'Hybrid' Dogs .... WARNING

onthemove

Magenta wrote: »

Why would you buy a Pugalier if you didn't want the hassle of loads of pups?

1 puppy=yap
6 puppies=yap yap yap yap yap yap
if i wanted one id buy it not buy two dogs and breed them

Call me Socket

onthemove wrote: »

i meant youd buy one dog not two to breed to get it...dog breeders don't make a profit?!

Erm....it wasn't me who originally said that....:)

Magenta

onthemove wrote: »

im not a scientist here but if you bred a dog with a high susceptibility towards getting a specific cancer(they are not all the same strangely enough wouldnt life be easier that way) with a dog with a high susceptibility towards another specific type of cancer or disease it cuts the chances in half of developing that specific disease compared to two dogs with the same tendency towards a disease now that is common sense...but dont tell the dog breeders i said that they mite breed a dog that can wee on me from miles away!!

Please explain yourself? How, if both a dog's parents have a family history of cancer, does that mean the dog is less likely to develop it than if only one of his parents had it?

PS I am a scientist so will be well equipped for whatever extensive terminology you have.

cloudy day

God why don't ye just leave the woman alone. If she wants it why shouldn't she have it. As long as she buy's it from the proper place and follows protocol.

onthemove

Magenta wrote: »

Please explain yourself? How, if both a dog's parents have a family history of cancer, does that mean the dog is less likely to develop it than if only one of his parents had it?

PS I am a scientist so will be well equipped for whatever extensive terminology you have.

I feel a lie here because no1 a scientist in NO WAY would ever agree with breeding of so called pure bred dogs cause they wouldnt be very good if they did and secondly i should know i have had personal experience with this not with a dog but with my parents and myself...my mothers family have history of lung cancer and my fathers have breast cancer but if my fathers and my mothers had both had breast cancer my risk of that particular cancer....according to st vincents breast clinic would go up...obviously im at risk of getting both but not as much as if they were both the same type its in ur genes which type ur prone to....and to be honest i feel better walking around knowing im at a slightly high risk of getting breast cancer or lung cancer than a very high cance of getting one of them...i'm actually more of a cat person...but i think ill buy a mongrel now

onthemove

and obviously if you breed two dogs with cancer the pups will be more likely to get it than one wit and one without,thats another reason i dont believe you are scientist as you did not read my reply properly so i doubt you could read about the statistical chances of getting a disease

onthemove

cloudy day wrote: »

God why don't ye just leave the woman alone. If she wants it why shouldn't she have it. As long as she buy's it from the proper place and follows protocol.

Thank you....i feel i am gonna choke on pure bred dog hair the way it gets shoved down ur throat by some people but not a bichon frise apparently thay are comin off the production line with non shed coats too :eek:im still of the opinion no dogs should be bred on purpose untill the pounds are not full of healthy dogs being put asleep or a tax should be put on puppy sales that goes towards helping the dog homes

recedite

The term "hybrid" used to be a cross with something else, like a wolf.
These are mongrels, but prospective owners need not worry too much about all the breed specific diseases you mentioned.Mongrels are by definition NOT inbred.Its the person who wants a pedigree that should worry. My dog is a mongrel; brilliant temperament and no health problems.

babystrawberry wrote: »

I have noticed in recent months there has been a ridiculous increase in the amount of people breeding and selling their so called 'Hybrid' dogs :mad:.

Hybrids dogs are not a breed of a dog, they are a mixture ......essentially the same as what you would get if people choose to go to their local/county dog shelter / sanctuary. These dogs are also a mixture of breeds, the only thing being in that there would not be a paper record of the breeding (which these days is not always given by most breeders either!), however it can be very easy to decipher what cross of breeding there would be from the dogs appearance. (Also note that there are often pedigree breeds to be rehomed in these facilities, not just crossbreeds)

Also these shelters/pounds do not charge a ridiculous amount of money for their pups at most there would be a request for a small donation. It is very infuriating to see people charging amounts like 400 Euros for a pup like a 'shih Tzu x yorkie poo' :mad:. There are 3 different breeds in this pups ancestry already!!!!! This person is charging 400 EUROs for god’s sake, the pup cannot even be registered with the IKC as a pure bred dog. This is not the only ad I have seen, there has been many people looking for ridiculous money for these so called 'designer breeds'. Also Jackchi's (Jack russell terrier crossed with chihuahua) The Jack Russell is itself not even recognised with the IKC and more than likely never will be, they are not IKC reg.

The main problem I have with the hybrids is that, in effect, people are breeding mongrels, which in effect will lead to a possible increase in the amount of unwanted puppies/ strays in the next few years.

If a person decides they still want to purchase this type of dog, they should first ask for a copy of the breeding of the parents(generally if they are pedigree they will have 5 generations of pedigree recorded, from this you will be able to see first off all has there been any inbreeding already done, breeding dogs that are related to each other is very common in the apparent ‘pedigree world’ ad can lead to an increase in the occurance of hereditary diseases). Also research the breeds of the parents of the pups. Look up any illnesses/diseases these breeds are prone to … Example: Pugalier is a Pug crossed with a Cavalier King Charles: Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are prone to MVD (metral valve disease) heart murmurs and also a disease called Syringomyelia (disease of brain and spinal cord causing the dog extreme pain). Also Pugs are prone to Encephalitis, this is an inflammatory, hip dysplasia, severe problems with their back and knees, breathing problems due to their flattened nose. A future owner of a Pugalier should take into consideration all these problems that may be passed on from the parents.
MOST IMPORTANT: no person buying a dog, whether they are pure bred or ‘hybrid’ should buy without getting a vet/health certificate from the breeder. The pup may look happy, playful and healthy, but there are a lot of problems that can only be found by a vet, such as heart murmurs, bad hip score, cleft palate, mal formed knee/hip joints.

I hope this opens the eyes of some people out there and help them be more aware in the future when buying dogs.

onthemove

Thats true because i had a mongrel dog sice i was a few weeks old he was half sheep dog half something short and fat and i loved that dog because he was as smart as any pure bred dog and he was loyal he followed me everywhere and he lived till i was nearly 17 he had a heart attack due to his age but he never got sick once before he died and i used to feed him all sorts of sweets when i was a child,i never got another dog after that because i dont think itd be the same he only ever bit one person on the toe cause she hit me and he was a smelly scruffy dog but he was happy..people didnt like him cause he was such a mutt and my neighbour was gonna kill him once with a shovel but we sorted that well my dad did but that dog didnt have a fancy hole in its spine or over flat face and his life was as valuable to us as any other in our family we had to take the pictures down because no one ever got over it,its sad to lose a dog so why shortin their already short life span by breeding them so strictly?i wonder wat would happen if the humans let them just breed naturally wat would the natural dog look like???? :)my nanny has a miniature dashound that cant jump off the sofa as she hits her face because her legs are too short for her body!!!

onthemove

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

friendliness a trait?wish my bosses parents both had that one:D

Magenta

onthemove wrote: »

I feel a lie here because no1 a scientist in NO WAY would ever agree with breeding of so called pure bred dogs cause they wouldnt be very good if they did

Well my degree on my wall will prove you wrong there

Where in the entire thread did I say that I agree with the breeding of pure bred dogs?

ScumLord

onthemove wrote: »

i should know i have had personal experience with this not with a dog but with my parents and myself...my mothers family have history of lung cancer and my fathers have breast cancer but if my fathers and my mothers had both had breast cancer my risk of that particular cancer....according to st vincents breast clinic would go up...

The difference is your family hasn't been systimatically inbreed. These dogs are so far gone any new genetic material is going to be a help.

cloudy day

Also research the breeds of the parents of the pups. Look up any illnesses/diseases these breeds are prone to … Example: Pugalier is a Pug crossed with a Cavalier King Charles: Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are prone to MVD (metral valve disease) heart murmurs and also a disease called Syringomyelia (disease of brain and spinal cord causing the dog extreme pain). Also Pugs are prone to Encephalitis, this is an inflammatory, hip dysplasia, severe problems with their back and knees, breathing problems due to their flattened nose. A future owner of a Pugalier should take into consideration all these problems that may be passed on from the parents.

The pup may look happy, playful and healthy, but there are a lot of problems that can only be found by a vet, such as heart murmurs, bad hip score, cleft palate, mal formed knee/hip joints.

I hope this opens the eyes of some people out there and help them be more aware in the future when buying dogs.[/quote]

Babystrawberry

I'm a bit curious as to what relevant experience you have with dog's. Have you ever worked, shown,bred, owned various breeds or are you just a pet owner.

Time and again this debate comes up. But what is interesting is that you have outlined in your original post only a minority of the HEALTH problems that PEDIGREE bred dogs are plagued with.

So just on that basis your argument for buying a pedigree dog as opposed to a cross falls apart.

I don't agree with the train of thought that just because they are being sold for the same price as a pure bred it should be considered wrong. It's costs the same to breed them as it would the full bred.

If someone is foll enough to buy from puppy farmers in this day and age with all the info that posted to warn then ........ well a fool and his money.

Yes PF are breding these hybrids, but that's a totally different playing field. As a rule they don't sell to public so you can't see what goes on there. Mostly they sell to dealers and the pups go out of the country.

There are many small breeders out there who love their dogs and are genuinely interested in breeding and doing things right.

Afterall, without our ancestors first crossing these dogs and breeding, we would not have the breeds we have today.

babystrawberry

cloudy day wrote: »

Babystrawberry

I'm a bit curious as to what relevant experience you have with dog's. Have you ever worked, shown,bred, owned various breeds or are you just a pet owner.

Time and again this debate comes up. But what is interesting is that you have outlined in your original post only a minority of the HEALTH problems that PEDIGREE bred dogs are plagued with.

So just on that basis your argument for buying a pedigree dog as opposed to a cross falls apart.

I don't agree with the train of thought that just because they are being sold for the same price as a pure bred it should be considered wrong. It's costs the same to breed them as it would the full bred.

If someone is foll enough to buy from puppy farmers in this day and age with all the info that posted to warn then ........ well a fool and his money.

Yes PF are breding these hybrids, but that's a totally different playing field. As a rule they don't sell to public so you can't see what goes on there. Mostly they sell to dealers and the pups go out of the country.

There are many small breeders out there who love their dogs and are genuinely interested in breeding and doing things right.

Afterall, without our ancestors first crossing these dogs and breeding, we would not have the breeds we have today.[/quote]

Cloudy Day,

To answer your questions from above as to whether I am 'just' a pet owner (which seems to be looked on with a smirk from yourself :mad: ) and whether I have any actual relevant experience

I am not just a pet owner, our family have had dogs ALL my life, we had greyhounds for many years, right up to my early teens where my parents eventaully decided to 'get out' of the business ..not becuase of not being succsesfull because we were and our prefix is still out there in many of the dogs running today, but because of the nature of the 'industry' it had developed into. We kept the two bitches we had and they eventaully died due to old age, living well into their teens, something these days which is quite rare in racing greyhounds / brood bitches

I have had a Staffordshire Bull Terrier which I showed many years ago, she was unable to be bred from and I had no intention of doing so as would have been a danger to her. She suffered with her hips and knees as well as a skin condition which was later alleviated by changing her onto a lower protein diet

My mother has Cavalier King Charles, which I think from my own experience are an extremly gently breed but one that has been unfortunatly exploited too much in recent years. I am fully aware of the health problems associated with these breeds, some of which I mentioned in my original post. My mother has shown her Cavaliers on numerous occasions (and has also encountered friends returning favours with the rosettes in the show ring ..this is beside the fact and I am not going to go any further on this point)

My family have a Boarding Kennel and as you can imagine there is every type of dog comes our way, both mongrels/crossbreeds and pedigree dogs (from Great Danes to Yorkies) . I often help at home with the Boarding Kennels when I am home, and have come across my fair share of dogs and the 'illnesses/diseases' they are prone to ... AND I will point out that we have got many mongrels/crossbreeds that have had their fair share of illnesses ...but to be honest the occurance of this is a lot more frequent in Pedigree's. I am well aware of special diets, specific excercise , mainteenacne specific breeds require.

I DO NOT understand why you say I only mentioned a MINORITY of the health problems these dogs are prone to , if I was to list out every health problem the pedigree dogs had out there, surely this post would get a lot longer than it is already turning into!!

I am fully aware that PF's are selling on their 'produce' in bulk to dealers, which then in turn are shipped off to either europe/uk/States.
I am trying to point out to people who may be considering buying a 'designer breed' the true facts, they are lining money hungry PF's pockets ... I am not saying these people that buy these dogs are bad people, I am just trying to show facts that they might not understand / realise

Also I am well aware that our ancestors did this 'selective breeding' to develop dogs that were required for particular traits, we would not have these breeds to day if it was not for this (saying that it is shocking to see these breeds are so far removed now from what they originally looked like)

Do we want to continue to develop new breeds like the Cavachon's and Labradoodles, they in turn then being extensivley bred from and eventually being left with another breed of dog that is plagued with health problems

To finish, Cloudy Day, I now have a Lurcher that I rescued from a sacntaury. He is extremly healthy and I JUST have him as a pet, so to answer your query from earlier, I am a pet owner and always have been, despite the fact that I have also worked dogs/bred them and shown dogs

Despite the fact now that I will not breed my lurcher (he is neutered), I will not show him obviously as he is not a recognised breed(unless at the usual funs shows) and i do not 'work; him ... he is not being used for lamping/hunting I still do feel that I have more than enough of the 'relevant' experience you feel you needed to question me on (which i didnt think was relevant to thwe post at all tbh) This has clealy been got/learned from my hands on experience from them all my life

'Cloudy Day' it is possible for someone to be JUST a pet owner and do all the above you listed (work/show and breed) . I am more than aware that there are small breeders out there who are in it to enhance the breed, but unfortunalty I am also well aware that these are few and far apart

ScumLord

cloudy day wrote: »

a disease called Syringomyelia (disease of brain and spinal cord causing the dog extreme pain).

I don't think calling it a disease or even a condition when it relates to these small dogs is right. It's a side effect of breeders mutating the dogs body beyond it's limits. The dogs skull is simply too small for it's brain.

babystrawberry

cloudy day wrote: »

Time and again this debate comes up. But what is interesting is that you have outlined in your original post only a minority of the HEALTH problems that PEDIGREE bred dogs are plagued with.

Also, any of the health problems I listed in my original post is information that is widely available should someone decide to 'google' it

cloudy day

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think calling it a disease or even a condition when it relates to these small dogs is right. It's a side effect of breeders mutating the dogs body beyond it's limits. The dogs skull is simply too small for it's brain.

Not my origional quote I just used it to make a point.

cloudy day

babystrawberry wrote: »

Babystrawberry

I'm a bit curious as to what relevant experience you have with dog's. Have you ever worked, shown,bred, owned various breeds or are you just a pet owner.

Time and again this debate comes up. But what is interesting is that you have outlined in your original post only a minority of the HEALTH problems that PEDIGREE bred dogs are plagued with.

So just on that basis your argument for buying a pedigree dog as opposed to a cross falls apart.

I don't agree with the train of thought that just because they are being sold for the same price as a pure bred it should be considered wrong. It's costs the same to breed them as it would the full bred.

If someone is foll enough to buy from puppy farmers in this day and age with all the info that posted to warn then ........ well a fool and his money.

Yes PF are breding these hybrids, but that's a totally different playing field. As a rule they don't sell to public so you can't see what goes on there. Mostly they sell to dealers and the pups go out of the country.

There are many small breeders out there who love their dogs and are genuinely interested in breeding and doing things right.

Afterall, without our ancestors first crossing these dogs and breeding, we would not have the breeds we have today.

Cloudy Day,

To answer your questions from above as to whether I am 'just' a pet owner (which seems to be looked on with a smirk from yourself :mad: ) and whether I have any actual relevant experience

I am not just a pet owner, our family have had dogs ALL my life, we had greyhounds for many years, right up to my early teens where my parents eventaully decided to 'get out' of the business ..not becuase of not being succsesfull because we were and our prefix is still out there in many of the dogs running today, but because of the nature of the 'industry' it had developed into. We kept the two bitches we had and they eventaully died due to old age, living well into their teens, something these days which is quite rare in racing greyhounds / brood bitches

I have had a Staffordshire Bull Terrier which I showed many years ago, she was unable to be bred from and I had no intention of doing so as would have been a danger to her. She suffered with her hips and knees as well as a skin condition which was later alleviated by changing her onto a lower protein diet

My mother has Cavalier King Charles, which I think from my own experience are an extremly gently breed but one that has been unfortunatly exploited too much in recent years. I am fully aware of the health problems associated with these breeds, some of which I mentioned in my original post. My mother has shown her Cavaliers on numerous occasions (and has also encountered friends returning favours with the rosettes in the show ring ..this is beside the fact and I am not going to go any further on this point)

My family have a Boarding Kennel and as you can imagine there is every type of dog comes our way, both mongrels/crossbreeds and pedigree dogs (from Great Danes to Yorkies) . I often help at home with the Boarding Kennels when I am home, and have come across my fair share of dogs and the 'illnesses/diseases' they are prone to ... AND I will point out that we have got many mongrels/crossbreeds that have had their fair share of illnesses ...but to be honest the occurance of this is a lot more frequent in Pedigree's. I am well aware of special diets, specific excercise , mainteenacne specific breeds require.

I DO NOT understand why you say I only mentioned a MINORITY of the health problems these dogs are prone to , if I was to list out every health problem the pedigree dogs had out there, surely this post would get a lot longer than it is already turning into!!

I am fully aware that PF's are selling on their 'produce' in bulk to dealers, which then in turn are shipped off to either europe/uk/States.
I am trying to point out to people who may be considering buying a 'designer breed' the true facts, they are lining money hungry PF's pockets ... I am not saying these people that buy these dogs are bad people, I am just trying to show facts that they might not understand / realise

Also I am well aware that our ancestors did this 'selective breeding' to develop dogs that were required for particular traits, we would not have these breeds to day if it was not for this (saying that it is shocking to see these breeds are so far removed now from what they originally looked like)

Do we want to continue to develop new breeds like the Cavachon's and Labradoodles, they in turn then being extensivley bred from and eventually being left with another breed of dog that is plagued with health problems

To finish, Cloudy Day, I now have a Lurcher that I rescued from a sacntaury. He is extremly healthy and I JUST have him as a pet, so to answer your query from earlier, I am a pet owner and always have been, despite the fact that I have also worked dogs/bred them and shown dogs

Despite the fact now that I will not breed my lurcher (he is neutered), I will not show him obviously as he is not a recognised breed(unless at the usual funs shows) and i do not 'work; him ... he is not being used for lamping/hunting I still do feel that I have more than enough of the 'relevant' experience you feel you needed to question me on (which i didnt think was relevant to thwe post at all tbh) This has clealy been got/learned from my hands on experience from them all my life

'Cloudy Day' it is possible for someone to be JUST a pet owner and do all the above you listed (work/show and breed) . I am more than aware that there are small breeders out there who are in it to enhance the breed, but unfortunalty I am also well aware that these are few and far apart[/quote]

Hold on a minute there now. I did not infer that at all. You have jumped on my use of that word and taken it as a personal slight.

I did not put just in inverted comma's to infer it to mean anything.

The why I was curious was just in terms of discussion. Pure and simple.

I DO NOT understand why you say I only mentioned a MINORITY of the health problems these dogs are prone to ,

Because minority shows that there is a vast majority, far more than most people who are buying ped pups know. So if we discussed only a minority, what a mess they are in with the majority.

I am trying to point out to people who may be considering buying a 'designer breed' the true facts, they are lining money hungry PF's pockets ...

Not every one is a puppy farmer.

Also I am well aware that our ancestors did this 'selective breeding' to develop dogs that were required for particular traits, we would not have these breeds to day if it was not for this (saying that it is shocking to see these breeds are so far removed now from what they originally looked like)

Why wouldn't you. Who doesn't. the ref for this was obvious, this is how we got our breeds.

I still do feel that I have more than enough of the 'relevant' experience you feel you needed to question me on

Wasn't questioning you at all. Again this is your personal taken imaginery slight on a discussion which is going to get opinions from different angles.

On a final note, if you are upset then it is because you have chosen to take something out of context and use it in a mnner for which it was not intended. And if that is the impression you got then i apologise, just incase i may have worded something wrongly.

ScumLord

Why is everyone repeating their own usernames over and over in their posts? It's very confusing it looks like ye're arguing with yourselfs. please use quotes or your post makes absolutely no sense.

Magenta

Look at this... have you ever seen such rubbish... "secret ingredient"??

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/918763

And then we have the "Latest designer hybrid dog on the market"- what is it, a handbag?

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/902946

babystrawberry

Magenta wrote: »

Look at this... have you ever seen such rubbish... "secret ingredient"??

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/918763

And then we have the "Latest designer hybrid dog on the market"- what is it, a handbag?

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/902946

For gods sake, secret ingredient?? 'Designer Hybrid' ?? this is exactly what biols my blood :mad:

onthemove

babystrawberry wrote: »

For gods sake, secret ingredient?? 'Designer Hybrid' ?? this is exactly what biols my blood :mad:

I have to agree with you but nobody with a bit of sense would pay any notice to that kinda add and take it seriously,i actually saw that and thought it was a piss take if they are that desperate to sell the pups then they are not makin the money they thought they would

Orlaithc9

I really dont want to anger anyone of enrage the posters on here..but as a shih tzu owner and lover I can not see why people want to cross and buy this breed. They are beautiful and cheeky, charming and loving all by themselves. I am aware of health issues of this breed and many other predigrees but I am loyal to the breed and do not agree with "designer breeds" but each to their own I suppose.

Vinny my Shih Tzu
---->

olaola

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this - but insurance for x-breed dogs is lower than pedigree.

marlin vs

sorella wrote: »

Has the old name "Heinz dog" died out? As in Heinz 57 varieties?

Some of the old ones here say,"Well he wouldn't get his papers"

Or a thirty two county terrier.

funkyjebus

onthemove wrote: »

a tax should be put on puppy sales that goes towards helping the dog homes

As much as I hate taxes, I must say I think that's an excellant idea. Hard to enforce, but great.