Enda Kenny - Irelands Kinnock?

kenco

Thoughts on this?

IMO the guy is prob not the worst, capable enough and decent. He does not seem to 'connect'. For a while I have been trying to think of another Irish leader but could not. Best one I have so far is the former Lab leader Neil Kinnock.

Forget which year it was (guess early 90s) where it looked like a landslide Labour victory. Then on the day (even the polls got it wrong) people just couldnt take themselves to vote against the Tories. This could have been fear of Labour or to me just the inability to have Kinnock as PM.

I think there was a touch of this in the last election where FG did well on the day but did not hoover up some of the FF seats they maybe should have done with their first preferences.

The assumption is that an election later this year would bring Kenny to power at the head of a FG/Lab + etc coalition. Im not so sure..

Firetrap

Yes, I think it's a fair comparison. I've nothing against the guy as such (I'm not a supporter of any political party) but while he has done great work bring his party back from the brink, he just doesn't have that certain something that will bring them over the line. It's hard to put a finger on why. He seems a bit lightweight and doesn't have the "likeability" factor that Bertie Ahern had.

Sand

Yes, we get it, Enda Kenny isnt a jack the lad, Bertie Ahern type. He is just merely a sensible, hard working politician who gets the head down and gets on with it.

Many would see that as a positive given how Bertie Ahern and his lads have run the country into the ground.

is_that_so

Kinnock's mistake was to tell people that they had it won and to come across as an arrogant git in doing so. Considering all the hard work he had done to that point, taking the electorate for granted was a very big mistake. He also loved the spotlight. Kenny, by comparison is strong on the team and what the party will do. The difference between that 1992 election and the following one is that Britain wasn't completely fed up with the Conservatives.

I wonder, yet again, why people are so obsessed with the cult of personality? If the candidates are good enough, like George Lee, then the party will win more seats. FF are ripe for the taking and IMO in the same place the Conservatives were in 1997. Parties too long in government eventually get punished and are blamed for every ill. TBH I suspect that some in FF already see this anyway and would welcome it.

Even taking in a handful of constituencies like Dublin Central, Dublin North East, Dublin South West, Dublin West, Meath East and Louth, there are more than enough opportunities to get the numbers for the expected coalition. Much as some would love to see FF butchered, 84 seats is good enough.

irish_bob

is_that_so wrote: »

Kinnock's mistake was to tell people that they had it won and to come across as an arrogant git in doing so. Considering all the hard work he had done to that point, taking the electorate for granted was a very big mistake. He also loved the spotlight. Kenny, by comparison is strong on the team and what the party will do. The difference between that 1992 election and the following one is that Britain wasn't completely fed up with the Conservatives.

I wonder, yet again, why people are so obsessed with the cult of personality? If the candidates are good enough, like George Lee, then the party will win more seats. FF are ripe for the taking and IMO in the same place the Conservatives were in 1997. Parties too long in government eventually get punished and are blamed for every ill. TBH I suspect that some in FF already see this anyway and would welcome it.

Even taking in a handful of constituencies like Dublin Central, Dublin North East, Dublin South West, Dublin West, Meath East and Louth, there are more than enough opportunities to get the numbers for the expected coalition. Much as some would love to see FF butchered, 84 seats is good enough.

but a coalition is not what is needed , any coalition involving labour will not allow what needs to be done

kenny as leader means fine gael wont win a landslide , hes the difference between them making it into goverment and winning every swing voter

Jack Sheehan

Was he the 'Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government' guy?

kenco

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Was he the 'Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government' guy?

No I believe that was the leader of the Lib Dems at the time (name escapes me at the moment) - just has David Steele!

Enda Kenny appears to be a good man with the interests of the country at heart. This is a big change in my view. However as with Kinnock I think the electorate will ignore the right thing (i.e. a change of government) because of the leader of the party. In the UK this gave them a Tory goverment led by Major just hanging on and reliant on the Ulster Unionist vote to keep them in power (not a good situation at all). The ramifications were significant and who knows maybe a Kinnock led government would have been just as ineffective but at least it would have been a change when needed.

I really hope this is not the case here. Despite the polls, etc FG are not going to get the landslide needed and will only be able to form a government with Labour and possibly others (dont go there for now). I personnally dread the 'better the devil you know' mentality that kicked in in the last election and may kick in again (especially if Cowen is dumped)

Finally I have no agenda here. This is a personal opinion based on years of spectating. FG have no choice at this stage to continue with Enda as leader but I hope this is not their Kinnock moment and that we end up with some weird(er) mish mash of FF support government

sceptre

kenco wrote: »

No I believe that was the leader of the Lib Dems at the time (name escapes me at the moment) - just has David Steele!

It was David Steel, at the Liberal party conference in 1981, slightly after the SDP-Liberal alliance was formed. They were at over 50% in the opinion polls at the time.

Mr.Micro

Is that just it, Enda is a sensible all round average guy, not a chancer or bruiser and thats the problem? Ireland only ever votes for the very types that Enda is not. Neil Kinnock was lambasted in the tabloids in the UK most notably The Sun and on Spitting image both of which had enormous detrimental impact on the Labour party. It boiled down to who to trust with your money, like it did here for the last 2 elections. I still think that the electorate will still not have learned that FF is bad for the country but FG need to make Enda look like a bad boy to give him cred.

kenco

Its worrying the role of the media in all this (just as referred to by Mr Micro). Bertie got away with (fill in the blanks) as he was a portrayed as a decent skin. Kinnocks greatest failing - for the media - was that he was welsh. The same approach seemed to apply when Bertie was around. I think there is a bit of confusion around how to deal with Cowen but he is still dyed in the wool FF.

By the way in all of this I am not stating that Kinnock would have been a great PM or that Kenny would be a significant improvement either. I just think rightly or wrongly there are similarities and for one I hope we dont make the mistakes of the UK and return an inept government based on notions around the leader of the alternative....

Nodin

Firetrap wrote: »

Yes, I think it's a fair comparison. I've nothing against the guy as such (I'm not a supporter of any political party) but while he has done great work bring his party back from the brink, he just doesn't have that certain something that will bring them over the line. It's hard to put a finger on why. He seems a bit lightweight and doesn't have the "likeability" factor that Bertie Ahern had.

He's just not very convincing. The idea of the Labour fella playing second fiddle to him in a coalition is just galling, to my mind.


(I'm not a Labour voter, just to clarify).

grenache

As already mentioned, the voting public like a chancer, a bit of bedevilment. Enda Kenny is seen as somewhat safe, maybe even boring. A good politician and a good guy, but thats his problem right there.

irish_bob

if enda kenny were an actor , hed be BILL PULLMAN

King of Kings

i dislike enda kenny cos he is too upright a kind of right wing green party - i'll die for my dogma kinda guy and those people do not connect with the average Irish person primary as we see them as fakes.

Also he preaches too much law and order for my liking. I'm no fan of gangsters but enda kenny gives me the shivers when i imagine his ideal state - although he somewhat redeems himself in his hatred of the shinners.

ejmaztec

He's in with a chance as long as he's not Ireland's Michael Foot. That guy would have been unelectable even if he were the only man on the ballot paper.

paddyboy23

still kinnock done a lot for new labour ask tony and gordon but he had a face that said not for me his rating were always low but edna is so low would someone in that party have the guts to stand up and tell enda to step aside for the good of the party even the dogs in the street no edna is not the man for the job

irish_bob

paddyboy23 wrote: »

still kinnock done a lot for new labour ask tony and gordon but he had a face that said not for me his rating were always low but edna is so low would someone in that party have the guts to stand up and tell enda to step aside for the good of the party even the dogs in the street no edna is not the man for the job

i thought kinnock pre-dated new labour , i know kinnock wasnt michael foot but he was far more to the left than blair

paddyboy23

irish_bob wrote: »

i thought kinnock pre-dated new labour , i know kinnock wasnt michael foot but he was far more to the left than blair

i never said what side he was i just said tony and gordon benafitted from what kinnock had started against john major he was odds on to win that election the same way edna would be if there was one now and i think the result would be the same ireland is not going to put edna in charge

ejmaztec

paddyboy23 wrote: »

i never said what side he was i just said tony and gordon benafitted from what kinnock had started against john major he was odds on to win that election the same way edna would be if there was one now and i think the result would be the same ireland is not going to put edna in charge

It's hard to figure without punctuation.:)

King of Kings

King of Kings wrote: »

those people do not connect with the average Irish person primary as we see them as fakes.

Good! The average Irish person is a thick who hasn't a clue about anything, I can't think of a higher qualification a politician can have.

paddyboy23

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's hard to figure without punctuation.:)

i havent a clue where commas goes i can hardly spell the words, but what i do have is common sence and thats all i was taking about pity you dont, get your glass of hot milk and off to bed,do u understand that now:)

guinnessdrinker

I think one of Kenny's problems is that he comes across as an honest politician and after over ten years of FF led government this is something we are unfortunatly not used to!

King of Kings

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Good! The average Irish person is a thick who hasn't a clue about anything, I can't think of a higher qualification a politician can have.

how dare you!
The average irish person doesn't vote. however the average voter dislikes Kenny cos he comes across as a holier than thou kinda guy with a right wing slant.

irish_bob

it wouldnt bother me if kennys only drawback was coming across as honest ( a drawback in this country traditionally , we like our politicans a bit dirty ) , my problem with kenny is i think thier isnt much to him at all , i think the guy is a dork