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Immigration.

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    #212
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    This convenient generalism aside from being wholly incorrect is just insulting. How the f**k is anyone to "integrate" with people who subscribe to the myth that immigrants create their own ghettos? :rolleyes:
    And then you come out with the "some of my best friends are black" parp?? lol

    Disgraceful and embarrassing.

    How dare you call me a liar. I have friends from many backgrounds. I have been speaking in facts. You are basically calling me racist here which I take excepiton to. Its very easy to level such accustaions from behind a keyboard. You are a cowardly scumbag. Try me face to face you prick

    Probably get a ban for this but I would rather not put forward any opinions if they are going to be twisted by idiots like you who think you are the only enlightened ones in the country


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    #213
    elli21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭elli21


    OH is a South African,living and working here for ten years.Worked alot of overtime last week and payed over 500 E in deductions...enough to support 2 1/2 scumbags on social welfare who never had a job and never intend to.Damn immigrants:rolleyes:


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    #214
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Immigrants typically settle in areas with people of their own ethnic and cultural background.
    Do they? So all the Poles in Dublin live in the same neighbourhood? All the Brits in another?
    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    The term Ghetto while generally a slang term refers to any area which is mainly populated by a minority group.

    Brixton is probably one of the best known examples of such an area...
    Which minority group mainly populates Brixton?
    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Allowing an over concentration of minority groups to settle in areas will ineveitably lead to racial tension and conflict.
    So what do we do about it? Tell people where they should live? Force Irish people to live in certain places in order to "redress the balance"?
    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    What I do have an issue with is parts of the city I was born, grew up in and live in becoming no go areas for ANY members of our society.
    Which areas are you referring to?
    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Just because you dont see a problem doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
    So you're not going to state what you mean by "integration"?


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    #215
    Sizzler
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    djpbarry wrote: »
    The subject of immigration comes up regularly in Dáil debates; how else would the recent changes to work permit entitlements have been made?
    I think you will find it was raised in the context of rising unemployment. These changes were a by product of live register numbers, hardly a comprehensive discussion on immigration policy :rolleyes:


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    #216
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    How dare you call me a liar. I have friends from many backgrounds. I have been speaking in facts. You are basically calling me racist here which I take excepiton to. Its very easy to level such accustaions from behind a keyboard. You are a cowardly scumbag. Try me face to face you prick

    Probably get a ban for this but I would rather not put forward any opinions if they are going to be twisted by idiots like you who think you are the only enlightened ones in the country

    Temper, temper fella and easy on the namecalling.

    I didn't call you a liar. I pointed out that these people, who according to you don't integrate, actually seem to have integrated with you. Anything outside this within your context of singling out entire demographics is a convenient generalism.

    Personally I take exception and call bullsh on your "ghettos" claim. Do point out some of these alleged ghettos. People have to live somewhere ffs :rolleyes:


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    #217
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    djpbarry wrote: »
    So you're not going to state what you mean by "integration"?

    People tend to avoid doing this and if on the rare occasion they do answer, you'll get some tosh about the 'culture' they are not partaking in without of course any divulgence on what this 'culture' entails.


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    #218
    Affable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭Affable


    markopantelic wrote: »


    I don't disagree with you or anything I just don't think Ireland is much different. I will say though compared to other European countries like UK(England) or Netherlands we have had immigrants who have come here for the most part and want to assimilate, our 'values' haven't been 'threatened' as some think has occured in Netherlands and UK.
    .

    Nott o mention Denmark, Sweden, France. But the problem there is Islam.
    Maybe you don't have many Islamic immigrants. Groups such as the Chinese/Caribbeans really integrate very smoothly indeed, although we don't have many chinese immigrants.


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    #219
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    but wish to bring their own with them and then trample on ours.

    'O Noes!!!!'

    Don't suppose you have any examples of this happening? And 'examples' doesn't mean anecdotes by the way....
    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Brixton is probably one of the best known examples of such an area and has been the scene of many high profile racial incidents over the years including several riots

    Three riots, all related to heavy handed policing and perceptions thereof.
    Affable wrote:
    Nott o mention Denmark, Sweden, France. But the problem there is Islam.

    The problem there is 9/10 tenths Islamophobia as far as I can see.


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    #220
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    O'Coonassa wrote: »
    If you're talking the birds and the bees and the nitrogen and water cycles and that nearby nuclear furance then it's all limitless and free until the sun goes out.


    On your planet you only use the natural nitrogen (huh?) and water cycles do you ? That's great.

    Unfortunately back here on Earth we synthesise vast amounts of nitrogen fertiliser from natural gas using the Haber-Bosch process and we are also depleting underground aquifers to provide water for our cities and for irrigation.

    It must be great on your planet with no borders, all love, and no resource depletion.


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    #221
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Sizzler wrote: »
    I think you will find it was raised in the context of rising unemployment. These changes were a by product of live register numbers, hardly a comprehensive discussion on immigration policy :rolleyes:
    So what is it exactly that you're looking for? What do you want to see debated in the Dail? Have you asked your local TD's to raise any questions?


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    #222
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    Ireland could sustain a relatively high population without fossil fuel inputs IMO.

    There is NO WAY the earth can sustain anything close to 7 billion people without fossil fuels.
    So the world needs fossil fuels but Ireland doesn't? Interesting. Gosh, we are a luck lot, aren't we?

    Still doesn't explain why you consider Ireland to be underpopulated while the world at large is overpopulated?


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    #223
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    Affable wrote: »
    Nott o mention Denmark, Sweden, France. But the problem there is Islam.
    Maybe you don't have many Islamic immigrants. Groups such as the Chinese/Caribbeans really integrate very smoothly indeed, although we don't have many chinese immigrants.

    I think it's unfair to just blame Islam for the problems in France.
    Alot of the muslims in France went there from North Africa after the French pulled out of colonies like Algeria as they were the ones that had SUPPORTED the French regime and feared the backlash from the more fundamentalist muslims.
    I am not an expert but from my reading they were treated very badly in France and thoroughly marginalised. It would seem to me that French society is more racist than British.
    In Britain the problem is more to do with hardline Islam but muslim immigrants come to Britain from more fundamentalist areas, i.e. Pakistan.


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    #224
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    djpbarry wrote: »
    So the world needs fossil fuels but Ireland doesn't? Interesting. Gosh, we are a luck lot, aren't we?

    Still doesn't explain why you consider Ireland to be underpopulated while the world at large is overpopulated?


    Maybe instead of being sarcastic you should sit back and THINK about what I'm saying.

    The world can't support 7 billion people without fossil fuels.
    Fossil fuels are finite.
    Therefore we have a problem.

    It is not a difficult concept to understand.

    I don't think Ireland is underpopulated but it is not as overpopulated as the world in general.
    Because of our arable land and favourable weather conditions we could feed a relatively large number of people without fossil fuels compared to most of the world. That doesn't mean Ireland is currently underpopulated.


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    #225
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    I apologise for my earlier ouburst. I take exception to being made out to be a liar and summarily a racist.

    Ghetto is quite an emotive term, but is in essence simply an area where large members of a minority group live. For most it implies no-go area, high crime etc.
    This is correct in some instances.

    Is it anecdotal to say that cribs were not placed in hospitals at christmas for fear of offending other religions???


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    #226
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    In Britain the problem is more to do with hardline Islam but muslim immigrants come to Britain from more fundamentalist areas, i.e. Pakistan.
    Pakistan's fundamentalist? When did that happen?


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    #227
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    Because of our arable land and favourable weather conditions we could feed a relatively large number of people without fossil fuels compared to most of the world.
    Could we? How?
    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Ghetto is quite an emotive term, but is in essence simply an area where large members of a minority group live.
    I wouldn’t necessarily say “emotive”; it’s just another one of those words that gets thrown around an awful lot without being clearly defined. Could you identify a potential ghetto in Ireland?


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    #228
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    djpbarry wrote:
    Could you identify a potential ghetto in Ireland?

    A government-funded study in 2007 found evidence of white-flight and the emergence of ghettos in parts of Dublin 15
    http://www.immigrationcontrol.org/news.htm#whiteflight
    A Government-funded study on schooling in Dublin 15 identifies evidence of the phenomenon of "white flight" for the first time in the State.

    The report found that in some places there is evidence of the emergence of "ghettos" inhabited only by ethnic minorities, and it calls for action from Government and local authorities to avert the problems found in other European cities.

    By tracking pupils' movements over a number of years, the report found "quite a serious and significant trend of Irish moving out and immigrants moving in". Of 1,414 pupils leaving school in 2005-06, for instance, 518 left before reaching sixth class.


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    #229
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Pakistan's fundamentalist? When did that happen?


    Wow.

    Maybe you don't watch the news but the Pakistani military has been fighting fiercely with fundamentalists in the north of the country for ages. The fighting has sometimes been only 60 miles from the capital.

    Large parts of northern pakistan (famously Waziristan) pay only lip service to the central government and are basically rulled by sharia law.

    It would generally be considered to be the second most fundamentalist large Muslim country in the world after Saudi Arabia. That is debateable and some would say that it's THE most fundamentalist large Muslim country in the world.


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    #230
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    You seem to be under the illusion I have an issue with immigrants which I dont. What I do have an issue with is parts of the city I was born, grew up in and live in becoming no go areas for ANY members of our society.

    I know the area I live in Finglas is mainly a no go area for immigrants who are set upon by little inbred ****heads. I don't hear of irish people being killed by immigrants only the other way around.
    Concentrations of immigrants in an area usually are forced by factors out of their control. I don't know where you get that in the USA this was forced and not in the UK.


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    #231
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Could we? How?


    It would help if you read entire sentences.

    We have arable land and favourable weather conditions for growing food.


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    #232
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Is it anecdotal to say that cribs were not placed in hospitals at christmas for fear of offending other religions???

    Yes, because it was 'crib' singular, and it was simply relocated for other reasons, as far as I recall.

    However, even if it was true, thats not an example relating to
    Many immigrants have no desire to assimilate our values, but wish to bring their own with them and then trample on ours.
    O'Morris wrote:
    the emergence of ghettos in parts of Dublin 15

    Possibly, but they aren't composed of immigrants.....


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    #233
    Affable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭Affable


    Nodin wrote: »



    The problem there is 9/10 tenths Islamophobia as far as I can see.

    Huh? Did you see the Danish cartoons fiasco?
    Or the Theo Van Gogh thing? Rushdie's Fatois?
    Rushdie's knighthood being stopped because of 'offence' it may cause?
    7/7
    Richard Reid
    Abu Hamza
    Imperiliast Islam
    etc etc

    Don't tell me islamophobia doesn't have a rational basis.


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    #234
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    O'Morris wrote: »
    A government-funded study in 2007 found evidence of white-flight and the emergence of ghettos in parts of Dublin 15
    Technically they’re not ghettos unless they’re dominated by a single ethnic minority. But anyway, same question; what do you want to do about it? Should we force all the Irish people who left Dublin 15 to return?


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    #235
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    Maybe you don't watch the news but the Pakistani military has been fighting fiercely with fundamentalists in the north of the country for ages.
    If Pakistan is a fundamentalist state (which it isn’t, by the way), then why are the Pakistani military fighting fundamentalists?
    johnathan woss wrote: »
    It would generally be considered to be the second most fundamentalist large Muslim country in the world after Saudi Arabia. That is debateable and some would say that it's THE most fundamentalist large Muslim country in the world.
    You’re a funny guy. For a supposedly fundamentalist nation, Pakistan doesn’t seem to be terribly good at electing fundamentalist governments.
    johnathan woss wrote: »
    We have arable land and favourable weather conditions for growing food.
    Without fossil fuels?


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    #236
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    Affable wrote: »
    Huh? Did you see the Danish cartoons fiasco?
    Or the Theo Van Gogh thing? Rushdie's Fatois?
    Rushdie's knighthood being stopped because of 'offence' it may cause?
    7/7
    Richard Reid
    Abu Hamza
    Imperiliast Islam
    etc etc

    Did you see the Ryan Report?


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    #237
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Affable wrote: »
    Huh? Did you see the Danish cartoons fiasco?
    Or the Theo Van Gogh thing? Rushdie's Fatois?
    Rushdie's knighthood being stopped because of 'offence' it may cause?
    7/7
    Richard Reid
    Abu Hamza
    Imperiliast Islam
    etc etc

    Don't tell me islamophobia doesn't have a rational basis.

    What the hell is "Imperialist Islam"?

    Did you see:
    Iraq 1 and 2
    Afghanistan
    Guantanimo
    Gaza
    Lebanon 1 and 2
    Iran 1,2 and going for 3
    Iran Air Flight 655
    Six Day War
    The Nakba
    The Stern Gang


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    #238
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    djpbarry wrote: »
    If Pakistan is a fundamentalist state (which it isn’t, by the way), then why are the Pakistani military fighting fundamentalists?

    Because there are large numbers of fundamentalists in the country ?
    Where did I say it was a fundamentalist state?
    I said the average Pakistani immigrant would be more fundamentalist than the average immigrant to France from Algeria.
    Perhaps you could argue against what I actually said instead of picking things out of context in order to try and score points in your own head like a 10 year-old.
    djpbarry wrote: »
    Without fossil fuels?

    Compared to large parts of the world, yes.
    What part of arable land and favourable weather conditions do you not understand ?


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    #239
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    Where did I say it was a fundamentalist state?
    Right here:
    johnathan woss wrote: »
    It would generally be considered to be the second most fundamentalist large Muslim country in the world after Saudi Arabia. That is debateable and some would say that it's THE most fundamentalist large Muslim country in the world.
    So now you're saying that Pakistan is not a fundamentalist state/country?
    johnathan woss wrote: »
    Compared to large parts of the world, yes.
    What part of arable land and favourable weather conditions do you not understand ?
    What part of "How do we feed the country without using fossil fuels?" don't you understand?


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    #240
    Affable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭Affable


    sovtek wrote: »
    What the hell is "Imperialist Islam"?

    Did you see:
    Iraq 1 and 2
    Afghanistan
    Guantanimo
    Gaza
    Lebanon 1 and 2
    Iran 1,2 and going for 3
    Iran Air Flight 655
    Six Day War
    The Nakba
    The Stern Gang

    All of the above are irrelevant when considering the islamic community and their vitriolic reactions against freedom of speech, and the imperalist intentions within the religion. As for what is imperialist islam, well I could look, or you could look, in the Quran, on the web. It wouldn't be hard to find some of the extremist stuff that is going on with European muslims and indeed some of the stuff about infidels in the Quran.


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    #241
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Right here:
    So now you're saying that Pakistan is not a fundamentalist state/country?
    What part of "How do we feed the country without using fossil fuels?" don't you understand?


    It is clear what i mean from the context of what I said in relation to Britain/Pakistan/France/Algeria.
    There are large fundamentalist areas in Pakistan and a large number of fundamentalists.
    Pakistan as an entity could in fact collapse at any time and the west is very worried about this.

    Do you want to argue against the point that the average pakistani immigrant into Britian (and their descendants) is more fundamentalist than the average Algerian immigrant into France ?
    That is the point I made before you took us off on this trolling tangent.

    Feeding Ireland without fossil fuels will of course be VERY difficult, but the difficulty increases as the population increases.
    But in large parts of the world it will be impossible unless they drastically reduce their population.

    Do you have ANYTHING constructive to add or are you just going to continue to snipe from the sidelines ?


This discussion has been closed.
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