Brian Cowen and my 2cents.

paddyboy23

Mac daddy wrote: »

I have never voted for them and I never will, I pay my taxes I'm entitled to bitch and moan about them, and I have been bitching at them when they call to my door looking for my vote.

People need to wake up and smell the incompetent goverment that we are faced with.

Most jobs three strikes your out why the Irish people haven't stormed in the Dail and removed that useless party is beyond me.
Everyone seems to be waiting on magical solution to be presented by the current goverment and Brian Coward and his sidekicks.
Here's the solution get rid of them and give another party a shot that might actualy listen to people, if they are no better get rid of them to.

Argentina has done and several other countries are doing it, why aren't we?

thats what the country needs now,a different goverment every second week,keep on bitching,

Front

Mac daddy wrote: »

No he isn't, I have been bitching for years and never once voted for fainna "fail"

This goverment has no idea's, they are trying to tax there way out of a hole they dug themselves in, and making the rest of us pay for it.

Instead of spending savage amounts of money in the public sector and creating all these various roles the money should have been put into R&D/infastructure/Education/healthcare but they didn't.

This country has nothing to offer we attract corporations with a very low corporate tax, they setup shop here make there money **** hits the fan they bail out.
And what do we have to show for it? 12% tax rate and nothing else.
We export other peoples and corporations products not our own why because we haven't got anything innovative apart from a number of small Irish company who get sweet $uck all help from the goverment when they asked for it!
Instead we have call centers and manufacturing plants/factories which are the fist to close up.

People like you "paddyboy23" make me sick for still standing behind this goverment, your voting card should be taken off you!

I bet you haven't even bothered looking at what the indepents/SF/Libertas are saying have you? no because you and the rest of this redneck country support the usual muppets.

None of your business who he votes for.

Sinn Fein, Libertas.. none of my business but Jesus Christ....

Caoltan

Sinn Fein.

No, forget all your "OMG they're the IRA! WTFBBQ!!1!1!one" ****e.

Pure and simply the smartest party in the land. And Gerry Adams is pretty charismatic too - a hell of a lot more than that eejit Cowen.

Duckjob

Yes there is a global recession. However, over the past 8 yrs as the government of the country we cheerled a construction and property bubble in which some people made huge profits from ordinary people who had to borrow huge amounts of money from their future earnings to pay for modest housing.

This has caused untold damage to our economy leaving us in a weakened state, making fighting off the global recession much more difficult than it would otherwise have been.

This was a major f**k up and for our part in this we are deeply sorry.

When i hear the above from Brian Cowen, I might start having a modicum of respect for him. Until that day (which I know is never) I will continue to regard him, FF, and anyone who chooses to associate with FF with utter contempt.

stereo_steve

Caoltan wrote: »

Sinn Fein.

No, forget all your "OMG they're the IRA! WTFBBQ!!1!1!one" ****e.

Pure and simply the smartest party in the land. And Gerry Adams is pretty charismatic too - a hell of a lot more than that eejit Cowen.

Think your looking for the humour forum tbh

Drumpot

Ah more FF bashing . .

For the purpose of not being cast in a bracket of a party supporter, I generally vote for the candidate who I feel will best serve my area. Candidate firstly . . Party is of really low relevance when I vote . . Except for Sinn Fein who I openly admit I have a distinct inability to ever cast a vote for, I cant really elaborate on it much more then that.

FF have made some awful mistakes. I have no confidence in their ability to properly rule this country unless they start showing leadership soon. Backpeddling on certain decisions only highlights the lack of proper diligence done in weighing up certain decisions that have been made. (I dont need to highlight these backtracked policies).

FF have been in power too long for their own good (even some of their most hardcore supporters would admit this) and have gotten complacent.

I could go on, but most of the bashing has been suggested in some form already in many differant forums.

And so to the opposition partys. The main reason that FF havent been wiped off the map completely is because, despite what many say or think, alot of people dont really trust them to do a much better job.

Gilemore offers nothing but FF bashing (which is enjoyable), his mandate is to do whatever the opposite is to FF and constantly attack them for trying anything. Oh and jump on populist bandwagons like Public sector strikes (for those poor guys who are paying such awfully crippling levies for their guaranteed pensions!).

And Kenny, he just doesnt seem to be leadership material. I reckon my rabbit could make a better job of really attacking this government, then Kenny. People talk about the popularity of FG growing to record levels under his tenure, they should be thanking Cowan and Co, not Kenny. FF is as dirty a word as disgraced clergy right now. Gilemore, despite his flaws has done remarkably better then Kenny, everybody wants Bruton as FG's leader, yet we are stuck with 1970's hair cut Kenny.

What I want is for proper discussion to start. None of this rank waffle about bailing out the banks or making the taxpayer pay for developers. Sorry this is populist rhetoric. Discuss the real issues.

What are the ramifications of not bailing out the banks for the country, in every aspect. Credit facilities to local population, credit rating abroad, ability to export-import, ability to create new jobs (investment in this country), reputation abroad etc.

As far as alternatives on the table, what are the potential upsides and downsides. Im sick of hearing FG go on about how great their ideas are, well discuss them in depth and show us the knock on affects of "taking the good parts of the banks" only. Theres always repurcussions to actions in such important decisions. I have absolutely no confidence in these alternative options because there has not been any proper in depth educated debates on all the factors and problems and plus's that come with each options.

What worries me is that people want change at any cost. While I wouldnt argue that a change in government would be a bad thing, I am concerned that many people will vote against FF simply because they are pssed off with them. Yes, its the people speaking, but many out of fear and anger. Do you make your most educated decisions when you are fearful or angry . People want leadership and they want hope, but sometimes you turn to an alternative thats no necessarily offering your credible answers, simply differant ones. Im not canvassing for FF, Im canvassing for our opposition parties to show more leadership and direction. Forget about political jostling and give the Irish People some hope and belief that there are people in powerful positions who are not just in it for the statistical rewards of outmanouvering the government in slagging matches ! !

CorkFenian

Fianna Fail have been a complete disaster these past 6 months..(not withstanding previous 12 years of corruption and lies)..To see them talk about "good people" who didnt make it in local elections is sickening and making tough decisions etc..They still don't get it...These people just don't care...For them they will do anything to stay in power...They receive the benefit of the doubt still from a broad (if rural) demographic who would vote for anyone in FF colours..And FF talks about democracy....If it were any other party there over last decade they would have been gone already..(Whereas the opposition will be dissected piece by piece).Unfortunately they are in the national psyche..And thats very hard to break altogether...Which is why I think the current circumstances will hit them much harder than their disastrous results lately...(The generation that votes for them whatever happens is in the decline)...Deeply frustrating to see Cowen roll out Manseragh to talk the whole time...Since last September and his "addresses to the nation" in Dublin Chamber of Commerce and Tullamore..Cowen has shown himself to be completely inept.There is a good reason why his profile is low..He has no defence to make...Because how could he , when he would be defending the indefensible...People arent stupid even in FF..He is living on borrowed time..I wonder how many copies of his new book he'll sell!!

I also don't like the way FF elected members are cherry picking what they like to take from FF...John McGuinness's son said his election was a protest vote FFS...Load of rubbish you're either with a party or you're not IMHO..

eamonnm79

Drumpot wrote: »

Ah more FF bashing . .

For the purpose of not being cast in a bracket of a party supporter, I generally vote for the candidate who I feel will best serve my area. Candidate firstly . . Party is of really low relevance when I vote . . Except for Sinn Fein who I openly admit I have a distinct inability to ever cast a vote for, I cant really elaborate on it much more then that.

FF have made some awful mistakes. I have no confidence in their ability to properly rule this country unless they start showing leadership soon. Backpeddling on certain decisions only highlights the lack of proper diligence done in weighing up certain decisions that have been made. (I dont need to highlight these backtracked policies).

FF have been in power too long for their own good (even some of their most hardcore supporters would admit this) and have gotten complacent.

I could go on, but most of the bashing has been suggested in some form already in many differant forums.

And so to the opposition partys. The main reason that FF havent been wiped off the map completely is because, despite what many say or think, alot of people dont really trust them to do a much better job.

Gilemore offers nothing but FF bashing (which is enjoyable), his mandate is to do whatever the opposite is to FF and constantly attack them for trying anything. Oh and jump on populist bandwagons like Public sector strikes (for those poor guys who are paying such awfully crippling levies for their guaranteed pensions!).

And Kenny, he just doesnt seem to be leadership material. I reckon my rabbit could make a better job of really attacking this government, then Kenny. People talk about the popularity of FG growing to record levels under his tenure, they should be thanking Cowan and Co, not Kenny. FF is as dirty a word as disgraced clergy right now. Gilemore, despite his flaws has done remarkably better then Kenny, everybody wants Bruton as FG's leader, yet we are stuck with 1970's hair cut Kenny.

What I want is for proper discussion to start. None of this rank waffle about bailing out the banks or making the taxpayer pay for developers. Sorry this is populist rhetoric. Discuss the real issues.

What are the ramifications of not bailing out the banks for the country, in every aspect. Credit facilities to local population, credit rating abroad, ability to export-import, ability to create new jobs (investment in this country), reputation abroad etc.

As far as alternatives on the table, what are the potential upsides and downsides. Im sick of hearing FG go on about how great their ideas are, well discuss them in depth and show us the knock on affects of "taking the good parts of the banks" only. Theres always repurcussions to actions in such important decisions. I have absolutely no confidence in these alternative options because there has not been any proper in depth educated debates on all the factors and problems and plus's that come with each options.

What worries me is that people want change at any cost. While I wouldnt argue that a change in government would be a bad thing, I am concerned that many people will vote against FF simply because they are pssed off with them. Yes, its the people speaking, but many out of fear and anger. Do you make your most educated decisions when you are fearful or angry . People want leadership and they want hope, but sometimes you turn to an alternative thats no necessarily offering your credible answers, simply differant ones. Im not canvassing for FF, Im canvassing for our opposition parties to show more leadership and direction. Forget about political jostling and give the Irish People some hope and belief that there are people in powerful positions who are not just in it for the statistical rewards of outmanouvering the government in slagging matches ! !

People who do not have an ideology and vote on local issues rather than the good of the country are part of the problem.

Drumpot

eamonnm79 wrote: »

People who do not have an ideology and vote on local issues rather than the good of the country are part of the problem.

So people who voted for FF in the last couple of elections were doing so out of some ideology, for the greater good of the country and not because FF were offering us low taxes and a celtic tiger. . Please, dont be so naieve.

I think that people who vote for "parties" are a huge part of the problem. I know people who will vote for FF at all costs, even canvas for candidates they dont believe in. How is that remotely for the good for the country . .

And many people in this country will vote for the party who offers the most to them individually (like public servants, builders, bankers etc etc etc). Voting for a party in this country is not following an ideology, its simply self serving democracy. Do you think labour party has an ideology that 24% of the public believe in , or simply an ideology that suits certain vested interest groups right now . .

These parties with agenda's or "ideals" are only used when it suits.

Until we start getting independent TD's in big partys, thinking independently for the greater good (and being able to vote against their own party without the risk of being thrown out or downgraded) we will only ever live in a society run by vested interest.

I think its better to vote for a candidate you believe in, who will probably have more loyalty to you and your neighbours, then vote for a person simply because they are in a party. Voting for a party in Ireland in the current climate is simply sheep mentality democracy. I point you to labour, they have offered no ideological way to run the country, but have increased popularity simply by bashing Cowan and FF . . Yep, following a party prooves that you are following an ideology thats for the greater good of the country . .:p

Loula

smelltheglove wrote: »

On the weekend I read an article whereby BrianCowen states the public should stick with FF, that other parties are happy to make criticisms but none have a solution, that he has made the tough decisions and that we are already seeing the benefits of these decisions.

I cannot for the life of me find the article but does anyone agree that yes he has made the tough decisons whereas others have walked away from the problems, i.e. Bertie, and now the decisions are made we should stick with them for them to flourish rather than voting in another crowd that will undo the hard decisions that have been made in an effort to gain popularity?

I am not the most politically minded, and some of the decisions that were made have irritated me but this article, short as it was, I think News of the World, made me think, yes perhaps he is right, that we need to stick with the plans and hope we see the other side of this recession soon! Or are the majority still of the frame of mind that we should get someone else in now? Dont get me wrong in the longterm maybe we would be best without FF but why not let them complete their plans and let someone else with lessor experience of the job take over when the country is back on course!

I'm not the biggest political head either, but what is going on in the country at the moment seems to be educating everyone! Brian Cowen has made tough decisions, but in my opinion, our government aren't working for the people anymore. Who were once elected representatives now seem to be making often rash and ridiculous decisions, most of which hurt and anger the Irish people. Obviously we're going through a tough time, and we're not the only ones but i really don't think FF have the capacity to get us through it. However, we don't have any great alternative either at present.

While I'm not defending Bertie, I don't think its a fair statement to say he walked away from the problems, with what happened in the tribunal he had no choice but to step down. Also, while he was in power he did some great things for the country. Brian Cowen may have been dealt a raw deal, as he came into power the economy was going down anyway, but shouldn't we note that he was our Minister for Finance? I know economies and markets can change drastically in a short period of time, but I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that he should have seen something brimming on the horizon!!!

Basically, like some of you, I won't be voting FF any time soon, aside from where we are now economically, and aside from how they have handled the situation; as a party they have been in power far too long!!! I don't appreciate a lot of the measures they have taken recently, and I've known people who have been greatly affected. Its so ridiculous-perhaps they should take some tips from Trocaire and set up collection boxes because essentially they just want our money!!!

Rant over?!

eamonnm79

Drumpot wrote: »

So people who voted for FF in the last couple of elections were doing so out of some ideology, for the greater good of the country and not because FF were offering us low taxes and a celtic tiger. . Please, dont be so naieve.

I think that people who vote for "parties" are a huge part of the problem. I know people who will vote for FF at all costs, even canvas for candidates they dont believe in. How is that remotely for the good for the country . .

And many people in this country will vote for the party who offers the most to them individually (like public servants, builders, bankers etc etc etc). Voting for a party in this country is not following an ideology, its simply self serving democracy. Do you think labour party has an ideology that 24% of the public believe in , or simply an ideology that suits certain vested interest groups right now . .

These parties with agenda's or "ideals" are only used when it suits.

Until we start getting independent TD's in big partys, thinking independently for the greater good (and being able to vote against their own party without the risk of being thrown out or downgraded) we will only ever live in a society run by vested interest.

I think its better to vote for a candidate you believe in, who will probably have more loyalty to you and your neighbours, then vote for a person simply because they are in a party. Voting for a party in Ireland in the current climate is simply sheep mentality democracy. I point you to labour, they have offered no ideological way to run the country, but have increased popularity simply by bashing Cowan and FF . . Yep, following a party prooves that you are following an ideology thats for the greater good of the country . .:p

I think you will find that you mentioned party/parties 6 times and i didnt mention them once.
You misunderstood what I said and went off on a rant.

You are right in one thing "I think its better to vote for a candidate you believe in" however after the coma you loose your way, "who will probably have more loyalty to you and your neighbours, then vote for a person simply because they are in a party"
The type of world you want to live in may be completely different to the world your neighbour wants to live in. You should vote forthe person who embodies your ideals for the world you want to live in.
If none of the candidate do, you are lucky that we have propotional rep.
You can start with the people who are furthest from your ideals and work back.
The idea of political parties is that they are a coming together of people with similar ideals and visions for the world. Although in this country its very easy to see why people are confused by this idea.