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AMD Thunderbird?

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  • 01-06-2009 4:30pm
    #1
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks,

    Hopefully some CPU guru can help me out here:

    I currently have a Socket A, AMD Thunderbird 1Ghz processor. Its in an old Gateway PC. Now, the 1.4GHz cores are now as cheap as chips (pardon the pun) on eBay. Is 1.4GHz the max I can go? Or could I into the Athlone XP cores? They go all the way to 2Ghz

    I know heat would be an issue but I can replace the heatsinks in place. Is my max speed limited by the motherboard/BIOS or the CPU?

    Thanks!

    ironclaw


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    #2
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Hi Folks,

    Hopefully some CPU guru can help me out here:

    I currently have a Socket A, AMD Thunderbird 1Ghz processor. Its in an old Gateway PC. Now, the 1.4GHz cores are now as cheap as chips (pardon the pun) on eBay. Is 1.4GHz the max I can go? Or could I into the Athlone XP cores? They go all the way to 2Ghz

    I know heat would be an issue but I can replace the heatsinks in place. Is my max speed limited by the motherboard/BIOS or the CPU?

    Thanks!

    ironclaw

    The Thunderbird cores stopped at 1.4GHz. Whether or not it can take an Athlon XP, depends on the BIOS and the motherboard and it's support for them. You may also be limited in your choice of Athlon XP, since laters ones used a 166MHz bus or higher. There's no point in spending money on this, even the max upgrade path will still leave it pointlessly outdated.


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    #3
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Spear wrote: »
    The Thunderbird cores stopped at 1.4GHz. Whether or not it can take an Athlon XP, depends on the BIOS and the motherboard and it's support for them. You may also be limited in your choice of Athlon XP, since laters ones used a 166MHz bus or higher. There's no point in spending money on this, even the max upgrade path will still leave it pointlessly outdated.

    I agree. It will be outdated but its not for me. Its an old machine for a mate running XP only occasionally. So a ThunderBird 1.4Ghz is max then? Ok. Confirmed my suspicions :)


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    #4
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    ironclaw wrote: »
    I agree. It will be outdated but its not for me. Its an old machine for a mate running XP only occasionally. So a ThunderBird 1.4Ghz is max then? Ok. Confirmed my suspicions :)

    It may not be the max, higher 133MHz bus Athlon XP's may work, but without more info on the board it's impossible to tell.


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    #5
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    ironclaw, what is the model of Gateway? Does it have lettering or numbering on front or back, someone might give you a very specific answer with that information.

    Your speed is limited by the bios being able to recongise the CPU, quite possible to run an Athlon on the board if you set things manually, but you'll get a junk CPU/error on boot up, it simply won't be recongised.

    The money you put into upgrades might cover a far more modern set up, just bear that in mind..


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    #6
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    But is it worth it?, What You buy today for peanuts as a budget pc is many times faster


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    #7
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Amalgam wrote: »
    ironclaw, what is the model of Gateway? Does it have lettering or numbering on front or back, someone might give you a very specific answer with that information.

    Join the club. I can't get an answer out of Gateway and because of the custom BIOS gateway used, I can ID it. Its an American Megatrends board, thats all I know
    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    But is it worth it?, What You buy today for peanuts as a budget pc is many times faster

    Well, a new CPU on eBay is well under €40, so I'd pay that before forking out for a totally new PC. Its only a project and I'll probably eventually throw Linux onto it.


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    #8
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Join the club. I can't get an answer out of Gateway and because of the custom BIOS gateway used, I can ID it. Its an American Megatrends board, thats all I know

    American Megatrends are the BIOS manufacturer, not the board maker.


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    #9
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Spear wrote: »
    American Megatrends are the BIOS manufacturer, not the board maker.

    No, I'm 99% sure its a Gateway BIOS and a American Megatrends Board. However, I could be wrong :pac:


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    #10
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    ironclaw, have a look at the backplate (where your parallel, mouse ports are..) is there not a label there with a serial?


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    #11
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    ironclaw wrote: »
    No, I'm 99% sure its a Gateway BIOS and a American Megatrends Board. However, I could be wrong :pac:

    Gateway would customise image of other manufacturers BIOS's. It's extremely unlikely to be an AMI board.


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    #12
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Well, a new CPU on eBay is well under €40, so I'd pay that before forking out for a totally new PC. Its only a project and I'll probably eventually throw Linux onto it.

    What You'd get on Adverts.ie for €40 or even in the Free Stuff section would be alot faster TBH. Its just not worth a penny


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    #13
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Amalgam wrote: »
    ironclaw, have a look at the backplate (where your parallel, mouse ports are..) is there not a label there with a serial?

    Oh, I have a serial number however its so old that the are few stats for it. And I can't ID the board, I even took it out and gave it a once over.


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    #14
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Hi Folks,

    The new 1.4Ghz Thunderbird arrived today, but is only showing as a 1052Mhz! :(

    Heres the screen shot:

    3616694347_230168ae29_b.jpg


    Anyone have any ideas? Could be a dud chip I know, but anything else I could be overlooking? :confused:

    Regards!


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    #15
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    You never told us what mobo you have so we couldn't tell you that its too slow for the 1.4GHz chip. It seems to be an old board with a 100MHz bus speed. The 1.4GHz TBird needs a 133MHz bus to run at rated speed :(


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    #16
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Solitaire wrote: »
    You never told us what mobo you have so we couldn't tell you that its too slow for the 1.4GHz chip. It seems to be an old board with a 100MHz bus speed. The 1.4GHz TBird needs a 133MHz bus to run at rated speed :(

    Both the chip I removed and this one are rated at 100Mhz Bus. They are the exact same family of chip.

    I'm no expert however! :(

    EDIT:

    From Wikipedia:

    o Slot A: 650–1000 MHz
    o Socket A, 100 MHz FSB (B-models): 600–1400 MHz
    o Socket A, 133 MHz FSB (C-models): 1000–1400 MHz

    I presume I need a B model and the one I have must be a C model?


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    #17
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Yep! Either that or for some reason its multiplier has been set too low in the BIOS for some reason. If you can't set it back to 14 in the BIOS (or is there a Windows tool for TBirds?) its probably a C :(

    Hunt around in the BIOS and/or mobo jumpers and see if there's any way to raise that FSB to 133MHz!


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    #18
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Solitaire wrote: »
    Yep! Either that or for some reason its multiplier has been set too low in the BIOS for some reason. If you can't set it back to 14 in the BIOS (or is there a Windows tool for TBirds?) its probably a C :(

    Hunt around in the BIOS and/or mobo jumpers and see if there's any way to raise that FSB to 133MHz!

    I wouldn't say there is a work around. Sure, at least I know the problem. I'll just keep an eye out for a 100 MHz model. Lesson learned! :)


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    #19
    Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    I wouldn't think it's worth upgrading. I'd have a newer machine available for sale for €70 collected if you want!


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    #20
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Praetorian wrote: »
    I wouldn't think it's worth upgrading. I'd have a newer machine available for sale for €70 collected if you want!

    I've said that already but.............


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    #21
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    I've said that already but.............

    Totally appreciate it. If it was me, I would. However, it ain't my machine! So I'm just under orders :pac:


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    #22
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Then explain to your commanding officer that THIS IS MADNESS!! ninja.gif [/sparta]


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    #23
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    sata.jpg

    Anywho! Back on topic, I need a AMD A1400AMS3B (As Here)

    Anyone know where I could pick one up? The C model seems more popular


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    #24
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Right, just opened it up and tried, in vain, to glean what mobo it is:

    Theres a plug in chip with "686 AMIBIOS AB12 8816" written on it

    And the board has no markings bar "MS-6330 VER2.1"

    I'm presuming at this point that its an OEM model or similar.

    BINGO! Got it updated, finally. Its a Micro Star (MS-6330). Now,something just struck me. This board can take 133Mhz RAM which is what is in it at the moment. Does that link into the CPU Bus speed? I took out the 133MHz FSB, 1.4GHz CPU before I noticed that the RAM was only at 100Mhz. I've changed the RAM to 133MHz, but don't want to waste time putting the CPU back in if I'm completely wrong! :)


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    #25
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Right, just opened it up and tried, in vain, to glean what mobo it is:

    Theres a plug in chip with "686 AMIBIOS AB12 8816" written on it

    And the board has no markings bar "MS-6330 VER2.1"

    I'm presuming at this point that its an OEM model or similar.

    BINGO! Got it updated, finally. Its a Micro Star (MS-6330). Now,something just struck me. This board can take 133Mhz RAM which is what is in it at the moment. Does that link into the CPU Bus speed? I took out the 133MHz FSB, 1.4GHz CPU before I noticed that the RAM was only at 100Mhz. I've changed the RAM to 133MHz, but don't want to waste time putting the CPU back in if I'm completely wrong! :)

    It's an MSI K7T variant. It has the VIA KT133 chipset, and as the name suggests it does support a 133MHz BIOS. Given the age of it, it's possible you'll need to set the bus speed the old fashioned way with jumpers, though in the BIOS should also work.

    It should resemble the image here.

    http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K7T_Turbo_2&class=mb


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    #26
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    A noble board. I had one in my time. ironclaw, I have a Socket A board lying around, an ABIT KX7-333. Free to pick up or meet around the Dublin area. It should support your CPU, no idea about your memory though. Please bear in mind the USB on the backplate (x2) and the USB riser (x2), are all USB 1.1, not 2.0.


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    #27
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Spear wrote: »
    It's an MSI K7T variant. It has the VIA KT133 chipset, and as the name suggests it does support a 133MHz BIOS. Given the age of it, it's possible you'll need to set the bus speed the old fashioned way with jumpers, though in the BIOS should also work.

    It should resemble the image here.

    http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K7T_Turbo_2&class=mb

    Yeap, thats the one. Now, how do I go about jumpers? I can't seem to find any. Just the usual (Boot safe etc)

    EDIT: Just checked, there is one jumper and its only to do a reset: http://uk.ts.fujitsu.com/rl/servicesupport/techsupport/boards/motherboards/MicroStar/ms6330v5/6330V5.pdf
    Amalgam wrote: »
    A noble board. I had one in my time. ironclaw, I have a Socket A board lying around, an ABIT KX7-333. Free to pick up or meet around the Dublin area. It should support your CPU, no idea about your memory though. Please bear in mind the USB on the backplate (x2) and the USB riser (x2), are all USB 1.1, not 2.0.

    Thank you for the offer. I'll keep it in mind if this doesn't work out.

    Now,on the side of BIOS, its current has an AMI bios, the only downloads I can find are for Award BIOS's. Can I switch?


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    #28
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Yeap, thats the one. Now, how do I go about jumpers? I can't seem to find any. Just the usual (Boot safe etc)

    EDIT: Just checked, there is one jumper and its only to do a reset: http://uk.ts.fujitsu.com/rl/servicesupport/techsupport/boards/motherboards/MicroStar/ms6330v5/6330V5.pdf



    Thank you for the offer. I'll keep it in mind if this doesn't work out.

    Now,on the side of BIOS, its current has an AMI bios, the only downloads I can find are for Award BIOS's. Can I switch?

    BIOS updates for the 6330 variants are here.

    http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=downloaddetail&type=bios&maincat_no=1&prod_no=285


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    #29
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    I think I need to withdraw what I've said previously. The version provided to Gateway was a customised OEM version, and not the same as the normal retail version. From what's said here, you may be still out of luck.

    http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=1297.0

    This would explain why you see an AMI rather than Award BIOS image.


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    #30
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Spear wrote: »
    I think I need to withdraw what I've said previously. The version provided to Gateway was a customised OEM version, and not the same as the normal retail version. From what's said here, you may be still out of luck.

    http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=1297.0

    This would explain why you see an AMI rather than Award BIOS image.

    The onboard chip is an AMI. And in addition I tried an Award Flash, to no joy. If I could find an AMI BIOS however I might be able to work around.


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    #31
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    ironclaw wrote: »
    The onboard chip is an AMI. And in addition I tried an Award Flash, to no joy. If I could find an AMI BIOS however I might be able to work around.

    There is another potential issue. If the board isn't a normal K7T, it may have the original form of the KT133 chipset, which doesn't support 133MHz bus processors. The K7T Turbo 2 above had the KT133A revision of the chipset which did.


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