Left 4 Dead... 2.

Otacon

wes wrote: »

I have to say I am surprised at the outrage at this. I guess I am use to the yearly Call of Duty games. To be honest I am not to bothered about this. but as I said, I have gotten use to it due to the constant COD releases.

I don't think the issue is that it is a yearly sequel game. The issue is that its a Valve [read: Value] yearly sequel game. People expect more from them. Whether that is right or wrong is debatable.

Maximilian

I have to laugh at all of this. There's now a boycott campaign going?

It's one thing to be annoyed at valve/steam for something like the $=€ thing, because it's forced upon you and is manifestly unfair. It's another to be annoyed at them for making a sequel, which you can elect not to buy. The internet has a say in what Valve can and cannot do now? Awesome. I want X-wing vs. Monkey Island Laser Sharks please. Nao.

They've already said they will continue to support L4D1 and there's no evidence yet to show this to be false. Hysterical Internet Shriekers don't care about this though. I imagine the SDK will see lots of new fan made campaigns, which will work on either game. I've seen some of the levels being made and they look amazing. I also think that many of the improvements to come in L4D2 will make their way into the first game too, such as AI Director 2.0. They've also said they are looking for a way to integrate both games in some way.

TF2 has seen lots of free content but that's been around what, 2 years? L4D hasn't even been out a year. Who knows what will be available for it in another year's time.

So, really, it boils down to peoples expectations that they will always get vast quantities of free stuff from Valve. I presume people should boycott Portal 2 as well, because the original game was so short and there's been no extra cake or laser sharks.

In short, you're all towels.

PirateShampoo

And in short they re-skinned the characters and wepons, and made 5 new maps which is fairly easy to do.

Any good modder can do that.

50 euro please.

5uspect

Well no. There's also the new special infected with their new damage mechanic to point out just one thing.
Did you read the interview with Chet?

Stephen

Its 5 new campaigns, not 5 new maps.

5uspect

Not to mention that the AiD 2.0 will control sections of your path through the new maps.
The garden maze in the demo video I think was an example.

Overheal

I wonder how complicated that is though. Whether they just built 3 or 4 "prefabs" for the cemetery and let the AiD pick from them, or if the AiD really gets to build it from scratch every time.

Maximilian

Overheal wrote: »

I wonder how complicated that is though. Whether they just built 3 or 4 "prefabs" for the cemetery and let the AiD pick from them, or if the AiD really gets to build it from scratch every time.

I got the impression from one of the interviews that it creates a kind of random path. Who knows.

daveyboy_1ie

L4D the first one is a fantastic game and Valve have made some numpties over the 4 years but they set the bar with this one. Not sure aboutt he new one, as it seems very fast for a sequel but am sure I will be giving it a bash.

anyone else use Steam to but their games? is it just me ir are they the greatest con artists EVER I would rather buy the games off junkies in Dublin City centre than use them again yet thay have pretty much cornered the market with Valve games, unless you buy the Media.

5uspect

I would imagine that these sections are like a maze with the option to open any number of doors so that there is at least one solution through it. So you could have an office buliding or Hosptial like previously that is now partially collasped or on fire. Stairs, lift shafts and corridors could be blocked or opened at random. I would doubt that every solution would open the entire map to the player but you get to know all of it on repeated plays.

SeantheMan

So much speculation here .... ppl nearly reviewing and condeming the game before they've even played it.

Am i the only one happy to wait for its release, buy it, and then judge it on its own merits ??

I like valve, i think they are possibly one of the greatest developers out there today. Half Life2, Portal, L4D, Team Fortress 2

I'll trust their judgement, I'm sure L4D2 will be a fine piece of art as their games usually are

Stephen

Doug Lombardi wrote:

"It's definitely not the case that we're closing the book on L4D and saying, 'Next time you get anything is when the sequel comes out,'" Lombardi told Rock Paper Shotgun.

"Stay tuned, there's more coming - there's more information we're going to talk about for the sequel, there's more content coming for Left 4 Dead in the fairly near term.

"I think the short answer is: trust us a little bit," he added. "We've been pretty good over the years - even with L4D going back just a few months - about supporting games post-launch."

via Eurogamer.

BlitzKrieg

maybe they should take a leaf from relic and just opt for stand alone add on pack rather then calling it a sequel?

Overheal

True, I dont think as many people would be complaining if it wasnt being marketed as a full sequel but rather a sidequel, or L4D: Episode One. The thing is, the big stick in the mud is that they are beginning to say when you buy L4D2 you will have access to all the L4D1 content. Particularly, the original 4 campaigns/movies.

I don't think in the Dawn of War example, they would have done themselves many favors with the crowd if Winter Assault included the original campaign, and Dark Crusade as well, included the previous 2 campaigns.

BlitzKrieg

they would have done themselves many favors with the crowd if Winter Assault included the original campaign, and Dark Crusade as well, included the previous 2 campaigns.

True, but someone who doesnt own 40K can go out and buy all the add on packs + dow as a single full priced game, while someone who owns DOW can go and buy dark crusade on its own at a much cheaper price.


IF they do the same here, owners of L4D can get all of 2's content at the price of 20 euro while newcomers can get both for 39.99 (not real prices just examples)

Maximilian

Overheal wrote: »

True, I dont think as many people would be complaining if it wasnt being marketed as a full sequel but rather a sidequel, or L4D: Episode One. The thing is, the big stick in the mud is that they are beginning to say when you buy L4D2 you will have access to all the L4D1 content. Particularly, the original 4 campaigns/movies.

I don't think in the Dawn of War example, they would have done themselves many favors with the crowd if Winter Assault included the original campaign, and Dark Crusade as well, included the previous 2 campaigns.

By that rationale, people should get angry whenever games are "on sale". OMG I paid €50 on release now its only €30. So what if some or all L4D1 content is included in No.2? I bought an iphone now a better iphone is coming out. it's not fair etc. Is everyone on glue?

So a sequel is ok as long as it's not actually called a sequel? wtf?

Internet + semantics = fail.

Still towels.

Overheal

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

IF they do the same here, owners of L4D can get all of 2's content at the price of 20 euro while newcomers can get both for 39.99 (not real prices just examples)

If they did. That would at least be sensible. Sell one version that requires the original in your account at a lower price, and have a higher price version if you dont, which has the content of both. For the consoles it could have easilly been treated like the Halo Map Pack; where the new campaigns/AiD files would sit on your console's hard drive and interface with your original L4D game disc. The same way games have been interacting with PCs since the dawn of CD-ROM.

By that rationale, people should get angry whenever games are "on sale". OMG I paid €50 on release now its only €30. So what if some or all L4D1 content is included in No.2? I bought an iphone now a better iphone is coming out. it's not fair etc. Is everyone on glue?

So a sequel is ok as long as it's not actually called a sequel? wtf?

Apples and Lemons. I have no idea where you linked my argument to depreciation.

As for the latter: if they had said sure, we'll be releasing a sequel/expansion next year, that would have been fine. They didn't. They stated point blank they intend to release New Maps, New Monsters, New Weapons, and Further Updates, to L4D, post-launch. Simply put, they made illusions to what they were selling people.

This video's ... well, sensationalized grossly. But it points out where the hate is coming from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM

5uspect

How does L4D2 coming out prevent Valve releasing new Campaigns/weapons for L4D?
Valve acknowledge that this is a change of plan but say they will continue to support L4D.
I've little reason to doubt them.

Cunny-Funt

So you think TF2 would be the same as it is now, if TF3 came out a year after TF2 was released? I don't.

Kirby

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

So you think TF2 would be the same as it is now, if TF3 came out a year after TF2 was released? I don't.

This

Maximilian

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

So you think TF2 would be the same as it is now, if TF3 came out a year after TF2 was released? I don't.

How would it be? Nobody can answer that question. All I hear on this whole thing is speculation, conjecture and presumption.

Kirby

Wildly speculating is not the same as logical deduction.

There is no money in supporting a previous game in a series, therefore it wont be done. Everytime Team fortress gets an update, old fans swarm back to it, it gets loads of e-media attention and NEW users buy it. Thats why they do it.

Nobody will give two hoots about original L4D improvements when the "sequel" is already out, or coming out. They are telling lies, and everyone knows it. What they are saying now is just backtracking in response to the backlash of the consumers. Its PR talk. Its clever and expected but its as abvious as hell.

They are a business, they are acting like one. Its within their right to do so. Its also in the consumers right to call them out over it and not buy it.

pixelburp

By Valve's own admission, every time they run a TF2 Free Play Weekend, sales sky-rocket. I believe the last time they did one (the one before the Spy update that is), the subsequent percentage of sales jumped by 700%.

It's not like TF2 hasn't shown itself to be a runaway success, both financially and within the culture of gaming in general.

SeantheMan

But is it not fair to say that at that stage Most TF2 players had the game already, so the sales figures in the weeks prior to the Free weekend would have been minimal. Just people trickling in to see what its like due to hearsay or seeing it on Steam.

Then with the massive publicity as you say , sales would have gone up x7. But probably still only a small number of people ...e.g (10->70)

Maximilian

Kirby wrote: »

Wildly speculating is not the same as logical deduction.

There is no money in supporting a previous game in a series, therefore it wont be done. Everytime Team fortress gets an update, old fans swarm back to it, it gets loads of e-media attention and NEW users buy it. Thats why they do it.

Nobody will give two hoots about original L4D improvements when the "sequel" is already out, or coming out. They are telling lies, and everyone knows it. What they are saying now is just backtracking in response to the backlash of the consumers. Its PR talk. Its clever and expected but its as abvious as hell.

They are a business, they are acting like one. Its within their right to do so. Its also in the consumers right to call them out over it and not buy it.

I'm not so sure. Look at how many people still play CS 1.6. Almost as much as CS: Source and still more than double those that play TF2. So where's the logic? The original CS should be dead and buried no?

I don't think L4D2 will kill its predecessor. not by long shot.

pixelburp

Maximilian wrote: »

I'm not so sure. Look at how many people still play CS 1.6. Almost as much as CS: Source and still more than double those that play TF2. So where's the logic? The original CS should be dead and buried no?

I don't think L4D2 will kill its predecessor. not by long shot.

But again the precedent exists that L4D1 & 2 will be separated by only a year. The original CS built up a community over the course of ... what? 5, 6 years? More?

Creature

Personally I don't give a hoot about Valve releasing L4D2 as a full price sequel. L4D1 still is one of the most fun games I've ever played and was ludicrously good value for money considering how much I've got out of it. Bring it on I say.

Maximilian

pixelburp wrote: »

But again the precedent exists that L4D1 & 2 will be separated by only a year. The original CS built up a community over the course of ... what? 5, 6 years? More?

If anything I imagine that will work in L4D1's favour than against. But you're right in that nobody knows what will happen. So really much of this discussion is completely premature.

Shiminay

Quake 2 came out and QuakeWorld was still the more popular and development still continued for it. Similarly for CS1.5 and CS:S as mentioned above. I'm not all that worried that nothing more will happen for L4D because of this.

I'd like to see an option to buy L4D2 (now it sounds like an Astromech droid lol) through Steam at a reduced price cause I own the first one - but I don't expect it to happen.

Kirby

Maximilian wrote: »

I'm not so sure. Look at how many people still play CS 1.6. Almost as much as CS: Source and still more than double those that play TF2. So where's the logic? The original CS should be dead and buried no?

I don't think L4D2 will kill its predecessor. not by long shot.

You have missed the logic. L4D is only out about a year before we see L4D2. Left for dead 2 runs on the exact same engine.

Counter-strike was around for several years. It was updated to 1.3, and then again to 1.5 with patching throughout the years. Then, they released 1.6. For FREE.

CS 1.6 was a brand NEW engine. They rebuilt the game. And gave it out for free if you had bought the original CS years back.

By the time CS:Source was released, another new engine, about 5 years had passed since the original purchase. See what I'm saying?

Obviously, times have changed and we live in an era of consumer gouging DLC. But this isnt even DLC. They are passing off an add-on pack as a full retail game.

They are more than welcome to try and it will probably sell decently. But just like the Horse armour, the street fighter 4 Costumes, and the resident evil 5 multiplayer code..... If you try and treat me like an idiot I am going spend my money elsewhere.