal of evidence to link it to dissident republicans.

Terrontress wrote: »

You asked that if this were the case, why was there no convictions and my response was that unless someone was seen throwing eggs or stones that it would be nigh on impossible to do so.

So out of the article you selected, you've cherry picked minor incidents that are hard to prove and possibly the work of a few gougers, and chosen to ignore the (I would have thought)fairly serious and far more provable potential offence of election fraud not to mention the OAP targeted doorstep intimidation

Terrontress wrote: »

Have you read my posts correctly?

From the outset.

Terrontress

Nodin wrote: »

You linked to two articles which contained that as the main accusation.

Does this refer to egg throwing?



Seems a bit big on the hyperbole for such a thing....



No, I'm afraid you aren't. You're here to blame PSF for it, despite a good deal of context that would suggest otherwise.



Yes, you linked to unsubstantiated allegations that would be 'blame PSF for it', despite a good deal of evidence to link it to dissident republicans.



So out of the article you selected, you've cherry picked minor incidents that are hard to prove and possibly the work of a few gougers, and chosen to ignore the (I would have thought)fairly serious and far more provable potential offence of election fraud not to mention the OAP targeted doorstep intimidation




From the outset.

I didn't mention electoral fraud. It may have been contained in the article but I was referring specifically to the threatening of people canvassing for SDLP.

Whether it's throwing eggs, stones or insults; politicians should be free to go out to the public without the fear of intimidation.

My initial question, which you have failed to answer, is which group will stand to gain the most in the run up to the European elections if the SDLP cannot communicate with the Nationalist electorate?

Nodin

Terrontress wrote: »

I didn't mention electoral fraud. It may have been contained in the article but I was referring specifically to the threatening of people canvassing for SDLP.?

So you're saying your remark "assault on democracy" had nothing to do with electoral fraud? Just tp be clear here.

Terrontress wrote: »

Whether it's throwing eggs, stones or insults; politicians should be free to go out to the public without the fear of intimidation.

Absolutely. And free from unsubstantiated accusations thrown wildly about the place too.

Terrontress wrote: »

My initial question, which you have failed to answer, is which group will stand to gain the most in the run up to the European elections if the SDLP cannot communicate with the Nationalist electorate?

A rather loaded question. It presumes that the sole motivation for such an attack must be the election for starters, and therefore it can only be a rival that would be behind such a threat.

Why do you ignore this?

Last year Ms Kelly suffered a minor leg injury and her car was damaged when she was attacked by stone throwers.

She was targeted after condemning dissident republican violence in Craigavon. The Chairman of the Northern Ireland Policing Board Professor Sir Desmond Rea offered his support to Ms Kelly who is a board member.

(my bold)
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8069343.stm

Dissidents have targeted other members of the police board also, haven't they?

Souljacker

Nodin wrote: »

So you're saying your remark "assault on democracy" had nothing to do with electoral fraud? Just tp be clear here.

Surely that remark was made in response to a political representative having an air gun shoved in their face and being told to leave the area.

You brought up the electoral fraud question because it was in the article which also dealt with intimidation. Terrontress has said twice now they weren't talking about electoral fraud as plainly as is humanly possible. I am utterly bewildered why you still seem to be confused?

Nodin

Souljacker wrote: »

Surely that remark was made in response to a political representative having an air gun shoved in their face and being told to leave the area.

emm...no...it referred to the allegations outlined in the two news articles from 8 or so years ago -

But by all accounts this previous assault on democracy was successful so it would make sense to do it again in the run up to the European elections.

Now were I to be told there'd been a successful 'assault on democracy' and asked to pick which - between egg throwing and electoral fraud - was the method being referred to, I'd go for the latter.

Souljacker wrote: »

You brought up the electoral fraud question because it was in the article which also dealt with intimidation. Terrontress has said twice now she wasn't talking about electoral fraud as plainly as is humanly possible. I am utterly bewildered why you still seem to be confused?

See above. What does confuse me is the sudden leap to PSF, given both recent and current events. Her previous treatment by dissidents is noted in the OP. From UTV....

Doloros Kelly said the incident in an area known to house dissident republican elements would not deter her from her work.

http://www.u.tv/News/MLA-undeterred-after-Lurgan-threat/7ebefd56-80a1-475b-b185-c57355e4621b

......

Souljacker

Nodin wrote: »

emm...no...it referred to the allegations outlined in the two news articles from 8 or so years ago -

Now were I to be told there'd been a successful 'assault on democracy' and asked to pick which - between egg throwing and electoral fraud - was the method being referred to, I'd go for the latter.

Nodin you forgot three very important words here ‘in your opinion’

An opinion which is wrong. How do we know this? You’ve been told twice by the OP that this is not the argument.

And now you're telling Terrontress what they meant?? A little arrogant no.


Let me read you out the first paragraph of the article your referring to:

SINN FEIN, the IRA's political wing, is engaged in electoral fraud "on a massive scale" and intimidation of voters during canvassing, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP claimed yesterday.