Let's end this 'dole is too much' stuff

vibe666

i have lived in tenerife and whilst I was there, the rule was, that you were only entitled to benefits once you'd been working for x amount of time and had paid into the system. if you hadn't paid in, you didn't get back.

then it was capped in such a way that if after y amount of time of becoming unemployed and claiming benefits you had not found another job, the last lot of dough you had paid in was used to buy your ticket to send you back to whatever country you had come from.

since tenerife is part of spain and spain is part of the EU, would that not be a workable solution here?

seemed like a very fair way of doing things if you ask me and a good incentive to keep yourself off the dole at any cost.

af_thefragile

Terry wrote: »

I then want to know how you will implement the usage of unemployed people without infringing on the tasks already given to government/county council/local council employees.

Now, can anyone tell me what needs to be done, who will do it (without putting those currently employed to do such things out of work), who will be chosen to do what and how this can be accomplished properly without putting others out of work, which would just lead to current employees claiming the dole?

Both of you are suggesting this work for the dole thing, so surely you can answer these questions.

Assign a manager or the person who controls the Dole to form a little team of people who can overlook and manage these tasks to be given to these people on the Dole. The team could itself be comprised of say a bunch of the more educated people on the dole.

Then jobs can be invented for these guys which wouldn't hinder anyone else's employment. Cleaning graffiti off walls, picking rubbish off streets, helping old people on the street, looking after gardens, cleaning offices, clean up the liffey, or simply give them a task of building a monument or repair damaged structures or anything really.
If one has the time, they can think of hundreds of new jobs that could be given to these people that claim dole.

They could be given some basic training. But most of these jobs wouldn't really require much skill or training. Just some work and time.

The team could look over these guys. Take attendence and who doesn't show up gets money cut from his dole.

It just needs a management plan and a few guys to implement it. It would barely increase the state's expenses. Instead would help make the society better by making these Dole people do all those mundane jobs no one else would do.

Seaneh

af_thefragile wrote: »

Is it?
I'm not too sure myself... guess i'll leave it to someone who knows the EU law better then.

But again, i think the government needs to make better use of the dole money.
As mentioned before. It should like set up some sorta industry and get all the people on the dole to work in it.
Or at the very least make them do some sort of community service like picking up rubbish, cleaning graffiti etc. before giving them off their dole money for free.

Thats actually a great idea, would cut down on council overtime hours.

Anyone with the relevent qualifications should be put to work in government it/payroll/whatever departments too.

af_thefragile

Seaneh wrote: »

Thats actually a great idea, would cut down on council overtime hours.

Anyone with the relevent qualifications should be put to work in government it/payroll/whatever departments too.

Yup, set up a whole new industry, even if its something as mundane as weaving baskets, the more educated people could become the managers, organisers and such. While the less educated ones could do the more manual labour.

If the government is smart enough, it could also make some revenue out of it.
But i doubt our government is that smart. Or else this would have been happening right now!

Seaneh

Terry wrote: »

I want a detailed layout of all that needs to be done and cannot be done by qualified professionals who should be paid a proper wage to do it.
Can you provide me with that?



I also want in-depth analysis of government employees, their daily tasks and where they are lacking in both funding and manpower.

I then want to know how you will implement the usage of unemployed people without infringing on the tasks already given to government/county council/local council employees.

Now, can anyone tell me what needs to be done, who will do it (without putting those currently employed to do such things out of work), who will be chosen to do what and how this can be accomplished properly without putting others out of work, which would just lead to current employees claiming the dole?

Both of you are suggesting this work for the dole thing, so surely you can answer these questions.



I am sure that Xiney can speak for her/himself.



I want the names, addresses and photos of these people and I want them now.
You must have access to this information, otherwise why would you claim to know such things?

I'm sure she can too, I wasn't speaking for her at all, was pointing out that she knew what she was talking about.

Can't give you addresses or photos as they don't live in ireland and i dont know their addresses in Derry/liverpool/wales.

doolox

Why is sweeping the streets and cleaning singled out as "suitable" work for people unfortunate enough to lose their jobs?
Why are "environmental" projects chosen as "suitable" for the recipients of the dole?
Is it because nobody wants to do them. Or is it that their very public nature will somehow humiliate people into taking up any job that is available?
A few pointers:-
The dole is like a financial lifeboat, just as a liner must have lifeboats to keep their passengers alive in a hostile environment when accidents happen and the ship sinks, the dole keeps a person alive when financial or other accidents happen and they lose their jobs and can't readily get another.
The dole also acts as a base line for wages, don't think for a minute that people in employment will be left at the same wages if the dole decreases.Wages, unless heavily policed by minimum wage restrictions, will also fall in time if the overall bargaining position of the entire workforce, including those now on the dole, is weakened by decreasing the dole.
If employers can get away with it they will reduce the number of hours of work in a contract to what makes it just barely attractive to get people into work in order to save costs and have as many people in work for little money. There are several workplaces which hire only for the busy hours and tell people to go home when they are not needed by the hour. Waitresses and shop assistants work this way, often coming in for 3-4 hours in the morning, 15-20 hr a week to earn little more than the dole. The use of this type of hourly contract will increase if the dole is cut.
Cutting the rates of the dole is also out for many with family responsibilities and young children, unlike single people who may be able to cut back somewhat, married people with children are much more restricted to what can be cut, they often have made long term loan commitments, may have non-working spouses to support etc...
It is easy to look at the worst cases on the dole and generalise them as typical of the entire set of dole recipients but often people on the dole have worked long periods of time and earned the right to a bit of support in hard times. Because of the very open nature of our economic system and the difficulty government seem to have in planning and making provision to keep safe as many jobs as possible many people like me find ourselves doing FAS courses and the like hoping a suitable job will be made available in due course when the general environment improves. My experience of the FAS course has been mixed, while some participants are good and try their best to attend regularly, others treat it as a holiday camp and have to be watched all the time. Some trainers are very good but others sit around and relax, which must be very frustrating for the good ones. There does not seem to be a coherent system of jobs formation, forecasting or development of suitable courses and course material to keep up with the ever-changing demands of the competitive workplace most of us have to work in.
If I was in charge in FAS I would be encouraging the good trainers to mix with people in the workplace, get new and current ideas and keep the courses fresh. I would encourage trainees to pass on their latest work experiences, where relevant, so that the material can be made up to date for them.
I think there are good links already between management and government regarding development plans, economic forecasting etc. These need to be redesigned to face the new realities with the flight from construction and financial sectors to god knows what new sector which will have to absorb the 400,000 people on the dole.
Job postings should be analysed and new courses and content devised to match them, example being GMP and FDA regulations in pharma sector or HCCAPP in catering etc..or CAD courses although CAD is very time consuming and may take to long time to do. I have been told that in future FAS will break long courses down to shorter modules which will be given one at a time for 10-20 weeks or less, the person will have to go back on Jobseekers Bebefit or allowance and try and get a job while waiting on a waiting list for the next installment of training.
As I mentioned somewhere else before, it should be possible to set aside some publically funded work to allow apprentices to complete the work experience part of their courses (4 yr apprenticeships typically train for 6 months, work for 6 months on an alternating cycle so they need 2 years worth of work spread over 4 years and it must be of varying levels of difficulty to match the course material, so that only big firms can do a right job on this. Many apprentices fall foul of being let go in the middle of their apprenticeships and not being able to get a replacement job to finish their course. Other countries have the armed forces to handle this kind of training and they do an excellent job. It should be possible to do this here with some publically funded body so that the apprentices can be secure in their quest for a qualification. It would also make the training consistent in quality.
3rd level courses should come with a financial health warning, it should be possible for the government to rate the chances of getting a job from the various courses on offer and let prospective students know this in advance.
Transition year should be used to develop critical thinking skills in students so that the can better decide what they want to do. Too many jobs are lost because people have become " square pegs in round holes", they have chosen unsuitable jobs to do and many have ended up on the dole because of this. Others try and stick it out in hated work situations, often to the detriment of their workplace, their work colleagues and themselves. This manifests itself in problem drinking, drug taking, bullying, abuse and other abberant social practices so we all suffer.
If a high dole is the price we pay to allow people the breathing space to change jobs or get a new one in the face of sudden loss of the old, it is worthwhile.
As to working for the dole I say no. Training while being on the dole yes.

vibe666

Seaneh wrote: »

Thats actually a great idea, would cut down on council overtime hours.

Anyone with the relevent qualifications should be put to work in government it/payroll/whatever departments too.

yeah, and you could have a communal place for them to live and nice black and white stripy uniforms for them to work in so people could see that they were contributing to society. maybe even have little chains keeping them together so they don't try and slack off and guards with guns and dogs to keep them in line.

oh wait, i think someone already did that one.

Seaneh

vibe666 wrote: »

yeah, and you could have a communal place for them to live and nice black and white stripy uniforms for them to work in so people could see that they were contributing to society. maybe even have little chains keeping them together so they don't try and slack off and guards with guns and dogs to keep them in line.

oh wait, i think someone already did that one.

Yes, because being made to do 10 or so hours a week of communal service for €204 os exactly the same as being in a concentration camp...

Get off your high horse.

If I was on the dole I'd be happy to a few hours a week if it ment I had something to do!

i couldn't imagine how mind numbingly boring being long term unemployed would be!

If people were upskilling (FAS/VEC/etc) instead that would be equally as fair.

af_thefragile

doolox wrote: »

Why is sweeping the streets and cleaning singled out as "suitable" work for people unfortunate enough to lose their jobs?
Why are "environmental" projects chosen as "suitable" for the recipients of the dole?
Is it because nobody wants to do them. Or is it that their very public nature will somehow humiliate people into taking up any job that is available?
A few pointers:-

** wall of text**

As to working for the dole I say no. Training while being on the dole yes.

It is because it will serve the community and no its only as humiliative as one sees it. And also it is important to protect the environment and have a clean city.

Its less humiliative than sitting on your arse all day getting money for free from the government.

Also, not all jobs need to be labour jobs. They could even be administrative jobs. The people could act as assistants to people, even apprentices, helping out people in the government with their tasks.

C'mon, you're jobless. Mostly cuz you didn't do too well in school and college, and now yes, the economy is screwed and you're fell a victim to it. But you need to realise the situation and swallow some pride and get onto this work for the money you claim off the government.

Atleast feel some pride in the fact that you're serving the society and doing jobs no one else would do.

You can sit on your ass all day drinking beer and getting bored or you can go out there, do some community service work and then atleast feel better for contributing back to the society that is providing for you!

Also who's gonna pay for your training on the dole? The government's barely got enough money to pay for the basic dole itself.


All this not considering the concept that there shouldn't be a dole in the first place!

Darragh29

I've a mate on the dole who can afford to go out drinking two nights a week. He hasn't even got a CV done up and isn't looking for a job. None of my mates in jobs can afford (more due to them having to work harder than down to financial considerations), to go out drinking 2 nights a week.

Terry

af_thefragile wrote: »

Assign a manager or the person who controls the Dole to form a little team of people who can overlook and manage these tasks to be given to these people on the Dole. The team could itself be comprised of say a bunch of the more educated people on the dole.

First off, more educated does not mean better able to handle this sort of thing.

Then jobs can be invented for these guys which wouldn't hinder anyone else's employment. Cleaning graffiti off walls, picking rubbish off streets, helping old people on the street, looking after gardens, cleaning offices, clean up the liffey, or simply give them a task of building a monument or repair damaged structures or anything really.
If one has the time, they can think of hundreds of new jobs that could be given to these people that claim dole.

Everything you mentioned there is already assigned to county/town council employees.

You say that osmeone with time can come up with hundreds of new jobs. You have the time to post here and complain about people on the dole. Why not spend that time thinking up jobs for the unemployed (jobs which are not already tasked to others) and then make a valid argument?

They could be given some basic training. But most of these jobs wouldn't really require much skill or training. Just some work and time.

FÁS course?

The team could look over these guys. Take attendence and who doesn't show up gets money cut from his dole.

Fair enough if you can think of someting which is not currently done by others.
What you also need to remember is that if you give unemployed people the task of sweeping the streets or whatever, then the local council will lose government funding because the government will deem each council to be almost self sustaining
This will then lead to job losses on a county and town level and will then lead to higher unemployment and more people on these schemes until pretty much everyone is working for €204 a week.

Then you have the problem of mortgages not being paid and loans not being re-paid and the country plunging further into debt.
Then those who have lost their homes will be given council gouses and you get a further escalation of the welfare society that you are all so against (until your job is outsourced to India and you need the dole yourself (call 11890)) and it just keeps getting worse.

It just needs a management plan and a few guys to implement it. It would barely increase the state's expenses. Instead would help make the society better by making these Dole people do all those mundane jobs no one else would do.

Those damn dole people.
They should live underground with the Morlocks.

vibe666

Seaneh wrote: »

Get off your high horse.

dude, seriously. you do know this is after hours don't you? :rolleyes:

maybe i need to start using humour tags.

considering my previous comment was a suggestion to ship them all to the UK and pay the UK to look after them for half the price, i thought my tone might have carried through.

either way, no horses here, high or otherwise.

although there is a culchie in the corner with a funny looking cigarette and a vacant expression on his face.

Terry

Seaneh wrote: »

Can't give you addresses or photos as they don't live in ireland and i dont know their addresses in Derry/liverpool/wales.

But you know who they are, yes?
Is it beyond you to report them?
Are you incapable of picking up a phone and informing the relevant people?

Seaneh wrote: »

Yes, because being made to do 10 or so hours a week of communal service for €204 os exactly the same as being in a concentration camp...

Get off your high horse.

If I was on the dole I'd be happy to a few hours a week if it ment I had something to do!

i couldn't imagine how mind numbingly boring being long term unemployed would be!

If people were upskilling (FAS/VEC/etc) instead that would be equally as fair.

Grand. Just don't volunteer to teach English.

af_thefragile wrote: »

It is because it will serve the community and no its only as humiliative as one sees it. And also it is important to protect the environment and have a clean city.

Its less humiliative than sitting on your arse all day getting money for free from the government.

Also, not all jobs need to be labour jobs. They could even be administrative jobs. The people could act as assistants to people, even apprentices, helping out people in the government with their tasks.

C'mon, you're jobless. Mostly cuz you didn't do too well in school and college, and now yes, the economy is screwed and you're fell a victim to it. But you need to realise the situation and swallow some pride and get onto this work for the money you claim off the government.

Atleast feel some pride in the fact that you're serving the society and doing jobs no one else would do.

You can sit on your ass all day drinking beer and getting bored or you can go out there, do some community service work and then atleast feel better for contributing back to the society that is providing for you!

Also who's gonna pay for your training on the dole? The government's barely got enough money to pay for the basic dole itself.


All this not considering the concept that there shouldn't be a dole in the first place!

Clown college, was it?
Any decent college would not have allowed you to pass with such poor spelling and bad grammar.

As for the final sentence, you obviously still live at home with your mammy.
Anyone with a mortgage would not say that there should not be a welfare system.

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've a mate on the dole who can afford to go out drinking two nights a week. He hasn't even got a CV done up and isn't looking for a job. None of my mates in jobs can afford (more due to them having to work harder than down to financial considerations), to go out drinking 2 nights a week.

Fair play to you.
I've a mate like that too.
I've no point here. What's yours?

af_thefragile

Terry wrote: »

First off, more educated does not mean better able to handle this sort of thing.

Agreed. Okay, maybe something like a skills assessment to see who can be given what position.

Everything you mentioned there is already assigned to county/town council employees.

I know, but the council could always do with a few more. Apparently all the beaches in Fingal county are of a very poor standard. They could start from there!

You say that osmeone with time can come up with hundreds of new jobs. You have the time to post here and complain about people on the dole. Why not spend that time thinking up jobs for the unemployed (jobs which are not already tasked to others) and then make a valid argument?

I did mention a few in a matter of minutes. Give me a couple of days and i'll think of a good few more. Though what the point in me wasting me time and energy thinking of and figuring out new jobs that could be assigned to these dole seekers when no one is gonna implement it.
Though if you really wanna, then by this week end, i'll come up with atleast 5 new jobs that could be assigned and let you know about it!

FÁS course?

maybe. Yeah. If it helps them get a job or helps them serve the society.

Fair enough if you can think of someting which is not currently done by others.
What you also need to remember is that if you give unemployed people the task of sweeping the streets or whatever, then the local council will lose government funding because the government will deem each council to be almost self sustaining
This will then lead to job losses on a county and town level and will then lead to higher unemployment and more people on these schemes until pretty much everyone is working for €204 a week.

You're going wayy too far with your speculation there. I doubt any of that will happen. And i say county councils should be self sustaining anyway (if you ever read my libertarian posts in the "political theory" forum).

These are jobs that are sort of an extra add on to a society/city. Something that doesn't needs to be done but is being done cuz the people have nothing better to do and it'll be the city look prettier and nicer.

So no one will be losing any jobs here. Everyone can keep their existing jobs. Just create some extra new ones for these people who're getting paid for being unemployed.

Then you have the problem of mortgages not being paid and loans not being re-paid and the country plunging further into debt.
Then those who have lost their homes will be given council gouses and you get a further escalation of the welfare society that you are all so against (until your job is outsourced to India and you need the dole yourself (call 11890)) and it just keeps getting worse.

What has this got anything to do with working for you dole?...

Terry wrote: »

Clown college, was it?
Any decent college would not have allowed you to pass with such poor spelling and bad grammar.

As for the final sentence, you obviously still live at home with your mammy.
Anyone with a mortgage would not say that there should not be a welfare system.

Oh c'mon. Stop nitpicking.
And I'm in med school and so I don't need to worry much about jobs and such. But this is cuz of my decision to work hard at school to make it to this level. I can say i'm not anymore fortunate than you or any other person on the street. I just chose my options wisely.

Next, i'm not just for the abolishment of dole. I'm also against a lot of things the government is currently doing.
As I mentioned before, I believe in libertarianism/anarcho-capitalism. But i'm not gonna discuss this here cause this thread is not meant for that. There's a thread in the "political theory" forum where we can discuss this.

Seaneh

Terry wrote: »

Grand. Just don't volunteer to teach English.

OMG how witty, you pointed out grammar and spelling mistakes on an internet message board, I bet you feel important now!

The day I start taking boards.ie seriously enough to proof read what I post in AH is the day I realise that I need to get another hobby to keep me busy when it's too windy and wet to go for a 60km cycle.

Also, after re-reading your reply, you're one to talk.

Pot, kettle, etc.

Venom

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've a mate on the dole who can afford to go out drinking two nights a week. He hasn't even got a CV done up and isn't looking for a job. None of my mates in jobs can afford (more due to them having to work harder than down to financial considerations), to go out drinking 2 nights a week.

Your mates need to find better jobs then :rolleyes:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

af_thefragile wrote: »

Assign a manager or the person who controls the Dole to form a little team of people who can overlook and manage these tasks to be given to these people on the Dole. The team could itself be comprised of say a bunch of the more educated people on the dole.

Then jobs can be invented for these guys which wouldn't hinder anyone else's employment. Cleaning graffiti off walls, picking rubbish off streets, helping old people on the street, looking after gardens, cleaning offices, clean up the liffey, or simply give them a task of building a monument or repair damaged structures or anything really.
If one has the time, they can think of hundreds of new jobs that could be given to these people that claim dole.

They could be given some basic training. But most of these jobs wouldn't really require much skill or training. Just some work and time.

The team could look over these guys. Take attendence and who doesn't show up gets money cut from his dole.

It just needs a management plan and a few guys to implement it. It would barely increase the state's expenses. Instead would help make the society better by making these Dole people do all those mundane jobs no one else would do.

Nobody on social welfare is going to do that. Laws would have to change etc etc. We can't even do voluntary service without getting rode ffs. We will lose our payments if we do community work etc etc.

Seaneh wrote: »

If I was on the dole I'd be happy to a few hours a week if it ment I had something to do!

Funny... I would say a few hundred thousand people said that before they found themselves on social welfare. Why do anything when you get it all for nothing?

i couldn't imagine how mind numbingly boring being long term unemployed would be!

Extremely. Computer games help

If people were upskilling (FAS/VEC/etc) instead that would be equally as fair.

Fas is a joke. A complete and utter waste of money. You have to be unemployed for at least a year to be considered for their courses, then you have to be lucky enough to get into a course. With 450 thousand people unemployed, think of how difficult that is. I cannot wait until my year of being unemployed is up so I can avail of this "service" but I know in advance not to get my hopes up. Great intentions but a bad system.

Seaneh

Venom wrote: »

Your mates need to find better jobs then :rolleyes:

I know peopl who make over 200k a year who couldn't go out two nights in a row because of their jobs.

I know the CFO of a fortune 500 company who can barely go out to dinner once a month ffs, don't get many jobs better than that.

af_thefragile

Zaylee Rough Vanity wrote: »

Nobody on social welfare is going to do that. Laws would have to change etc etc. We can't even do voluntary service without getting rode ffs. We will lose our payments if we do community work etc etc.

Yup, i know that.
Thats why i'm against the way the government is running. I'm a libertarian and believe people should be free to set up their own organisations and voluntary stuff without the government getting involved into every aspect of our lives.

And I know this isn't gonna happen anytime soon. And so neither am i too keen on aspiring towards these ideals. Just waiting to graduate from college and find a nicer place to live!
New Zealand looks pretty...

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

af_thefragile wrote: »

Yup, i know that.
Thats why i'm against the way the government is running. I'm a libertarian and believe people should be free to set up their own organisations and voluntary stuff without the government getting involved into every aspect of our lives.

And I know this isn't gonna happen anytime soon. And so neither am i too keen on aspiring towards these ideals. Just waiting to graduate from college and find a nicer place to live!
New Zealand looks pretty...

Problem is, some "voluntary" organisations have been set up and will be set up with out being monitored. These organisations will exploit peoples ignorance and then become a pretty profitable business

af_thefragile

Zaylee Rough Vanity wrote: »

Problem is, some "voluntary" organisations have been set up and will be set up with out being monitored. These organisations will exploit peoples ignorance and then become a pretty profitable business

Not gonna get into all that here.
There's the "political theory" forum where i wreck my head over theories and debates on how government, economies and societies should run.

Seaneh

Zaylee Rough Vanity wrote: »

Nobody on social welfare is going to do that. Laws would have to change etc etc. We can't even do voluntary service without getting rode ffs. We will lose our payments if we do community work etc etc.

WTF?

Is this ture?

You can't volunteer while on the dole?

That's a ****ing joke!

Venom

Seaneh wrote: »

I know peopl who make over 200k a year who couldn't go out two nights in a row because of their jobs.

I know the CFO of a fortune 500 company who can barely go out to dinner once a month ffs, don't get many jobs better than that.

Bull****.

Seaneh

Venom wrote: »

Bull****.

Which?

I'm going to be working for the second in the next few weeks if all goes well.

Spudmonkey

I also suggested this a few weeks ago but was shot down! Was told that this was like a chain-gang scheme!

Don't see how it could hurt, it would weed out the useless b*stards from those who genuinely want to work and lost their job due to the economic conditions!

I would happily contribute something back to the community if I was un-employed!! I'd prefer not to be compared to those who use their dole for drink n fags!

It needs to be more that just a 20 euro difference though, like the Australian scheme. This gives just a measly 20 more to those working, there would need to be a bigger difference between those working and those scrounging!

Venom

Seaneh wrote: »

Which?

I'm going to be working for the second in the next few weeks if all goes well.

Im calling BS on the people in the two jobs you mentioned not being able to afford to go to the pub or for a meal out twice a week :rolleyes:

Seaneh

Venom wrote: »

Im calling BS on the people in the two jobs you mentioned not being able to afford to go to the pub or for a meal out twice a week :rolleyes:

I didnt say they couldnt afford money wise, neither did the person you quoted saying "they need to get a better job".

They couldn't do it because they don't have the time between work and family responsabilities, the CFO I mentioned also has charitable works that take up an insane ammount of his time.

Venom

Seaneh wrote: »

I didnt say they couldnt afford money wise, neither did the person you quoted saying "they need to get a better job".

They couldn't do it because they don't have the time between work and family responsabilities, the CFO I mentioned also has charitable works that take up an insane ammount of his time.

The post I quoted (here again for ya bub)

"Originally Posted by Darragh29
I've a mate on the dole who can afford to go out drinking two nights a week. He hasn't even got a CV done up and isn't looking for a job. None of my mates in jobs can afford (more due to them having to work harder than down to financial considerations), to go out drinking 2 nights a week."

Maybe you missed the "None of my mates in jobs can afford (more due to them having to work harder than down to financial considerations), to go out drinking 2 nights a week." part of the post I responded to bub :rolleyes:

Seaneh

Can you not read what's written in the brackets or something? You are allowed to ya know, it's not like a sekrit just because it's inside brackets!

Terry

Seaneh wrote: »

OMG how witty, you pointed out grammar and spelling mistakes on an internet message board, I bet you feel important now!

The day I start taking boards.ie seriously enough to proof read what I post in AH is the day I realise that I need to get another hobby to keep me busy when it's too windy and wet to go for a 60km cycle.

Also, after re-reading your reply, you're one to talk.

Pot, kettle, etc.

I'm awesome.
BTW, if you cycle close to my land, then I'm going to sue you.
Not because you have done anything wrong. Just because I can.
I might have some dole workers doing work on my house and if they get injured by a cyclist, then I'll have to sue that cyclist because the government wont pay for insurance.
Or maybe they will if you say that's it's ok for dole workers to have their insurance paid for by the government.

After all, you don't want to accidently crash into an uninsured government emplyee 55K into your journey.