Let's end this 'dole is too much' stuff

Mr Benevolent

...with a simple chart from the OECD.



Image tags... bah humbug.

Mr. Presentable

Now find one from 2008/9

phasers

I'm moving to Luxembourg

snubbleste

or better still, find a comparison of jobseekers allowance

Mr Benevolent

nipplenuts wrote: »

Now find one from 2008/9

That's stupid. All the other countries will have increased their dole in line with inflation as well.

magick

Confab wrote: »

That's stupid. All the other countries will have increased their dole in line with inflation as well.

its not stupid, just need up to date information

That suggests we are twice our nearest neighbour - we are not twice as rich as our nearest neighbour.

RonMexico

It is too much.

Confab

Confab wrote: »

That's stupid. All the other countries will have increased their dole in line with inflation as well.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-15052009-AP/EN/2-15052009-AP-EN.PDF
According to Eurostat our annual rate of inflation was -0.7% in April. By your logic it should be cut.

af_thefragile

There shouldn't be one in the first place...
But then again, there shouldn't be a lot of things along with it for it to work...

super_furry

It's not just the dole though (which incidently is about 20% more than your chart there. It's all the extra benefits which ensure that in many cases , people are better off on the dole than working.

Mr Benevolent

That suggests we are twice our nearest neighbour - we are not twice as rich as our nearest neighbour.

Logic?

Are we 2 1/2 times poorer than Luxembourg? No.

The EU average dole payment is 50% more than Ireland's. Ireland is one of the three most expensive countries in the EU. So why are we paid a dole figure that ranks in the bottom three?

RonMexico

This country doesn't need any more scroungers. You are lucky to be getting anything and if you put as much effort into finding a job as you do into scrounging for free handouts this country would be in a much better place.

Mr Benevolent

RonMexico wrote: »

if you put as much effort into finding a job as you do into scrounging for free handouts this country would be in a much better place.

I paid for my dole with my PRSI contributions. I pay VAT, duties and other taxes. That's not scrounging. Do I need to explain this more simply? You need to differentiate between city centre druggies and honest people who have paid plenty for their dole entitlement.

I send out CVs every day. If people lost their holier then thou smugness they might begin to understand. There is no such thing as free money.

Ponster

I don't think it's just as easy to compare figures like that without considering the social welfare systems of each country.

In France you get 80% of your last wages when made redundant but only for 6 months or so. After that it's a sliding scale down to about €150 per week after a year of not finding work. The figures you present are the maximum figures for dole in each country but not the actual 'real' figures as such.

af_thefragile

Confab wrote: »

I paid for my dole with my PRSI contributions. I pay VAT, duties and other taxes. That's not scrounging. Do I need to explain this more simply? You need to differentiate between city centre druggies and honest people who have paid plenty for their dole entitlement.

I send out CVs every day. If people lost their holier then thou smugness they might begin to understand. There is no such thing as free money.

For a lot of people Dole is free money.
Though i'm not gonna accuse you as you seem to be genuinely in need of it.

I think the government should have some sort of plan, like instead of giving away free money as Dole, they could like give the people some work to do.
That would seriously be a lot more productive. They could like make them clean up the city or build things or something like that... Anything!

This is what i don't like about the government. It absolutely lacks any sort of an imagination!!

magick

af_thefragile wrote: »

For a lot of people Dole is free money.
Though i'm not gonna accuse you as you seem to be genuinely in need of it.

I think the government should have some sort of plan, like instead of giving away free money as Dole, they could like give the people some work to do.
That would seriously be a lot more productive. They could like make them clean up the city or build things or something like that... Anything!

This is what i don't like about the government. It absolutely lacks any sort of an imagination!!

agreed, some sort of "work for ur dole" system should be put into effect

Mr Benevolent

magick wrote: »

agreed, some sort of "work for ur dole" system should be put into effect

I have no problem with that, although the practical issues are huge, not least that it may take jobs away from the people who have them. Insurance is another issue.

PeakOutput

magick wrote: »

agreed, some sort of "work for ur dole" system should be put into effect

the tanaiste(i think it was) was on newstalk earlier with exactly this type of plan

employers sign up and graduates get 6 months work placement in the relevant areas (i assume) and at the end of it the employers can interview them for a full time position

there is a similar scheme for people who are not graduates

sounds good and in fact imo those people should be given more than the dole and those that dont sign up / arent working in the scheme get less to offset it

af_thefragile

Confab wrote: »

I have no problem with that, although the practical issues are huge, not least that it may take jobs away from the people who have them. Insurance is another issue.

They could always think of a new job.
Like c'mon. This is what i was saying about imagination.

They could:
Clean up the streets.
Clean up the liffey.
Build a monument.
Look after the gardens.
Help old people cross streets.
Assist people.

I dunno, like there are hundreds of things one could think of for them to do that would give them something to do and at the same time serve the city too.

As for insurance, well, they're already paying so much for the Dole, they should be able to get a cheap insurance cover too. Its not like some high risk job they need to do. And they're the government, they make the laws! They could do without insurance for the "Dole workers". Just look after them if anything goes wrong.

easyeason3

magick wrote: »

agreed, some sort of "work for ur dole" system should be put into effect

I suggested this a few weeks ago & most of the people who posted got very angry at the thoughts of someone working for their dole money as they thought it would result in jobs being lost because employers would abuse the system. I was also told to stop dreaming & get a job, I wish it was that easy. These are the very same people who pour scorn on people signing on, it's a classic catch 22.

Anyway if the dole was cut then we would have to accept it. People working are taking pay cuts left, right & centre so why not cut it even by €10?
Yes I have paid taxes, like everyone else, but I don't expect or want to be given what I consider free money so if a reduction is needed then I'm all for it.

I think if you spend your money on 'fags & booze' then yes the dole is too high.
If you spend it on paying bills & keeping your head above the water then it is just enough, but there is scope for a slight reduction.

kraggy

The cost of living in this country has been steadily decreasing since last year. Thus, social welfare payments should also. End of story.

Black Lead

magick wrote: »

agreed, some sort of "work for ur dole" system should be put into effect

Back in 1999 the Wexford Council with FAS took dozens of long term unemployed and gave them part time jobs for 6months cleaning streets, looking after parks and graveyards etc etc but this is when they had the money nowerdays there is no money to fund/run these kinda things but soemthing of a similar line should be re-introduced

SEPT 23 1989

In times of recession and depression its always a really good feeling to put the boot into the poor,the sick,children and the elderly,sure they caused the mess didnt they

easyeason3

Black Lead wrote: »

Back in 1999 the Wexford Council with FAS took dozens of long term unemployed and gave them part time jobs for 6months cleaning streets, looking after parks and graveyards etc etc but this is when they had the money nowerdays there is no money to fund/run these kinda things but soemthing of a similar line should be re-introduced

It's called a CE scheme but you have to unemployed for at least 12 months to qualify which is ridiculous. These schemes are still in place.
I don't understand why someone should get €204 a week when they could be doing some of the above mentioned on a part time basis.
It gives people a sense of worth & responsibility as well as leaving them available to find full time work in a sector they have experience in.

Can you imagine the difference that could be made to cities, towns & villages with even a fraction of the people signing on?

Jet Black

This is what is needed but will never happen..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_the_dole


If the goverment were to do something like this it would cost an estemated 100m (translation 500m) and would not work.

Xiney

The dole isn't too much.

And yes, some people abuse the system.

But the vast majority of new applicants these days are just like you and me - professionals that have worked all their adult lives and have been let go from their jobs with nothing coming up.

There isn't enough being done in terms of retraining and the existing CE schemes are woefully inadequate. But hopefully things will turn around before too long - because while we're headed for 20% unemployment, the government is going to have to take notice.

Jet Black

RonMexico wrote: »

This country doesn't need any more scroungers. You are lucky to be getting anything and if you put as much effort into finding a job as you do into scrounging for free handouts this country would be in a much better place.

Thats the attitude I hate, what about the people who lost there jobs and after handing out 100's Cvs cant get work. If you were unemployed and could not get a job what would you do?

RonMexico wrote: »

You are lucky to be getting anything

How true.

RonMexico

Applicants for the dole should have to work three days a week in Government schemes. The receive theri dole payments at the end of the week. The rest of the week they have free to look for a higher paid job than the dole.

Plenty of work to be done out there for €200 on a three day work schedule.

Cleaning
Gardening
Litter Patrol
Maintaining grass verges, roundabouts & other green areas.

Don't give me that bull about other people losing their jobs as a result of this because there is enough evidence out there that these things need to be taken care of. If people are being paid to do this work already then they deserve to lose their jobs because clearly they aren't doing said job. You only have to drive around any of our cities to see the state of some areas. They badly need a bit of TLC.

Give applicants a choice of jobs and if they don't want to do it then dole payments should be cut by 50%. Then we'd see whether the dole is too much or not.

Mr Benevolent

RonMexico wrote: »

If people are being paid to do this work already then they deserve to lose their jobs because clearly they aren't doing said job.

I'd respond to that but the hypocrisy staggers me.

Jet Black

I think people should be kept in there jobs and paid the 200 for working there
Example.. If I was let go from my full time job paid 15per hour, I would be employed back by the company to do the same job at reduced hours working 13 hours.
The employer still pays the tax to the government.