N7/N11 Newlands Cross & Arklow to Rathnew

L1011

Traffic coming from the east is on THE OTHER SIDE of the DC during those rush hours, mysterious. Its an irrelevancy.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

I use the N7 all the time.

I don't believe you. You also claim to use the N6 Athlone BP 'all the time'; and I'm sure you're going to claim this for any other road scheme you're going to pontificate about.

mysterious wrote: »

For example more people from Rathcoole will be entering and leaving towards Dublin than they would be going to Nass. Simple maths and common sense.

Did I ever mention people from Rathcoole? No. I mentioned traffic coming from the west/south west who will be leaving the N7 at Rathcoole/Newcastle. Stop bringing straw men in to this.

mysterious wrote: »

Nobody corrected me on anything.

Au contraire. Your entire posting history on here is people correcting you, you ranting, stamping and screaming like a child and refusing to accept the corrections.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

I don't believe you. You also claim to use the N6 Athlone BP 'all the time'; and I'm sure you're going to claim this for any other road scheme you're going to pontificate about.

Proof of these accusations?

Did I ever mention people from Rathcoole? No. I mentioned traffic coming from the west/south west who will be leaving the N7 at Rathcoole/Newcastle. Stop bringing straw men in to this.



Au contraire. Your entire posting history on here is people correcting you, you ranting, stamping and screaming like a child and refusing to accept the corrections.

I'm pretty fine here.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

Nobody corrected me on anything.

Did you read any of my posts?

mysterious wrote: »

I'm pretty fine here.

Then you haven't learned anything.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Did you read any of my posts?


Then you haven't learned anything.

You haven't corrected anybody.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

You haven't corrected anybody.

Except you. Repeatedly.

Sponge Bob

MYOB wrote: »

Except you. Repeatedly.

Tech3

Sponge Bob wrote: »

^^ you are now approaching the Athlone bypass :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

mysterious

More proof again here.


Of my arguement that traffic increases as the N7 approaches Dublin. In fact traffic east of Newlands, is the busiest road is busiest from Newlands to the Redcow where traffic is sometimes approaching 90,000 at the Redcow.(if not higher afterall the redcow is the busiest and most complex junction in the state) The 79.000 counter figure is below and it ends west of Newlands.



http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/Transportation/file,3676,en.PDF (2002/2003)

Now if anyone realised

That in 2009 the traffic numbers have risen on every one of those counters since.

• The M7 and M8 are now motorway far beyond Kildare.
• Car ownership has acutley risen(completion of interurbans)

• Huge growth in the Citywest region

• 21% growth in population of country Kildare (from 2002 to 2009 its probably closer to 30%)

• The road upgrade on the Naas Dual carriegway meaning traffic is now well over 75,000 at this point.
• Also have to take into account the amount of traffic that avoids the traffic blackspot which is Newlands cross.
• Also the M50 Upgrade has put further pressures on the Road between Newlands and the Redcow (especially southbound)

Look at the M50 the traffic levels remained static and even dwindled for 3 or four years prior to the upgrade, as the traffic was displacing onto other roads to avoid the jams., The same applies for Newlands.


Now I really don't understand why some people do not want this junction built properly in which future proofing is taken into account no acception to that rule., adding the proper four lanes each way will save a lot of time and money. Since it cost very little to have a slighty wider bridge span given the fact there is plenty of room to have a wider bridge deck.


Even if they don't put four lanes It would be common sense to leave room for a fourth lane when its really needed. I still hold the view that it is needed now. Since I know using this road, that there is alot of traffic avoiding the Newlands junction to get to work (cus of the rush hour tailbacks.


So your all wrong! and It's obvious. The obviousness wasn't intentional of course. But I do know this road very well. I travel the entire lenght of it at least once a week for pretty much all my life.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Did you read any of my posts?


Then you haven't learned anything.

You haven't learned how traffic works on these roads.

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

In fact the counter above is east of Newlands, the road is busiest from Newlands to the Redcow where traffic is sometimes approaching 90,000 at the Redcow.

Where does it state that the counter (which counted 79k, not 90k, the 90k is your estimated increase since 2003, even though we are in recession) is east of the Newlands Cross junction?

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

Where does it state that the counter (which counted 79k, not 90k, the 90k is your estimated increase since 2003, even though we are in recession) is east of the Newlands Cross junction?

90k would be about right since every counter along the N7 has increased 15% percent a year since the openings of the the Nass 3 lane road and M7/M8 schemes. Car ownership has doubled since then too.

Recessions are illusions..... that was 2003. So thats 6 years ago. Traffic has increased dramatically since then. Traffic will be busier since the M50 upgrade is now almost complete as is the M8.

The N4 is also rising in traffic since the upgrade too. I would imagine that since the Newcastle is now grade separated a lot more traffic that used to avoid the bottleneck can now drive this section.


Murphaph I fail to see your argument, do you not think we should future proof our roads, especially Irelands busiest junction??

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

Where does it state that the counter (which counted 79k, not 90k, the 90k is your estimated increase since 2003, even though we are in recession) is east of the Newlands Cross junction?

Well The Newlands to the M50 is the second busiest section after the M50. Now the figures could be simalar to the N4 at Deadmans inn. But this section has always been the buisest route into the city (even when I was growing up)

This had three lanes for as long as I can remember (going southbound) This DC section is also one of the oldest DC in the country. Belgard and Clondalkin suburbs join here. And the traffic would rise to at least 90k at this point.

murphaph

Will you answer my question first please before posing return questions to me! I'll ask it again in bold:

WHERE on that link you posted does it state that the traffic counter (79k AADT, 2003) is EAST of the Newlands Cross junction?

(maybe it does say it but I can't find it. You stated categorically that it was east of the junction so I'm just asking you to show me. It's a very important point because I contend that thousands of vehicles actually turn off the N7 AT Newlands Cross and head towards Tallaght (they even provide TWO right turn lanes and 3 straight ahead ones). I'll tackle your questions when you've answered that one for me)

The Word Is Bor

He likes stuff in bold so might actually get a response. Although it will probably be incoherent.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

Will you answer my question first please before posing return questions to me! I'll ask it again in bold:

WHERE on that link you posted does it state that the traffic counter (79k AADT, 2003) is EAST of the Newlands Cross junction?

(maybe it does say it but I can't find it. You stated categorically that it was east of the junction so I'm just asking you to show me. It's a very important point because I contend that thousands of vehicles actually turn off the N7 AT Newlands Cross and head towards Tallaght (they even provide TWO right turn lanes and 3 straight ahead ones). I'll tackle your questions when you've answered that one for me)

I said no such thing.

The 79k figure is for the N7 ending at Newlands from the west side.


East side would be of a higher traffic level.

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

I said no such thing [that the traffic counter was east of Newlands Cross].

Yes you did. You said in no uncertain terms;

In fact the counter above is east of Newlands

Now you either have a bad memory, or are lying to cover your attempt at a slight of hand/deception. Which is it?

You SUPPOSE the count is higher east of the junction despite a very large number of cars LEAVING the N7 at Newlands heading to the large employment centres around Tallaght in particular. The reality is you have no idea and we should not forget, in 2003 the Outer Ring Road was not open fully (only a small bit of it was in fact) so it wasn't there to take traffic off the N7 as it is today! The ORR functions as an outer M50 for many people.

Until you clarify your position with an apology and/or admission of error, you have no credibility debating here.

The Word Is Bor

Pwned yet again Hysterious.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

Yes you did. You said in no uncertain terms;

You took the quote out of context I see;)


Go back again

Get the quote where I said 79,000 east of Newlands

Now you either have a bad memory, or are lying to cover your attempt at a slight of hand/deception. Which is it?

Your touching dangerous waters now, careful. now.

You SUPPOSE the count is higher east of the junction despite a very large number of cars LEAVING the N7 at Newlands heading to the large employment centres around Tallaght in particular. The reality is you have no idea and we should not forget, in 2003 the Outer Ring Road was not open fully (only a small bit of it was in fact) so it wasn't there to take traffic off the N7 as it is today! The ORR functions as an outer M50 for many people.

No I suppose a large percentage traffic Coming from CLondalkin to commute to Dublin and proceed east. As also Dublin traffic commuting to the huge commuter employment industries around Belgard.

Until you clarify your position with an apology and/or admission of error, you have no credibility debating here.

I think you owe me an apology. I'm shocked at how your twisted this.

L1011

Having used NX daily for over a year, there is close to no traffic coming from clondalkin to head east.

Anyway, even if there was - IT WOULD NOT CROSS THE BRIDGE. Neither would traffic heading Clondalkin->Belgard or vice-versa (of which there is a lot).

Only traffic heading through NX on the N7 would cross the bridge.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

I think you owe me an apology. I'm shocked at how your twisted this.

He doesn't. I'm shocked at how badly you're trying to get out of this - even for you its poor. In post 188 you said the counter was east of NX. Now you're pretending you never said it, even when its quoted right back at you. Like here, with a nice link to the post:

mysterious wrote: »

In fact the counter above is east of Newlands

Now, the only figures you provide for the counter you are referring to is the 79,000 figure which you insist is now 90,000. For you to claim that its "twisting" to say you've said this is the worst lie you've ever made on here. Less than ten posts after saying something you say you never said it.

Give it up.

mysterious

I posted the facts. proof of all these accusations???? I've asked for the quote from Murpaph he has purposely distorted it and taken my words out of context. Thats ok, sure we all can all see it.

I fail to see why your arguing over this. But you all carry on . I posted the figures, I posed the evidence, I posted the logic and most information on the N7 movments.

All roads should be future proofed and west of Newlands is 79,000 in 2003. So its between 85,000 and 90,000 now. The road should have a capacity span of 20 years. This route demands 4 lanes.
When the inter urbans are fully completed traffic will rise further. Trafic growth from Newlands to every counter to Portlaoise had traffic growth of 1o to 11% ever year in the last few years.

L1011

So you're now saying the counter is west of Newlands when in post 188 you said it was east of Newlands? Make up your mind.

You're also ignoring the fact that NO road has had traffic growth this year, nor is likely to next year either. Growth is gone, traffic is down everywhere.

murphaph

mysterious wrote:

In fact the counter above is east of Newlands

then after being caught out....

mysterious wrote: »

west of Newlands is 79,000 in 2003.

...without even a hint of irony or admission of a mistake!

You'd say black was white and swear on the bible that you hadn't. Totally un-effing-believable.Nobody has misquoted you or quoted you out of context.

Zoney

MYOB wrote: »

So you're now saying the counter is west of Newlands when in post 188 you said it was east of Newlands? Make up your mind.

You're also ignoring the fact that NO road has had traffic growth this year, nor is likely to next year either. Growth is gone, traffic is down everywhere.

Even with a long downturn, it's unlikely that we'll go much more than a year or two without growth. I would imagine 5 years will certainly see us back in the current situation, as such it would be good if we could see at least a couple of projects go ahead in a climate where a bit of the pressure has been relieved.

The assertion about no road having had growth isn't entirely correct - it looks like M1 near Dundalk and N3 at the border both have, and I'm guessing other crossborder routes have seen growth. N8 is also showing some growth south of Portlaoise, and I would imagine this situation will be repeated even in the current climate on other routes about to see more motorway opened (M6, M7, M9) once the motorways have opened.

Road-Hog

I'm sure mysterious etc have studied the following from South Dublin Co. Co., if not its worth a look. Don't think there is any going back on what is in this epecially since an Bord Pleanala approved road development on 6th June 2008. View Decision of An Bord Pleanála.


Since July 2009 the NRA are currently seeking expressions of interest for Public Private Partnership for the construction of a Grade Separated Interchange at Newlands Cross.


http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=179&Itemid=244

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

then after being caught out....

...without even a hint of irony or admission of a mistake!

You'd say black was white and swear on the bible that you hadn't. Totally un-effing-believable.Nobody has misquoted you or quoted you out of context.

The 79k figure is for the N7 ending at Newlands from the west 7side

What I intentionally said the counter is east of newlands is above the figure of 79.000 (which is the west figure)


I see you go well into your delusions and arrogance to try catch people out rather than actually stick to tha actual situation at hand.

Which means this interchange is really inadequate for the present and future needs. I catch you out on this so many times, and I don't understand why you always jump on these silly arguments.

mysterious

Zoney wrote: »

Even with a long downturn, it's unlikely that we'll go much more than a year or two without growth. I would imagine 5 years will certainly see us back in the current situation, as such it would be good if we could see at least a couple of projects go ahead in a climate where a bit of the pressure has been relieved.

The assertion about no road having had growth isn't entirely correct - it looks like M1 near Dundalk and N3 at the border both have, and I'm guessing other crossborder routes have seen growth. N8 is also showing some growth south of Portlaoise, and I would imagine this situation will be repeated even in the current climate on other routes about to see more motorway opened (M6, M7, M9) once the motorways have opened.

Downturn isn't really affecting the roads.

Traffic is still rising, and it will on approach roads to Dublin. With the upgrade of the M50 and inter urbans you can expect newlands to rise drastically when the bridge is put in


I will prove murphaph wrong yet again,(not that I give a damn about been right)

I am sick of this non future proofed infrastructure projects we keep building.

The Word Is Bor

mysterious wrote: »

What I intentionally said the counter is east of newlands is above the figure of 79.000 (which is the west figure)

Ok here we go again. So there is 79k west of Newlands X and you surmise that east of it is 90k without any reference to any back-up information, save for the fact that you happen to travel it along once a week?:rolleyes:

What about traffic that leaves the N7 eastbound to go to Clondalkin and Tallaght?

Zoney

mysterious wrote: »

Downturn isn't really affecting the roads.

Traffic is still rising, and it will on approach roads to Dublin. With the upgrade of the M50 and inter urbans you can expect newlands to rise drastically when the bridge is put in

My post was to point out the incorrect assertion that *all* roads have falling traffic volumes (and also the border roads was an interesting observation - presumably cross-border shopping having a measurable impact).

However, if you check the traffic counter values, for the vast majority of routes, volumes have indeed been falling, and not just between 2008 and 2009, but also for some, 2007 and 2008. That's fairly good correlation with the downturn and basic reasoning would lead one to assume a causal link (i.e. do you really think such significant job losses won't have eaten into commuter traffic?).

I was making the observation too about the likely effect of motorways opening, but that is merely a hypothesis.