N7/N11 Newlands Cross & Arklow to Rathnew

nordydan

murphaph wrote: »

Stan gave a source for his figures. Can you show me yours so I can take a look and see what's what?

They're trying to break you mysterious, by getting you to reveal your sources.

Not an inch lad. Tell them nothing!!!

Stan_D

mysterious wrote: »

Do you work for Sdcc. I get the feeling you do. Cus the bull**** detector just went off.



The existing flow is not 56,000.
Did you pick that out of poetry book.


The N7 At Kill, 65,000 so Work it out. On this topic nobody knows better than me;) So I suggest you tear up that report you have right now. Rathcoole and City West its 89.000. Redow is close to a 100,000. Traffic on the N7 from Naas to Dublin climbs dramatically. The existing counter before the Naas upgrade was 62,000 a day. That was 3 years ago. You mean to tell me your figures are correct. They are not they are way off and just bull**** figures.

The traffic flows are 90,000 a day at Newlands cross.


And growing.
That report you have is so wrong its a joke.


Please don't try put up a misleading argument on this because your going to be shown up.

Mysterious, the EIS was produced by professionals and then scrutinised by professionals paid good money to discredit the scheme and as far as traffic modelling was concerned, they had no bat to beat the scheme with.

mysterious

Dont ****ing play this bull**** with me


Those professionals chew on paper as far as I'm concerned. Your digging a fine hole for yourself. That whole means putting in a proper interchange. Snap out of the fantasy.


The NRA deeds study of 2002 state 62,000 a day south of Newlands cross. If it was 52,000 a day. They wouldn't have upgraded it to 3 lanes each way back in 2001 or whenever they did. I'm not wasting my time, talking to people who are lost in a forest.


Traffic on the M50, N4, N7 are all above 80,000.
Traffic on the NRA counter at the Naas bypass is already 60,000 a few years ago. The Naas Dual carriegway is 70,000 where the upgrade is to three lanes. Commuting traffic rises drastically. An eskimo would be able to see this. The nearer you approach Dublin the busier the N7 gets. At Newlands it rises to 80,000. Where did your wizard of oz figures. Tell me where and who these people were. I want names.

It should be 4 lanes each way


Stop the bull**** now. It stops now.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

Stan gave a source for his figures. Can you show me yours so I can take a look and see what's what?

Stan sources are someting you read straight out of zoo!

The zoo is the SDCC office.

mysterious

Stan_D wrote: »

Mysterious, the EIS was produced by professionals and then scrutinised by professionals paid good money to discredit the scheme and as far as traffic modelling was concerned, they had no bat to beat the scheme with.

Well the sources are moronic.

Show me these facts of 50,000 a day.

You know the Naas bypass carries 60,000 a day. So your facts are like **** to toilet paper. At Johnstown is around 70,000 a day. Naas and Rathcoole and south Kildare join the N7 dual carriegeway at this pont where it comes to three lanes. So here its 70,000. It will be over 70,000 when you have the N82 and Citywest roads joining. This section of road is the busiest after the M50. The N4 at lucan near the M50 is 80,000 also.

Are people so in astute about this?

When it approaches near Dublin. Do we use spacecrafts, we have 20,000 unaccounted cars missing.


Where are they.


Do you work for SDDC. Something tells me the council don't want to build this right. It's time to get their little lazy finger out. Its not acceptable whatsoever. If I was head of SDDC. I would personally sack everyone one of you. For the bull**** alone, and not just making an ass out of this interchange.

mysterious

Stan_D wrote: »

Mysterious, the EIS was produced by professionals and then scrutinised by professionals paid good money to discredit the scheme and as far as traffic modelling was concerned, they had no bat to beat the scheme with.

This proves some professionals shouldn't be professionals. I thank you for elaborating this to me.:)

Tell them I'd personally sack them.

But before I do. Would they volunteer for a traffic count. I'd sue them just for the fun of it.

http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/TrafficCounts/TrafficCounterData/html/N07-38a.htm
At Johnstown alone traffic reached 75,000.
Now thats excluding Kill, Rathcoole, Citywest traffic nearer to Newlands.


Stan you do realise, you could sue people who made that report you provided All we need is names. I don't like when people lie. Traffic counters don't lie.

mysterious

Bards wrote: »

where is your data to back up your claims?

Is it the same sort of data out of the air as your claim with regards to the amount of tractors that use the Athlone Bypass on a daily basis. So unless you can substantiate your claim then it is BS

No I just use my brain:)

You didn't prove me wrong. So dance around all you like!

Stan_D

mysterious wrote: »

This proves some professionals shouldn't be professionals. I thank you for elaborating this to me.:)

Tell them I'd personally sack them.

But before I do. Would they volunteer for a traffic count. I'd sue them just for the fun of it.

http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/TrafficCounts/TrafficCounterData/html/N07-38a.htm
At Johnstown alone traffic reached 75,000.
Now thats excluding Kill, Rathcoole, Citywest traffic nearer to Newlands.


Stan you do realise, you could sue people who made that report you provided All we need is names. I don't like when people lie. Traffic counters don't lie.

Not my report and not me who provided it - just quoting from it. Its kind of a key thing for the whole scheme so it is a bit of a **** up if the engineers got it that wrong which is surprising considering they used traffic count data from survey info gathered by "Count On Us" in 2005 and count data supplied by SDCC, DCC, the DTO and the NRA (source: EIS).

Yes it is difficult to see 75k AADT being reduced to 56K AADT between Johnstown and Newlands, and for it to be attributed to say the Citywest and Outer Ring Road interchanges. The most recent NRA Traffic Counter data at Newlands is from 2003 with 79104 AADT and for this to drop by 20k in 2 years seems implausible.

So it looks like the EIS has a flaw in it. Too late to do anything about it since the whole thing is approved. I've no doubt though that we'll hear the usual profanities from Mysterious.

mysterious

It is not approved,

It was put on hold.

We are building this right. NOW. We are not building a **** up.

I don't like **** ups.

Now

Stan_D

mysterious wrote: »

It is not approved,

It was put on hold.

We are building this right. NOW. We are not building a **** up.

I don't like **** ups.

Now

No the scheme has been already approved by ABP:
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HA0008.htm

The award of the D&B contract to build the thing was put on hold last year when the money ran out.

Now its back on track but going the route of a PPP contract.

Not much point in ranting and beating your drum here, the ABP oral hearing was last year for all and sundry to object, so you missed the party.

mysterious

Doesnt mean anything.


it is going to be changed


It will not go ahead as it is. There was uproar over the redcow, They changed it. Because it would save them more money building it right and not have to go back and third time.

With the M50 and inter urbans finsihing, this interhchange needs to be at least 4 lanes each way. The council now realise they designed an interchange on 56,000 a day

This is has to be illegal, if they carry through as 3+3. ABP could halt it once they see the official traffic figures.


Its not acceptable at all.

Stan_D

mysterious wrote: »

Doesnt mean anything.


it is going to be changed


It will not go ahead as it is. There was uproar over the redcow, They changed it. Because it would save them more money building it right and not have to go back and third time.

With the M50 and inter urbans finsihing, this interhchange needs to be at least 4 lanes each way. The council now realise they designed an interchange on 56,000 a day

This is has to be illegal, if they carry through as 3+3. ABP could halt it once they see the official traffic figures.


Its not acceptable at all.

Well good look to ya!

While your at it why not also campaign for an underpass at Newlands instead of the ugly monstrosity that the proposed overpass will be, which will be there for generations. In my mind that's the real crime.

serfboard

Stan_D wrote: »

Well good look to ya!

While your at it why not also campaign for an underpass at Newlands instead of the ugly monstrosity that the proposed overpass will be, which will be there for generations. In my mind that's the real crime.

I can't understand why they aren't going for an underpass at Newlands, comparable to the Newcastle one on the N4.

Stan_D

serfboard wrote: »

I can't understand why they aren't going for an underpass at Newlands, comparable to the Newcastle one on the N4.

It was a financial decision at the end of the day:

• Underpass option est. cost: €78.7m
• Overpass option est. cost: €53m

Also Underpass option would take 3 years to build as opposed to 2 years for the Overpass... that's one year extra of noise, disruption, delay (source: 2007 EIS, page 65).

Unfortunately the NRA does not seem to be able to put a value on "legacy".

mysterious

Stan_D wrote: »

It was a financial decision at the end of the day:

• Underpass option est. cost: €78.7m
• Overpass option est. cost: €53m

Also Underpass option would take 3 years to build as opposed to 2 years for the Overpass... that's one year extra of noise, disruption, delay (source: 2007 EIS, page 65).

Unfortunately the NRA does not seem to be able to put a value on "legacy".

The whole interchange is a joke anyway.

Tech3

Arklow to Rathnew is going to be constructed 2+2 according to the revised second programme of PPP's. It will have grade seperated junctions on it though.

Also part of the PPP is to install a service area on the Gorey bypass.

Meanwhile the Enniscorthy bypass will be HQDC.

2+2 wont cut it between two motorways. The NRA have f&&ked up again. :mad:

nordydan

tech2 wrote: »

Arklow to Rathnew is going to be constructed 2+2 according to the revised second programme of PPP's. It will have grade seperated junctions on it though.

Also part of the PPP is to install a service area on the Gorey bypass.

Meanwhile the Enniscorthy bypass will be HQDC.

2+2 wont cut it between two motorways. The NRA have f&&ked up again. :mad:

already posted & discussed at post 95

Tech3

nordydan wrote: »

already posted & discussed at post 95

Ok........ but I didnt know it was actually confirmed as many posters thought it was very shortsighted by the NRA to construct it 2+2. If you go back to that page you will see I also discussed this also but was unsure if it was actually true.

I think they need to go back to the drawing board on that scheme and make it HQDC.

Now is the discussion over? :rolleyes: No its not until the NRA cop on and change the design.

nordydan

tech2 wrote: »

Ok........ but I didnt know it was actually confirmed as many posters thought it was very shortsighted by the NRA to construct it 2+2. If you go back to that page you will see I also discussed this also but was unsure if it was actually true.

I think they need to go back to the drawing board on that scheme and make it HQDC.

Now is the discussion over? :rolleyes: No its not until the NRA cop on and change the design.

Youve had your say. The discussion is over

I agree the decision is very short sighted. The land take for a full motorway has been fenced off for years. Its not like Glen of the Downs where space is restricted for example

dmeehan

i realise money may be tight atm (no excuse, but...) are they still going to build bridges etc wide enough on the Arklow-Rathnew section to allow for future upgrades?

L1011

I can see them still slapping M restrictions on a fully GSJ'ed 2+2.... it'll be well below anything we've had before, but not below what other European countries have as motorway equivalents.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

When it approaches near Dublin. Do we use spacecrafts, we have 20,000 unaccounted cars missing.

City West, and traffic *leaving* at Newlands Cross account for most of these. Very large volumes of traffic leave the N7 at CW due to working there or using it for access to Tallaght, large enough volumes leave at the ORR and massive volumes leave at NX itself. Traffic leaving at NX clearly isn't going to cross the bridge!

D.L.R.

Rathnew-Arklow will be Type 1 DC, it has been up till that publication said otherwise. I'd say its just a mistake, unless Ireland really is that broke now that we have to downsize asphalt and yellow paint.

L1011

asphalt and yellow paint that we're paying for on the never never, at that...

spacetweek

D.L.R. wrote: »

Rathnew-Arklow will be Type 1 DC, it has been up till that publication said otherwise. I'd say its just a mistake, unless Ireland really is that broke now that we have to downsize asphalt and yellow paint.

I really, really hope you're right. The road was described the whole way up to now as Type 1, and in any case it'll be sandwiched between 2 motorways. It's still not 100% clear in my opinion.

Stan_D wrote: »

Well good look to ya!

While your at it why not also campaign for an underpass at Newlands instead of the ugly monstrosity that the proposed overpass will be, which will be there for generations. In my mind that's the real crime.

In fairness NX is hardly beautiful. Industrial and retail buildings. I don't see the overpass being a biggie.

Mysterious! Where do I start with you.
You're spamming this thread even worse than usual. Posts 123 to 127 are all you, 5 posts in a row - that must be a new record. I'm surprised you haven't received an infraction.

mysterious wrote: »

Doesnt mean anything.

it is going to be changed

It will not go ahead as it is. There was uproar over the redcow, They changed it. Because it would save them more money building it right and not have to go back and third time.

With the M50 and inter urbans finsihing, this interhchange needs to be at least 4 lanes each way. The council now realise they designed an interchange on 56,000 a day

This is has to be illegal, if they carry through as 3+3. ABP could halt it once they see the official traffic figures.

Its not acceptable at all.

It is not going to be changed just because you want it to.

The capacity of the 3+3* interchange is 84,000 vehicles not 56,000. The capacity of a 2+2 M or HQDC is 56,000 vehicles per day, so dividing by 2 and multiplying by 3 gives 84,000. This should be sufficient for the junction. As some posters have pointed out, a lot of traffic enters and leaves the road between Kill/Johnstown and the M50, so you cannot simply extrapolate, based on the Johnstown figures, what the NX figures are.

* You keep calling it 3x3. This is 9 lanes. You mean 3+3, three plus three. Please get your maths right.

Chris_533976

Ok heres the deal -

The "2nd Roads PPP Newsletter" on the NRA website says that it'll be a Type 2 Dual Carriageway (2+2).

The official Pre Tender Documentation sent to Interested Candidates and advertised in the Tender Docs on Etenders says a Type 1 Dual Carriageway (HQDC).

I'd take the latter as being the more likely.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Mysterious! Where do I start with you.
You're spamming this thread even worse than usual. Posts 123 to 127 are all you, 5 posts in a row - that must be a new record. I'm surprised you haven't received an infraction.

Maybe you should get an infraction for throwing an unwarrented dig at me and accusing me of spamming.

I posted facts and info not spam. Many people actually agree my stance on this.

It is not going to be changed just because you want it to.

Well its going to change now.

The capacity of the 3+3* interchange is 84,000 vehicles not 56,000.

Never said so.

The capacity of a 2+2 M or HQDC is 56,000 vehicles per hour,

No. Its 55,000 per day. Not 56,00 per hour. rofl.

so dividing by 2 and multiplying by 3 gives 84,000. This should be sufficient for the junction. As some posters have pointed out, a lot of traffic enters and leaves the road between Kill/Johnstown and the M50, so you cannot simply extrapolate, based on the Johnstown figures, what the NX figures are.

* You keep calling it 3x3. This is 9 lanes. You mean 3+3, three plus three. Please get your maths right.

You can,


Traffic rises on all approach roads towards Dublin.
M1,N2,N3,N4,N11 and the N7 bears no exception.

The traffic counters, rises all the way from Portaoise to the M50. Traffic rises from Naas to Dublin, as the commuter traffic rises considerably as well as the popuation density. The Johnstown counter does not add to the Traffic entering from Newcastle, Rathcoole, Citywest etc. That join the N7 beyond the traffic counter at Rathcoole which already reaches 75,000 vehicles a day.

Therefore I am right and therefore the traffic predictions are well over 3+3 and will be outdate when built.

It's the short sightness people like you is the current problem we have with our road infrastructure. it's a big concern for me, I just cannot stand this mentality

nordydan

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Ok heres the deal -

The "2nd Roads PPP Newsletter" on the NRA website says that it'll be a Type 2 Dual Carriageway (2+2).

The official Pre Tender Documentation sent to Interested Candidates and advertised in the Tender Docs on Etenders says a Type 1 Dual Carriageway (HQDC).

I'd take the latter as being the more likely.

I would hope so, the latter was published on the 19th June while the Newsletter was published 3 days before.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

The Johnstown counter does not add to the Traffic entering from Newcastle, Rathcoole, Citywest etc. That join the N7 beyond the traffic counter at Rathcoole which already reaches 75,000 vehicles a day.

Not does it subtract the significantly higher traffic leaving at Citywest, the ORR and NX itself... something you fail to understand exists.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Not does it subtract the significantly higher traffic leaving at Citywest, the ORR and NX itself... something you fail to understand exists.

I don't fail to miss anything. I understand how traffic works on this road:)


How because I have the common sense to understand that most of the traffic will go from Rathcoole/Citywest towards the city rather than to the south.. Ie. Where the populations gravitate towards.


The fact is the traffic grows (enter and leaves) as it approches Dublin.:) Like The Nass road and the M7 Nass bypass joins, and traffic rises from 60,000 (on bypass) to 75,000 (at Johnstown) The same once the Rathcoole and Citywest joins. etc.

I don't fail to miss anything at all.


Same on every approaching road towards Dublin, you fail to see it lol..