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'Hybrid' Dogs .... WARNING
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I feel a lie here because no1 a scientist in NO WAY would ever agree with breeding of so called pure bred dogs cause they wouldnt be very good if they did
Well my degree on my wall will prove you wrong there
Where in the entire thread did I say that I agree with the breeding of pure bred dogs?0 -
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cloudy day wrote: »
Babystrawberry
I'm a bit curious as to what relevant experience you have with dog's. Have you ever worked, shown,bred, owned various breeds or are you just a pet owner.
Time and again this debate comes up. But what is interesting is that you have outlined in your original post only a minority of the HEALTH problems that PEDIGREE bred dogs are plagued with.
So just on that basis your argument for buying a pedigree dog as opposed to a cross falls apart.
I don't agree with the train of thought that just because they are being sold for the same price as a pure bred it should be considered wrong. It's costs the same to breed them as it would the full bred.
If someone is foll enough to buy from puppy farmers in this day and age with all the info that posted to warn then ........ well a fool and his money.
Yes PF are breding these hybrids, but that's a totally different playing field. As a rule they don't sell to public so you can't see what goes on there. Mostly they sell to dealers and the pups go out of the country.
There are many small breeders out there who love their dogs and are genuinely interested in breeding and doing things right.
Afterall, without our ancestors first crossing these dogs and breeding, we would not have the breeds we have today.[/quote]
Cloudy Day,
To answer your questions from above as to whether I am 'just' a pet owner (which seems to be looked on with a smirk from yourself :mad: ) and whether I have any actual relevant experience
I am not just a pet owner, our family have had dogs ALL my life, we had greyhounds for many years, right up to my early teens where my parents eventaully decided to 'get out' of the business ..not becuase of not being succsesfull because we were and our prefix is still out there in many of the dogs running today, but because of the nature of the 'industry' it had developed into. We kept the two bitches we had and they eventaully died due to old age, living well into their teens, something these days which is quite rare in racing greyhounds / brood bitches
I have had a Staffordshire Bull Terrier which I showed many years ago, she was unable to be bred from and I had no intention of doing so as would have been a danger to her. She suffered with her hips and knees as well as a skin condition which was later alleviated by changing her onto a lower protein diet
My mother has Cavalier King Charles, which I think from my own experience are an extremly gently breed but one that has been unfortunatly exploited too much in recent years. I am fully aware of the health problems associated with these breeds, some of which I mentioned in my original post. My mother has shown her Cavaliers on numerous occasions (and has also encountered friends returning favours with the rosettes in the show ring ..this is beside the fact and I am not going to go any further on this point)
My family have a Boarding Kennel and as you can imagine there is every type of dog comes our way, both mongrels/crossbreeds and pedigree dogs (from Great Danes to Yorkies) . I often help at home with the Boarding Kennels when I am home, and have come across my fair share of dogs and the 'illnesses/diseases' they are prone to ... AND I will point out that we have got many mongrels/crossbreeds that have had their fair share of illnesses ...but to be honest the occurance of this is a lot more frequent in Pedigree's. I am well aware of special diets, specific excercise , mainteenacne specific breeds require.
I DO NOT understand why you say I only mentioned a MINORITY of the health problems these dogs are prone to
, if I was to list out every health problem the pedigree dogs had out there, surely this post would get a lot longer than it is already turning into!!
I am fully aware that PF's are selling on their 'produce' in bulk to dealers, which then in turn are shipped off to either europe/uk/States.
I am trying to point out to people who may be considering buying a 'designer breed' the true facts, they are lining money hungry PF's pockets ... I am not saying these people that buy these dogs are bad people, I am just trying to show facts that they might not understand / realise
Also I am well aware that our ancestors did this 'selective breeding' to develop dogs that were required for particular traits, we would not have these breeds to day if it was not for this (saying that it is shocking to see these breeds are so far removed now from what they originally looked like)
Do we want to continue to develop new breeds like the Cavachon's and Labradoodles, they in turn then being extensivley bred from and eventually being left with another breed of dog that is plagued with health problems
To finish, Cloudy Day, I now have a Lurcher that I rescued from a sacntaury. He is extremly healthy and I JUST have him as a pet, so to answer your query from earlier, I am a pet owner and always have been, despite the fact that I have also worked dogs/bred them and shown dogs
Despite the fact now that I will not breed my lurcher (he is neutered), I will not show him obviously as he is not a recognised breed(unless at the usual funs shows) and i do not 'work; him ... he is not being used for lamping/hunting I still do feel that I have more than enough of the 'relevant' experience you feel you needed to question me on (which i didnt think was relevant to thwe post at all tbh) This has clealy been got/learned from my hands on experience from them all my life
'Cloudy Day' it is possible for someone to be JUST a pet owner and do all the above you listed (work/show and breed) . I am more than aware that there are small breeders out there who are in it to enhance the breed, but unfortunalty I am also well aware that these are few and far apart0 -
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babystrawberry wrote: »Babystrawberry
I'm a bit curious as to what relevant experience you have with dog's. Have you ever worked, shown,bred, owned various breeds or are you just a pet owner.
Time and again this debate comes up. But what is interesting is that you have outlined in your original post only a minority of the HEALTH problems that PEDIGREE bred dogs are plagued with.
So just on that basis your argument for buying a pedigree dog as opposed to a cross falls apart.
I don't agree with the train of thought that just because they are being sold for the same price as a pure bred it should be considered wrong. It's costs the same to breed them as it would the full bred.
If someone is foll enough to buy from puppy farmers in this day and age with all the info that posted to warn then ........ well a fool and his money.
Yes PF are breding these hybrids, but that's a totally different playing field. As a rule they don't sell to public so you can't see what goes on there. Mostly they sell to dealers and the pups go out of the country.
There are many small breeders out there who love their dogs and are genuinely interested in breeding and doing things right.
Afterall, without our ancestors first crossing these dogs and breeding, we would not have the breeds we have today.
Cloudy Day,
To answer your questions from above as to whether I am 'just' a pet owner (which seems to be looked on with a smirk from yourself :mad: ) and whether I have any actual relevant experience
I am not just a pet owner, our family have had dogs ALL my life, we had greyhounds for many years, right up to my early teens where my parents eventaully decided to 'get out' of the business ..not becuase of not being succsesfull because we were and our prefix is still out there in many of the dogs running today, but because of the nature of the 'industry' it had developed into. We kept the two bitches we had and they eventaully died due to old age, living well into their teens, something these days which is quite rare in racing greyhounds / brood bitches
I have had a Staffordshire Bull Terrier which I showed many years ago, she was unable to be bred from and I had no intention of doing so as would have been a danger to her. She suffered with her hips and knees as well as a skin condition which was later alleviated by changing her onto a lower protein diet
My mother has Cavalier King Charles, which I think from my own experience are an extremly gently breed but one that has been unfortunatly exploited too much in recent years. I am fully aware of the health problems associated with these breeds, some of which I mentioned in my original post. My mother has shown her Cavaliers on numerous occasions (and has also encountered friends returning favours with the rosettes in the show ring ..this is beside the fact and I am not going to go any further on this point)
My family have a Boarding Kennel and as you can imagine there is every type of dog comes our way, both mongrels/crossbreeds and pedigree dogs (from Great Danes to Yorkies) . I often help at home with the Boarding Kennels when I am home, and have come across my fair share of dogs and the 'illnesses/diseases' they are prone to ... AND I will point out that we have got many mongrels/crossbreeds that have had their fair share of illnesses ...but to be honest the occurance of this is a lot more frequent in Pedigree's. I am well aware of special diets, specific excercise , mainteenacne specific breeds require.
I DO NOT understand why you say I only mentioned a MINORITY of the health problems these dogs are prone to, if I was to list out every health problem the pedigree dogs had out there, surely this post would get a lot longer than it is already turning into!!
I am fully aware that PF's are selling on their 'produce' in bulk to dealers, which then in turn are shipped off to either europe/uk/States.
I am trying to point out to people who may be considering buying a 'designer breed' the true facts, they are lining money hungry PF's pockets ... I am not saying these people that buy these dogs are bad people, I am just trying to show facts that they might not understand / realise
Also I am well aware that our ancestors did this 'selective breeding' to develop dogs that were required for particular traits, we would not have these breeds to day if it was not for this (saying that it is shocking to see these breeds are so far removed now from what they originally looked like)
Do we want to continue to develop new breeds like the Cavachon's and Labradoodles, they in turn then being extensivley bred from and eventually being left with another breed of dog that is plagued with health problems
To finish, Cloudy Day, I now have a Lurcher that I rescued from a sacntaury. He is extremly healthy and I JUST have him as a pet, so to answer your query from earlier, I am a pet owner and always have been, despite the fact that I have also worked dogs/bred them and shown dogs
Despite the fact now that I will not breed my lurcher (he is neutered), I will not show him obviously as he is not a recognised breed(unless at the usual funs shows) and i do not 'work; him ... he is not being used for lamping/hunting I still do feel that I have more than enough of the 'relevant' experience you feel you needed to question me on (which i didnt think was relevant to thwe post at all tbh) This has clealy been got/learned from my hands on experience from them all my life
'Cloudy Day' it is possible for someone to be JUST a pet owner and do all the above you listed (work/show and breed) . I am more than aware that there are small breeders out there who are in it to enhance the breed, but unfortunalty I am also well aware that these are few and far apart[/quote]
Hold on a minute there now. I did not infer that at all. You have jumped on my use of that word and taken it as a personal slight.
I did not put just in inverted comma's to infer it to mean anything.
The why I was curious was just in terms of discussion. Pure and simple.
I DO NOT understand why you say I only mentioned a MINORITY of the health problems these dogs are prone to,
Because minority shows that there is a vast majority, far more than most people who are buying ped pups know. So if we discussed only a minority, what a mess they are in with the majority.
I am trying to point out to people who may be considering buying a 'designer breed' the true facts, they are lining money hungry PF's pockets ...
Not every one is a puppy farmer.
Also I am well aware that our ancestors did this 'selective breeding' to develop dogs that were required for particular traits, we would not have these breeds to day if it was not for this (saying that it is shocking to see these breeds are so far removed now from what they originally looked like)
Why wouldn't you. Who doesn't. the ref for this was obvious, this is how we got our breeds.
I still do feel that I have more than enough of the 'relevant' experience you feel you needed to question me on
Wasn't questioning you at all. Again this is your personal taken imaginery slight on a discussion which is going to get opinions from different angles.
On a final note, if you are upset then it is because you have chosen to take something out of context and use it in a mnner for which it was not intended. And if that is the impression you got then i apologise, just incase i may have worded something wrongly.0 -
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