Toireasa Ferris again refuses to condemn Jerry McCabes killers

RedPlanet

solice wrote: »

I appreciate all that, but should that not make it easier for her to condemn the murder now that the organisation that Sinn Fein were representing and protecting no longer exists

I think it has to do with a party political position of not engaging "condemnation politics".

solice

RedPlanet wrote: »

I think it has to do with a party political position of not engaging "condemnation politics".

God forbid we condemn an illegal crime....

And also, the people who did murder Garda Gerry McCabe were arrested and convicted in a court of law and sent to prison, this means that they did actually commit an illegal offence against the state. Those Ms Ferris' inability to condemn these people mean that she thinks that the state were wrong to send these people to prison or does it indicate that she has no respect for the justice system in Ireland?

And it wouldnt be at all like Sinn Fein to take the moral high ground and not condemn other politicians for not turning up to parlimentary proceedings in Europe or the UK!!!!!!

RedPlanet

solice wrote: »

Those Ms Ferris' inability to condemn these people mean that she thinks that the state were wrong to send these people to prison or does it indicate that she has no respect for the justice system in Ireland?

I can't speak for Ms. Ferris.
But i suspect by not condemning the murder during the interview, she was simply sticking to her party political position on the matter.
We aren't children here, are we?

solice

RedPlanet wrote: »

I can't speak for Ms. Ferris.
But i suspect by not condemning the murder during the interview, she was simply sticking to her party political position on the matter.
We aren't children here, are we?

Nope, just a law abiding citizen of a democratic state

RedPlanet

solice wrote: »

Nope, just a law abiding citizen of a democratic state

I think it's wrong too. I think SF should change their policy regarding condemnations.
But i don't get a hardon about it.

Liam Byrne

RedPlanet wrote: »

Wake up, it's 2009 now.

While I wouldn't COMPLETELY agree with the first part of Solice's post, the "wake up, it's 2009 now" could apply in either direction.

If you want to get elected you need to convince people - and in this country that's THE GENERAL PUBLIC, not your brainwashed chip-on-shoulder fellow "victimised" travellers - that you uphold the law of the land and represent their views.

And most people's views don't see murdering Gardai as being "uncondemn-able".

P.S. The "You Deserve Better" is actually ironic; when put on a flyer beside her photo and her list of what damage selective OTHERS have done in the past 13 years, it begs the response:

"Yes, Toireasa - we do. So we'll vote for them instead of you."

Liam Byrne

RedPlanet wrote: »

I think it has to do with a party political position of not engaging "condemnation politics".

LMAO!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

Since when ?

(Can't type any more because I have to duck as there's a flock of airborne swine heading in my direction)

RedPlanet

Liam Byrne wrote: »

LMAO!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

Since when ?

i think it's a long standing policy, but i think it's refering to not condemning Republican violence specifically.
I know, it's just so so shocking! :eek::eek::eek::rolleyes:

solice

RedPlanet wrote: »

i think it's a long standing policy, but i think it's refering to not condemning Republican violence specifically.

enough said...

Liam Byrne

RedPlanet wrote: »

i think it's a long standing policy, but i think it's refering to not condemning Republican violence specifically.
I know, it's just so so shocking! :eek::eek::eek::rolleyes:

Ah.....the old "we'll do whatever the f**k we like, but as soon as someone else does something to us, we'll whinge and throw a tantrum like a 2-year-old".

And to think I got accused of double-standards earlier for wanting to treat like with like :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

FTA69

Not particularly "bogus"; maybe that part of the original post doesn't FULLY apply given that Toireasa isn't the actual "drug-dealer or rapist" (and since you know her personally I'll take your word for it on that) .... which is precisely why I added the second line:

Well I don't think her supporting the IRA campaign is equivalent to supporting drug-dealers or rapists either to be fair.

Joey the lips

VO wrote: »

I have a simple outlook on who I will not vote for.

1. I dont vote for any party who support or have supported Murders or Thieves so I don't vote for Sinn Fein

2. I don't vote for any party who's members are ex murderers, gun runners or thieves hence i don't vote for Sinn Fein or Fianna Fail. (or Michael Lowry)

While your at it add labour ( Pat Rabbit Eamonn Gilmore Official IRA) and Fine Gael ( The Blueshirts ) to that list. Please get real and stop living in the past. All politics is local afterall!

solice

Joey the lips wrote: »

Please get real and stop living in the past. All politics is local afterall!

It is the current party policy to support the killers of Gerry McCabe.

Liam Byrne

FTA69 wrote: »

Well I don't think her supporting the IRA campaign is equivalent to supporting drug-dealers or rapists either to be fair.

Depends on what parts of it she supported.

There may be differing views on the validity or otherwise of some of the activities targetted at the "occupying forces".

There may also be differing views on the killing of innocents "accidentally" by bombing them......

I'm not comfortable with some of the above, but I can see where it came from; I'm completely uncomfortable with other parts, because it was unnecessary.

The biggest problem I have with those is when SF/IRA point fingers and refuse to give the benefit of the doubt to "the other side", but expect us to believe what they say were accidents when they did it.

But you know my view on those from other threads, and Toireasa Ferris wasn't asked about those, so that's kindof off-topic; I only included them to show that I'm not a "lynch them all, regardless" type.

But attacking one of "our own" in OUR country while he as protecting OUR money was WAYYYYY off the mark.

Whatever about her own rules and morals, she has to represent OUR views.

e.g. if she was pro-abortion, but 99.9% of Kerry was anti-abortion, then she'd be expected to represent the 99.9% if she was elected.

And since all right-thinking people want her to condemn the murder, she either (a) should or (b) stop asking us for our vote.

the_syco

In 2005, those imprisoned over the murder stated that they did not want their release "to be part of any further negotiations with the Irish government.

RedPlanet wrote: »

i think it's a long standing policy, but i think it's refering to not condemning Republican violence specifically.

Pretty sure that the operation wasn't sanctioned by the Army Council, thus it's criminal violence, not republican violence. Furthermore, they weren't shooting the loylists or British troops, they were shooting Irish Gardai in Limerick.

FTA69

Depends on what parts of it she supported.

Well I imagined she supported full stop but is able to acknowledge the fact that sometimes things occurred which were wrong.

e.g. if she was pro-abortion, but 99.9% of Kerry was anti-abortion, then she'd be expected to represent the 99.9% if she was elected.

That's not the way things work though, politicians are there to represent people, fair enough. But they stand on a particular platform while espousing particular beliefs, people can then weight that up and then decide to vote for them or not. It isn't a case that x% supports y therefore all politicians must suscribe to it. I think the abortion thing is another analogy well wide of the mark like.

And since all right-thinking people want her to condemn the murder, she either (a) should or (b) stop asking us for our vote.

It isn't that black and white and well you know it. To start selecting certain events and incidents and saying do you "condemn" this or that is pointless. I think it's no secret that Sinn Féin believes that the IRA campaign was a necessary and justified thing, but to reiterate; they can acknowledge that many things that went on were wrong but that they aren't getting into condemnation politics over specific incidents of a campaign that occurred during a war.

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

While your at it add labour ( Pat Rabbit Eamonn Gilmore Official IRA) and Fine Gael ( The Blueshirts ) to that list. Please get real and stop living in the past. All politics is local afterall!

solice wrote: »

It is the current party policy to support the killers of Gerry McCabe.

Now thats amazing look at what i said and what you said! 2 different things! I was quoting someone who gave reasons for not voting sinn fein and you changed it back to Current party policy. I was not discussing this!


Lets be straight! People who vote sinn fein and Ms Ferris vote for her not only because of the actions of the IRA but because of ms ferris's actions and work.

I would not expect Ms Ferris not should anybody on this thread expect ms ferris to condem the kelling of Jerry McCabe! It will never happen!

Its past! like I said the IRA is past history, the official IRA is past history and thats where is shall remain.

Believe what you want but know this! Constantly linking the IRA and sinn fein actually does more for sinn feins campagn because sinn feins support comes from a middle and working class area.

otherwise I would not have contributed to this nonsense!

FTA69

the_syco wrote: »

In 2005, those imprisoned over the murder stated that they did not want their release "to be part of any further negotiations with the Irish government.

They maintained that they were and are eligible prisoners to be released but that they didn't want their case being used to bolster the position of others. They are eligible prisoners according to the GFA, that's a fact.

Pretty sure that the operation wasn't sanctioned by the Army Council

But it was sanctioned by the IRA, the Army Council didn't sanction every single operation going. People who use IRA weapons to do homers usually end up being shot for bringing the organisation into disrepute. If they were on a homer they'd have been dropped like a hot snot, and rightly so.

mega man

Raiser wrote: »

Well Kerrys answer to Sharon Stone was on the radio again this morning and again saw no reason to condemn the thieving, scumbag criminals who in the process of botching a robbery shot dead a married father of five children in cold blood as he attempted to carrying out his professional duties.

- Running for a local seat in case she flops as a Euro Candidate and running for Europe in case the locals see through her, Toireasa is covering all the bases but what can this election Candidate offer anyone from such an incredibly dilapidated, rotten, indefensible moral platform?

OMG get over it! Every time theres an election sinn fein get asked the same question. gerry mccabe was killed during the troubles. if sinn fein condemns this killing they must condemn all killings during the troubles. Everybody knows sinn feins position by now.
I'm becoming quite sick of hearing this year in year out. Its old news. Nobody cares only the ones running for re-election and they should be far less concerned about the murder of a garda 13 years ago and be more concerned about there recent performance in government.

Poccington

Joey the lips wrote: »

Believe what you want but know this! Constantly linking the IRA and sinn fein actually does more for sinn feins campagn because sinn feins support comes from a middle and working class area.

otherwise I would not have contributed to this nonsense!

Oh of course it does more for them, since all middle and working class folk are supporters of the IRA.

/Sarcasm

Poccington

mega man wrote: »

OMG get over it! Every time theres an election sinn fein get asked the same question. gerry mccabe was killed during the troubles. if sinn fein condemns this killing they must condemn all killings during the troubles. Everybody knows sinn feins position by now.
I'm becoming quite sick of hearing this year in year out. Its old news. Nobody cares only the ones running for re-election and they should be far less concerned about the murder of a garda 13 years ago and be more concerned about there recent performance in government.

He was murdered by members of the IRA, acting on their own impulse and without the authorisation of the "Army" Council. The murder had no connection to the Troubles other than the organisation which the murderers were a part of.

Hardly asking much for them to actually come out and condemn a senseless murder is it?

Liam Byrne

FTA69 wrote: »

It isn't a case that x% supports y therefore all politicians must suscribe to it.

If you're representing the people, then you need to represent their views. Otherwise you are not appropriate to represent them.

True, this might not apply for smaller issues, when there's general agreement on the bigger ones.

But murder and condoning criminal acts is a big one.

FTA69 wrote: »

they aren't getting into condemnation politics over specific incidents of a campaign that occurred during a war.

If only that were true, I'd at least give them a clap on the back for being consistent, however as pointed out by others they tend to do this only for 50% of the issues, and condemn like hell when it's the "other side", despite any blatant mirroring or similarities.

Liam Byrne

FTA69 wrote: »

Well I imagined she supported full stop but is able to acknowledge the fact that sometimes things occurred which were wrong.

Is she ? Then she should come out and say it.

Souljacker

mega man wrote: »

OMG get over it! Every time theres an election sinn fein get asked the same question. gerry mccabe was killed during the troubles. if sinn fein condemns this killing they must condemn all killings during the troubles. Everybody knows sinn feins position by now.
I'm becoming quite sick of hearing this year in year out. Its old news. Nobody cares only the ones running for re-election and they should be far less concerned about the murder of a garda 13 years ago and be more concerned about there recent performance in government.

Apparently quite a few people care vis-à-vis the popularity of this thread.

If you want to look a little more recently why don't we focus in on what happened 5 years ago when SF negotiated the release of the 4 brutal killers who killed Jerry and left another gard for dead.

Lets see what SF's current stance is on the murder of Jerry McCabe which as it stands today is that they condone the murder of Garda in the line of duty.

Ann McCabe, Jerry's widow had this to say about Sinn Fein and the IRA expressing regret after they both wrangled the release of their comrades for committing this brutal murder:

Ann McCabe wrote:

The widow of a police officer killed by the Irish Republican Army rejected the outlawed group's apology Monday as self-serving, dishonest and nine years too late.

"It doesn't wash with me. It means absolutely nothing," she said.

You really think Ann McCabe doesn't care about her husband's murder? You don't think Jerry's 4 children care? Why should they have to put up with anyone, least of all politicians who condone her husband’s murder and petition for the murderer's release?

SF will continue to be nothing more than an insignificant party on the margins in the republic, which is exactly what they deserve.

nuac

I note WalshB says that Ms Ferris cannot condemn the McCabe murder because of "orders". That is top-down Stalinist thinking. Anybody seeking public support should condemn this murder.

I agree stongly with OscarBravo and Liam Byrne posts on this topic.

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

Now thats amazing look at what i said and what you said! 2 different things! I was quoting someone who gave reasons for not voting sinn fein and you changed it back to Current party policy. I was not discussing this!


Lets be straight! People who vote sinn fein and Ms Ferris vote for her not only because of the actions of the IRA but because of ms ferris's actions and work.

I would not expect Ms Ferris not should anybody on this thread expect ms ferris to condem the kelling of Jerry McCabe! It will never happen!

Its past! like I said the IRA is past history, the official IRA is past history and thats where is shall remain.

Believe what you want but know this! Constantly linking the IRA and sinn fein actually does more for sinn feins campagn because sinn feins support comes from a middle and working class area.

otherwise I would not have contributed to this nonsense!

Poccington wrote: »

Oh of course it does more for them, since all middle and working class folk are supporters of the IRA.

/Sarcasm

Thats not what I said and if all middle class and working class vote actually came out. Your preductions would be correct. But its a fact that the working class has the lowest turnout!

thebman

Working class and Middle class turn out might improve if elections were held on weekends.

Joey the lips

thebman wrote: »

Working class and Middle class turn out might improve if elections were held on weekends.

I agree but as the Irish national organisation of the unemployed suggest many years ago! They also suggested when it was orig muted that the voting machines were introduced that dummy ones should be set up to teach the poorly educated how to vote and this actually brings us back to the topic as

Toiresa Ferris and her party have actually conducted mock votes to teach the poorly educated and those who cannot understand the voting system how to vote!

You have to ask why the current goverment do not fund the INOU to do this. Is it becuase unlike ms ferris they are afraid of that vote.

See while ms ferris will not condem Jerry McCabes killers she is right in saying we do deserve better and the one thing she cannot be accused of is not sticking by what she believes in!

Souljacker

Joey the lips wrote: »

See while ms Ferris will not condemn Jerry McCabe’s killers she is right in saying we do deserve better and the one thing she cannot be accused of is not sticking by what she believes in!

The way you phrased that sentence seems to imply you think Ferris is wrong to not condemn the Jerry McCabe murders. Just making an observation.

I completely agree that everyone should be educated on democracy and the right to vote, starting in primary school and continuing right through until a child leaves the education system. Civics classes should also be tied into Adult learning programmes to help the 1000's of people who've been failed by our education system.

You'll have to forgive me but I doubt Ferris's desire to teach the 'poorly educated' how to vote is in anyway altruistic.

Any political party taking on such a role is open to the acquisition of perverting the course of democracy. That's just reality regardless of who the party is.

I wouldn't want the Greens, Labour FG, FF or any political party to be involved in such an action because the option to corrupt exists.

Liam Byrne

Joey the lips wrote: »

sinn feins support comes from a middle and working class area.

Not saying I completely agree with you, since I believe that not all working class people are bloodythirsty, brainwashed, sectarian nationalists who condone crime.

But let's just assume that you are correct to at least some extent, because it's true to say that it's the most knackerish of working-class pubs in which you'd hear chants like the idiotic "ooh, ah up the 'ra". :rolleyes:

So there's some truth in what you posted.

Joey the lips wrote: »

Toiresa Ferris and her party have actually conducted mock votes to teach the poorly educated and those who cannot understand the voting system how to vote!

Hmmmm, such a noble thing to do, don't you think ?

Did that include a campaign to ensure that elections were held at weekends, so that the educated students who can't get home to vote midweek get their say, or would that have cancelled out the potential gains because they'd be less susceptible to the brainwashing ?

Like I said, if Toireasa wants my vote (and since she asked me personally, she obviously does) she can (a) quit SF and then when released from her "party line" condemn the murder or (b) convince the party that the only way to be taken seriously is to be as voiciferous in condemning such atrocities as they seem to be when it's what they view as "the other side" that committed them.