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Immigration.

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24567…11

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    #32
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #33
    lmtduffy
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭lmtduffy


    Joe C wrote: »
    It seems to have one for asylum seekers - when we cut the entitlement to child benefit for asylum seekers the numbers claiming asylum here halved from one year to the next.

    an actual link, would save us some time.


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    #34
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    There were 4,790 applications for asylum last year. Of which 1,465 were granted. This is only slightly higher than the EU average. In the grand scheme of things I don't see it to be a major problem.


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    #35
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Hmm you see here is the thing I would not consider anyone from the EC a migrant anymore than someone from cork living in Dublin. In essence you(An irish national) can live in any of the EC source countries and work and stay as long as you want.

    Pre 2006 we badly needed these workers to help us build houses for each other and sell them at over inflated prices and to fill jobs that employers badly needed people to fill. They are not entitled to benefits for the first two years so they are no drain on the economy. Often if they do not find work they go to the UK or back home.

    I will admit I had reservations about the amount of foriegn reg low insured or none insured vehicles but in essence as usual. Our own politicans did not draft any legislation to address the issue as they so often dont. Ergo the police could not tackle it. So it was irelands fault more the the new arrivals.

    In light of Non EC arrivals yes we all read the official figures on asylum seekers and they are low but the average man on the street has been given no explanation as to why there has been such a change in the demographic of Dublin and other areas. So he/she resorts to the only answer they have they must be asylum seekers.

    Legislation would not be this lax if by law new AS had to live in suburbs where TDs live. You see the people who decide that there is no change in the demgraphic or that "people" should be more welcoming are often the people most removed from it.

    So I would say Ireland has had no real mass immigration it has had an expansion of its economic borders and a failure to address or clarify its own Asylum policy. In fact I would sum up the irish goverments attitude to migration as the following.

    "Sure it will be grand"

    However the policy was widely in use in most areas...


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    #36
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Roughly.....How much do they constitute as a percentage, over the last 10-15 years? If you're that concerned, surely you know....?


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    #37
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Let me lay down a clear marker here: on this forum, we draw a clear distinction between asylum seekers, refugees (asylum seekers who have been successful in their application), and immigrants.

    The thread topic is "immigrants". Any discussion of asylum seekers or refugees is off-topic.


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    #38
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    O'Morris wrote: »
    How long did it take for them to reach 32% of the total non-Irish population?
    Don't know.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    For how many years before the 2006 census did we have large-scale immigration from eastern Europe?
    Don't know. What's your point?


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    #39
    Joe C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭Joe C


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Let me lay down a clear marker here: on this forum, we draw a clear distinction between asylum seekers, refugees (asylum seekers who have been successful in their application), and immigrants.

    The thread topic is "immigrants". Any discussion of asylum seekers or refugees is off-topic.

    I think your distinction is a false one.

    If the dictionary definition of an immigrant is : "a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there" , then a good chunk of asylum seekers fit into the category.


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    #40
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Consider it an arbitrary distinction, so. It's still the distinction by which this forum is moderated.

    Back on topic.


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    #41
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,258 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Is immigration a growing concern in Ireland?
    Yes, for the past 2000 years, starting with late 4th Century arrival of Christians like Palladius, then early 5th Century St Paddy, causing a real concern among us pagans! Now don't mention the Vikings or Brits, along with a host of others since!;)


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    #42
    Joe C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭Joe C


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Consider it an arbitrary distinction, so. It's still the distinction by which this forum is moderated.

    Back on topic.

    I'll still consider it a false distinction to be honest.

    Anyway to get back on topic, nobody has mentioned how the student visa system has been used to get a lot of non EU citizens into the work force.

    It's another route used to get around the normal work visa system.

    Zambia is correct, there's absolutely no policy in place when it comes to Immigration.


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    #43
    markopantelic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 538 ✭✭✭markopantelic


    I would like to see more immigration of families. I think perhaps in 10 years time we will have to write up our immigration proposals, and by that time there could be a 'blue card' EU wide immigration system, like the green card in usa.


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    #44
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    djpbarry wrote:
    Don't know. What's your point?

    I was responding to your point that east Europeans only made up 32% of the total non-national population. I think it's worth remembering that the 2006 census was carried out just over two years after large-scale immigration from eastern Europe into this country began. That such a rapid growth in our non-national population could have occurred in the space of just over two years goes to show that what we've had in this country over the last few years has been mass immigration. There's no other term for it.

    Question for you old horse, if the Eastern Europeans made up 32% of the total immigrant population after just two years and if it has been over 2 years since the last census, what should we expect their current percentage to be? Isn't there reason to assume that the 32% figure might be a bit out of date?


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    #45
    Dan Akroyd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Dan Akroyd


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Consider it an arbitrary distinction, so. It's still the distinction by which this forum is moderated.

    Back on topic.

    Were you born a complete and utter arsehole or did you have to work on it?


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    #46
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Dan Akroyd wrote: »
    Were you born a complete and utter arsehole or did you have to work on it?
    Why don't you spend your month's holiday from this forum trying to figure that out for yourself?


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    #47
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    O'Morris wrote: »
    For how many years before the 2006 census did we have large-scale immigration from eastern Europe?
    May 2004 was the East Europeans, Romanians / Albanians / Nigerians 1999 to 2005.


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    #48
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    O'Morris wrote: »
    I was responding to your point that east Europeans only made up 32% of the total non-national population. I think it's worth remembering that the 2006 census was carried out just over two years after large-scale immigration from eastern Europe into this country began. That such a rapid growth in our non-national population could have occurred in the space of just over two years goes to show that what we've had in this country over the last few years has been mass immigration. There's no other term for it.

    Question for you old horse, if the Eastern Europeans made up 32% of the total immigrant population after just two years and if it has been over 2 years since the last census, what should we expect their current percentage to be? Isn't there reason to assume that the 32% figure might be a bit out of date?

    In 2008 there was a 55%, 43%, 40% and 36% drop in PPS numbers issued to Romanians, Polish, Lithuanian and Solvakians repectively. The general trend is the rate of immigrants entering the country is decreasing and those leaving is increasing. This can only have excelerated in the past 6 months and I see no reason for it to change until the upturn in the economy begins.

    http://www.herald.ie/national-news/100000-workers-leave-ireland-as-pressure-on-jobs-grows-1587316.html


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    #49
    markopantelic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 538 ✭✭✭markopantelic


    yeah if i was a citizen of th eu and moved here, had no hopes i'd be straight down to the south of spain, no problem lol


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    #50
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Joe C wrote: »
    …there's absolutely no policy in place when it comes to Immigration.
    The recent changes to eligibility for work permits would seem to suggest otherwise.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    Isn't there reason to assume that the 32% figure might be a bit out of date?
    Maybe, but they’re still the most accurate figures that we have at our disposal.


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    #51
    esharknz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 267 ✭✭esharknz


    I think some people should actually see how hard it is to get a work permit before they start spouting off that it's easy!


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    #52
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    deadhead13 wrote:
    In 2008 there was a 55%, 43%, 40% and 36% drop in PPS numbers issued to Romanians, Polish, Lithuanian and Solvakians repectively.

    It's not enough. Immigration into Ireland has been so high over the last few years that a fall of 60% will not be enough to bring us down to the EU average. According to wikipedia, net migration into Ireland last year (here) was 14 immigrants per 1000 people. The latest figures I've seen for Germany (here) show that their rate for 2007 was 0.49 migrants per 1000 people. Even if immigration into Ireland fell to only 20% of last year's level we would still be taking in more than twice as many immigrants per head of population as Germany. And this is in the middle of a severe recession.

    We're still taking in far too many people for a country of our size. I would like to see us taking in only as many immigrants per head of population as our European neighbours are taking in. We're nowhere near that level yet.

    djpbarry wrote:
    Maybe,

    There's no maybe about it. The census figures from the 2006 census are out of date.


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    #53
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Immigration into Ireland has been so high over the last few years that a fall of 60% will not be enough to bring us down to the EU average.
    The EU average of intra-EU migration of EU nationals is (by definition) zero. In other words, it’s meaningless.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    According to wikipedia, net migration into Ireland last year (here) was 14 immigrants per 1000 people. The latest figures I've seen for Germany (here) show that their rate for 2007 was 0.49 migrants per 1000 people.
    According to Wikipedia, Ireland has an unemployment rate of 6.6% and a GDP growth rate of 4.7%.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    We're still taking in far too many people for a country of our size.
    How many people are we taking in?
    O'Morris wrote: »
    The census figures from the 2006 census are out of date.
    This coming from the guy using Wikipedia to back up his argument. Well, you best tell the likes of the ESRI and CSO who are still producing reports based on the 2006 census data.


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    #54
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    O'Morris wrote: »
    It's not enough. Immigration into Ireland has been so high over the last few years that a fall of 60% will not be enough to bring us down to the EU average. According to wikipedia, net migration into Ireland last year (here) was 14 immigrants per 1000 people. The latest figures I've seen for Germany (here) show that their rate for 2007 was 0.49 migrants per 1000 people. Even if immigration into Ireland fell to only 20% of last year's level we would still be taking in more than twice as many immigrants per head of population as Germany. And this is in the middle of a severe recession.






    140,000 PPS numbers were issued to foreign nationals last year, which is 50,000 less than 2007. 100,000 left the country. That is a net of 40,000 (admittly this does not include dependents) which is nowhere near 14 per 1000. The amount of PPS numbers issued does not show how many of those people still remain in the country.


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    #55
    markopantelic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 538 ✭✭✭markopantelic


    Its not easy to get into this country, my best friend was outrageously not able to stay in the country yet the whole family were completely integrated and were such a great benefit to this country. I hated the nation a little bit more since then.


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    #56
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    140,000 PPS numbers were issued to foreign nationals last year, which is 50,000 less than 2007. 100,000 left the country. That is a net of 40,000 (admittly this does not include dependents) which is nowhere near 14 per 1000. The amount of PPS numbers issued does not show how many of those people still remain in the country.


    Where did you get the number of 100,000 people leaving? The government are not producing proper stats to keep up with sitiuation. I would say on purpose.

    As for immigration, we need an actual policy.
    The neo-liberals who where calling for no regulation of the banks a few years ago. Are now calling for no regulation of immigration.
    We need to let in workers of high skills(ie doctors, engineers etc.) and stop letting in just anybody.
    We have it upside down at the moment, if you are going for a job in Macdonalds you will be competing with workers from all over the world.
    If you are an incompetent economist at a bank your job is safe.

    At the moment the Echo boys in cork are grown men. Surely it is time to cerry pick who we let in.


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    #57
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    The recent changes in immigration policy by Fianna Fail show their pure gombeenism. Only 1.5% of our workforce are non EU nationals. They are making a political football out of them, scapegoats if you will. They know immigration is an issue and will use this as "evidence" at the doorsteps of the party getting tough on the issue.

    While I welcome the changes, the non EU nationals living here should be exempt. Although a work permit is just that, a permit to work here for x amount of years and not a residency permit. The government should make an allowance for those already living in the country.


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    #58
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    markopantelic wrote: »
    Its not easy to get into this country, my best friend was outrageously not able to stay in the country yet the whole family were completely integrated and were such a great benefit to this country. I hated the nation a little bit more since then.

    If you are going to make claims at least inform us of the circumstances.


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    #59
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Where did you get the number of 100,000 people leaving?

    The link in post 48.


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    #60
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    I should mention a point that a lot of immigrants are students who are paying tons of fees to study in colleges here.
    If you ever see that immigration office during sep-oct when the colleges open, you'll get an idea of how many immigrants are in the country as students.

    This brings in a lot of revenue into the country and if the student immigration was cut off, Ireland would lose tons of revenue and would be in a lot more trouble than it is with immigration.


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    #61
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    I should mention a point that a lot of immigrants are students who are paying tons of fees to study in colleges here.
    If you ever see that immigration office during sep-oct when the colleges open, you'll get an idea of how many immigrants are in the country as students.

    This brings in a lot of revenue into the country and if the student immigration was cut off, Ireland would lose tons of revenue and would be in a lot more trouble than it is with immigration.

    What percentage of our immigrant population are students? 1%? You do realise EU citizens have the right to claim grants, just as Irish citizens. You do realise a lot of these "language schools" are completely bogus and set up so non EU citizens can work here. Another loophole, my friend.


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