If you don't vote do you have a right to complain?

mufc4lfe

vote no1 terry o brien

Akrasia

jmayo wrote: »

So instead of voting you complain on the interweb and wait for a revolution or something to come along to change the system ?
Meanwhile you get ridden sideways by a bunch of chancers becuase you and others refuse to vote them out of office :rolleyes:

Vote them out of office to be ridden sideways by a different bunch of chancers?
If I had any confidence that any of the candidates running for election would implement the kinds of policies that I am in favour of, them I would vote for them in a heartbeat.

ave you read any of the election literature that has come through your letterbox in the last month? Every single candidate is in favour of exactly the same policies. "jobs, public order, the health service"
Why should I vote 'for change' when they don't even have the imagination to be different in their own election literature.

I am sure Clowen et al are upset that you choose not to vote, after all it is one vote lost to the opposition and affectively a vote for them.
Nice.

And a vote for the 'opposition' is a vote giving them a 'mandate' to follow their own failed policies if they get elected.

Lets say I vote FG and then enda gets elected with a big majority. For the next 5 years I have to grit my teeth and listen to him going on about his mandate from 'the people' (including me as I would ahve voted for him) every time he does something that I strongly disagree with.

I believe anyone who can't be bothered to go down to their local school/polling station and vote has fu** all right complaining about how the government are useless, they are screwing us and how they don't represent the people.

If you don't like the government go down and vote for anyone bar a member of the government parties.
That way you are sending a signal that you disapprove of these parties.

If you don't vote you are in fact approving them.

No you're not, if you vote for someone, you approve them. How often do you hear people saying "you voted for FF at the last election so you are responsible for the corruption and incompetence of this government"

If I vote for FG and they get into power and are just as incompetent and corrupt as FF, then people will be saying the exact same thing to me. What happens if there is a coalition of FG and Labour which collapses after 2 years due to incompetence and scandal and bickering? Do we go back and vote for FF as a protest against FG/labour?
Do we vote for a new unproven (potential dangerous) party like Libertas 'for change' or do we go for Sinn Fein or the trotskyists or a coalition of 166 single issue independent candidates?

Akrasia

O'Coonassa wrote: »

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104400



Vote for Turd Sandwich! You know it makes sense :pac:

You're a turd sandwich

thebman

Honestly if you care that much and party represents your policies, just put yourself forward or start your own party.

djpbarry

Akrasia wrote: »

Lets say I vote FG and then enda gets elected with a big majority. For the next 5 years I have to grit my teeth and listen to him going on about his mandate from 'the people' (including me as I would ahve voted for him) every time he does something that I strongly disagree with.

Or you could, ye know, let the government know when they do something you disagree with? Or, better still, you could register your protest against a particular TD's/Minster's proposals, before they are implemented. Democracy does not end at the ballot box.

lostexpectation

Democracy does not end at the ballot box.

yous lot have changed your tune since the thread title

jmayo

Akrasia wrote: »

Vote them out of office to be ridden sideways by a different bunch of chancers?

How do you know, are you physic ?

So your solution is do fu** all :rolleyes:
Clowen must love people like you becuase no matter how much he f**ks up, you will not vote against him and his party :mad:

Akrasia wrote: »

If I had any confidence that any of the candidates running for election would implement the kinds of policies that I am in favour of, them I would vote for them in a heartbeat.

So you will sit on your hands and wait until a candiate comes along that is either green enough, republican enough, economically liberal enough, fascist enough, communist enough, etc or whatever is your preference ?
Then you vote ?
Meanwhile you will be on here and probably other forums bitching about the government and political parties :rolleyes:

Akrasia wrote: »

ave you read any of the election literature that has come through your letterbox in the last month? Every single candidate is in favour of exactly the same policies. "jobs, public order, the health service"
Why should I vote 'for change' when they don't even have the imagination to be different in their own election literature.

You hardly expect them to say they are in favour of anarchy or no jobs ?
What do you want in their literature, muscial jingles or something

BTW FF literature is different in bad way in that they are hiding their logos.
Maybe they should have a competition, where you have to spot the logo and name hidden in there somewhere

Akrasia wrote: »

And a vote for the 'opposition' is a vote giving them a 'mandate' to follow their own failed policies if they get elected.

And not voting is a vote for the government and their PROVEN failed policies :rolleyes:

Akrasia wrote: »

Lets say I vote FG and then enda gets elected with a big majority. For the next 5 years I have to grit my teeth and listen to him going on about his mandate from 'the people' (including me as I would ahve voted for him) every time he does something that I strongly disagree with.

And then in 5 years, or whatever is the next election, you vote agianst his party.

Akrasia wrote: »

No you're not, if you vote for someone, you approve them. How often do you hear people saying "you voted for FF at the last election so you are responsible for the corruption and incompetence of this government"

And if you don't votre against the government you are approving them because you are affectively saying that I won't vote against you.
Remember Dubba's little "you are either with us or against us" mentality.

Akrasia wrote: »

If I vote for FG and they get into power and are just as incompetent and corrupt as FF, then people will be saying the exact same thing to me. What happens if there is a coalition of FG and Labour which collapses after 2 years due to incompetence and scandal and bickering? Do we go back and vote for FF as a protest against FG/labour?
Do we vote for a new unproven (potential dangerous) party like Libertas 'for change' or do we go for Sinn Fein or the trotskyists or a coalition of 166 single issue independent candidates?

Oh dear God, take a fu**ing chance :mad::mad:
What have you to lose ?
And if you don't vote against FF you are stuck with a proven incompetent regime.
Have you ever thought about that.

You appear to have listened to the good old soldiers of dysentry and their mantra that the others are just as corrupt, unethical and inept as us.

Why not take a chance and give the incumbents a bloody nose and see if they get their act together.
Otherwise you are just condoning their performance.

One question, do you keep going back to shops, etc that give you bad service ?
You must be a bad mechanics dream customer

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

And not voting is a vote for the government and their PROVEN failed policies :rolleyes:

Not really no, it's a vote for whoever the rest of society votes in and from the looks of it the current Government definitely isn't going to be returned unless there is a major turnaround in their polling.

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

Not really no, it's a vote for whoever the rest of society votes in and from the looks of it the current Government definitely isn't going to be returned unless there is a major turnaround in their polling.

That is just passing the buck.
It is the mentality of why bother doing anything because someone else will.
It is the cop out that my vote doesn't matter so why bother.
If every voter who was anti government and possibly anti polticis thought that and didn't bother voting then would the government actually be in trouble since it's ardent supoorters would probably vote ?

It appears that is a typical Irish phenomenon as can be judged from the recent Ryan Report into wholesale institutionalised child abuse that lasted in this state for nigh on 60 years.
Nobody ever bothered doing anything, maybe they were waiting for someone else to raise their head above the parapet.

To paraphrase the supposed quote of Edmund Burke
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

It really does sum up our little country me thinks.

Akrasia

[QUOTE=jmayo;60515006
You hardly expect them to say they are in favour of anarchy or no jobs ?
What do you want in their literature, muscial jingles or something [/quote]
I expect specifics that can constitute a mandate.
eg, if I am elected, I will spend all my resources on working for specific projects or goals.
Clearly identifiable targets and proposals that I can agree with or disagree with.
Not one piece of campaign literature I have received have had anything that could even remotely be described as a specific goal or proposal.

As it stands, everyone is for 'jobs' and against crime. Does this mean if jobs increase and crime falls that they've been a success? conversely, if the opposite happens, have they failed?

And not voting is a vote for the government and their PROVEN failed policies :rolleyes:

You are accusing me of failing to act responsibly by not voting, But I accuse you of failing to take responsibility for your own vote. If you elect someone on the basis that they're not in FF, and then they turn out to be even more corrupt or incompetent than the government they replaced, will you accept your responsibility for electing this guy that you knew nothing about?

or will you just go on about the duty to vote, no matter what the consequences are.

And then in 5 years, or whatever is the next election, you vote agianst his party.

and we have just play alternating rubbish governments for the rest of eternity because voting every 5 years is the epitamy of 'democracy' and the people feel like they've done their best, when all they've really done is re-enforced the system that is in itself the problem.

The people who march on the streets or blockade airports to protest against the war are far more politicised than the life long voter, and it is through these movements that the only real solution lies.

jmayo

Akrasia wrote: »

I expect specifics that can constitute a mandate.
eg, if I am elected, I will spend all my resources on working for specific projects or goals.
Clearly identifiable targets and proposals that I can agree with or disagree with.
Not one piece of campaign literature I have received have had anything that could even remotely be described as a specific goal or proposal.

You are accusing me of failing to act responsibly by not voting, But I accuse you of failing to take responsibility for your own vote. If you elect someone on the basis that they're not in FF, and then they turn out to be even more corrupt or incompetent than the government they replaced, will you accept your responsibility for electing this guy that you knew nothing about?

or will you just go on about the duty to vote, no matter what the consequences are.


and we have just play alternating rubbish governments for the rest of eternity because voting every 5 years is the epitamy of 'democracy' and the people feel like they've done their best, when all they've really done is re-enforced the system that is in itself the problem.

The people who march on the streets or blockade airports to protest against the war are far more politicised than the life long voter, and it is through these movements that the only real solution lies.

So your solution is lets protest on the streets, maybe have a riot or two ?
Perhaps you shoudl move to France.
SAdly we Irish don't do that type of thing, no matter how much we are shafted.

Meanwhile you refuse to vote becuase you don't get enough answers in their manifesto and you can't yank them out of power immediately if they displease you ?

If whoever gets in next screw up and are as big a bunch of chancers as the current shower I will vote against them.
Don't worry I am one of the few that does accept responsiblity for my actions, another rare occurrence in Ireland.

But, you are making an assumption that they are going to be as big a bunch of chancers as the current shower. At least the other main parties appear to have some half decent honest individuals who appear to give a f**k and I reckon they deserve a chance.

Meanwhile you sit on the ditch and lament the fact that there is no one there who tweeks your fancy ?

Tarzan007

Can not blame anyone for not voting, but I'll drag myself along :rolleyes: