Should the US Nuke North Korea?

Overheal

China does have a checkered scorecard these days don't they. But yes, their trade relations with DPRK give them a strong position from which to pressure the Koreans into backing down.

Keith186

wes wrote: »

Wait, you are actually saying they should nuke China? Thats the kinda of crazy, I would expect from Ol'Kim Jong.

Well what I said it printed so you could just read over it which could confirm I didn't say they should nuke China. You gotta think down the line though. If I were China when I felt I could take over I'd manipulate a war of someone vs USA then join in afterwards (look at how long Iraq/Afghanistan is going on and see how it has drained the US). I'm not talking in the next 10 years or so but I think they have a game plan for the next 30 years or so to slowly become the biggest financial power then use war if needed. Will be funny seeing the Chinese beat us at our own game called Capitalism. Suppose if we had the same standards and worked like dogs, eat **** and poisoned our babies with milk posion it might be a level playing field at the end of the day.

marcsignal

China could put pressure on them from a completely different angle also. They've just gotten over a huge earthquake, and i'm sure they wouldn't want to risk another. They could pressure NK with mildly aggressive diplomatic tactics to sign a test ban, on the grounds that underground nuclear detonations, could affect the stability of the fault lines in the region. From a NK perspective, at least it wouldn't sound like the US was just dictating to them for military reasons.

b12mearse

that makes alot of sense.
to think that China is an honest broker>makes no sense.

b12mearse

am i making any sense when i forget to quote>no sense

Keith186

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not in the Military. There are a few posters here who are and they could break this down even better. But its not just a case of deciding to nuke them next tuesday. Lets ignore for a moment the devastating effects of nuclear fallout from dozens and/or hundreds of megatons worth of nuclear fuel. You're still talking about killing millions of mostly-brainwashed yet perfectly-innocent civilians. Whats more, you aren't even guaranteeing an overthrow of the regime with such a strike. The North Koreans are master tunnel builders by all accounts. Im sure theres a hundred other reasons why its a terrible idea, but those two stick out the most. Oh, and the open invitation to start WWIII. Thats always a kicker.
You mean will Japan and South Korea hold up to North Korea? I would think so. I would be very surprised if there wasn't already a very elaborate and heavilly modernised Anti Missile system along the DMZ which would at least include the Patriot Defense System if not our new-fangled lasers which Im geekishly fond of hearing about. I'm open to heavy correction but it seems to me like the threat of a successful nuclear missile strike from NK is close to zero. As for conventional warfare, NTM made a very strong case in the military forum about it, and from that I highly favor the UN's odds against a DPRK attack.



Im not sure they have the economy to support being a real superpower. Not to long ago (was it '07?) they were negotiating for UN food relief aid to halt their nuclear proliferation. These nukes are more bargaining chips than true strategic assets, imo.

As for China being their ally its true they have healthy trade relations but if im to beleve the media China has always criticized DPRKs nuclear program and at the moment are pushing for a peaceful solution. Fortunate thing that.

OK you make very valid points and I'm not saying WWIII should be started, infact it should be avoided at all costs but not at the cost of DPKR nuking someone (and in reality is it just a matter of time for WWIII? I'd like to think not but I'm a realist). If it is to go that far they should be stopped by all means including nuking. And as b12mearse said 'if' and I'm thinking 'probably' DPKR are pawns in a bigger picture and are almost being supported by China which is suggested by the lack of sanctions or agreement of sanctions by China then you have to consider the possibilities. DPKR will start it and China will finish it.

By the way I was saying China were going to be the super power, I presume you are referring to N Korea re. food supplies as a trade off for lack of nuclear ambition.

China could be supplying them quietly or not at all but do you think Kim Jong cares too much about that anyway, look at his country now. They could easily do a China on it and make more money from exporting cheap goods with poor working conditions and good relations and probably even joint Olympics in 2050 (but I'm a dreamer here!). DPKR need a clean slate (v. unlikely) or need promise of aid for not developing nuclear weapons (which they obviously aren't up for given recent events) or they need China feeding them their master plan and keeping them sweet with the promise that it's all good or will be all good, just egging them on, and they'll ready to step in. If it all works the west will be the east and the east will be the west but more authoritarian than us would be my belief anyway. These dictators have longer terms goals than Fianna Fail, Democrats and Labour because they know they don't face a general election any time soon...

I'm off to bed now anyway, go on the Barca!!:D

Riddle101

I hear a lot of talk of China being involved and being a part of a grand scheme or something, so I just have this to say. I'm sure the Americans have also considered the possibility that China might be involved and have counter measures for whatever might happen if China were to be involved. I mean I seriously doubt that China's lack of involvement at the moment hasn't gone unnoticed, and that the Americans and UN have considered that China might be up to something.

In saying that I don't think China are involved. I don't know but maybe the reason China aren't doing anything is because they want to play the backseat passanger and just watch how things fold out. China aren't nessesary a threat in terms of going to war, because let's face it. China are not really war mongers to say the least. Of course i'm not saying they shouldn't be ignored either. But China have been rather peaceful, and I would say the odds of China being involved are proberly 50/50.

andrew

This article and this article explain the North Korea situation pretty well. The second one is shorter.

In short, NK is trying to provoke America into interfering, because China is propping them up and has it's eyes on their juicy coastline and economic resources. At least,Ii think thats what the gist of it was.

b12mearse

china will not be directly involved in any war with the u.s.
the usa will be very over-streched if it gets involved in a war with north korea. consider its commitments in trashghanistan, iraq and possibly iran. see israel iran relations.
now consider chinas interests in Taiwan.

Manic Moran

I never did answer the OP.

Nuking the place could be seen to be a bit excessive. Don't see anything much wrong with slapping them around a bit, though.

NTM

Rented Mule

So North Korea is the sole (not Soeul) United States responsibiility to deal with ?

walshb

TheZohan wrote: »

They're not going to hurt you.

Yeah, but what about our 'brothers' in Seoul?

Anyway, if NK attempt to attack the South, they will be obliterated.
It would be a real foolish move.

I have to say, the North really do need to get
their priorities right. What are they playing at here.
It's the 21st century and they are preoccupied with
weapons? And weapons that the U.S. would consider
primitive

I say, quit the rackets NK and go straight!
You will get nowhere with this crap!

Rented Mule

These Third World countires going nook-ya-ler (that one's of Dubya) are doing this for one reason. Extortion.

They are going to force different countires around the word into a situation where they have to be appeased or dealt with. The United Nations prefer to appease them moreso than anything else.

You'll see/are seeing many of the oil rich Middle Eastern countries doing the exact same thing. Especially now that they realise that their oil reserves aren't going to last forever, and the date trade ain't what it used to be.

This is going to be the status quo for the 21st Century.

nice1franko

shamblertine wrote: »

I'm sick of living in fear of those bastards, we got enough on our plate with the whole recession business without these little fcukers threatening us constantly. I say the US should Nuke them, preferably their whole country and send them back to the fcuking stone age, or at least Nuke their nuclear facilities. Don't fcuk around with a ground invasion or sanctions or any of that bollocks, they have to be nuked. That'll teach them that they're useless, worthless cnuts who should just kill themselves if they manage to survive the nuclear fallout. The US could crush them like ants if they like, and I think they have a responsibility to do so.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=88763

twinytwo

shamblertine wrote: »

I'm sick of living in fear of those bastards, we got enough on our plate with the whole recession business without these little fcukers threatening us constantly. I say the US should Nuke them, preferably their whole country and send them back to the fcuking stone age, or at least Nuke their nuclear facilities. Don't fcuk around with a ground invasion or sanctions or any of that bollocks, they have to be nuked. That'll teach them that they're useless, worthless cnuts who should just kill themselves if they manage to survive the nuclear fallout. The US could crush them like ants if they like, and I think they have a responsibility to do so.

for such a bitter person you dont no much about NK.... they do pratically live in a stone age and the people think their leader is a god... sad state of affairs to be in. An what makes you think you are better than them??.. just because u live in a world that is a millions times better than theirs.

gosplan

shamblertine wrote: »

I'm sick of living in fear of those bastards, we got enough on our plate with the whole recession business without these little fcukers threatening us constantly. I say the US should Nuke them, preferably their whole country and send them back to the fcuking stone age, or at least Nuke their nuclear facilities. Don't fcuk around with a ground invasion or sanctions or any of that bollocks, they have to be nuked. That'll teach them that they're useless, worthless cnuts who should just kill themselves if they manage to survive the nuclear fallout. The US could crush them like ants if they like, and I think they have a responsibility to do so.

Stop watching news channels.

North Korea openly talking about its nuclear arsenal is a sign of weakness, not a sign of strength.

And lol, 'preferably their own whole country'. All, 25 million or so then? Grow up.

twinytwo

b12mearse wrote: »

north korea really needs its ass kicked. i hate north korea. they are a threat to democracy and freedom in this world. we will have one less country to worry about once kim jong whatever his name is, is lined up against the wall and shot and his hole regime aswel. :mad:

I lol'd at that post.... Have you been to Nk or know anyone from there?.. chances are u dont so how can you hate someone or something u have never experienced.... Also you must realise that there is no such word as "freedom" anymore just the idea of it... oh and one last point Democracy is a joke... as witnessed here.. in the eu and america

WillieCocker

Change the poll to "Should N.Korea Nuke the U.S.?"
Might be a different result.

General Zod

If anyone remembers the old Gauntlet arcade game:


North Korea needs food badly.

RedPlanet

b12mearse wrote: »

north koreas government will not stand the test of time. dictatorships like that never last. and when that government is toppled the truth will come out about what has been happening in that country just like what happened in the ussr and nazi germany.
but why should we care its not happening in ireland right?

Right, so now we should nuke them because we care about them so much. :rolleyes:

toiletduck

Riddle101 wrote: »

I think it's good North Korea have Nukes because it keeps the status quo in check. With N.K having nukes, the odds of a nuclear war are actually slim because people will be afraid to launch nukes in fear of retalitation. Thus creating a stale mate, with neither side winning. Of course I'm just guessing and it isn't a fact but I still believe N.K having nukes will keep the status quo in order.

M.A.D. :eek:

Deller

shamblertine wrote: »

I'm sick of living in fear of those bastards, we got enough on our plate with the whole recession business without these little fcukers threatening us constantly. I say the US should Nuke them, preferably their whole country and send them back to the fcuking stone age, or at least Nuke their nuclear facilities. Don't fcuk around with a ground invasion or sanctions or any of that bollocks, they have to be nuked. That'll teach them that they're useless, worthless cnuts who should just kill themselves if they manage to survive the nuclear fallout. The US could crush them like ants if they like, and I think they have a responsibility to do so.

:rolleyes:

I think you need to stop watching FOX news.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05272009.html

Quote from link

"The military/security complex that rules America, together with the Israel Lobby and the financial banksters, needs a long list of dangerous enemies to keep the taxpayers’ money flowing into its coffers."

wes

Keith186 wrote: »

Well what I said it printed so you could just read over it which could confirm I didn't say they should nuke China.

Well, what was written was pretty vauge at least to me and its why I asked the question, as I wasn't sure that was what your were saying.

Keith186 wrote: »

You gotta think down the line though. If I were China when I felt I could take over I'd manipulate a war of someone vs USA then join in afterwards (look at how long Iraq/Afghanistan is going on and see how it has drained the US). I'm not talking in the next 10 years or so but I think they have a game plan for the next 30 years or so to slowly become the biggest financial power then use war if needed. Will be funny seeing the Chinese beat us at our own game called Capitalism. Suppose if we had the same standards and worked like dogs, eat **** and poisoned our babies with milk posion it might be a level playing field at the end of the day.

Well, more power to them then. Isn't that just a variation on pretty much everyone game plan? To become strong and powerful?

andrew

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, but what about our 'brothers' in Seoul?

Anyway, if NK attempt to attack the South, they will be obliterated.
It would be a real foolish move.

There was a pretty interesting scenario, I think it was in one of the articles i posted earlier. Anyways, it described NK opening up a 5 minute artillary barrage on Seoul, and then just stopping. NK have ****load of artillery pointed at Seoul, so this'd likely cause a lot of damage. But then what'd happen?
The South Koreans and the Chinese don't want to invade or destabilise the area, because that'd mean millions of refugees coming their way, not to mention lots of death from any war. If the place was nuked, either you're going to create an epic humanitarian crisis on top of their epic humanitarian crisis, or perhaps Kim would decide to screw it and try to invade the south.
He wouldn't suceed, but he could kill a lot of people in doing so. America can't do anything without South Korean approval, and theres a bit of anti-american sentiment in the South at the moment, and they're overstretched, and Kim wants to get America involved because China is breathing down his neck and America know it. But NK are in a powerfulish position - nobody wants to provoke them to do something like that. Least of all the americans. Imagine america going and doing something, only to have NK retaliate with something like that. It'd all be america's fault, and the whole world would be saying 'what next america?' and they'd really have no good options.

So in short, it's in noone's interest to do anything but wait for NK to organically disintegrate, and then move in. Unless NK were to start nuking things or something. And even then, I'm assuming sugrical strikes eliminating key stuff would be preferable to being like 'Screw it, land invasion!'

Riddle101

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, but what about our 'brothers' in Seoul?

Anyway, if NK attempt to attack the South, they will be obliterated.
It would be a real foolish move.

I have to say, the North really do need to get
their priorities right. What are they playing at here.
It's the 21st century and they are preoccupied with
weapons? And weapons that the U.S. would consider
primitive

I say, quit the rackets NK and go straight!
You will get nowhere with this crap!

The thing is though. You can't just expect N.K to think the same as you. Remember Asia is an entirely different place to Europe. Their morals and values and not like ours. We like to pride ourselves on Celtic Pride sometimes, well Asian pride is a lot more intense. What I mean is, N.Koreans are too proud to admit their faults. They refuse to acknowledge the fact that USA has arguably the storngest army in the world and would destroy them if they wanted to. Therefore they aren't afraid to speak out against America or anyone, that's why they're acting the way they do.

Also as far as weapons go, I would say N.K are as modern as Britian in terms of weaonary. And I'm sure China would supply N.K with weapons as well.

Degsy

Nukes are soo 1950's.
Antimatter devices,thats where its at!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_weapon

BraziliaNZ

So if we nuke NK we need to nuke their allies China too. And Russia too probably. Because either of those might retaliate. Maybe it's worth just getting it out of the way and nuking China, NK, and Russia, thus reducing the world's population enough to ease our consciences about global warming and the poor polar bears. Russia is very mineral rich so we can use those to enrich our lives. But without China who will make our ipods etc? Move those jobs to Africa, we all love blacks what with Obama and Bob Marley and all, there aren't really any popular asians. So yeah, i'm for nuking those 3 countries.

Degsy

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

So if we nuke NK we need to nuke their allies China too. And Russia too probably. Because either of those might retaliate. Maybe it's worth just getting it out of the way and nuking China, NK, and Russia, thus reducing the world's population enough to ease our consciences about global warming and the poor polar bears. Russia is very mineral rich so we can use those to enrich our lives. But without China who will make our ipods etc? Move those jobs to Africa, we all love blacks what with Obama and Bob Marley and all, there aren't really any popular asians. So yeah, i'm for nuking those 3 countries.

So boards.ie posseses a nuclear arsenal now?

BraziliaNZ

Degsy wrote: »

So boards.ie posseses a nuclear arsenal now?

if it boiled down to it, western europe and USA would be on the same side during a world war, don't you think? We're hardly going to side with the asians are we?

Devious

Nuke the site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.