Left 4 Dead... 2.

L31mr0d

well my only concern was cutting L4D off at the knees. If L4D2 will retroactively support L4D content then it's no biggy for me, it's effectively only an expansion.

It also looks to be a bigger game than L4D though so the full price is warranted. However, none of the videos I've watched so far are selling it to me. I'd say I'll be giving this one a wide berth. I'll probably pick it up when its bundled with L4D3 8 months from now :P

ProjectColossus

It will probably take mods to do it, but something I'd love to see is something major revolving around the original four survivors:

Either, the new guys meet the old guys and you have a section of 8 player co-op against insane odds (probably easily implemented)

or, you find the four original survivors and they have been infected to become 'one off' boss infected. Like a real "end of level" boss.


Overall I feel that since this is Valve, it will be a good game. Hell it will be a great game, for what it is. I just feel the original was supposed to get more support, and a lot of this stuff could have been implemented in the current game. Unlikely to be a day one purchase, but will certainly be lots of fun when I do get it.

Maximilian

I think another thing is that any fan-made maps will work on either game. So I don't even think its a case Valve killing off L4D1. I'd say they will continue to support it.

Overheal

Maximilian wrote: »

Considering the value for money I've had from the first game, I can't complain about them charging full price for this sequel. I fail to understand how people are so annoyed about it. Yes, the first game was released sort of incomplete, mainly as regards versus mode but as I understand it, versus came late in the development of the game. Better that they released it incomplete than not at all.

Now hang on. You raise an interesting point. They could have easily delayed the launch of L$D by 12 months. It would be expected of Valve.

I would have much rather they held off, and gave us a Full Game in 09' rather than half a game (less?) in 08'.

5uspect

Maximilian wrote: »

Better that they released it incomplete than not at all.

Maybe Valve are trying to improve their release cycle. Remember Valve time?

Atlas_IRL

Have got great value out of the first one, but im not really impressed by this so far. Ill buy it but prob when i get bored of COD: MW2

Maximilian

Overheal wrote: »

Now hang on. You raise an interesting point. They could have easily delayed the launch of L$D by 12 months. It would be expected of Valve.

I would have much rather they held off, and gave us a Full Game in 09' rather than half a game (less?) in 08'.

I'd rather play and incomplete L4D2 now rather than wait til November but that's just me.

PirateShampoo

Maximilian wrote: »

I'd rather play and incomplete L4D2 now rather than wait til November but that's just me.

And you my good sir are the reason why they can pull this crap and get away with it.

pixelburp

Maximilian wrote: »

I'd rather play and incomplete L4D2 now rather than wait til November but that's just me.

This is why gamers aren't taken seriously as a consumer group / demographic. You wouldn't buy a music album where half of the tracks advertised aren't on the disc. You wouldn't go to a movie where half way through, the reel runs out. Yet with games we're supposedly happy to spend money on incomplete (or sometimes plain broken) products.

Stephen

More stuff about L4D2 on Eurogamer today:

Eurogamer wrote:

Speaking of which, the developer's decision to return to Left 4 Dead so soon after release raises questions about its usual, laudable long-term support for its games - questions we asked, obviously.

"We're going to keep building stuff for Left 4 Dead 1," said Johnson. "We'll support both. We've always felt that it makes good business sense to keep customers happy."

"We do have risks in that we don't want to split the two camps, we don't want a Left 4 Dead 1 group and a Left 4 Dead 2 group, that's a problem that we need to figure out."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-left-4-dead-2-hands-on
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-valve-explains-l4d2-exclusivity

L31mr0d

I don't know why they didn't just break it up into modular DLC. Lets say the game sells for €40. Why not break that down into say €10 for the new weather, weapons and AI then €6 each for the campaigns.

Olterior

why r people so angry about l4d 2 ? fair nuf i fel in love wit first l4d , but new l4d sounds more exiting . and I know graphics arent as good ,but go on they still hav half a year to improve graphics (remember last l4d ? they reskinned the game like what 3 months before the release ?) . Be more optimistic, owners of original will be charged less for the new game 2 .it will be nothing more than expansion to the owners (price wise)

robby^5

L31mr0d wrote: »

I don't know why they didn't just break it up into modular DLC. Lets say the game sells for €40. Why not break that down into say €10 for the new weather, weapons and AI then €6 each for the campaigns.

So you'd be happy paying €40? That's pretty much what I paid for Left 4 Dead 1 on Steam iirc and I'd hazard a guess that Left 4 Dead 2 will come in at around the same price point as L4D did at launch. So this way they're saving us having to get everything separately and we don't wind up with half the player base not having access to some campaigns.

For the amount of content, 5 campaigns, new singleplayer story, plus all the updates, I don't think modular DLC/Expansion packs would have come out considerably cheaper than the price of a full game (on PC anyway, not sure about the pricing of L4D on 360) not to mention we wouldn't have gotten the new sinpleplayer experience being offered.

pixelburp wrote: »

This is why gamers aren't taken seriously as a consumer group / demographic. You wouldn't buy a music album where half of the tracks advertised aren't on the disc. You wouldn't go to a movie where half way through, the reel runs out. Yet with games we're supposedly happy to spend money on incomplete (or sometimes plain broken) products.

I don't think we're any less respected than a lot of other consumer groups. Take film for example, there are certain that studios pump out crappy film after crappy film which get slated by reviewers and still wind up making a killing at the box office... and people keep coming back for more. Gamers are no different than any other consumer group, we live in a consumer culture.

Maximilian

PirateShampoo wrote: »

And you my good sir are the reason why they can pull this crap and get away with it.

pixelburp wrote: »

This is why gamers aren't taken seriously as a consumer group / demographic. You wouldn't buy a music album where half of the tracks advertised aren't on the disc. You wouldn't go to a movie where half way through, the reel runs out. Yet with games we're supposedly happy to spend money on incomplete (or sometimes plain broken) products.

What can I say, I'm impatient and I love L4D. Any other game I probably wouldn't buy, were it incomplete. Now, calm down everyone. Besides, haven't you heard of the new EU Law re. broken videogames thats supposed to be on its way?

Overheal

Link?

So one of my parents decides to google me early this morning. I wake up and I get a message theyre following me on twitter. Wait a minute, how did they find my username? Actually thats still a very good question. But it also means they probably saw my steam community profile (which i never set to private) which as of late has had a largely inflated number of hours on it due to the Sourecop Achievement_idle program. They must think me some addict now.

Maximilian

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8044125.stm

Overheal

That doesnt mean crap. That would stop, say, Rockstar, from publishing Vice City with a glitch that stops players from getting over the bridge, and blocking them from over 70% of the game.

That would have no bearing on the L$D issue. The game functions normally and it will continue to receive bug updates in the same way CSS and 1.6 still get updates - 1.6 was last updated on April 22.

Its not legislation that will stop publishers from pulling a Halo 2 Ending. Or for not delivering new DLC.

Maximilian

No but it might have some bearing on games that are released broken, such as Empire Total War. That's even if it ever gets passed into law. I only mentioned that by the by. There's nothing to stop a developer providing poor value for money.

In the case of L4D, all I was saying is that the omission of the 2 versus campaigns didn't bother me too much, once I knew they were coming at some point. Same applies to L4D as far as I'm concerned, although apparently that's not going to be the case this time around.

pixelburp

Well as sure as eggs is eggs, a steam group is formed and fellow angry-internet-guys have massed:

http://www.moddb.com/news/l4d-community-on-the-rise

5uspect

More info:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/before-its-time-valve-explains-left-4-dead-sequel-to-ars.ars
Chet would like to see up to 16 charactors get together in the future. So will there be a L4D3 and L4D4?

OctavarIan

Can people seriously be so angry over this?

I refuse to believe they're annoyed because they expect this stuff to be patched in. The stuff Valve are promising with L4D2 is miles more complicated than anything in TF.

I mean, jesus mollycoddling christ, it's a $50 game by Valve, you know it's going to be quality. Are gamers really that stuck up their own arses nowadays that they'd honestly complain about this? What the hell has happened to the gaming community? I really feel this is just one big case of jump-on-the-bandwagon.

Kinetic^

Up until this point Valve have gone against what every other developer has done by releasing games and then working with the community for years. I really hope this doesn't set a precedent for the way Valve intend on moving forward with their development.

Overheal

It shouldnt according to the Ars Technica interview:

So the [Left4Dead] team brought their concepts and ideas to create a sequel to Gabe Newell [Founder and Managing Director of Valve], and even he was skeptical about the idea. According to Faliszek, he expressed his doubts, and claimed this move was against the character of the company. "To Gabe's credit, and he's a great guy to work for, he said if this is what you want to do, if this is what you're excited about, go do it."

pixelburp

OctavarIan wrote: »

Can people seriously be so angry over this?

I refuse to believe they're annoyed because they expect this stuff to be patched in. The stuff Valve are promising with L4D2 is miles more complicated than anything in TF.

I mean, jesus mollycoddling christ, it's a $50 game by Valve, you know it's going to be quality. Are gamers really that stuck up their own arses nowadays that they'd honestly complain about this? What the hell has happened to the gaming community? I really feel this is just one big case of jump-on-the-bandwagon.

TF2 was released as part of a 5 games-in-one, €50 package. It now costs under 20 quid when Valve aren't running their free-play weekends. For that you get a constantly updated game with new maps, game-modes, weapons & patches. Just watch the "Meet the Spy" video to see how much care & attention TF2 gets; a video that coincided with a substantial update to the game. Tf2 is almost 2 years old

Left4Dead 1 was released as a full-price €50 game (admittedly is currently €30), and has only received one major content update. The initial release, less than a year ago (remember, this game is less than one year old ffs) made promises that its slight content would be updated, TF2 style. This patently has not happened & instead have opted to release said new content as another full price game. Pretty mercenary by any standards.

Valmont

Left4dead was so repetitive that after 2 months I hated it. It had potential however, and I definitely welcome the idea of a sequel that switches things up every now and then.

Although I won't be happy until I play at least 1 game per play that isn't me and 3 total retards. Seriously, the quality of gaming companions ruined it for me, I constantly felt held back. I'm not even that good either.

BlitzKrieg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQe4tlsfRbY

thelordofcheese

Overheal wrote: »

.... L$D .....

Your shift key seems to be broken.

Overheal

it works fine.

thelordofcheese

Overheal wrote: »

it works fine.

That's a shame, because the only other alternative is you're mistyping L4D like that because you think it's clever.


Oh, dear......

wes

I have to say I am surprised at the outrage at this. I guess I am use to the yearly Call of Duty games. To be honest I am not to bothered about this. but as I said, I have gotten use to it due to the constant COD releases.