Ireland a disgrace in animal welfare

jen_23

I've been absolutely disgusted with what I have just seen.
I was looking around for something else and I came across this

Warning - distressing images

http://www.anvilireland.ie/fulcrum.html?ep=54

I have to say the ability for people to literally through away a life astounds me. What are these people like in their everyday lives? I certainly would not want to know them.
If you can treat an animal with such disregard, as if it has no feelings, no needs, no sense of pain?? What can these people be like in their daily lives to other people.

Okay rant over. Just really needed to vent after seeing that.




*******If you havn't already dne so please consider supporting the cspca campaign to change our outdated legislation on the protection of animals.
It has not been updated since 1911!! There is no excuse for this at all.
The campaign details can be accessed here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055575403
Act now to prevent cruelty as above from recurring.************

My name is URL

Happens all over the world, not just Ireland.

Some people have no compassion towards animals at all, it would be nice to lock them all up but it's easier said than done.

Sigma Force

In some countries people are prosecuted so no reason why Ireland can't do the same, there are people taken to court over animal cruelty cases but sadly I don't think the punishments they get are enough.
Change can happen but people need to supported the campaigners like ANVIL also all the canvassers are around at the moment, people can start asking questions and voting for the person they think will most likely raise the issues

sorella

Ireland is way behind many other countries.

Each needs to find a way to help; we have seen and worked with so many cases since we came here.

The ones who are doing great things in many cases are the 'blow ins". A network here in Donegal at least.

It needs courage to face abusers; often we have reported the animals and made sure we followed up then.

Does not make for "popularity"; but .......

have just been trying to make our hose pipes stretch down the drive as there are two cows and small calves in the field and theya re not bringing them enough water. The trough was empty earlier . Cannot carry heavy stuff... failed.. next tactic is to put a bucket or three nearer the top here.... lateral thinking in small ways..They will never know!

Paul91

jen_23 wrote: »

I've been absolutely disgusted with what I have just seen.
I was looking around for something else and I came across this

Warning - distressing images

http://www.anvilireland.ie/fulcrum.html?ep=54

I have to say the ability for people to literally through away a life astounds me. What are these people like in their everyday lives? I certainly would not want to know them.
If you can treat an animal with such disregard, as if it has no feelings, no needs, no sense of pain?? What can these people be like in their daily lives to other people.

Okay rant over. Just really needed to vent after seeing that.




*******If you havn't already dne so please consider supporting the cspca campaign to change our outdated legislation on the protection of animals.
It has not been updated since 1911!! There is no excuse for this at all.
The campaign details can be accessed here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055575403
Act now to prevent cruelty as above from recurring.************

1) Please don't tell me you are associated with the CSPCA in Mahon ?

2) The campaign details no longer exist on the link from the other posting listing " http://www.animalcaresociety.ie/letter.htm "

jen_23

First of all the link was from back in May when the elections were on. The campaign was to write to the politicians and more or less say that if they wanted our votes to put changing the animal rights laws onto their ballot hence why it is no longer available.

Secondly I support any campaign which is involved in updating our ridiculously outdated prehistoric animal rights legislation.

Paul91

jen_23 wrote: »

First of all the link was from back in May when the elections were on. The campaign was to write to the politicians and more or less say that if they wanted our votes to put changing the animal rights laws onto their ballot hence why it is no longer available.

Secondly I support any campaign which is involved in updating our ridiculously outdated prehistoric animal rights legislation.

no problem supporting campaigns to update animal rights, hopefully they will include a bit more oomf in the enforcement of them I understand that a new Animal Health and Welfare Bill is currently in the draft stages and the ISPCA has called for the introduction of regulations governing animal welfare organisations - which has my utmost support

GinaH

jen_23 wrote: »

I've been absolutely disgusted with what I have just seen.
I was looking around for something else and I came across this

Warning - distressing images

http://www.anvilireland.ie/fulcrum.html?ep=54

I have to say the ability for people to literally through away a life astounds me. What are these people like in their everyday lives? I certainly would not want to know them.
If you can treat an animal with such disregard, as if it has no feelings, no needs, no sense of pain?? What can these people be like in their daily lives to other people.

Okay rant over. Just really needed to vent after seeing that.




*******If you havn't already dne so please consider supporting the cspca campaign to change our outdated legislation on the protection of animals.
It has not been updated since 1911!! There is no excuse for this at all.
The campaign details can be accessed here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055575403
Act now to prevent cruelty as above from recurring.************

Hi Jen

These pictures are mild compared to what most of us in welfare see every day.Those puppies in the picture were brought to us at PAWS, the survivors were rehomed. This is the REALITY in Ireland today.
On our site http://www.paws.ie/truestories.html you will see that we are used to seeing animals in this state. The Animal welfare bill will probably take years to pass and without enforcement will make no difference in the end.

Discodog

Jen: That ANVIL page was put up several years ago. As PAWS & every other rescue will testify this is nothing new or out of the ordinary. Some of us have been & are continuing to lobby for the AWB. The Greens have mentioned it in their Renewed Program for Government. We need to continually push them as current events will put it way down the list. But one thing in our favour is unlike all the other Green plans this one will cost nothing to implement.

However anyone who thinks that legislation alone will change the situation is wrong. The existing laws are old & in places ridiculous - like making GSD's a restrictive breed but they do offer a lot of protection against cruelty. But the SPCA's won't act & the Guards won't prosecute.

To make the problem worse there is no mass movement or inclination to oppose animal cruelty in Ireland. The Greens promised a ban on Hare Coursing but Matty McGrath of FF opposed it so the Greens gave way. If anyone thinks that I am FF bashing FG are just as bad in supporting rural field sports. Whilst Coursing is banned in the UK it receives government funding here as does Greyhound Racing. Ask yourself where do all the dogs end up that are not good enough to race & how many puppies does it take to produce a racer ?. 10,000 dead Greyhounds were found on a farm in England - many were Irish dogs. Talking of Farms the Greens promised to ban Puppy Farming but it is not in their PFG.

The Brits can be cruel to their animals but when they are there is an upsurge against it. For years sheep near me have had their legs tied to prevent escape. Literally thousands of people have passed by & no one has done anything until me. If you tied the legs of a sheep & then put it on a remote Welsh hillside, the police would be there in no time. Someone would spot it & call them.

Some will argue that it is a matter of education & I certainly think that animal welfare should be part of the curriculum. If every kid was taught how to provide for & respect the needs of animals from a young age then the situation would get better over time.

Scotland & Ireland have about the same number of dogs. The Scots put about 800 down every year & the Irish about 16,000. The Scots think that 800 is too many. Ask yourself why their is no outcry in Ireland ?

The situation is slowly improving in Ireland but the long term recession & shortage of money will kill many more dogs as rescues will not have the funds to take them. So before you write to your TD give your local rescue a few Euro.

Chiaki

i agree, legislation is one thing but you must change public opinion. education and supporting shelters are such activities. for example dog fighting is illegal in this country but it still happens quite regularly, if your caught as far as i know there is a hefty fine. what needs to happen is to educate people that dog fighting is cruel, unneccessary and eventually people will become disgusted at the idea of it. If every one has the opinion that dog fighting is cruel and disgusting then no one will do it.
legislation may curb the problem if the general population partake in animal cruelty but its never the general population that carry out such cruelty. its usually a small number of people in a community that are repeat offenders, people that engage in blood sports, fighting, starving animals to make the more vicious etc.
in my opinion the only useful piece of legislation that could be brought in is the proposed dangerous animal license detailed herehttp://www.ispca.ie/Exotic-Animals.aspx at least this would stop people neglecting exotic animals that were an impulse buy.

WalkingDude

But the SPCA's won't act & the Guards won't prosecute.

The Animal welfare bill will probably take years to pass and without enforcement will make no difference in the end.

In some countries people are prosecuted so no reason why Ireland can't do the same, there are people taken to court over animal cruelty cases but sadly I don't think the punishments they get are enough.

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Carbury-man-jailed-for-neglect.5772676.jp

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0228/1224241989066.html

http://www.carlowpeople.ie/news/man-allowed-emaciated-horse-to-lie-dying-in-field-1676290.html

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2009/01/22/story82471.asp

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0313/1224242799265.html

Just a small selection from this year.

See http://www.ispca.ie/news_category.aspx?cat_id=5 for more cases

Discodog

So how many successful prosecutions are made every year in Ireland compared to Scotland which has a similar Dog population ?.
The newspaper reports listed are the same cases as in the ISPCA list so about 14 cases in the last 12 months. That equates to roughly 3.5 cases per million of population.
The RSPCA lists 1149 convictions in 12 months roughly equating to 18 cases per million. So the RSPCA prosecute 6 times as many people.

Successful convictions for extreme cruelty are headline grabbers but we never get to hear of all those cases that are not prosecuted.
On any day, in any week, anyone could find cases of improper care, neglect & cruelty. Our local SPCA inspector has to cover a huge area & has had to go onto part time working due to a lack of money. The chances on someone being reported, prosecuted & convicted is very small.

WalkingDude

Your original comment was

But the SPCA's won't act & the Guards won't prosecute.

which is neither fair nor true.

As you rightly say, Irish SPCAs are extremely under-resourced. For example, the ISPCA has 5 full time Inspectors while the RSPCA has approx 330 and the Scottish SPCA approx 50.

Also, new animal welfare legislation is already in place in Britain allowing the RSPCA and SSPCA to instigate legal proceedings before standards fall to the level required to prosecute in Ireland.

The figures are therefore not comparable.

Discodog

Because of the way that the ISPCA's were originally set up & the lack of extensive public support there is a lot of regional variation. If you become a regular poster here & on the other established welfare boards you will find that rescues often have a poor view of some SPCA's

Whilst our local SPCA has effectively gone part time another rescue organisation that is well known here has rehomed over 1000 dogs. She works totally on her own & receives less than 5% of the funding that the SPCA receive.

The idea of going onto part time working when, due to the recession, the Welfare situation is at breaking point, would be an anathema to rescues. Some SPCA's see their work as a job whereas the rescues see it as a vocation.

I can think of one SPCA inspector who got a new van. It was not sponsored to reduce the cost. The same inspector did not have a €100 chip scanner so they had to waste time going to a vet every time they needed to scan.

When I see the amazing work that the dozens of rescues manage to do on a fraction of the money it has to raise questions as to how the SPCA's operate.

Paul91

the CSPCA in Cork charges €100 to take a dog out, €100 to put a dog in (if surrended - which would make me wonder about all the dogs that would be dumped instead of paying to put your dog in!!) and when you take a dog out it has no vaccinations, no tagging, no licence and not neutered (in facti took one out pregnant with six pups - but you probably all know that story by now) they don't even brush the dogs!

So lets say a dog is put in on a Monday (€100) and taken out on a Friday (€100) do we really think that it costs €200 to just feed and water a dog? I know that there are overheads, staff costs etc.

Paul91

and is it just me or does this look strange (Cork only) 1,600 surrended/collected - but only 26 seized?

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/DogControl/FileDownLoad,19869,en.xls

this would mean that for Cork (County/City only) the revenue generated from rehomed dogs is €60,000

looking at stats for dog licences in Cork you get €458,470

If you add in the potential €160,000 from people surrendereing the dogs you get a total revenue of €678,470 generated in Cork in 2008 from dogs being surrendered and rehomed and dog licences - this doesn't take into account the donations and money left by people in wills etc!

(also I understand that the post office keep 50% of the licence fee?)

WalkingDude

But the SPCA's won't act & the Guards won't prosecute

May I suggest that you be more specific, rather than making sweeping and innaccurate generalisations?

It is not helpful to post misinformation that could cause other readers to form unwarranted negative opinions of hard-working welfare organisations.

Discodog

Boards privacy policy means that I cannot mention specific identifiable cases or persons. That statement is based on what I have been told & what has been posted many times here & on other boards by hard working welfare organisations. Some of those organisations even cover for the SPCA's by taking Dogs that the SPCA's refuse to rehome.

If you do a little Googling you will find that virtually all the rescues post online. It is how they communicate & you can easily find the types of posts that I am referring to.

I have worked for & with rescues in for many years in Ireland & the UK. I have painted a very good opinion of the many welfare organisations that work here. I know some of them personally. My comment is about some of the SPCA's.

I know of someone who's neighbours dog had a swelling the size of an orange. It took many calls & nearly four weeks before his local SPCA acted. Now I totally accept that they are under pressure but the dog has been returned to the owner who had hit it hard enough to cause the swelling in the first place.

The SPCA's policy is to educate - to show the person the error of their ways. The RTE series that followed SPCA's inspectors showed many examples of this. For example someone keeping cattle in appalling conditions in his house !. I would suggest that because of the current situation the policy needs to change to one where inspectors do everything possible to secure a conviction. If someone has broken the law they should be charged.

Discodog

Paul this is nothing new. Ashtown Pound & Dog Warden service is run by a private company for profit. They have been getting nearly one million per year.

Why arn't the ISPCA running it ?. They would have no vested interest & the profit could go towards the dogs. The wonderful people at DID do most of the work for the pound & achieve amazing rehoming rates with no reward.

WalkingDude

Maybe I don't understand the rules but Paul made reference to a particular organisation?

I also don't understand the distinction between "rescues" and "SPCAs" who rescue animals?

Discodog

The first question is an issue that you need to raise with Boards. I would not name an individual or identify them here.

By "Rescues" I mean private individuals & organisations that rescue & rehome animals such as PAWs & EGAR. SPCA's I assume are affiliated to the ISPCA but I do not know how they differ in real terms but I will be finding out.

You seem to think me constantly critical of SPCA's but if you read some of my posts you will see that I have often supported them against criticism. If you have any contact with the ISPCA then please urge them to post here as it could be of huge benefit.

The ISPCA needs to constantly improve. I appreciate that with the recent changes such as Mark going to the Dogs Trust things may be in flux.

For example what would be better, a local SPCA employing one inspector on a 3 day week or several volunteer inspectors working all the time ?.

Should the SPCA's not focus on animal cruelty & promote local rescues to take care of rehab & rehoming ?.

Why do people set up their own rescues instead of working for their SPCA ?.

If you haven't done so, read up on "Humanity Dick" Martin from Ballynahinch in Connemara. He started the whole animal welfare agenda & the RSPCA. He once fought a duel on behalf of an ill treated Ox stating that "An Ox cannot hold a pistol" !. His story would make a brilliant film & he must be turning in his grave given what is happening on his doorstep.

Slugs

Crafty-Chel wrote: »

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS

Pictures like this need to be shown to the public more often, People need to see what other people are doing to these animals...

people who can drown puppies and cats are disgusting and should have been drown at birth themselves... bt the sick thing is, no matter what laws are brought in, no matter how many people are banned from owning animals or even jailed, IT WILL NEVER STOP... these sick F**kers will keep doing it...

No, things like this should not be done. Why should mine and everyone elses perceptions be violated by these scenes?

I'm not saying that nothing should be done, but shock tactics are a violation to someone's feelings and thoughts if nothing else. Not just for animal cruelty, but for anything in general. This whole "But sure if it saves one" mentality is flawed.

Slugs

The fundamental aim of the SPCA's are that they're businesses, and as such, are driven by profit. I'm not saying all SPCA's are, but the ISPCA is as a whole, which is a shame...

Discodog

Slugs wrote: »

No, things like this should not be done. Why should mine and everyone elses perceptions be violated by these scenes?

I'm not saying that nothing should be done, but shock tactics are a violation to someone's feelings and thoughts if nothing else. Not just for animal cruelty, but for anything in general. This whole "But sure if it saves one" mentality is flawed.

So would you ban 99% of the "starving African children ads" or the current road safety adverts showing the results of drink driving.
Do you really want to be in a little cocoon where you only ever see nice fluffy animals ?

Discodog

Slugs wrote: »

The fundamental aim of the SPCA's are that they're businesses, and as such, are driven by profit. I'm not saying all SPCA's are, but the ISPCA is as a whole, which is a shame...

The ISPCA & local SPCA's are registered charities not businesses.

Slugs

And I suppose in order to prevent murders, we should show people being stabbed to death for ads?

Paul91

Slugs wrote: »

The fundamental aim of the SPCA's are that they're businesses, and as such, are driven by profit. I'm not saying all SPCA's are, but the ISPCA is as a whole, which is a shame...

FYI the ISPCA has no affiliation to the CSPCA - I have been informed of this by the ISPCA inspectorate whom broke all contacts with the CSPCA. I can not speak for other SPCA's in Ireland.

Slugs

Paul91 wrote: »

FYI the ISPCA has no affiliation to the CSPCA - I have been informed of this by the ISPCA inspectorate whom broke all contacts with the CSPCA. I can not speak for other SPCA's in Ireland.

Aye, for the reason, they found the ISPCA was run too much like a business, and wasn't it the CSPCA broke contact with the ISPCA? didn't realise it was the other way around :S

Discodog

Maybe it is sad fact that people only take notice when their senses are touched. How many people will believe the level of animal cruelty if they do not see the evidence ?.

To help prevent murder such as carrying knives is it not a good idea to show people the consequences ?

Slugs

Discodog wrote: »

Maybe it is sad fact that people only take notice when their senses are touched. How many people will believe the level of animal cruelty if they do not see the evidence ?.

To help prevent murder such as carrying knives is it not a good idea to show people the consequences ?

I'm sorry, but if you need to be shown what happens to you if you drink and drive, then quite obviously you shouldn't be driving in the first place. (not you personally, speaking hypothetically).

Discodog

Paul91 wrote: »

FYI the ISPCA has no affiliation to the CSPCA - I have been informed of this by the ISPCA inspectorate whom broke all contacts with the CSPCA. I can not speak for other SPCA's in Ireland.

I had heard something like this. So does this reduce or affect the powers that the CSPCA have ?. No wonder people won't support SPCA's when this is going on.