Let's end this 'dole is too much' stuff

Overheal

Seaneh wrote: »

WTF?

Is this ture?

You can't volunteer while on the dole?

That's a ****ing joke!

So thats why the ISPCA is in a state. huh.

r3nu4l

Confab wrote: »

...with a simple chart from the OECD.



Image tags... bah humbug.

A little something for you regarding Luxembourg unemployment benefit...
http://www.justlanded.com/english/Luxembourg/Luxembourg-Guide/Jobs/Unemployment-Benefit

Normal unemployment benefit is 85 per cent of your gross salary in the three months immediately preceding unemployment if you have dependants, or 80 per cent if you don’t. If your spouse earns more than a certain amount, your benefit is reduced accordingly. The maximum duration for unemployment benefit is 365 days in a 24 month period (to encourage you to find part-time work), but this can be extended by up to 182 days, depending on a number of factors related to your expected chance of finding a job, e.g. your age, profession and family situation. Those over the age of 50 can further extend the benefit period by up to 12 months if they have a certain number of credits toward a pension plan.

So you only get 12 months dole in 2 years, therefore your fiugre for luxembourg in that graph should be halved to show the true amount of dole

Also, that figure in your graph is further inflated because it takes into account that these people were once employed and therefore earn 85% of their gross salary on the dole for 12 months out of every 24 months. The dole facility for long-term unemployed in Lux is far lower. Also, every worker in Lux pays an unemployment insurance tax from their wages.

The devil is in the detail my friend, not some graph that leaves you ignorant to the facts!

JD1763

Give me back the thousands I've paid in PRSI and I'll consider it.

994

RonMexico wrote: »

This country doesn't need any more scroungers. You are lucky to be getting anything and if you put as much effort into finding a job as you do into scrounging for free handouts this country would be in a much better place.

Ugh. Disgusting. The Irish will always stab each other in the back rather than work together. He's not "lucky to be getting anything" and they're not "free handouts", the unemployed have paid years of PRSI.

asdasd

I paid for my dole with my PRSI contributions. I pay VAT, duties and other taxes. That's not scrounging. Do I need to explain this more simply? You need to differentiate between city centre druggies and honest people who have paid plenty for their dole entitlement.

Totally agree with this. What the original post does not point out is that unemplyment in Ireland is the same for everyone - whether you pay in or not - unemployment in many European countries is a percentage of your income when you were last employed, hence pushing the average much higher.

r3nu4l made that point as well. The real nonsense here is that someone who has paid in gets the same as someone who hasn't.

vibe666

was out to get milk earlier (working from home today due to flu, not unemployed. ) and saw the front of one of the papers that lenihan says he's going to 'slash' dole payments so i guess we can all stop worrying (well, unless you're currently on the dole).

however much the dole is, it should not be enough that it's a viable option for fit, healthy people INSTEAD of going out to work.

if you're out of work more than 6 months and you are fit and healthy and trying to find work then you should be out doing a FAS course making yourself a better prospect for potential employers and if you're not the government should be making sure you do by reducing your payments until you do.

General Zod

Let's end "dole" threads.

asdasd

This country doesn't need any more scroungers. You are lucky to be getting anything and if you put as much effort into finding a job as you do into scrounging for free handouts this country would be in a much better place.

This idiotic post is actually caused by the fact that we have a one-size-fit-all dole system.

So there are scroungers yes. That would be the never paid in, never worked class. A small proportion of the present unemployed.

To accuse someone who has worked, and paid tax and Pay Related Social Insurance of being a scrounger is like accusing a pensioner who paid in to his pension all his life ( private or public) of being a scrounger. Or accusing someone who gets private insurance a scrounger. You can actually get private income and mortgage insurance. Are people who pay in, and then take out, scroungers?

It is stupid, ignorant, and utterly divorced from reality.

CiaranC

asdasd wrote: »

It is stupid, ignorant, and utterly divorced from reality.

You must be new here

Deller

CiaranC wrote: »

You must be new here

:pac:

javaboy

Deller wrote: »

:pac:

Casey casey casey. What am I going to do with you? This can't go on indefinitely. Me banning you. You reregistering. Me banning you. You reregistering. There has to be more to life than this. Dontcha think?

delllat

the unemplpoyed dont want to work for their dole though
,I know a few doleheads and they have very comfortable lives, can go to the gym ,swimming pool,sauna ,cinema,shopping ,library or just relax in the park with a can of beer and a spliff

therexs no way theyre going to clean graffiti instead of that

if you were getting 300+ a week for doing that would you complain ?

vibe666

delllat wrote: »

the unemplpoyed dont want to work for their dole though

they will if they don't have a choice.

give them a basic amount for sitting on their hole watching jeremy kyle and drinking beer all day but offer them an incentive of more money if they go out and work for it doing all the (unskilled) things the government needs doing that it hasn't got the extra cash to pay full time people for.

there's also no reason why the govt. couldn't offer more incentives to dole claimers to skill up with FAS courses to earn even more in skilled roles the government needs to fill, then look, what do you know it, they're in a job.

Spudmonkey

vibe666 wrote: »

they will if they don't have a choice.

give them a basic amount for sitting on their hole watching jeremy kyle and drinking beer all day but offer them an incentive of more money if they go out and work for it doing all the (unskilled) things the government needs doing that it hasn't got the extra cash to pay full time people for.

there's also no reason why the govt. couldn't offer more incentives to dole claimers to skill up with FAS courses to earn even more in skilled roles the government needs to fill, then look, what do you know it, they're in a job.

Finally a post making a bit of sense. The problem with the system at the moment is there is no incentive to go out in work. You take peoples money away from them it will force them to do this unskilled labour or go out and look for other jobs. (I'm aiming this at those who sit on their h*les all day, before I get lambasted)

Besides there are loads of jobs that could be done to help improve the community!!

vibe666

i've nothing against the dole system at all, other than how it's run. it's a useful tool to help people who have lost their jobs survuve whilst they get back on their feet and back to work.

my problem is people taking the mickey out of it and treating it as an alternative to working for a living.

i almost lost my job a little while ago to cutbacks, but thankfully enough important people in my work felt i was worth fighting for and after a lot of grovelling and a week off in limbo I was allowed to stay on (I'm a contractor, not a permanent employee, but I've been in the same role for 5 years now and have moved from almost the bottom to almost the top of my field in that time, so I'm obviously doing something right) so I may well have been part of the dole system if that hadn't worked out and I'm grateful it's there for people who need it, but anyone who thinks they are entitled to sit on their hole whilst the rest of us work and pay into the system needs a good kick in it to wake them up.

it should be a fall-back position for people in need, not a lifestyle choice for people too lazy to make their own way in the world.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Seaneh wrote: »

WTF?

Is this ture?

You can't volunteer while on the dole?

That's a ****ing joke!

Yea it is true. They say that you are not eligible for work if you are volunteering... the retards that they are. What logic is in that statement?

asdasd wrote: »

Totally agree with this. What the original post does not point out is that unemplyment in Ireland is the same for everyone

Contrary to popular belief, it is not the same for everyone.

whether you pay in or not

Wrong.

delllat wrote: »

the unemplpoyed dont want to work for their dole though
,I know a few doleheads and they have very comfortable lives, can go to the gym ,swimming pool,sauna ,cinema,shopping ,library or just relax in the park with a can of beer and a spliff

OMFG someone on the dole has a life? Call the fcuking cops, they must be drug dealers or pimps. Maybe they deal in little children.

Wake up would ya? Everyone is entitled to have a life, working or on social.

therexs no way theyre going to clean graffiti instead of that

if you were getting 300+ a week for doing that would you complain ?[/QUOTE]

300+ a week? WTF are you talking about? You are not talking about Ireland anyway...

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Finally a post making a bit of sense. The problem with the system at the moment is there is no incentive to go out in work. You take peoples money away from them it will force them to do this unskilled labour or go out and look for other jobs. (I'm aiming this at those who sit on their h*les all day, before I get lambasted)

Besides there are loads of jobs that could be done to help improve the community!!

Yea, all those unskilled jobs out there. There's millions of them, everywhere...

Some people really are that oblivious to current affairs, aren't they...?

Venom

A question for the give them nothing/make they earn their dole posters in this thread..........

Wont cutting off or making certain elements work for their dole not just makes the streets a hell of a lot more unsafe?

Also if such idea's were put into practice do you really think the money saved would really be used to improve the infrastructure of the country such as road's,healthcare and prisions?

Spudmonkey

Venom wrote: »

A question for the give them nothing/make they earn their dole posters in this thread..........

Wont cutting off or making certain elements work for their dole not just makes the streets a hell of a lot more unsafe?

Also if such idea's were put into practice do you really think the money saved would really be used to improve the infrastructure of the country such as road's,healthcare and prisions?

Decent people won't attack people, if someone does that, it was in their nature anyway!

Also prisons is another place where money could be saved, I always had the impression that prison was supposed to be a bad place to go, (bread and water, breaking stones and the like), from what I hear they probably eat better than a lot of the population!

melekalikimaka

Seaneh wrote: »

Thats actually a great idea, would cut down on council overtime hours.

Anyone with the relevent qualifications should be put to work in government it/payroll/whatever departments too.

sounds like the current civil service tbh, thats basically dole money... bunch of layabouts. a good shake up of the civil service, as in looking at man power vs work needed to be done will drop another few thousand into unemployment me thinks

Blackjack

Terry wrote: »

I want I want I want
Both of you are suggesting this work for the dole thing, so surely you can answer these questions.

You're not going to get this from me - it was a suggestion. You seem to think the current system is the best we can have - is this the case?.

Do you think people who have no interest in working and are contented drawing the dole should continue to receive 204 euros a week, while others are doing their best?.

Seriously - people could contribute a whole load by cleaning up their community and getting rewarded for it not just financially.

homerjay2005

aint read all the posts so forgive me if this was already mentioned.

dole should be means tested.
1 - you are fit and able to work, but not bother your ass to work, then it should decrease, say 10 euro a week, then 20 euro a week after 3 months, 30 after 6 months etc. anybody on this type of dole should then do a back to work scheme. say, learn the basics of a trade/skill, 5 hours a week, doing some sort of community service. you dont turn up, you dont get paid.

2 - if you have been paying taxes and are made redundant, then you should start higher, relative to the money saved from point 1.

3 - people unable to work, disability etc, should havev their dole increased.

Spudmonkey

homerjay2005 wrote: »

1 - you are fit and able to work, but not bother your ass to work, then it should decrease, say 10 euro a week, then 20 euro a week after 3 months, 30 after 6 months etc. anybody on this type of dole should then do a back to work scheme. say, learn the basics of a trade/skill, 5 hours a week, doing some sort of community service. you dont turn up, you dont get paid.

More importantly, those who turn down good jobs because the are on the minimum wage and think they can get more on the dole should have their welfare halved or more!

Lockstep

After steadily handing out CVs, I got a job from an application I sent out in April.
Slightly above minimum wage.

I was walking by the Galway Dole office one morning and was staggered by the queue of people outside. People in suits, elderly folk, farmers etc. I was just lucky enough that I live with my parents so wasn't compelled to sign on.


A couple of good ideas might be "earn to learn" schemes where you recieve welfare while retraining.
Or providing graduates with the dole while they undertake internships given how important experience is.

Anyone notice how many of those who claim the dole should be cut are those saying "if I were unemployed.../if I was on the dole..."

Spudmonkey

Its true, its easy to spot those which ever side of the fence. But those who are employed don't agree with making life difficult for those genuinely in need. Just weed out and penalise the scam artists!

ShooterSF

I'll say one positive for the Irish dole system from reading this thread. That all that lose their jobs are treated equally. The system in France and Luxembourg where the more needy get less when let go than the upper classes is sickening.
I do like the idea of a learn to earn scheme but unfortunately it's not economically viable right now.
I have said my piece on work for your dole and stand by that in theory when not examined deeply it looks great but would be one huge public sector nightmare especially in our modern sue anything that moves culture. People would need health and safety training, insurance, a safe workplace etc.

dotsman

ShooterSF wrote: »

I'll say one positive for the Irish dole system from reading this thread. That all that lose their jobs are treated equally. The system in France and Luxembourg where the more needy get less when let go than the upper classes is sickening.

I can't disagree with this any more. Just another socialist scam inflicted upon the people. Those who contribute most should benefit most. In the current system, someone who works their butt off for 30 years, had a good job, and made financial commitments (mortgage/car loans/lifestyle) loses their job and gets the same as some anto who's living at home and just drinking his €200 a week.

That is wrong on so many levels.

Degsy

Confab wrote: »

There is no such thing as free money.

There is if you're on the dole!

delllat

dotsman wrote: »

I can't disagree with this any more. Just another socialist scam inflicted upon the people. Those who contribute most should benefit most. In the current system, someone who works their butt off for 30 years, had a good job, and made financial commitments (mortgage/car loans/lifestyle) loses their job and gets the same as some anto who's living at home and just drinking his €200 a week.

That is wrong on so many levels.

whats wrong with it?

asdasd

The sunday business post happened to ask a few mobile service providers why they don't offer porn services, and couldn't get a straight answer.

What's wrong with it is this: the guy who paid in all is life is morally owed more money than the guy who contributed nothing.

Wasnt that easy to understand?

delllat

asdasd wrote: »

What's wrong with it is this: the guy who paid in all is life is morally owed more money than the guy who contributed nothing.

Wasnt that easy to understand?

he isnt ,they both have bills to pay :rolleyes: