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Middle East Conflict

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    #2
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ciaobellaciao1 wrote: »
    How much do you think the Obama adminstration can realistically achieve over the next two years?

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1089087.html

    Unless he's prepared to back up his demands with penalties for ignoring them, the same as everyone else (which is nada).


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    #3
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Probably very little, Israel and the Palestinians have the wrong leaders leading them at the right time (if that makes sense!).

    .


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    #4
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ciaobellaciao1 wrote: »
    How much do you think the Obama adminstration can realistically achieve over the next two years?

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1089087.html

    Now if this is true (and I hope it is) there may well be cause for hope....
    Israeli alarm is growing over Barack Obama's perceived tilt away from the Jewish state and towards its historic Arab foes. Whether this shift is merely tactical, and related to the peace process,or of longer-term strategic significance, is actively debated.
    The contrast with Obama's increasingly abrasive treatment of Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister, is striking. Since their mostly unproductive meeting in Washington last month, Obama and his acolytes have taken to almost daily, public exhortations to Netanyahu to meet his "roadmap obligations" and freeze all settlement activity, without exceptions, in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. They argue a settlement freeze is essential if the peace process is to be revived.
    Israel's response has grown increasingly frenetic. Senior Israeli officials, including Dan Meridor, the deputy PM, and Uzi Arad, the national security adviser, met secretly in London last week with George Mitchell, Obama's Middle East envoy. But Mitchell was unflinching and the talks flopped. Now Ehud Barak, Israel's defence minister, is in Washington, trying to find some give in the US position – so far without success.

    ..........
    Reports that Washington may squeeze Israel by withholding habitual diplomatic backing at the UN and by conditioning its financial support are adding to the pressure.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/02/obama-israel-netanyahu-cairo

    I'd do a little dance, sans alcohol, were the day come to pass, I really would.....


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    #5
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    ciaobellaciao1 wrote: »
    How much do you think the Obama adminstration can realistically achieve over the next two years?
    What do you think? (hint: read the charter.)


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    #6
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Its all just hot air at the moment. Sure, they're telling Israel to cop on, but they're not doing anything to stop them expanding. If they don't make a significant gesture - say sanctions on Israel unless they stop expanding, Obama will lose any credibility he has in the Arab world


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    #7
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Bollox-all.

    The point of dispute is the Israelis and the Palestinians. The US barely reach a level beyond 'interested observer'. No matter how much the US may want the place settled down, ultimately the two protagonists need to figure it out because those are the only two that count.

    For the record, Obama apparently blocked the sale of a half-dozen helicopters to Israel last week, whilst approving 12 to Egypt.

    NTM


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    #8
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Bollox-all.

    The point of dispute is the Israelis and the Palestinians. The US barely reach a level beyond 'interested observer'. No matter how much the US may want the place settled down, ultimately the two protagonists need to figure it out because those are the only two that count.

    For the record, Obama apparently blocked the sale of a half-dozen helicopters to Israel last week, whilst approving 12 to Egypt.

    NTM

    True enough but I think that alot of people in the US are tired of the unflinching backing the US has given Israel for the past decades. What have the US to show for it?? Nada!

    Israel will never back down to world pressure rightly or wrongly. Only the US has the power to make Israel at least sit down and talk.

    If it weren't for US backing both political and financial then Israel would at least in its current form would never exist or be a very different state.

    I think its time for the US to call the Israeli bluff. Either co-operate with their plans to settle this dispute for once and all or if they think that this is a "local" dispute between Israel and the Arabs then thats fine too but don't come running to daddy when WW3 breaks out looking for support.

    You cant have your cake and eat it too!


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    #9
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Bollox-all.

    The point of dispute is the Israelis and the Palestinians. The US barely reach a level beyond 'interested observer'.

    An interested observer thats used its Veto over 33 times to protect Israel from sanctions, and that uses its influence to isolate the Palestinians? Israel is an ally of the US, is deemed valuable and is treated accordingly.


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    #10
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Have sanctions ever worked on anything?

    I know there's an argument for South Africa, but I'm not convinced they really had any great effect.

    NTM


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    #11
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Nodin wrote: »
    An interested observer thats used its Veto over 33 times to protect Israel from sanctions, and that uses its influence to isolate the Palestinians? Israel is an ally of the US, is deemed valuable and is treated accordingly.

    Lets not forget the Billions in military aid, which in my mind has directly contributed to prolonging the conflict.


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    #12
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Have sanctions ever worked on anything?

    I know there's an argument for South Africa, but I'm not convinced they really had any great effect.

    NTM

    Apart from anything else, they point out that something is not right.

    Sanctions against South Africa were frequently ignored and patchy. The US only adopted mild sanctions in the mid 80's under Reagan, which were ditched 5/6 years later by Bush Snr. Thatcher opposed them entirely, if I recall. While not ineffective, they were not as powerful as they could have been. Sanctions backed more fully by the US, combined with Israels lack of native resources would have far more effect in this case.

    Theres also the option cutting of favorable term loans, military aid, be it direct or indirect..restrictions on fundraising...a withdrawing of the 'cloak of respectability' the US offers.


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