'Hybrid' Dogs .... WARNING

babystrawberry

I have noticed in recent months there has been a ridiculous increase in the amount of people breeding and selling their so called 'Hybrid' dogs :mad:.

Hybrids dogs are not a breed of a dog, they are a mixture ......essentially the same as what you would get if people choose to go to their local/county dog shelter / sanctuary. These dogs are also a mixture of breeds, the only thing being in that there would not be a paper record of the breeding (which these days is not always given by most breeders either!), however it can be very easy to decipher what cross of breeding there would be from the dogs appearance. (Also note that there are often pedigree breeds to be rehomed in these facilities, not just crossbreeds)

Also these shelters/pounds do not charge a ridiculous amount of money for their pups at most there would be a request for a small donation. It is very infuriating to see people charging amounts like 400 Euros for a pup like a 'shih Tzu x yorkie poo' :mad:. There are 3 different breeds in this pups ancestry already!!!!! This person is charging 400 EUROs for god’s sake, the pup cannot even be registered with the IKC as a pure bred dog. This is not the only ad I have seen, there has been many people looking for ridiculous money for these so called 'designer breeds'. Also Jackchi's (Jack russell terrier crossed with chihuahua) The Jack Russell is itself not even recognised with the IKC and more than likely never will be, they are not IKC reg.

The main problem I have with the hybrids is that, in effect, people are breeding mongrels, which in effect will lead to a possible increase in the amount of unwanted puppies/ strays in the next few years.

If a person decides they still want to purchase this type of dog, they should first ask for a copy of the breeding of the parents(generally if they are pedigree they will have 5 generations of pedigree recorded, from this you will be able to see first off all has there been any inbreeding already done, breeding dogs that are related to each other is very common in the apparent ‘pedigree world’ ad can lead to an increase in the occurance of hereditary diseases). Also research the breeds of the parents of the pups. Look up any illnesses/diseases these breeds are prone to … Example: Pugalier is a Pug crossed with a Cavalier King Charles: Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are prone to MVD (metral valve disease) heart murmurs and also a disease called Syringomyelia (disease of brain and spinal cord causing the dog extreme pain). Also Pugs are prone to Encephalitis, this is an inflammatory, hip dysplasia, severe problems with their back and knees, breathing problems due to their flattened nose. A future owner of a Pugalier should take into consideration all these problems that may be passed on from the parents.
MOST IMPORTANT: no person buying a dog, whether they are pure bred or ‘hybrid’ should buy without getting a vet/health certificate from the breeder. The pup may look happy, playful and healthy, but there are a lot of problems that can only be found by a vet, such as heart murmurs, bad hip score, cleft palate, mal formed knee/hip joints.

I hope this opens the eyes of some people out there and help them be more aware in the future when buying dogs.

PirateShampoo

If someone is willing to pay 400 euro for a mongrel when they can get the same down the dog shelter for free then leave them to it.

Im selling magic beans if anybody is intrested.

Hellrazer

While I do agree its absolutely outrageous for a breeder to charge 400+ euros for what effectively a "mongrel"--(I hate the use of that term) I do think you need to rethink some of your post especially regarding the health effects of so called cross breeding.

The general thought is that pedigrees have more health issues than "mongrels" due to inbreeding from the same lineage and mongrels usually live a lot longer.I have personal experience with both and any "mongrel" Ive ever had,had a lot less health issues than any pedigree Ive ever owned.

Its also generally accepted that introducing a new set of genetics into offspring whether that be pedigree or non pedigree may stop some of these inheirited conditions.

So in saying that your example of a pugalier may never have any of the conditions that show up in a Pug or a Cavalier.

Just my 2 cents on it.

andreac

The thing is if there wasnt a market there for these pups people wouldnt be producing them.
These so called designer breeds seem to be the in thing, but people are very silly to be paying big money for a mongrel/crossbreed really.

But as you say, if someone is willing to hand over 400 for these pups, them let them off!!!

Hellrazer

PirateShampoo wrote: »

If someone is willing to pay 400 euro for a mongrel when they can get the same down the dog shelter for free then leave them to it.

Lets not go down the Pedigree versus Rescue again.Every thread here seems to decend in to a debate about it.

There was a thread here not so long ago about Puggles I think they were called.

Its a different story going in to pick up a mongrel in a pound when you havent a clue what breeds its made up of(labrador cross great dane anyone--I had one that looked tiny as a pub but ended up huge and nuts) than a breeder breeding a "cross breed" where you can tell what its going to look like when it gets older(puggles--small terrier sized and supposedly quite affectionate)

Risarow

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Im selling magic beans if anybody is intrested.

How much for the beans?

You have to admit it's a wonderful marketing strategy. Mix two or more breeds to create a mongrel with an interesting name and the sell it to people with more money than sense.

Anyone for fresh mountain air? I sell it by the jar.

babystrawberry

I totally agree with all your comments, there is a posible chance that hereditary illneses will not be passed onto pups if there is new line brought into the breeding ....it is just the breeders who are doing this that really annoy me, the money they charge :eek:
Also apologies if people find the word 'mongrel' not exactly the right term ...cross breed is probably the better term. I have a mongrel/cross breed myself (lurcher whippet type) and just cannot understand why peole do not choose the rehoming option as opposed to giving these breeders money

Still as you said AndreaC, there seems to be a demand for these 'hybrids', so they will continue to be bred

Hellrazer

Risarow wrote: »

You have to admit it's a wonderful marketing strategy. Mix two or more breeds to create a mongrel with an interesting name and the sell it to people with more money than sense.

Have you even bothered--actually has anyone even bothered to research these so called "designer breeds"

In my opinion there is a difference between these and a so called "mongrel"

Firstly the cross is well controlled ie the dogs are chosen for particular traits-size,temperament,the way they look etc.

Btw does any of this sound familiar to people that breed "pedigrees"--Its exactly the same as how we got so many different so called "breeds" since all so called breeds are decended from a single common ancestor and the reason they split into so many breeds is because of exactly what these so called designer breeders are doing.


Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

In the common "mongrel" it could be any mix or match of any breed.So there is a difference in my opinion.

sorella

Has the old name "Heinz dog" died out? As in Heinz 57 varieties?

Some of the old ones here say,"Well he wouldn't get his papers"

Hellrazer

sorella wrote: »

Has the old name "Heinz dog" died out? As in Heinz 57 varieties?

Some of the old ones here say,"Well he wouldn't get his papers"

So youre saying a heinz dog with 57 varieties is the same as a carefully bred for want of a better word "Hybrid"

sorella

Hellrazer wrote: »

So youre saying a heinz dog with 57 varieties is the same as a carefully bred for want of a better word "Hybrid"

peasant

Hellrazer wrote: »

Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

...and then the inbreeding and line breeding will start to "fix" the standard, the breed will be shown, only a small amount of show winners will breed and there we are again , yet another sickly breed.

O'Coonassa

Pedigree dogs are far more sickly and prone to serious illness than ordinary mutts/mongrels/hybrids. For some reason though the unhealthy ones are more expensive than the crossbreeds.

ISDW

My issue with it though is people breeding two different breeds that haven't been health tested etc, it may well have been an accidental mating and then calling them by some wonderful made up name. All breeds started off by crossbreeding, of course they did, but only by these breeders keeping proper records, will these dogs go on to become a recognised breed.

Ruby Soho

Many people seem to think that by crossing two pedigrees to get a cross, you get a dog with what's called 'hybrid vigour'. While this has been seen to be true in many cases concerning the common mutt, or heinz 57 variety, it holds no truth when you breed two probably inbred pedigree dogs together, you actually could end up with a pup that's as genetically deformed or wanting as its parents.
I have PERSONALLY seen many of these genetic problems and diseases occurring in many 400 euro designer hybrid, probably as much as in the original pedigree dogs. As they get older (most intentionally crossed dogs are still only young animals) I'm sure I'll see plenty more.
While it would be nice, I'm not saying for a minute that everyone should get a dog from the pound or you'll go to hell, but I just hope that people realise that these crossbreeds do not have an infallible health record, contrary to the claims of their 'responsible' breeders.

Morganna

Most crossbred /mongrels are interbred if u think about it .For example where i live there is a collie called bob who has mated with every unprotected bitch around for miles .Then his offspring are mating each other and he is mating his daughters think about it .

cloudy day

I know what I'd like to give that collie.

cloudy day

Hellraer I agree

I cannot understand why people get so bent out of shape over hybrids. If you don't want one fine, don't buy it.

It's just not good enough anymore to use the " pedigree" argument, it's got more holes than fishnets.

And they are NOT mongrels, They are called HYBRIDS for a reason as they are a Hybridisation of two or more "breeds" F1, F2 etc. Please do your research guys and learn a bit about it to back up your arguments. I'm not a scientist or a vet but I do take the time to study from time to time.

The same thing has been done to cattle, sheep, pigs and horses, for a very good readon. Why not dogs?

Anyway, how do you think the " PEDIGREE BREEDS " came about in the first place. And further more, in this day and age can anyone tell me what is so special about the kennel club in the light of recent publicity to tell most of us what we already knew.

If you can not scientifically say for a FACT, that is years of research or veterinary experience to back you up, that there is absolutely no way hybrids are healthier than the pedigree's then really it should not be said.

Risarow

Hellrazer wrote: »

Have you even bothered--actually has anyone even bothered to research these so called "designer breeds"

In my opinion there is a difference between these and a so called "mongrel"

Firstly the cross is well controlled ie the dogs are chosen for particular traits-size,temperament,the way they look etc.

Btw does any of this sound familiar to people that breed "pedigrees"--Its exactly the same as how we got so many different so called "breeds" since all so called breeds are decended from a single common ancestor and the reason they split into so many breeds is because of exactly what these so called designer breeders are doing.


Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

In the common "mongrel" it could be any mix or match of any breed.So there is a difference in my opinion.

Dogs were domesticated as a working animal and most of the cross breeding was done to improve the attributes of any given species, to make it faster, better at flushing, at tracking etc. etc
When dogs are bred to improve their name then questions have to be asked.

Arcadian

Risarow wrote: »

When dogs are bred to improve their name then questions have to be asked.

Which is the only reason these dogs are produced, it's all in the name. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

Magenta

Hellrazer wrote: »

So in saying that your example of a pugalier may never have any of the conditions that show up in a Pug or a Cavalier.

Pugs and Cavaliers are both plagued with health problems.
Just because the parent dogs are two different breeds doesn't mean you're magically going to have healthy pups.
Mixing mucky water from one cup with mucky water from another cup gives you... mucky water.

cloudy day

Hellrazer wrote: »

Have you even bothered--actually has anyone even bothered to research these so called "designer breeds"

In my opinion there is a difference between these and a so called "mongrel"

Firstly the cross is well controlled ie the dogs are chosen for particular traits-size,temperament,the way they look etc.

Btw does any of this sound familiar to people that breed "pedigrees"--Its exactly the same as how we got so many different so called "breeds" since all so called breeds are decended from a single common ancestor and the reason they split into so many breeds is because of exactly what these so called designer breeders are doing.


Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

In the common "mongrel" it could be any mix or match of any breed.So there is a difference in my opinion.

Arcadian wrote: »

Which is the only reason these dogs are produced, it's all in the name. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

Do you mean name as in say pugalier. ? Maybe people like say a shihtzu x as it still looks cute, is small, and doesn't need all that grooming that comes with the long coat.

Call me Socket

babystrawberry wrote: »

The Jack Russell is itself not even recognised with the IKC and more than likely never will be, they are not IKC reg.

The JRT is actually recognised by the IKC...I think since around 2004...(?) The name changed to the Parson Russell Terrier cos 2 types of JRT developed, but now they're both recognised as seperate breeds.

http://www.fci.be/nomenclature.aspx
http://ikc.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=17&Itemid=32

sorella

We have a Jack Russell/basset cross; clearly accidental. The mother was dumped when she was in pup - not our bitch; we rescued one of the pups.

We see only the attributes of those breeds; she has the bounce of the jack Russell with the weight and face of the Basset. So she bounces as high as my head. And her nose is pure hound; she stands for long whiles sniffing the air, her nose twitching like a rabbit.

sorella

From the look of many dogs around Glencolumcille, there is a jack Russell with a similar range......

cloudy day wrote: »

I know what I'd like to give that collie.

cloudy day

sorella wrote: »

We have a Jack Russell/basset cross; clearly accidental. The mother was dumped when she was in pup - not our bitch; we rescued one of the pups.

We see only the attributes of those breeds; she has the bounce of the jack Russell with the weight and face of the Basset. So she bounces as high as my head. And her nose is pure hound; she stands for long whiles sniffing the air, her nose twitching like a rabbit.

awh, I'd say she's gorgeous, any chance of a pic.

and way more healthy than a pure basset I'd wager. God did anyone see the one on the ped dogs program. I felt so sorry for that poor dog with all that skin.

Fighting Irish

I've never understood why people care if a dog is pedigree or mongrel, unless you want to enter a dog in competitions or whatever

I know i'd prefer for my mother to be black and father be white than my mother and father being siblings

cloudy day

I think it's just personal differences. Like what's already been discussed in other posts on the same topi in the past. Why do people like diff models of cars. Diff breeds of horses.

We all like different things to each other.

some of us are bad about the way certain dogs look . Guess it's a lurve thing.

sorella

If you teach me slowly how to put photos up; she is on the one I tried to put up on the thread about Sandy last week.. the one about the breakthough.

We thought she was part dachshund at first; but her "basset face" is quite unmistakable. Not huge wrinkles, just the expressiion.

cloudy day wrote: »

awh, I'd say she's gorgeous, any chance of a pic.

and way more healthy than a pure basset I'd wager. God did anyone see the one on the ped dogs program. I felt so sorry for that poor dog with all that skin.

The Sweeper

There's a big feral pig problem in Australia, and lots of people who are interested in that sort of thing go wild pig hunting.

Virtually all of them use dogs as well as knives/guns when they go hunting. Practically none of them use pure-bred dogs - in fact, some hunters will laugh at others who use pure breeds.

Part of being a 'hobby hunter' is breeding your own perfect pig-dog, one with a good nose, the ability to flush prey out of dense areas, a tough hide to resist running through brambles, the intelligence and bravery to go for the biggest boar in the pig herd as opposed to going for the females and piglets, and the power to latch onto one ear of the pig and hold it until the hunter arrives.

They cross everything from great danes to borzois and kelpies, some of the bull breeds, pointers, mastiffs - they mix and match until then end up with a huge dog with a barrell chest, long legs for speed, powerful jaws, with a nose like a blood hound and the persistent intelligence of a terrier.

They don't 'label' their crosses as anything other than 'pig dog', but they certainly cross pure breeds in an effort to create a hybrid with specific traits of each breed.

katexox

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud