N7/N11 Newlands Cross & Arklow to Rathnew

L1011

Your other posts make it clear don't understand how traffic works anywhere in the world, let alone on the N7.

You have no figures to prove your claim that traffic is higher crossing through NX than at Johnstown. You are deliberately ignoring that many of the draws of traffic to the N7 are either accessed by turning off at NX (Clondalkin and the vast industrial areas of north Tallaght) itself or are west of NX (Newcastle's acreages of business parks, Lucan/Tallaght via the ORR, Grange Castle and Profile Park via the ORR, City West, etc).

It is not common sense to suggest traffic continues rising after areas which would tap off massive amounts of commuter traffic. This is where the "population gravitates towards".

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Your other posts make it clear don't understand how traffic works anywhere in the world, let alone on the N7.

You have no figures to prove your claim that traffic is higher crossing through NX than at Johnstown. You are deliberately ignoring that many of the draws of traffic to the N7 are either accessed by turning off at NX (Clondalkin and the vast industrial areas of north Tallaght) itself or are west of NX (Newcastle's acreages of business parks, Lucan/Tallaght via the ORR, Grange Castle and Profile Park via the ORR, City West, etc).

It is not common sense to suggest traffic continues rising after areas which would tap off massive amounts of commuter traffic. This is where the "population gravitates towards".

I believe in common sense. And common sense + logic prevails. But I'm confident to say I know far more about this topic than you.

I'm not ignoring anything at all. I'm aware of the traffic on the N7. I grew up beside it.:p I drive on it daily.


I'm well aware of where traffic leaves and enters the N7 at all the points from Naas to Dublin and the traffic increases as the commuter traffic grows. It is the same as the N4. Traffic is around 28,000 at Enfield and rises to 83,000 at Dead mans inn.

Road-Hog

mysterious wrote: »

I believe in common sense. And common sense + logic prevails. But I'm confident to say I know far more about this topic than you.

I'm not ignoring anything at all. I'm aware of the traffic on the N7. I grew up beside it.:p I drive on it daily.


I'm well aware of where traffic leaves and enters the N7 at all the points from Naas to Dublin and the traffic increases as the commuter traffic grows. It is the same as the N4. Traffic is around 28,000 at Enfield and rises to 83,000 at Dead mans inn.

Yes we've come to realise Mysterious that you just know everything:D

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

I believe in common sense. And common sense + logic prevails. But I'm confident to say I know far more about this topic than you.

I'm not ignoring anything at all. I'm aware of the traffic on the N7. I grew up beside it.:p I drive on it daily.


I'm well aware of where traffic leaves and enters the N7 at all the points from Naas to Dublin and the traffic increases as the commuter traffic grows. It is the same as the N4. Traffic is around 28,000 at Enfield and rises to 83,000 at Dead mans inn.

Between Enfield and the Dead Mans Inn you have HP and Intel as traffic draws - that is all. You also have Kilcock, Maynooth, Leixlip, Celbridge and Lucan. All large towns, the latter two are VERY large towns, full of commuter traffic.

Between Johnstown and NX you have Citywest, Grange Castle, Profile Park, the Aerodrome Business Park, north Tallaght as major traffic draws. You have the small towns of Newcastle, Kill, Rathcoole and Saggart as added commuter traffic. The 4 of these together are smaller than Maynooth!

You're ignoring everything here so you can stamp around and scream and shout for your four lane highway.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Between Enfield and the Dead Mans Inn you have HP and Intel as traffic draws - that is all. You also have Kilcock, Maynooth, Leixlip, Celbridge and Lucan. All large towns, the latter two are VERY large towns, full of commuter traffic.

Between Johnstown and NX you have Citywest, Grange Castle, Profile Park, the Aerodrome Business Park, north Tallaght as major traffic draws. You have the small towns of Newcastle, Kill, Rathcoole and Saggart as added commuter traffic. The 4 of these together are smaller than Maynooth![

They are not traffic draws lol., they add traffic to the N7. Citywest is a huge employment centre. Traffic rises as it approaches Dublin.:) Everyone who uses the N7 knows this.

You're ignoring everything here so you can stamp around and scream and shout for your four lane highway.

Third time telling you I'm not ignoring anything.

Stop arguing with me.

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

They are not traffic draws lol., they add traffic to the N7. Citywest is a huge employment centre. Traffic rises as it approaches Dublin.:) Everyone who uses the N7 knows this.

You are contradicting yourself now. Citywest (and the plethora of other industrial areas BEFORE NX) are indeed large employment centres, drawing traffic OFF the N7 BEFORE NX.

The N4 only has 2 large firms adjacent to it to do the same, the road basically runs through the suburban housing from Maynooth in to the M50 (picking up significant volumes of traffic all along). The N7 has nothing like Maynooth/Celbridge/Leixlip/LUCAN along it's corridor. I'm from Newcastle-it's friggin tiny as are Rathcoole and Saggart. In fact I'd suggest traffic even starts to leave at Rathcoole to head to the industrial areas in Tallaght West via Saggart (in fact I know a lot of it does-it was always a busy route).

Newcastle may well have more people working in it than living in it! (If you consider the industrial estates to be part of the village). Also acting as an employment draw (pulling vehicles OFF the N7 in the mornings) is the Air Corps (Baldonnel exit and Airmotive/Pratt & Whitney).

I'd be very curious to actually see some traffic counter data from just before NX. Of course LOTS of traffic leaves the N7 at NX itself to head to Tallaght.

Whereabouts on the N7 did you grow up Mysterious? Not my neck of the woods I'll bet!

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

You are contradicting yourself now. Citywest (and the plethora of other industrial areas BEFORE NX) are indeed large employment centres, drawing traffic OFF the N7 BEFORE NX.

The N4 only has 2 large firms adjacent to it to do the same, the road basically runs through the suburban housing from Maynooth in to the M50 (picking up significant volumes of traffic all along). The N7 has nothing like Maynooth/Celbridge/Leixlip/LUCAN along it's corridor. I'm from Newcastle-it's friggin tiny as are Rathcoole and Saggart. In fact I'd suggest traffic even starts to leave at Rathcoole to head to the industrial areas in Tallaght West via Saggart (in fact I know a lot of it does-it was always a busy route).

Newcastle may well have more people working in it than living in it! (If you consider the industrial estates to be part of the village). Also acting as an employment draw (pulling vehicles OFF the N7 in the mornings) is the Air Corps (Baldonnel exit and Airmotive/Pratt & Whitney).

I'd be very curious to actually see some traffic counter data from just before NX. Of course LOTS of traffic leaves the N7 at NX itself to head to Tallaght.

Whereabouts on the N7 did you grow up Mysterious? Not my neck of the woods I'll bet!

Traffic enters and leaves interchanges ( i know that:rolleyes:)


But the fact remains more traffic leaves and enters as it approaches Dublin, therefore traffic rises on the N7.

The Naas road is already
75,000 at Johnstown.

We can easily predict the traffic numbers based on local/commuter and populations entering and leaving the Naas road.

After kill it will rise to at least 78,000.
After Steelstown, Rathcoole/Newcastle traffic will rise to 84,000.

After Citywest traffic (entering and leaving) Should still be well above 84,000.

Then You have Clondalkin/Nx joining and between here and the M50 varies from 84,000 t0 100,000. It may not rise as signficant as the N4. But the N7 doesn't have a figure of 75,000 25miles outside Dublin. Traffic rises as it approaches Dublin.

veryangryman

murphaph wrote: »

Whereabouts on the N7 did you grow up Mysterious?

All i heard was "grow up mysterious" :pac::D

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

You are contradicting yourself now. Citywest (and the plethora of other industrial areas BEFORE NX) are indeed large employment centres, drawing traffic OFF the N7 BEFORE NX.

Its not before or after anything in your context. That is just a rubbish perception of yours. You can say the Employment centres are after Nx too. Bey you couldnt see that lol.....


Dublin is on the map, can you realise that? and the N7 starts at the M50. Traffic is highest at this point, and gradully dwindles all the way to Naas. Traffic south/west would not predominently be commuting to citywest (small number yes). Most of the traffic commuting to Citywest will be commuting from the east (and larger population areas) such as Dublin.


Therefore It would be correct to say that traffic is greater towards Dublin and traffic is higher as a result:)

So your argument doesn't make any sense.(cus you can't see how road traffic works on major roads like this)

mysterious

[quote=murphaph;6134591
Whereabouts on the N7 did you grow up Mysterious? Not my neck of the woods I'll bet![/quote]


That would......... be none of your business.

Nobody knows this road more than I do. ( if this is an arrogant perception of me I couldnt give a hoot)

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

Its not before or after anything in your context. That is just a rubbish perception of yours. You can say the Employment centres are after Nx too. Bey you couldnt see that lol.....


Dublin is on the map, can you realise that? and the N7 starts at the M50. Traffic is highest at this point, and gradully dwindles all the way to Naas. Traffic south/west would not predominently be commuting to citywest (small number yes). Most of the traffic commuting to Citywest will be commuting from the east (and larger population areas) such as Dublin.


Therefore It would be correct to say that traffic is greater towards Dublin and traffic is higher as a result:)

So your argument doesn't make any sense.(cus you can't see how road traffic works on major roads like this)

I'm actually from Dublin, which I suspect you are not given your chronically ill-informed perception of the area vis a vis settlement and work. The demographics ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE N4-got it?

Dublin is not some bloody singularity into which traffic exponentially flows. It is a large city-people work all across it. Does traffic on the N4 inbound continue to grow all the way to it's terminus at O'Connell Bridge Mysterious or does traffic begin to peel off before that, genius? of course not!

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

That would......... be none of your business.

Nobody knows this road more than I do. ( if this is an arrogant perception of me I couldnt give a hoot)

it's not only arrogant, it's wrong.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

I'm actually from Dublin, which I suspect you are not given your chronically ill-informed perception of the area vis a vis settlement and work. The demographics ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE N4-got it?

Dublin is not some bloody singularity into which traffic exponentially flows. It is a large city-people work all across it. Does traffic on the N4 inbound continue to grow all the way to it's terminus at O'Connell Bridge Mysterious or does traffic begin to peel off before that, genius? of course not!

I know a lot of people who know nothing about demographics and settlement/work functions.


From the M50 points. Commuter traffic is at its highest on all national routes leading to the M50.


M1
N7
N4
N3
N81
N2

In chronigical order.

The catchment of traffic rises as every national route nears Dublin. Hense why Newlands cross is the busiest cross road in the city. With traffic between 80k to 90k average.

The Catchments of population between Naas to Dublin will jump the population as more interchanges carry large proportion of Dublin bound traffic.


I'm not wrong at all.:p

That fact remains Newlands cross needs to be future proofed. And having traffic well over 80k means that there needs to be four lanes in width each carriegway or at least have room for future widening.

With inter urban completions and growth around the Soutwest vicinty of Dublin its only logical to that I am indeed right.

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

I know a lot of people who know nothing about demographics and settlement/work functions.


From the M50 points. Commuter traffic is at its highest on all national routes leading to the M50.


M1
N7
N4
N3
N81
N2

In chronigical order.

The catchment of traffic rises as every national route nears Dublin. Hense why Newlands cross is the busiest cross road in the city. With traffic between 80k to 90k average.

The Catchments of population between Naas to Dublin will jump the population as more interchanges carry large proportion of Dublin bound traffic.


I'm not wrong at all.:p

That fact remains Newlands cross needs to be future proofed. And having traffic well over 80k means that there needs to be four lanes in width each carriegway or at least have room for future widening.

With inter urban completions and growth around the Soutwest vicinty of Dublin its only logical to that I am indeed right.

Chronological order means listing things according to date. :rolleyes:

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

Chronological order means listing things according to date. :rolleyes:

Well its traffic levels I put the order in

spacetweek

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Ok heres the deal -

The "2nd Roads PPP Newsletter" on the NRA website says that it'll be a Type 2 Dual Carriageway (2+2).

The official Pre Tender Documentation sent to Interested Candidates and advertised in the Tender Docs on Etenders says a Type 1 Dual Carriageway (HQDC).

I'd take the latter as being the more likely.

Where does it say that exactly? I can't see it in the tender.

marmurr1916

spacetweek wrote: »

Where does it say that exactly? I can't see it in the tender.

It just says 16.5 km of dual-carriageway in the tender notices available online.

The main contact for the tender is at:

n11_n7ppp@nra.ie

nordydan

murphaph wrote: »

Chronological order means listing things according to date. :rolleyes:

mysterious wrote: »

Well its traffic levels I put the order in

More interested in what chronigical order means

fricatus

murphaph wrote: »

Dublin is not some bloody singularity into which traffic exponentially flows.

Comment of the day, surely!

Chris_533976

spacetweek wrote: »

Where does it say that exactly? I can't see it in the tender.

I have the actual tender documents, not the overview given on that site

The N11 Arklow/Rathnew road improvement scheme replaces the existing N11 along the designated route, which will thereafter be reclassified as a regional road. The 16.5km road scheme is designed to accommodate national through traffic and will significantly improve safety and reduce journey times for traffic travelling north-south along the East of Ireland and will also greatly improve connectivity between Dublin and the South East.

The route commences at the northern end of the full width dual carriageway section of the Arklow Bypass. The proposed Type 1 dual carriageway alignment passes west of Jack White’s Cross Roads and a grade-separated junction is proposed at this location (Brittas) to provide local access from the existing N11 (to be reclassified as the R772) all purpose road. A second grade-separated junction is proposed just to the west of ‘The Beehive’ junction (Wicklow South), providing access to Wicklow Town via the R751. Thereafter the route converges on the tie-in point with the southern end of the existing Rathnew/Ashford dual carriageway near Ballinaclogh.

It is proposed to upgrade the Newlands Cross N7 Naas Road / R113 Belgard/Fonthill Road at-grade junction to a grade-separated junction, resulting in the creation of an N7 overpass. The N7 mainline will be raised up above its existing level while the Belgard/Fonthill Road (R113) will remain at the level at which they are currently.
The proposed junction is a conventional grade separated junction with four ramps connecting the N7 mainline via two junctions to the Belgard/Fonthill Road (R113). Traffic signals will be installed at the two points where the ramps meet the minor road, with dedicated right turning lanes provided for the Belgard/Fonthill Road. Other works include the upgrade of the existing priority junction for Newlands Golf Club and adjacent residential access to a single signalised junction, as well as construction of a parallel access road to provide access to lands to the east of Belgard Road. Footpath and cycle path facilities are also included.

The proposed service area north of Gorey will provide facilities for N11 road users who wish to take a rest during their journeys and/or use fuel, toilet or food facilities. The service area facilities will be provided on the western side of the N11 dual carriageway. Public access to the service area will be restricted to direct access from the N11. Access to and from the southbound carriageway will be via an overbridge.

nordydan

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I have the actual tender documents, not the overview given on that site

Good stuff, that means there'll have to be a tranche 3 of redesignations ( including GCOB and Waterford Bypass hopefully). Be quick, before Wicklow CC put a golf course onto it!!

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

Maybe you should get an infraction for throwing an unwarrented dig at me and accusing me of spamming.

Five posts in a row is spam. All five consisted of insulting other posters, and the NRA.

mysterious wrote:

Never said so.

With the M50 and inter urbans finsihing, this interhchange needs to be at least 4 lanes each way. The council now realise they designed an interchange on 56,000 a day

You said it right here -^

mysterious wrote:

No. Its 55,000 per day. Not 56,00 per hour. rofl.

Fixed.

mysterious wrote:

It's the short sightness people like you is the current problem we have with our road infrastructure. it's a big concern for me, I just cannot stand this mentality

4+4 lanes would be great but in a hard-hit budget situation (and reduced traffic), you can't expect to get a gold-plated scheme. I'm realistic, you're not.

We're sick to death of explaining the correct Newlands Cross traffic figure to you, but it can be deduced easily as follows.

Traffic between Johnstown is affected by three things:
People leaving: Reduces figure
People continuing straight on: Does not change figure
New people entering: Increases figure.
These 3 would tend to balance each other out, though there might be a modest overall increase.

Traffic at Johnstown: AADT for the year 2008 is 67399. (Use the March figure because the traffic for the year is a bell-curve with the height at summer and the trough at winter. Therefore March and September figures are the same as the average for the year).
But if you look at other roads, for example Mullingar, or Maynooth East, you notice that this year and last growth was either flat or negative (look at the Growth percentage for each table). This is to be expected in a recession.

Therefore the 67400 figure can be adjusted for 2009 by reducing say, 2%, to 66000, though it's probably a much larger fall because the N7 is a larger employment corridor than the N4.

Now, assuming zero or negative traffic growth for the next two years and sluggish after that, we get these numbers:
2009 66,000
2010 66,000
2011 66,500
2012 67,000 (Interchange opens)

Then, assume modest 4% growth for several years:
2018 84,000 Interchange reaches capacity.

However, the Leinster Outer Orbital might be ready by then, we'll have Luas to Citywest and hopefully DART to Hazelhatch and a whole load of other changes which will change the traffic levels and make it hard to predict the real levels in 2018. Of course it also depends on what economic growth looks like then.

So explain to me how we're providing an interchange that will be at capacity when it opens.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Five posts in a row is spam. All five consisted of insulting other posters, and the NRA.

I was critical of the NRA.

I won't hide that fact. I didn't insult the posters, I challenged his opinons.


Fixed.

4+4 lanes would be great but in a hard-hit budget situation (and reduced traffic), you can't expect to get a gold-plated scheme. I'm realistic, you're not.

4+4 is required.{ it would not cost anything to have a wider bridge.

We're sick to death of explaining the correct Newlands Cross traffic figure to you, but it can be deduced easily as follows.

Traffic between Johnstown is affected by three things:
People leaving: Reduces figure
People continuing straight on: Does not change figure
New people entering: Increases figure.
These 3 would tend to balance each other out, though there might be a modest overall increase.

Explain all you want your wrong.
there is more traffic joining The N7 going east than going west FACT. The traffic figures proves this all the way down to Portaoise.

Traffic from the M7 does not leave at Johnstown, it rises. The east facing slips are higher traffiked. every single one of them, including the Nass ball flyover where 14,000 vehilces join the Nass dualcarriegaway. 19,000 at Lewistown, 5,000 at both Johnstown/kill junction and again at the Rathcoole junction, traffic does not decrease at all.

Traffic at Johnstown: AADT for the year 2008 is 67399. (Use the March figure because the traffic for the year is a bell-curve with the height at summer and the trough at winter. Therefore March and September figures are the same as the average for the year).
But if you look at other roads, for example Mullingar, or Maynooth East, you notice that this year and last growth was either flat or negative (look at the Growth percentage for each table). This is to be expected in a recession.

Traffic was 75,000, don't bluff, it means that this figure was used, so it should be taken into account. This is the amount of cars that used it, therefore it is more valid than a lower figure of march. ( we design our road on high future projections)

Therefore the 67400 figure can be adjusted for 2009 by reducing say, 2%, to 66000, though it's probably a much larger fall because the N7 is a larger employment corridor than the N4.

Now, assuming zero or negative traffic growth for the next two years and sluggish after that, we get these numbers:
2009 66,000
2010 66,000
2011 66,500
2012 67,000 (Interchange opens)

Then, assume modest 4% growth for several years:
2018 84,000 Interchange reaches capacity.

However, the Leinster Outer Orbital might be ready by then, we'll have Luas to Citywest and hopefully DART to Hazelhatch and a whole load of other changes which will change the traffic levels and make it hard to predict the real levels in 2018. Of course it also depends on what economic growth looks like then.

So explain to me how we're providing an interchange that will be at capacity when it opens.

Em no to everything there.


Traffic at newlands cross is 80,000. not any less.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

They are not traffic draws lol., they add traffic to the N7. Citywest is a huge employment centre. Traffic rises as it approaches Dublin.:) Everyone who uses the N7 knows this.

It adds traffic to the N7 IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. Everyone with a modicum of sense knows this. Traffic flows to Citywest, Grange Castle, etc, are from the city out and from the country in in the mornings; and vice versa in the evenings. There is negligable to no traffic doing the reverse.

mysterious wrote: »

Third time telling you I'm not ignoring anything.

Stop arguing with me.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you can't stand facts and people pointing out your petulant, childish behaviour stop making stuff up and acting like a spoilt child who's just had their Playstation confiscated.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

4+4 is required.{ it would not cost anything to have a wider bridge.

Yes it will. More steel, more concrete, more labour.

mysterious wrote: »

Traffic from the M7 does not leave at Johnstown, it rises. The east facing slips are higher traffiked. every single one of them, including the Nass ball flyover where 14,000 vehilces join the Nass dualcarriegaway. 19,000 at Lewistown, 5,000 at both Johnstown/kill junction and again at the Rathcoole junction, traffic does not decrease at all.

Go spend twenty seconds on the N7 at morning rush and tell me there is more traffic joining inbound at Rathcoole/Newcastle, City West and the Outer Ring than coming off at these junctions. I'm starting to get the impression from your amazing lack of knowledge of *every* road scheme you pontificate on that you don't get around much, if you even drive at all.

All three junctions have tailbacks to leave which run back on to the mainline while only a few cars join.


I'm not even going to go in to specifics on your refusal to accept someone correcting your massaging of the AADT figures. Every thread where you use AADT figures from the NRA here you massage, nay, abuse them to suit your point.

You're also still ignoring that the masses of traffic which leave at NX will not be crossing the bridge. Estimated AADT on the Belgard Road in 2004 was 25,100 (outer ring road EIS documents). This will have grown since then, but will also be tempered due to the recession and the ORR Phase 3, but still. A very large proportion of this comes OFF the N7, probably 60% of it.

Even if your pulled out the air AADT of 85,000 was correct, it'd be down to about 70,000 crossing the bridge. Taking the NRAs figures, which are infinitely more likely to be correct, it'd be down even further below the capacity of the 3+3 bridge.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Yes it will. More steel, more concrete, more labour.

Yes 3.5 metre width on each side is not much more when applying an at level bridge like this. it would be minimal cost. The existing cross section carries 6mainline lanes, 2 buslanes, 2 right turnning lanes and two lefts off lanes. Much room for 4+4 width, no excuse.

Look how expensive it was to build the grannagh interchange. The fact remains it needs future proofing.:) We don't have to repeat mistakes.

Go spend twenty seconds on the N7 at morning rush and tell me there is more traffic joining inbound at Rathcoole/Newcastle, City West and the Outer Ring than coming off at these junctions. I'm starting to get the impression from your amazing lack of knowledge of *every* road scheme you pontificate on that you don't get around much, if you even drive at all.

I use the N7 all the time. I know that most traffic uses the east facing slips than the west facing sips. As I know how traffic regulates on this road.

For example more people from Rathcoole will be entering and leaving towards Dublin than they would be going to Nass. Simple maths and common sense.

I'm not even going to go in to specifics on your refusal to accept someone correcting your massaging of the AADT figures. Every thread where you use AADT figures from the NRA here you massage, nay, abuse them to suit your point.

Nobody corrected me on anything.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

It adds traffic to the N7 IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. Everyone with a modicum of sense knows this. Traffic flows to Citywest, Grange Castle, etc, are from the city out and from the country in in the mornings; and vice versa in the evenings. There is negligable to no traffic doing the reverse.



If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you can't stand facts and people pointing out your petulant, childish behaviour stop making stuff up and acting like a spoilt child who's just had their Playstation confiscated.

You didn't post any facts.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Yes it will. More steel, more concrete, more labour.



Go spend twenty seconds on the N7 at morning rush and tell me there is more traffic joining inbound at Rathcoole/Newcastle, City West and the Outer Ring than coming off at these junctions. I'm starting to get the impression from your amazing lack of knowledge of *every* road scheme you pontificate on that you don't get around much, if you even drive at all.

All three junctions have tailbacks to leave which run back on to the mainline while only a few cars join.


I'm not even going to go in to specifics on your refusal to accept someone correcting your massaging of the AADT figures. Every thread where you use AADT figures from the NRA here you massage, nay, abuse them to suit your point.

You're also still ignoring that the masses of traffic which leave at NX will not be crossing the bridge. Estimated AADT on the Belgard Road in 2004 was 25,100 (outer ring road EIS documents). This will have grown since then, but will also be tempered due to the recession and the ORR Phase 3, but still. A very large proportion of this comes OFF the N7, probably 60% of it.

Even if your pulled out the air AADT of 85,000 was correct, it'd be down to about 70,000 crossing the bridge. Taking the NRAs figures, which are infinitely more likely to be correct, it'd be down even further below the capacity of the 3+3 bridge.

No it wouldnt traffic on the N7 is greater than 80,000.

The fact remains anyone with cop on would know that building a 4+4 bridge is logical.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

You didn't post any facts.

Yes, I did. That the N4 has 4 settlements which are each individually bigger than the sum total of all settlements along the N7 between the points you provided is a fact. That large volumes of traffic leave the N7 for the significant industrial development along it is a fact. That the N4 has comparatively very little industry between the points you provided is a fact.

The only person who hasn't posted a single fact here is you.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Yes, I did. That the N4 has 4 settlements which are each individually bigger than the sum total of all settlements along the N7 between the points you provided is a fact. That large volumes of traffic leave the N7 for the significant industrial development along it is a fact. That the N4 has comparatively very little industry between the points you provided is a fact.

The only person who hasn't posted a single fact here is you.

No it doesn't (in your opinion you think it leaves predominetly towards industrial complexes)

You forget to mention that most of the Population is EAST of the N7 therefore most of the traffic generated is coming from the east.:p

Remeber the tailbacks leaving the M50 to go east off the redcow, this means traffic is going down the N7 and disperses further west. All the interchanges along the N7 from the M9 to the Redcow gains traffic (from the eastern side) Because the populations of Kildare are heading towards Dublin and the M50 and vice versa.