Let's end this 'dole is too much' stuff

RonMexico

Oh the outrage.

Mr Benevolent

Mask wrote: »

I think people should be kept in there jobs and paid the 200 for working there
Example.. If I was let go from my full time job paid 15per hour, I would be employed back by the company to do the same job at reduced hours working 13 hours.
The employer still pays the tax to the government.

Not a bad idea really.

mollypop

Confab wrote: »

...with a simple chart from the OECD.



Image tags... bah humbug.

That's so skewed! :rolleyes: If you look at what your average dole bum (someone who's never worked) gets in these countries you'll find Ireland much higher on the list. According to this (much more intelligent) analysis we're the 10th best country in the world for the ol dole:
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/apr/05/states-of-grace-dole-payments-around-the-world/

dsmythy

The dole is too much! (Considering we pay much less tax than some of the other EU15 countries.)

Blackjack

I'm all for the work for your dole scheme.

I've no huge issues with people getting the 204 a week as long as they're willing to contribute, as opposed scratching thier arse.


I'm sure I'll be shot down in flames for this, but I'm going to suggest it anyway:
A simple system whereby you must contribute a least one day a week's community work, be it street cleaning, tidying up a park, cleaning graffitti, etc, to ensure that someone qualifies for the full amount.

If you don't turn up, your dole is docked, so you only get say 150 a week.

The people that do it get Extra dole, there's less accusation of "scrounging", and if they have to clean up the crap some little scumbag in their area has been seen doing, they're more likely to be open about this and suggest to sadi scumbag that they shouldn't have to do it. I.E - Oi, Scumbag, I just finished painting that wall, feck off, etc. Tame, Lame, I realise, but you get the social Ideal at least.

Someone has to manage the process, so in doing so there is additional employment created but essentially, overall, this should be aimed with being done at a lower/same cost of achieving the same amount of work than it would if the Council were required to do it.

The money that would be saved, could be spent properly on other infrastructural projects, as opposed to being syphoned off tidying up ****holes after scumbags all the time.

A social Welfare system that rewards people for doing nothing isn't working, it need to be changed.

Wagon

af_thefragile wrote: »

For a lot of people Dole is free money.
Though i'm not gonna accuse you as you seem to be genuinely in need of it.

I think the government should have some sort of plan, like instead of giving away free money as Dole, they could like give the people some work to do.
That would seriously be a lot more productive. They could like make them clean up the city or build things or something like that... Anything!

This is what i don't like about the government. It absolutely lacks any sort of an imagination!!

It's a lovely idea. getting out and working for your dole money is like having a job. It keeps you from mind numbing boredom (you can call dole people what you want, the boredom is a killer sometimes). It can make you a little proud knowing that you've done something to help. It would make many who are out of work feel good.
but there will always, and i mean always, be those that take advantage of a nice system like that. and it'll be screwed around completely. Very nice idea but the logistics are too open to being tampered with.

Jet Black

Blackjack wrote: »

I'm all for the work for your dole scheme.

I've no huge issues with people getting the 204 a week as long as they're willing to contribute, as opposed scratching thier arse.


I'm sure I'll be shot down in flames for this, but I'm going to suggest it anyway:
A simple system whereby you must contribute a least one day a week's community work, be it street cleaning, tidying up a park, cleaning graffitti, etc, to ensure that someone qualifies for the full amount.

If you don't turn up, your dole is docked, so you only get say 150 a week.

The people that do it get Extra dole, there's less accusation of "scrounging", and if they have to clean up the crap some little scumbag in their area has been seen doing, they're more likely to be open about this and suggest to sadi scumbag that they shouldn't have to do it. I.E - Oi, Scumbag, I just finished painting that wall, feck off, etc. Tame, Lame, I realise, but you get the social Ideal at least.

Someone has to manage the process, so in doing so there is additional employment created but essentially, overall, this should be aimed with being done at a lower/same cost of achieving the same amount of work than it would if the Council were required to do it.

The money that would be saved, could be spent properly on other infrastructural projects, as opposed to being syphoned off tidying up ****holes after scumbags all the time.

A social Welfare system that rewards people for doing nothing isn't working, it need to be changed.

Something like the australian system.

Basic Work for the Dole
Placements are available in a wide range of areas including heritage, the environment, arts, community care, tourism, sport and making and maintaining community services and facilities. Most projects benefit the general community through services and adding value to civic assets, however, some projects in drought affected areas are designed to benefit private enterprise (through the Drought Force scheme).
Upon successful completion of a Work for the Dole placement, participants are usually eligible for a Training Credit to assist with accredited training ($800 for six months, less for less time), a Passport to Employment package of job application training, and a fortnightly transport supplement.
Work for the Dole services are delivered through community or local government bodies, or by the Green Corps.

Blackjack

Mask wrote: »

Something like the australian system.

absolutely.

Terry

Mask wrote: »

Something like the australian system.

Best of luck finding places for 300,000 people.

Mr.Lizard

I' ve no problem with the value of the dole as it stands. I consider it 'supression tax'. An amount I pay to keep the scum of this country from running riot and totally destroying the place. I imagine that's what the government think as well?

dotsman

Confab wrote: »

...with a simple chart from the OECD.



Image tags... bah humbug.

Congratulations. You found a bull$hit statistic on a bull$hit Irish left-wing website. You didn't need to start a thread hoping that there would be other gullible people too.

kraggy

Terry wrote: »

Best of luck finding places for 300,000 people.

There's plenty to be done in this country to improve the way it looks. Enough for even 400,000.

Blackjack

Terry wrote: »

Best of luck finding places for 300,000 people.

Should we leave things as they are so, as to do something for even a fraction of that number might be too much effort?.

Ponster

Ponster wrote: »

I don't think it's just as easy to compare figures like that without considering the social welfare systems of each country.

In France you get 80% of your last wages when made redundant but only for 6 months or so. After that it's a sliding scale down to about €150 per week after a year of not finding work. The figures you present are the maximum figures for dole in each country but not the actual 'real' figures as such.

Exactly. The dole in other countries is much more 'fair' in that those who put in more get more back. It's not a perfect system, but a lot better than what we have.

af_thefragile

Mask wrote: »

This is what is needed but will never happen..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_the_dole


If the goverment were to do something like this it would cost an estemated 100m (translation 500m) and would not work.

I can't see how it would cost the government that much money just to make people on Dole work a little for their money?!

Just hand the person a freaking broom and tell him to clean the place to earn his dole money!!!
Why does the government has to come about and complicate the **** out of everything?!!?!

Tell the government to hand me the Dole money and i'll freaking impliment it myself for little or no extra cost!!

Its just another government's excuse for being lazy or if implemented, tax people more...

pickarooney

PeakOutput wrote: »

the tanaiste(i think it was) was on newstalk earlier with exactly this type of plan

employers sign up and graduates get 6 months work placement in the relevant areas (i assume) and at the end of it the employers can interview them for a full time position

Or just hire another graduate for free. Pretty easy decision I would imagine.

vibe666

phasers wrote: »

I'm moving to Luxembourg

it would be a lot more useful to move everyone on the dole here over to the UK and pay them to look after them. would only cost us half as much then.

Seaneh

the dole is about 10600 a year (204 a week) and thats not too much IMHO, but I feel foreign nationals shouldn't be entitled to it unless they have lived here for hwoever long it takes to gain nationality and then excerise their right to become irish nationals.

Won't be a popular view but I don't care, in times like thise we need to look after our own and let poland, the UK, france or where ever else look after their own.

Xiney

Seaneh wrote: »

the dole is about 10600 a year (204 a week) and thats not too much IMHO, but I feel foreign nationals shouldn't be entitled to it unless they have lived here for hwoever long it takes to gain nationality and then excerise their right to become irish nationals.

Won't be a popular view but I don't care, in times like thise we need to look after our own and let poland, the UK, france or where ever else look after their own.

Ireland is part of the EU, though, and giving the dole to EU members is part of that.

af_thefragile

Seaneh wrote: »

the dole is about 10600 a year (204 a week) and thats not too much IMHO, but I feel foreign nationals shouldn't be entitled to it unless they have lived here for hwoever long it takes to gain nationality and then excerise their right to become irish nationals.

Won't be a popular view but I don't care, in times like thise we need to look after our own and let poland, the UK, france or where ever else look after their own.

Non-EU people don't get **** from the government...

Xiney

Not entirely true.

Spouses of EU citizens are also entitled to social welfare so long as they pass the habitual residence test.

af_thefragile

Xiney wrote: »

Not entirely true.

Spouses of EU citizens are also entitled to social welfare so long as they pass the habitual residence test.

I doubt there are many people as such...

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

RonMexico wrote: »

This country doesn't need any more scroungers. You are lucky to be getting anything and if you put as much effort into finding a job as you do into scrounging for free handouts this country would be in a much better place.

Where are all these people comming from? Suggesting people on the dole should just "get a job"... I hope you lose yours, it is the only way you will wake up to reality

Seaneh

af_thefragile wrote: »

I doubt there are many people as such...

Well, Xiney is one, dunno if she is claiming or not, thats besides the point either way as she is married to an Irishman and entitled to it.

Seaneh

Xiney wrote: »

Ireland is part of the EU, though, and giving the dole to EU members is part of that.

It doesn't have to be though, why should it?

There are people who don't even live in this country who claim benifits!

Seaneh

af_thefragile wrote: »

Non-EU people don't get **** from the government...

thats not true, there are a few thousand living behind the department of education buildings in Athlone alone from anywhere as far appart as Iran and Zimbabwe living for free of irish tax payers money.

We need to sort out the genuine asylum applications from the bogus (which the vast majoriyt are) and send the ones who don't deserve it back home.

af_thefragile

^Guess, asylum seekers are a different category from immigrants...

Seaneh wrote: »

It doesn't have to be though, why should it?

There are people who don't even live in this country who claim benifits!

Cuz its the EU law. And we decided to join the EU so now we have to oblige to the EU laws...

And after the passing of the Lisbon Treaty, Ireland is just gonna be a county in the state of EUSSR.

But thats a completely different topic, so i'm not gonna go there here.

Seaneh

EU Law says that the borders have to be open and citizens have to have the right to work here, doesnt say they are entitled to the same welfare benifits as irish nationals, i stand to be corrected on this, im not an expert on EU law but I believe what I have just said to be true.

af_thefragile

Seaneh wrote: »

EU Law says that the borders have to be open and citizens have to have the right to work here, doesnt say they are entitled to the same welfare benifits as irish nationals, i stand to be corrected on this, im not an expert on EU law but I believe what I have just said to be true.

Is it?
I'm not too sure myself... guess i'll leave it to someone who knows the EU law better then.

But again, i think the government needs to make better use of the dole money.
As mentioned before. It should like set up some sorta industry and get all the people on the dole to work in it.
Or at the very least make them do some sort of community service like picking up rubbish, cleaning graffiti etc. before giving them off their dole money for free.

Terry

kraggy wrote: »

There's plenty to be done in this country to improve the way it looks. Enough for even 400,000.

I want a detailed layout of all that needs to be done and cannot be done by qualified professionals who should be paid a proper wage to do it.
Can you provide me with that?

Blackjack wrote: »

Should we leave things as they are so, as to do something for even a fraction of that number might be too much effort?.

I also want in-depth analysis of government employees, their daily tasks and where they are lacking in both funding and manpower.

I then want to know how you will implement the usage of unemployed people without infringing on the tasks already given to government/county council/local council employees.

Now, can anyone tell me what needs to be done, who will do it (without putting those currently employed to do such things out of work), who will be chosen to do what and how this can be accomplished properly without putting others out of work, which would just lead to current employees claiming the dole?

Both of you are suggesting this work for the dole thing, so surely you can answer these questions.

Seaneh wrote: »

Well, Xiney is one, dunno if she is claiming or not, thats besides the point either way as she is married to an Irishman and entitled to it.

I am sure that Xiney can speak for her/himself.

Seaneh wrote: »

It doesn't have to be though, why should it?

There are people who don't even live in this country who claim benifits!

I want the names, addresses and photos of these people and I want them now.
You must have access to this information, otherwise why would you claim to know such things?