An organisation for start-ups, and also the South Dublin County Enterprise Board.

Not very encouraging stuff in fairness, I hope it's slightly better by the time I get home in September although I just need support - not finance (at the moment anyway).

7daze

I know 2 people on a enterprise platform programe in the North East who successfully applied for Enterprise Ireland CORD funding. About 3 weeks after they were notified that they would get the award it was withdrawn for budget reasons.

Darragh29

patftrears wrote: »

or maybe they would try harder and not let one setback with the enterprise boards make them bitter.

300k of cord funding was awarded this week to the current batch of people on the hothouse.
off hand know of 200+k awarded to companies for r&d over the past few months
know 2 guys who got 3millon between them off vcs and ei and business innovation centre fund this year

this is stuff I know personally, not doubt there's lots more.

Like I said the money and support is out there go get it

I accept your point, but this thread is about the CEB's. I don't know anything about Hothouse or what they do... As I said previously, I resolved this issue by transferring funds from my personal account into my business account, so there is no issue here with me being "put off" as you suggest by what I witnessed in the CEB office in Tallaght last week. My point is that if these boards are not fulfilling the function that they were set up to do, then save us all the expense associated with keeping them open!

I have a major issue with politicians stating that this government has a strategy for the creation of employment, but at the very same time, the local CEB's appear to be completely broke and are not even making a secret of this...

I'm certainly not saying that money should be thrown at people but I do think that any person who thinks they can start up a business at the moment should be given a proper hearing and if they meet certain criteria and are prepared to invest their own money, then they should be given some support.

When I say they should be given a hearing, I mean they should be taken into a board room and put through a comprehensive interview process and first of all encouraged to debate their idea down to the last detail.

Wolff

I was always under the impression it was only manufacturing companies that got funding from the SCEB - like everything else manufacturing gets all the breaks

A quick visit to the website confirms this..

Did you not check this out beforehand ?

Angst

My name is Loman O’Byrne and I am the CEO of South Dublin County Enterprise Board, which was the CEB that Darragh came to for assistance at the start of this thread. I have just been made aware of the thread by a colleague.

Darragh, I applaud your enterprise. I can’t argue with much of what you say but there are a number of issues that should be clarified in the interests of accuracy.

Firstly, our top priority is to assist manufacturing AND “internationally traded services”. Most ‘technology’ businesses are considered to be ITS. So, I don’t know your business but the chances are that you would be eligible.

The only businesses we can not support are A) those with (in our view) no prospect of being financially viable and sustaining employment in the short to medium term and those in sectors characterised by a lot of very similar businesses in a saturated market. In these sectors, supporting growth in one enterprise will only lead to a corresponding decline in competing businesses, with no net benefit to the economy and no return on public funds. This is a very real danger when most markets are stagnant like now. Examples of this are common in construction, retailing (including on-line), the professions and transportation.

Secondly, the reason we have no financial supports at present is because demand is double what it was last year, not because our financial support budget was cut by the Dept of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. This is a local situation in our Enterprise Board but may not be reflected in all CEBs – I don’t have information on that issue.

I accept that this is not what you were told. I believe our Information Officer mis-spoke. I can well imagine that she seemed ‘nervous’ to you. The fact of the matter is that we HATE saying “no” to entrepreneurs and we are very uncomfortable when that is all we have to say. All five of us on the staff here come from a commercial private sector background. There is not one career civil servant among us and we see ourselves as being energetically on the side of the client and on the side of our county. My Board of Directors feel the same way.]

In fairness, we have not had a lot of practice at saying no. During the celtic tiger years, when it seemed that anybody who wanted to finance a business just made a phonecall and got a top-up on their mortgage, our funding was enough to support any sensible business proposal within our remit. Even this year, we have been able to keep assisting new projects until funds ran out just recently. Towards the end of the year we will be able to offer support to further projects but for payment in 2010, not this year.

On the other hand, when we answer to you Darragh, and all of the other posters here, for our use of the income tax, VAT and corporation tax that was taken from you and given to us to use for the common good, we have to be able to show that we used that money well and wasted none of it. We have to be able to show your representatives (our government) that we only gave that money to businesses that make sense and can use your money to grow employment and pay taxes so that we can all benefit. To do this, we have to use all of our experience and the best of our human judgement and we can still sometimes be wrong. Understandably, people don’t like those judgements when they are negative. It is harder to hear “no” than to say “no”.

Just to give you some context; there are 35 CEBs covering all areas of the country, each employing between 3 and 5 people and with an average budget of about €1m each per annum to cover everything, including the money we spend on financial and non-financial supports for our clients. We were designed to be very small, responsive, located in a town very near you and run by people you probably know – just like the businesses we serve. We are required to focus on the distinct needs of our local area and use our experience and judgement to provide a customised response within an overall common framework. That is why people are sometimes confused by the differences between us.

Yes, we are tiny but I would argue that we punch above our weight. There are over 1100 extra people still working today in South Dublin County in jobs that we supported financially. The average cost of this direct financial support is close to €7,500 per job and is very quickly recouped by the State in lower social welfare payments and in PAYE, VAT on extra spending and corporation tax on profits (we estimate 18 weeks at most). Even when you factor in the cost of non-financial supports plus administration (about as much again) it is still a great bargain for the taxpayer.

Is there a better way of doing what we set out to do? Possibly, and I for one will listen to any ideas. Unfortunately, as a society, we have a tendency to believe that there are simple radical answers to any question. I am afraid that things are often not that simple and complex problems need sophisticated responses.

As to what we will be doing when we have no funds to award, well our non-financial supports (training programmes, mentoring, networking, advice, information publications and promotion of entrepreneurship:- mainly in the education system) are all still going strong, and the demand for them is higher than ever, even though this is an area where our budget WAS actually cut quite severely. Most previous clients will admit in retrospect that it was the non-financial support that was more valuable than the financial support. There is more than enough work for us in supporting our local business community in these ways and, as I said above, we expect to be able to offer further financial support to eligible commercially viable businesses towards the end of the year. From January next, our staff numbers will be down by 20% due to one retirement that will not be replaced - I don't know at this stage how we will cope with that.

If you have read this far; well done! I have no doubt that I will get a lashing for some aspect or other of what I have said. However, I have tried to be open, avoid being overly defensive and offer some accurate information. I won’t be responding further in open forum– I think I have said enough.

Thank you for raising this issue and I wish you well with your plans for the website.

Loman O’Byrne

irissh

I might have an idea/basic work done for a web business with minimal startup costs if anyone's interested.

Evil Phil

As I BRITE program alumni I have to defend Angst. The training and mentoring I received last year was fantastic. The BRITE program is run by all 4 CEBs in Dublin. The DCEB continue to support me in anyway they can. They, like Angst's team I'm sure, are doing an outstanding job in very difficult circumstances. Sure they mightn't be able to give money away but that's because the state is essentially broke. Not the fault of the enterprise boards.

The upshot of my time on BRITE is the start of my second business and I'm developing a partnership with another company I was studying with. No I haven't received funding from them but I've received fantastic training on what funding options are available not to mention all the other business skills the program covered.

I have to say, hats off to them.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

I think everyone gets that the CEBs are doing their best and would love to be doing more. So its not that were knocking them personally as such. But its disgraceful that they are massively under funded and wouldn't the gov be better off giving some of the money to Start-ups that would employ rather than waiting for a month to give that same amount of money to those potential employees as Dole money.

Saying that wouldn't like to be in their position of saying no or delaying success start-ups from launch.

mattfinucane

Read this: http://www.mulley.net/2010/02/12/the-e4-million-govt-website-that-you-never-heard-of/

It sickens me to see that people are getting away this this and unfortunately it's not the exception in this country, it's the norm.

Four million Euro on a website. For million Euro. That's enough money to fund one hundred startups.

jackbauer

I started a manufacturing business in the early 2000's and I traded internationally. CEB had me running around in rings for 6 months filling forms , going to meetings , phone calls and more meetings etc etc. End result was "Sorry your too small".

Starting a business in Ireland is chicken and egg. They won't help until you're well established. Cant get well established without help ..............

TheLoneRanger

SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD
I have been refused grant aid on the grounds hat the "Evaluation Committee of the Board is not convinced of the viability of the business model presented in the plan" . I find this totally unacceptable its like saying the sky is blue or trees are green there must a more pinpoint reason for refusal as this application and all the work that has gone into it will be a waste of time .
The time that has gone into this merits a much better response from the board . I have had an idea and have put not just my time and energy but all my money into this project and have created 12 jobs and have trained up these individuals . I have had great interest from local clubs and business's alike and needed funding to create work stations in an enterprise unit so the grant I would have gotten would have gone mostly on creating work area's and improving an enterprise unit . I am not a quitter as you ad the rest of the board will find out this has made my resolve even stronger . I would like to sit with BOARD (NO REPLY) and answer any doubts any of you may have on this project I am all in at this stage with over 15,000 invested from me thus far I have sold many things personally to get it this far including my car . I don't think 10,000 more from the enterprise board is much to ask and if that money was to create just 1 job it would have been money wisely spent . I have contacted my TD about this ludricous decision and I will also be contacting Minister Bruton . If the board cannot see the viability of this project and dont have the vision to see its potentual then I for one have very little faith in its existance and budgetry cost to the state . JUST AS A MATTER OF INTEREST WHAT IS THE SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD'S YEARLY BUDGET INCLUDING STAFF WAGES AND HOW MANY JOBS DID THEY HELP TO CREATE ? IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH APPRICAITED

HellFireClub

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD
I have been refused grant aid on the grounds hat the "Evaluation Committee of the Board is not convinced of the viability of the business model presented in the plan" . I find this totally unacceptable its like saying the sky is blue or trees are green there must a more pinpoint reason for refusal as this application and all the work that has gone into it will be a waste of time .
The time that has gone into this merits a much better response from the board . I have had an idea and have put not just my time and energy but all my money into this project and have created 12 jobs and have trained up these individuals . I have had great interest from local clubs and business's alike and needed funding to create work stations in an enterprise unit so the grant I would have gotten would have gone mostly on creating work area's and improving an enterprise unit . I am not a quitter as you ad the rest of the board will find out this has made my resolve even stronger . I would like to sit with BOARD (NO REPLY) and answer any doubts any of you may have on this project I am all in at this stage with over 15,000 invested from me thus far I have sold many things personally to get it this far including my car . I don't think 10,000 more from the enterprise board is much to ask and if that money was to create just 1 job it would have been money wisely spent . I have contacted my TD about this ludricous decision and I will also be contacting Minister Bruton . If the board cannot see the viability of this project and dont have the vision to see its potentual then I for one have very little faith in its existance and budgetry cost to the state . JUST AS A MATTER OF INTEREST WHAT IS THE SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD'S YEARLY BUDGET INCLUDING STAFF WAGES AND HOW MANY JOBS DID THEY HELP TO CREATE ? IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH APPRICAITED

The South Dublin County Enterprise Board is a board of politically appointed arsehóle wasters who haven't, by their own admission, a cent to support any business. You are completely and utterly wasting your time dealing with these people, they are politicians ffs!!!

They exist only to create paperwork, file paperwork and reject all applications in a politically acceptable way, (in your case, they claim the idea isn't feasible, when the truth is that they haven't got a cent to support any business).

So where are you now??? As a person trying to start a business and maybe get your life back on track, now you are a bit more demoralised and beaten down, than you were before you started dealing with them.

Avoid as you would with the Ebola virus is my advice, your energy and drive are finite resources, entities like the CEB's will grind you down to the point where you will question your sanity OP...

HellFireClub

Evil Phil wrote: »

As I BRITE program alumni I have to defend Angst. The training and mentoring I received last year was fantastic. The BRITE program is run by all 4 CEBs in Dublin. The DCEB continue to support me in anyway they can. They, like Angst's team I'm sure, are doing an outstanding job in very difficult circumstances. Sure they mightn't be able to give money away but that's because the state is essentially broke. Not the fault of the enterprise boards.

The upshot of my time on BRITE is the start of my second business and I'm developing a partnership with another company I was studying with. No I haven't received funding from them but I've received fantastic training on what funding options are available not to mention all the other business skills the program covered.

I have to say, hats off to them.

Sorry I'm takin you up on this Phil so long after you posted this. We don't have the money to support people who want to get off the dole, but we have 10K a year to pay people to stay on the dole indefinitely?!?

The CEB's are the most useless bunch of politicallly appointed muppets that I have ever encountered.

TheLoneRanger

Do not for 1 minute expect an enterprise board to help you this is fact last year the SDEB funding was indeed slashed by nearly 1/4 of a million unexplainably this was taken from the diect funding not wages to the 4 employes that account for 395000 of a budget of 900000 oh yes its real 4 employees get nearly half the budget ha ha jokes on us lol howver the bull**** and deciet does not end there its abuse is wider of the remainding funds asshole mentors and training schools get another 400000 in beautiful hand shakes so direct funding from these errionious deprtments is at most 1/5 or less anyone seeking help does not need a a failed business person)mentor they are already paying an accountant its real were paying for these idiots from our taxes to get their good wages to ismiss good business projects. my example i have an undisputd great idea which they aree but tell me my project need suervision from ..... yes an appointed mentor wow did i not see that coming ha ha i failed to tell them that i have a mba in business and marketing from the smurfit business school in carysfort college that out ranks anyone on their board or idiot appointed metors so my advice do not waste your time with these time wasters and the SDEB ceo louney o loman is so out of touch that he greadily accepts hs paycheck without a care in he world atrue politiion well done

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

i failed to tell them that i have a mba in business and marketing from the smurfit business school in carysfort college that out ranks anyone on their board or idiot appointed metors

While I too have very little love for CEB's work sometimes, you holding back information like having an MBA and then being surprised they think you need "metors" supervision... Why would they help you if you are purposely misleading them?

TheLoneRanger

Hi Ronan te term is "mentors" and prey tell did you get a rant? if o tell us all how please.

DubTony

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

Hi Ronan te term is "mentors" and prey tell did you get a rant? if o tell us all how please.

Holy crap. Pot & Kettle.

Apart from funding do CEBs do anything else? Do they offer advice, help with business plans, offer courses or any of that stuff? It seems to me that if they aren't giving out money, there's no real need for them unless they provide some other service.

TheLoneRanger

Ha ha love it Tony I think I just may need a new keyboard too as the frustrations I'm feeling have resulted in the wearing down of same. Thanks again for your wit and eagle-eye observation well done it has lifted my spirits this morning.

RedXIV

DubTony wrote: »

Holy crap. Pot & Kettle.

Apart from funding do CEBs do anything else? Do they offer advice, help with business plans, offer courses or any of that stuff? It seems to me that if they aren't giving out money, there's no real need for them unless they provide some other service.

They do offer advice on a series of topics but to be honest, it could use an overhaul since we used it in 2009. We went in with a business plan and they went over it page by page with us which was great. Then they set me up on a postgrad course for Enterprise development. For some that may have been great, but it wasn't what we needed. We needed help with day to day business forms and we managed to get ONE session with someone in the year we were open.

An Experienced mentor that could schedule in someone once a fortnight would have been perfect for us

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

Hi Ronan te term is "mentors" and prey tell did you get a rant? if o tell us all how please.

:rolleyes: The reason there was quotations marks around the misspelling was because I was quoting you!! I'm dyslexic too, but seriously for an MBA such badly published English is embarrassing install a spell check in your browser.

I have got grants before during the boom and If i had to do it over I would (and did) hand the grants back, because they cost far more in time to appease than they were worth. Honestly I don't think many businesses need all the grants / money they believe they do, start up's with money tend to burn it very fast and someone with experience can add far more value than money can.

CEB's really are cash starved and have realistically no money to fund businesses. Lately their courses are awarded to the lecturers under the following criteria "Lowest priced tender submission" which often means you get poor quality guidance, for example social media courses including how to use BEBO for business. As they say pay monkeys and get peanuts. However the knock on effect is people who think they understand the area after a course going on to pass on this "knowledge".

TheLoneRanger

Hi Ronan thanks for your intellegent observion on my errors in spelling for give me at least you didn't put "must try harder" at the bottom. Could you elaborate more on your grant aid? and how a retailer achieved the perverbial "blood from a stone". The admission by you that the CEB's are cash strapped may be true and this may warrent a closure of the CEBS's as burden on the already broken backs of the tax payer. I have done a little research of my own their budget was slashed last year by 200,000 or so but guess what in the SDEB they have 4 employees that amount to over 390,000 per anum (great money in these dark depressing times) and the remainder of their budget 575,000 or so 400,000 goes to their fries "Mentors and training etc" 200,000 or so goes into funding for set ups.This may very well sound "Monthy Phytonish" "were not actualy the resce committee Brian" lol but the laugh is on us because we the tax payer foots the bill of these antiquated "jobs for the boys brigade" with more taxes coming as well as a budget that will have us all cowering. The CEB's are there for themselves and have no shame what so ever .

TheLoneRanger

Sorry all for the misspellings as I a in for a grant from the SDEB to rectify and resolve this problem shouldn't be too long I hope lol:p

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

It's extremely hard to fire, unwind and disband gov agencies. Also they do do a lot of good, they just don't have any money to hand out. It's best to start looking towards Angel investors and banks who have started to lend again.

TheLoneRanger

Thanks for your honest reply but there has to be a complete shake up and re-evalation of how and why in respect this countrys very existance that we move forward we don' have the money to squander any further on delapated departments that offer hope that is apparently not there. The facts are that there are too many free loaders in our society and because this it has become generic and acceptable to pontifacate to the masses because of you connections you have made to abuse your place of power. These departments are a hinderance not help in these times as they are not truthful or honest in their approach that borders on treason of the state.

mari2222

The information published indicates CEBS are funded by 21m in the current year.
This compares roughly to the published figure for local representatives (councillors) allowances which is 24 million euro.

TheLoneRanger

With the live register at nearly 1/2 million and another 1/2 directly or indirectly employed in the public sector how many people are working if you take out children,oaps,sick,disabed and people on back to work schemes and ce scheames etc we would be lucky to have 1/2 of our populaton covering everyone else this will only contract with added taxes but there is a very simple soloution.