'Hybrid' Dogs .... WARNING

Hellrazer

katexox wrote: »

im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

I think you should really learn to spell properly before using a statement like that one^^^^^

Maybe then I`ll take you seriously.

Risarow

Hellrazer wrote: »

I think you should really learn to spell properly before using a statement like that one^^^^^

Maybe then I`ll take you seriously.

Steady on Hellrazer, Disrespecting someone for using text speak, bad grammar or poor spelling is out of order.

Disrespecting someone for trolling is OK :D:D

cloudy day

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

If you actually take the time to read all of the posts from the beginning and then participate it the discussion you will see that "YE ALL" is a totally incorrect statement to come out with as WE ALL don't share the opnion that hybrid dogs are a bad thing.

cloudy day

Hellrazer wrote: »

I think you should really learn to spell properly before using a statement like that one^^^^^

Maybe then I`ll take you seriously.

:D

Hellrazer

Risarow wrote: »

Steady on Hellrazer, Disrespecting someone for using text speak, bad grammar or poor spelling is out of order.

Disrespecting someone for trolling is OK :D:D

i wasnt disrepecting them for that.........they come on here make out that we`re all stupid yet they cant even use full stops.....make or finish sentences.........or spell.........and Im supposed to take the post seriously.........sorry but I dont think so......if the post had been even attempted to be written in a more legible way I might have taken it seriously............with 15 years of life experience Im sure she does know a lot more than us lot :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Magenta

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait....im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

Tell me something.

I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer with another Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer. Therefore, I have a litter of purebred Labrador puppies with a genetic susceptibility to cancer.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that if I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer to a Poodle with a genetic susceptibility to cancer, I will have a litter of hybrid "Labradoodles" which will not have a genetic susceptibility to cancer?

At the end of the day, unhealthy parents will breed unhealthy puppies, no matter what breed they are.

At least vets won't have to worry about the recession with all these Pugaliers about

Morganna

Magenta wrote: »

Tell me something.

I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer with another Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer. Therefore, I have a litter of purebred Labrador puppies with a genetic susceptibility to cancer.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that if I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer to a Poodle with a genetic susceptibility to cancer, I will have a litter of hybrid "Labradoodles" which will not have a genetic susceptibility to cancer?

At the end of the day, unhealthy parents will breed unhealthy puppies, no matter what breed they are.

At least vets won't have to worry about the recession with all these Pugaliers about

Well said and well put Magneta .

Ruby Soho

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

Well, had you read my previous post, you will find that many of the 'hybrid' dogs are not health-problem free at all, they can be and commonly are just as badly affected than their parents. I've seen many many genetic diseases present in the dogs at a young age... would you like me to make a list of these diseases for you to make it easier for you to understand?
And yes, before you ask, I'm a qualified, registered veterinary nurse, I work full-time in a busy practice, and despite your long years on this earth and experience with the subject, I disagree, I most definitely know more than you on this one...
By the way, I can see that its your first post, not a great way to make friends by accusing us all of being stupid...

cloudy day

Ruby Soho wrote: »

Well, had you read my previous post, you will find that many of the 'hybrid' dogs are not health-problem free at all, they can be and commonly are just as badly affected than their parents. I've seen many many genetic diseases present in the dogs at a young age... would you like me to make a list of these diseases for you to make it easier for you to understand?
And yes, before you ask, I'm a qualified, registered veterinary nurse, I work full-time in a busy practice, and despite your long years on this earth and experience with the subject, I disagree, I most definitely know more than you on this one...
By the way, I can see that its your first post, not a great way to make friends by accusing us all of being stupid...

Yes I'd the list of proof. What breed's / hybrid's and what the health problem is pertaining to each. And did they come from puppy farms. Thanks, it's for personal research.

Aru

Geneticly the chances of a hybrid having as many problems as either of its pure bred parents is unlikely.

if you look up breeding genatics in large animals like Cattle or pigs you will find that crossbreeding of hybrids or Heterosis as its also known is often used in order to reduce the chance of unwanted traits eg genetic diseases...crossbreeding two animals animals does produce hybid vigour.

Each animal only has a certain amount of genes.
In an inbred animal more of these are alike and are more likely to throw up two reccesive genes causing a genetic disease...in a cross bred there are more optoions for each of the genes so the chances of a recessive disease occuring decreases.....
so by crossing two inbred animals from different lines you should tecnically get a healthier pup..well genetically anyway...
as our genetics lecturer pointed put Prince Charles is 12 and a half percent inbred but both his sons have hybrid vigour

Of course some diseases are prevalent across the pedigree breeds and they would be harder to eliminate...eg breeding an German shepard dog and a labrador may still leave you with offspring with hip dysplasia....but some of the genetic problems like Haemophelia(GSD prob more than lab) and other specific breed problems should be reduced in hybids..

for the record i do think that paying hudreds of pounds for a hybrid is madness!!
but at the same time there is a reason that the insurance premiums for crossbreeds are lower..overall they are healthier than purebreds...if they wernt the insurance would be the same...

jolo

Interesting views flying around here.

I got interested in 'hybrids' recently, not because of their 'interesting(?)' names (some of which I find a little nauseating) or their designer status, which I was completely naive about, but as I was considering getting a dog, was uncertain as to which breed but needed a dog that was reasonably hypoallergenic. I came across bichon frise X shih tzu and maltese x shih tzu both of which sounded interesting TO ME. I thought that increasing the mix in the gene pool would improve the health aspects of the dogs in my basic understanding of genetics. I have concerns not just about the near-inbreeding of pure breeds but also the other problems like breathing complications in dogs like Shih Tzus who are bred for the shortness of their muzzle. I haven't expressed that very well but I hope you catch my drift.

Foolishly I thought these cross breeds would be cheaper also as the lack of 'papers' etc would indicate but then I discovered they were hybrids and similar prices to the pure breds.
I'm still interested particularly iin the Maltese x Shih Tzu as the combined characteristics and the wider gene pool appeals to me.
Do you believe there are some scrupulous breeders of hybrids? Or at least breeders who care about and for their dogs? How to find them though?
Maybe some decent people saw a demand for a combination they could provide? Does anyone know of reputable breeders of hybrids(particularly Maltese x Shih Tzu (MaltiTzu???!!))?

I would genuinely like to get a dog from a welfare group and I've read that sometimesthey do have pure breds but I'd like a pup and I also need her to be fairly hypoallergenic and I'm not sure if there's anyway of being sure of that without getting a pure breed or a hybrid.

So some people are genuinely interested in pure breds and hybrids for their characteristics and not just their name or label. But thank you for your professional input on the complications that can still arise. I suppose there's always a danger when you're dealing with living things human or canine or otherwise?

cloudy day

Well put Jolo

I'm of the same vein of thought as yourself on Hybrids, and it's the reason's why I'm not against them.

I agree they are not cheaper, but having said that, I believe that someone who cares about their dogs and minds them right will not reduce the prices just to sell them quickly. There is a lot of work involved in breeding and raising pup's when they are done right.

andreac

Can i ask why you need to go for a cross? why cant you just get a pure bred dog that doesnt shed, like a bichon, poodle etc, why does it need to be a cross of any sort?

onthemove

ah but the cavachon its such a cutie:Dseriously though if the demand is there wats to say it is any worse than paying for pure bred dog?if you were lookin for a "pugalier" and didn't have the money for a pug and a king charles and didnt want the hassle of loads of pups you'd buy a pugalier its simple really,no one can make anyone pay money they don't want to pay for a dog...with the amount of dogs needing homes the debate should be weather or not breeding them at all is morally correct

Call me Socket

onthemove wrote: »

ah but the cavachon its such a cutie:Dseriously though if the demand is there wats to say it is any worse than paying for pure bred dog?if you were lookin for a "pugalier" and didn't have the money for a pug and a king charles and didnt want the hassle of loads of pups you'd buy a pugalier its simple really,no one can make anyone pay money they don't want to pay for a dog...with the amount of dogs needing homes the debate should be weather or not breeding them at all is morally correct

If you don't have the money for a Pug or a CKCS then you wouldn't have it for a Pugalier either. They're about the same price.
The problem with paying for these deliberately bred crossbreeds is that by doing so you are feeding demand for puppy farmers or puppy mills to fulfill, which means you are supporting them, albeit subconsciously. I reckon 90% of the people breeding those particular designer breeds are puppy farmers. The other 10% are dog owners who fancied giving breeding a try, or accidently allowed their bitch to fall pregnant.

ScumLord

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....

No they're bread for profit end of story.

Magenta

onthemove wrote: »

?if you were lookin for a "pugalier" and didn't have the money for a pug and a king charles and didnt want the hassle of loads of pups you'd buy a pugalier its simple really

Why would you buy a Pugalier if you didn't want the hassle of loads of pups?

babystrawberry

Call me Socket wrote: »

If you don't have the money for a Pug or a CKCS then you wouldn't have it for a Pugalier either. They're about the same price.
The problem with paying for these deliberately bred crossbreeds is that by doing so you are feeding demand for puppy farmers or puppy mills to fulfill, which means you are supporting them, albeit subconsciously. I reckon 90% of the people breeding those particular designer breeds are puppy farmers. The other 10% are dog owners who fancied giving breeding a try, or accidently allowed their bitch to fall pregnant.

This was the original point i was trying to get across in my first post here. Generally speaking it is the puppy farmers who are reaking the benefit from the hybrids, they are cossing their toy breeds that they already are using for breeding their pure breds, these hybrids will not be registered with the IKC

Generally speaking, when breeding a pure bred dog, you are only allowed to breed the bitch a certain amount of times (i think it is 6 or 7 maybe?) If you breed the bitch after this the IKC will not register them.

If a breeder wants to then breed this bitch to get a 'hybrid', there is no problem, they can go ahead and do so, pups will not be registered (as far as I know this is the case in Ireland)

I agree with all the posts that by introducing a new strain into the equation you MAY effectivley remove some of the problems associated with the pure breds BUT this will only happen if the parents are healthy on both sides.

onthemove

Magenta wrote: »

Tell me something.

I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer with another Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer. Therefore, I have a litter of purebred Labrador puppies with a genetic susceptibility to cancer.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that if I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer to a Poodle with a genetic susceptibility to cancer, I will have a litter of hybrid "Labradoodles" which will not have a genetic susceptibility to cancer?

At the end of the day, unhealthy parents will breed unhealthy puppies, no matter what breed they are.

At least vets won't have to worry about the recession with all these Pugaliers about

im not a scientist here but if you bred a dog with a high susceptibility towards getting a specific cancer(they are not all the same strangely enough wouldnt life be easier that way) with a dog with a high susceptibility towards another specific type of cancer or disease it cuts the chances in half of developing that specific disease compared to two dogs with the same tendency towards a disease now that is common sense...but dont tell the dog breeders i said that they mite breed a dog that can wee on me from miles away!!

onthemove

Call me Socket wrote: »

If you don't have the money for a Pug or a CKCS then you wouldn't have it for a Pugalier either. They're about the same price.
The problem with paying for these deliberately bred crossbreeds is that by doing so you are feeding demand for puppy farmers or puppy mills to fulfill, which means you are supporting them, albeit subconsciously. I reckon 90% of the people breeding those particular designer breeds are puppy farmers. The other 10% are dog owners who fancied giving breeding a try, or accidently allowed their bitch to fall pregnant.

i meant youd buy one dog not two to breed to get it...dog breeders don't make a profit?!thats news to me,gosh they must really like puppies!puppy farmers breed pure bred dogs too,its still putting two dogs together to make one puppy no matter what way you slice it its still dog breeding

onthemove

Magenta wrote: »

Why would you buy a Pugalier if you didn't want the hassle of loads of pups?

1 puppy=yap
6 puppies=yap yap yap yap yap yap
if i wanted one id buy it not buy two dogs and breed them

Call me Socket

onthemove wrote: »

i meant youd buy one dog not two to breed to get it...dog breeders don't make a profit?!

Erm....it wasn't me who originally said that....:)

Magenta

onthemove wrote: »

im not a scientist here but if you bred a dog with a high susceptibility towards getting a specific cancer(they are not all the same strangely enough wouldnt life be easier that way) with a dog with a high susceptibility towards another specific type of cancer or disease it cuts the chances in half of developing that specific disease compared to two dogs with the same tendency towards a disease now that is common sense...but dont tell the dog breeders i said that they mite breed a dog that can wee on me from miles away!!

Please explain yourself? How, if both a dog's parents have a family history of cancer, does that mean the dog is less likely to develop it than if only one of his parents had it?

PS I am a scientist so will be well equipped for whatever extensive terminology you have.

cloudy day

God why don't ye just leave the woman alone. If she wants it why shouldn't she have it. As long as she buy's it from the proper place and follows protocol.

onthemove

Magenta wrote: »

Please explain yourself? How, if both a dog's parents have a family history of cancer, does that mean the dog is less likely to develop it than if only one of his parents had it?

PS I am a scientist so will be well equipped for whatever extensive terminology you have.

I feel a lie here because no1 a scientist in NO WAY would ever agree with breeding of so called pure bred dogs cause they wouldnt be very good if they did and secondly i should know i have had personal experience with this not with a dog but with my parents and myself...my mothers family have history of lung cancer and my fathers have breast cancer but if my fathers and my mothers had both had breast cancer my risk of that particular cancer....according to st vincents breast clinic would go up...obviously im at risk of getting both but not as much as if they were both the same type its in ur genes which type ur prone to....and to be honest i feel better walking around knowing im at a slightly high risk of getting breast cancer or lung cancer than a very high cance of getting one of them...i'm actually more of a cat person...but i think ill buy a mongrel now

onthemove

and obviously if you breed two dogs with cancer the pups will be more likely to get it than one wit and one without,thats another reason i dont believe you are scientist as you did not read my reply properly so i doubt you could read about the statistical chances of getting a disease

onthemove

cloudy day wrote: »

God why don't ye just leave the woman alone. If she wants it why shouldn't she have it. As long as she buy's it from the proper place and follows protocol.

Thank you....i feel i am gonna choke on pure bred dog hair the way it gets shoved down ur throat by some people but not a bichon frise apparently thay are comin off the production line with non shed coats too :eek:im still of the opinion no dogs should be bred on purpose untill the pounds are not full of healthy dogs being put asleep or a tax should be put on puppy sales that goes towards helping the dog homes

recedite

The term "hybrid" used to be a cross with something else, like a wolf.
These are mongrels, but prospective owners need not worry too much about all the breed specific diseases you mentioned.Mongrels are by definition NOT inbred.Its the person who wants a pedigree that should worry. My dog is a mongrel; brilliant temperament and no health problems.

babystrawberry wrote: »

I have noticed in recent months there has been a ridiculous increase in the amount of people breeding and selling their so called 'Hybrid' dogs :mad:.

Hybrids dogs are not a breed of a dog, they are a mixture ......essentially the same as what you would get if people choose to go to their local/county dog shelter / sanctuary. These dogs are also a mixture of breeds, the only thing being in that there would not be a paper record of the breeding (which these days is not always given by most breeders either!), however it can be very easy to decipher what cross of breeding there would be from the dogs appearance. (Also note that there are often pedigree breeds to be rehomed in these facilities, not just crossbreeds)

Also these shelters/pounds do not charge a ridiculous amount of money for their pups at most there would be a request for a small donation. It is very infuriating to see people charging amounts like 400 Euros for a pup like a 'shih Tzu x yorkie poo' :mad:. There are 3 different breeds in this pups ancestry already!!!!! This person is charging 400 EUROs for god’s sake, the pup cannot even be registered with the IKC as a pure bred dog. This is not the only ad I have seen, there has been many people looking for ridiculous money for these so called 'designer breeds'. Also Jackchi's (Jack russell terrier crossed with chihuahua) The Jack Russell is itself not even recognised with the IKC and more than likely never will be, they are not IKC reg.

The main problem I have with the hybrids is that, in effect, people are breeding mongrels, which in effect will lead to a possible increase in the amount of unwanted puppies/ strays in the next few years.

If a person decides they still want to purchase this type of dog, they should first ask for a copy of the breeding of the parents(generally if they are pedigree they will have 5 generations of pedigree recorded, from this you will be able to see first off all has there been any inbreeding already done, breeding dogs that are related to each other is very common in the apparent ‘pedigree world’ ad can lead to an increase in the occurance of hereditary diseases). Also research the breeds of the parents of the pups. Look up any illnesses/diseases these breeds are prone to … Example: Pugalier is a Pug crossed with a Cavalier King Charles: Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are prone to MVD (metral valve disease) heart murmurs and also a disease called Syringomyelia (disease of brain and spinal cord causing the dog extreme pain). Also Pugs are prone to Encephalitis, this is an inflammatory, hip dysplasia, severe problems with their back and knees, breathing problems due to their flattened nose. A future owner of a Pugalier should take into consideration all these problems that may be passed on from the parents.
MOST IMPORTANT: no person buying a dog, whether they are pure bred or ‘hybrid’ should buy without getting a vet/health certificate from the breeder. The pup may look happy, playful and healthy, but there are a lot of problems that can only be found by a vet, such as heart murmurs, bad hip score, cleft palate, mal formed knee/hip joints.

I hope this opens the eyes of some people out there and help them be more aware in the future when buying dogs.

onthemove

Thats true because i had a mongrel dog sice i was a few weeks old he was half sheep dog half something short and fat and i loved that dog because he was as smart as any pure bred dog and he was loyal he followed me everywhere and he lived till i was nearly 17 he had a heart attack due to his age but he never got sick once before he died and i used to feed him all sorts of sweets when i was a child,i never got another dog after that because i dont think itd be the same he only ever bit one person on the toe cause she hit me and he was a smelly scruffy dog but he was happy..people didnt like him cause he was such a mutt and my neighbour was gonna kill him once with a shovel but we sorted that well my dad did but that dog didnt have a fancy hole in its spine or over flat face and his life was as valuable to us as any other in our family we had to take the pictures down because no one ever got over it,its sad to lose a dog so why shortin their already short life span by breeding them so strictly?i wonder wat would happen if the humans let them just breed naturally wat would the natural dog look like???? :)my nanny has a miniature dashound that cant jump off the sofa as she hits her face because her legs are too short for her body!!!

onthemove

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

friendliness a trait?wish my bosses parents both had that one:D