Immigration.

esharknz

ionix5891 wrote: »

to any immigrants reading this

you have the right to vote in local elections today

bring your green card and any other id

(provided you got a voting card in mail)

Going to do so.
When the enrolment officer called around, he basically walked away when he heard my (what might sound Australian) accent. Told him to get back here and give me an enrolment card.

Then in town on saturday doing my shopping, I was completely ignored by Fianna Fail campaigners (all over my husband to be) and was subjected to snide "don't bother they are a foreigner" comments from them. I nearly EXPLODED.

I don't see what the problem is with people who work hard and contribute. I don't like people claiming social welfare because they don't want to work, but I don't point my finger at the foreigners really as I know plenty of citizens abuse it as well. Although I didn't think my parents were amused when herself next door (irish) suggested to my mother that she should rip off the DPB (lone parents benefit) just as she was.

SWL

djpbarry wrote: »

I think this subject is more suited to the Popular Science forum.
Based on?
Did you report the employer in question?
:rolleyes: More about the “unskilled workers” who are apparently commodities to be bought and sold.

you're missing the point conveniently I would suggest, just because your family members don't have qualification (I am assuming your parent etc, all form a pervious generation where education and its benefits were viewed differently) best of luck trying getting a position as an account engineer doctor without qualifications, unskilled workers are ten a penny unfortunate for those who couldn't be bothered to get skills but its a fact.

You’re obviously not looking very hard. Polish people in Ireland are about as likely to hold a third-level qualification as Irish people are.

Have you statistics to back this up - I find it hard to believe during a construction boom not to find an engineer from Poland in Ireland, or a doctor I have meet several doctors and other medical professionals from non EU countries so position are available why are they not filled from EE if so many are qualified.

Amalgam

djpbarry wrote: »

Did you report the employer in question?

Sadly no. Non unionised **** hole employer, I needed the reference at the time and the money.. Sometimes you're treated so shabbily that you almost get used to it.

In any case there were workers that would then feed their frustration at the employer back onto whatever European workers that were working alongside them. (mind you, the European workers were no less xenophobic themselves..)

djpbarry

SWL wrote: »

you're missing the point conveniently I would suggest … best of luck trying getting a position as an account engineer doctor without qualifications...

I think it is you who is missing the point; qualifications are not the be-all and end-all as some people here are trying to make out. But then, I think we all know that, since most Irish people don’t have any qualifications of note.

SWL wrote: »

Have you statistics to back this up - I find it hard to believe during a construction boom not to find an engineer from Poland in Ireland…

Non-Irish Nationals Living in Ireland, CSO, June 2008:

More than a quarter of the 49,014 aged 15 or over whose education was finished had completed third level courses at degree or higher level. A further 1,671 completed non-degree courses and 26,625 completed upper secondary level education. A quarter of third level qualifications among Polish males were in engineering, manufacturing or construction. The third level qualifications of a third of Polish females were in social science, business or law.

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/population/non-irish/nonirishnationalscomplete.pdf

SWL

SWL wrote: »

I have meet several doctors and other medical professionals from non EU countries so position are available why are they not filled from EE if so many are qualified.

They emmigrate to Australia,new zealand and Canada where they are recruited to better pay,conditions,cost of living,lifestyle and weather.

Ironic isn't it..

SWL

djpbarry wrote: »

I think it is you who is missing the point; qualifications are not the be-all and end-all as some people here are trying to make out. But then, I think we all know that, since most Irish people don’t have any qualifications of note.

Very odd statement to make considering your own profession, all Irish people I know have been to third level and work in their chosen professions such as Accounts, Doctors, Engineers, Tax experts etc, so qualification are the be-all and end-all as many people without them will find out as the recession continues.

SWL

Deleted User wrote: »

They emmigrate to Australia,new zealand and Canada where they are recruited to better pay,conditions,cost of living,lifestyle and weather.

Ironic isn't it..

Funny having lived in Australia - never meet them there either and my partner is a doctor

djpbarry

SWL wrote: »

Very odd statement to make considering your own profession...

My own profession?

SWL wrote: »

...all Irish people I know have been to third level...

Which would put them in the minority among Irish people.

Let me ask you this. Imagine for a second that you are an employer attempting to fill a particular position; would you screen the candidates based on their qualifications alone? I know I wouldn't. In fact, I wouldn't even prioritise qualifications.

O'Coonassa

djpbarry wrote: »

I think this subject is more suited to the Popular Science forum.

That's not a subject really it's laughable BNP fiction and propaganda. By it's reasoning the Innuit should be our seal eating overlords :pac:

O'Morris

O'Coonassa wrote: »

That's not a subject really it's laughable BNP fiction and propaganda. By it's reasoning the Innuit should be our seal eating overlords :pac:

The environment the innuit developed in was cold but it wasn't as intellectually demanding as the ice age environment that our ancestors developed in. The reason Europeans and east Asians are so intelligent is because intelligence had a survival advantage for our ancestors that it didn't have for people in other parts of the world.

Nodin

O'Morris wrote: »

The environment the innuit developed in was cold but it wasn't as intellectually demanding as the ice age environment that our ancestors developed in. The reason Europeans and east Asians are so intelligent is because intelligence had a survival advantage for our ancestors that it didn't have for people in other parts of the world.

Yes, and presumably the civillisations of the mediterranean, Indus river valley and Egypt etc arose because they too were stimulated by the glaciers all about them.


Isn't there a quackery forum somewhere for this sort of nonsense?

ionix5891

O'Morris wrote: »

The environment the innuit developed in was cold but it wasn't as intellectually demanding as the ice age environment that our ancestors developed in. The reason Europeans and east Asians are so intelligent is because intelligence had a survival advantage for our ancestors that it didn't have for people in other parts of the world.

wow just wow :eek:


EDIT: btw how would you feel about chineese/vietnamese/korean/thai/japanese immigrants to ireland

sovtek

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm not sure where you got your figure from. If you really are that bothered by how much is spent on asylum seekers then maybe you should be ranting against the default refusals that all asylum seekers get which is what forces them into the courts and what costs so much.
I'm saying this on the day that I have to go to the GNIB to be abused by some ignorant **** who is going to treat me like an animal and charge me €150 for the privilege (even though my work permit expires next year). This is after waiting over two years for my LTR application to be processed. If it was up to me those asylum seekers can have every penny and idiots that bitch ab out foreignors in their country can kiss my ass.
Otherwise immigrants contribute far more than they can take away. Since I'm on of those who gets very little in return for what i contribute I can tell you it doesn't bother me that much. I'm more worried about how much criminal bankers and the politicians who protect them cost this country. But I know that's OT.

sovtek

esharknz wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is with people who work hard and contribute. I don't like people claiming social welfare because they don't want to work, but I don't point my finger at the foreigners really as I know plenty of citizens abuse it as well. Although I didn't think my parents were amused when herself next door (irish) suggested to my mother that she should rip off the DPB (lone parents benefit) just as she was.

Most of the people that claim social welfare want to work but there are no jobs. I came close to having to myself at one point in my nine years in this country. Luckily I didn't have to because it would have been held against me for LTR or citizenship.

esharknz

sovtek wrote: »

Most of the people that claim social welfare want to work but there are no jobs. I came close to having to myself at one point in my nine years in this country. Luckily I didn't have to because it would have been held against me for LTR or citizenship.

I'm not slating those who have no other option but to claim it. I fully understand this situation.

sovtek

Riskymove wrote: »

As I see it when people say Eastern European with regard to immigrants they mean both EU (polish etc) and non-EU (Russian etc) although entitlements are different

according to Census 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish in Ireland

112k - UK
163k - Rest of EU
24k - Rest of Europe
35k - Africa
46k - Asian
21k - American
16k - other
45k - Not-stated

Even allowing for the not-stated Its clear EU makes up most of the number (275k)

Of course these are population figures so we don't know how many are here as immigrants or asylum seekers etc

I looked up the census and there were only 12k Americans under "resident in the state by nationality". If you take from country of birth you get 25k but people can be born in the US and not be a US citizen.

fly_agaric

sovtek wrote: »

If it was up to me those asylum seekers can have every penny and idiots that bitch ab out foreignors in their country can kiss my ass.

Good thing it's not so

sovtek wrote: »

Otherwise immigrants contribute far more than they can take away. Since I'm on of those who gets very little in return for what i contribute I can tell you it doesn't bother me that much.

A citizen says thanks for all the bile you contribute to the country [via boards.ie].
The banks may run out of money but Ireland will never run short of bile!:)

sovtek

esharknz wrote: »

I'm not slating those who have no other option but to claim it. I fully understand this situation.

Fair enough but it read to sound like everyone on the dole were spongers. It's a minority wether they be Irish or not.
The idea that people come to Ireland to sponge off the dole is ridiculous.

Serenity Now!

Taxipete29 wrote: »

There are racists in every country in the world, why would Ireland be any different??

Its not. Ireland just isn't used to having immigration hence the ignorance that surrounds the subject. May all their neighbours be Goldbergs, Khans, Kowolskis, Patels, Singhs and Ubogus.

sovtek

fly_agaric wrote: »

A citizen says thanks for all the bile you contribute to the country [via boards.ie].
The banks may run out of money but Ireland will never run short of bile!:)

..and if you kick all us foreignors out you'll still have plenty.

markopantelic

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Its not. Ireland just isn't used to having immigration hence the ignorance that surrounds the subject. May all their neighbours be Goldbergs, Khans, Kowolskis, Patels, Singhs and Ubogus.

Ah now, just because as a country thats not used to immigration doesn't mean we are anymore ignorant than anywhere else?

Look at the USA for example, they pride themselves on being 'the nation of immigrants' yet you can see the crap they come out with there, Australia as well.

I don't disagree with you or anything I just don't think Ireland is much different. I will say though compared to other European countries like UK(England) or Netherlands we have had immigrants who have come here for the most part and want to assimilate, our 'values' haven't been 'threatened' as some think has occured in Netherlands and UK.

Countries are only tolerant when times are good, when times are bad human nature kicks in and people look for a scapegoat.

shoegirl

Frankly I feel immigration is a natural and a good thing. People always travelled the world and in an increasingly interconnected world it is inevitable.

To be honest I think there is a lot of hot air over migration because nobody wanted to come here for years, then suddenly we'd a few hundred thousand over the place of about 5 years. Although nobody really seems to know how many stayed and how many left.

Our problem is that intra-EEA migration is technically unlimited and we really don't know what the figures on this are. On the other hand, it works 2 ways and we shat hundreds of thousands onto the continent and UK for decades so its a little hypocritical.

On the other hand those coming from outside the EEA are very restricted by some pretty tight labour and migration laws and Ireland is not only no "soft touch", its really quite hard to come here on your own bat. The current laws on renewals are really harsh - I can see a lot of people's right to remain here being put in severe jeopardy by this change.

shoegirl

sovtek wrote: »

Fair enough but it read to sound like everyone on the dole were spongers. It's a minority wether they be Irish or not.
The idea that people come to Ireland to sponge off the dole is ridiculous.

You can't just come here and sponge, you need 2 years PRSI payments to do so. Technically such folks can apply to SWA but would probably still find it quite hard to get a serious hearing if they just arrive here and start claiming SWA.

Besides most of the people I know of who did this were transient Irish who'd been away from Ireland for years but never really achieved much for whatever reason. I know a fair few people who came back from bumming around Europe, the USA or Asia to a welfare lifestyle.

O'Coonassa

O'Morris wrote: »

The environment the innuit developed in was cold but it wasn't as intellectually demanding as the ice age environment that our ancestors developed in. The reason Europeans and east Asians are so intelligent is because intelligence had a survival advantage for our ancestors that it didn't have for people in other parts of the world.

When the ice came we moved to where it wasn't. Any monkey can be that 'intelligent'. The reason development happened faster on the Eurasian landmass is because there were no real geophysical barriers to the spread of technology. Don't mistake the quicker trajectory for 'intelligence', it has nothing to do with it.

Joe C

Riskymove wrote: »

As I see it when people say Eastern European with regard to immigrants they mean both EU (polish etc) and non-EU (Russian etc) although entitlements are different

according to Census 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish in Ireland

112k - UK
163k - Rest of EU
24k - Rest of Europe
35k - Africa
46k - Asian
21k - American
16k - other
45k - Not-stated

Even allowing for the not-stated Its clear EU makes up most of the number (275k)

Of course these are population figures so we don't know how many are here as immigrants or asylum seekers etc

Would it be fair to say that somewhere in the region of 10% of the population back then was non-Irish ?

In 2006 a prison population survey was done and found that almost 30% of the prison population was non-Irish. In 2007 that figure rose to 34%.

Can anyone shed any light on why the figures are so disproportionate ?

johnathan woss

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Have you heard of things like hydroponics and GMO's, magic beans? Have you heard how much food gets thrown away into bins? It's not that it can't be produced, huge surplus is produced at huge subsidy in many places.

Does your planet have hydrophonic systems that run on hot air rather than fertilisers and water ?
Or does your planet have an infinite supply of gas, oil, clean water, potassium and phosphorous?

Unfortunately back here on planet earth we have finite supplies.

I haven't even mentioned the fact that human over-population is destroying the biodiversity of the planet and that we are currently in the middle of a great extinction event.

djpbarry

Joe C wrote: »

In 2006 a prison population survey was done and found that almost 30% of the prison population was non-Irish.

Well according to the Irish Prison Service, almost 92% of of persons in custody under sentence on the 7th December 2006 were Irish (source; Table 11).

johnathan woss

djpbarry wrote: »

Originally Posted by Joe C
In 2006 a prison population survey was done and found that almost 30% of the prison population was non-Irish.
....................................................................

Well according to the Irish Prison Service, almost 92% of of persons in custody under sentence on the 7th December 2006 were Irish (source; Table 11).

Yes but your own source states that almost 30% of committals were foreign nationals so I would suspect that the actual percentage of crime committed by foreign nationals is somewhere between the two percentages.
It would help if more detailed statistics were published ..............

af_thefragile

johnathan woss wrote: »

Does your planet have hydrophonic systems that run on hot air rather than fertilisers and water ?
Or does your planet have an infinite supply of gas, oil, clean water, potassium and phosphorous?

Clean water, yes, there is an infinite supply.
Potassium and phosphorous are recycled. Where do you think they go? Just disappear into the thin air when you add them to the soil?
Scientific advances have produced many highly efficient ways of producing crops which can feed everyone on the planet. Only problem, it takes time and money. And as i mentioned, no one wants to spend the money.

Unfortunately back here on planet earth we have finite supplies.

Yup, earth is a finite system. Nothing usually leaves it, nothing usually adds to it. Hence everything in the planet is recycled material.
People grow crops, they eat crops, they **** out the crops, the poo acts as a fertilizer to grow crops again and the cycle continues. As long as the population is growing, more and more people are dying too. When they die, their body assimilates with the ground and the cycle continues. Its a closed system. It only depends on how we make use of it.

I haven't even mentioned the fact that human over-population is destroying the biodiversity of the planet and that we are currently in the middle of a great extinction event.

No. Its not the population that is destroying bio-diversity, its deforestation.

Now i can go on forever about deforestation. But to just give a short idea. Deforestation is the cause of all of earth's ecological problems.

Here's how things work.
Population grows. People use more fuel and so more CO2 in the air.
Now plants use CO2 as fuel/food for photosynthesis. As the CO2 in the air grows, the growth rate of plants grows too, reducing back the CO2 levels, maintaining a balance in the amount of CO2 in the air. Here no global warming or anything. Earth just heats up and cools in periodic cycles due to the wobble in the earths rotation.

Now here's what we're doing.
We want wood cuz we're too lazy to build synthetic materials and recycle what we already have. We also want more land cuz we want more cattle to graze. Rain forest countries (like Brazil) are mostly in debt, hence easier to exploit.
Now when you cut down the rainforest, you're chopping down Earth's lungs and destroying millions of animal's homes destroying earth's biodiversity as you like to call it. There aren't enough trees anymore to suck back in all the CO2 we're releasing in the air cuz although the trees are growing faster because of the excess CO2, we're chopping them down at a faster than they can act to reduce to the CO2 levels. Result, CO2 levels keep rising as there are less and less plants around. Global warming increases in a vicious cycle.
More CO2 = More heat = more evaporation from the seas = more water vapour in the air = further more heat = melting of ice caps = more water to absorb more heat and evaporate and less ice to reflect back solar radiation = further more heat... and the cycle continues.

All of this is happening because we're cutting down the trees. But you see, the government isn't gonna tell you that.
Cuz there's no money to be made there. You can't tax wood.
Its much easier to pick of fuels. Tax fossil fuels, bringing new "environmental taxes". Its all a big scheme for government to leech more money off the people and it does nothing to fight global warming.





This is what the government does. It always fights the symptoms but never targets the main cause of the problem.
Target immigration but do nothing bout the reduction in jobs. Target fossil fuels but do nothing about the cutting down of trees.

Taxipete29

markopantelic wrote: »

I don't disagree with you or anything I just don't think Ireland is much different. I will say though compared to other European countries like UK(England) or Netherlands we have had immigrants who have come here for the most part and want to assimilate, our 'values' haven't been 'threatened' as some think has occured in Netherlands and UK.

Countries are only tolerant when times are good, when times are bad human nature kicks in and people look for a scapegoat.

I have to disagree with this. Many immigrants have no desire to assimilate our values, but wish to bring their own with them and then trample on ours. The victim of racism card is well over played in this country.

Totally agree with the last comment. Its always been the way.