Bulgaria v Ireland saturday 6th ko 6:30 setanta Ireland/RTÉ 2

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Yeah, St Ledger and Dunne look very good together.



Delaney or O'Dea for left-back perhaps?

I think we have a fairly solid defence once we get the left-back position sorted. I'd go with Delaney, and keep O'Shea at right-full.

Or perhaps O'Shea to left back and Foley/Finnan/Kelly to right?

aidan24326

Highsider wrote: »

Trap deserves a wage increase for the job he's doing with this squad

It shows what can be done with a bit of proper organisation. There are very few really good teams in international football these days, you wouldn't fear hardly any team with the exception of Spain, and once you're defensively solid and well organised you have a chance against almost anyone.

Latchy

Just gald cyprus ( it seems ) wont be going to finals at our expense again


:rolleyes:

keane2097

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Play-Doh legs Steven Reid

Needs more love imo

keane2097

The results Trapp has managed to get have been great....maybe....

I dare say if we end up as the bottom of the 2nd place teams people will say what a cock he is for not getting us more wins.

Hope it doesn't come to that...

dogpile

I've tried hard to get to like Whelan and Andrews, both as honest as the day is long but both woefully inadequate at this level, all to often the game passes them by and they are just "there"...neither mobile or creative and neither a destroyer in the sense that neither get a tackle in too often.....if Trappatoni gets to a WC with this central pairing he deserves to be up there with the very best that football management has ever seen

Latchy

keane2097 wrote: »

The results Trapp has managed to get have been great....maybe....

I dare say if we end up as the bottom of the 2nd place teams people will say what a cock he is for not getting us more wins.

Hope it doesn't come to that...

Jeeze I think he has managed to turn a going nowere squad into an above average side . He can only go up in my opinion .No coincidence that england are also triving under an italian manager to

Mr.Nice Guy

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote:

Or perhaps O'Shea to left back and Foley/Finnan/Kelly to right?

Yeah I would think this is now a good option.

dogpile wrote:

I've tried hard to get to like Whelan and Andrews, both as honest as the day is long but both woefully inadequate at this level, all to often the game passes them by and they are just "there"...neither mobile or creative and neither a destroyer in the sense that neither get a tackle in too often.....if Trappatoni gets to a WC with this central pairing he deserves to be up there with the very best that football management has ever seen

I think Steven Reid made Whelan look good. He doesn't seem to have it in him to take control of a game. Andrews looks a slightly better prospect but is a bit rough around the edges. He strikes me as a poor man's Mark Kinsella.

Hopefully Steven Reid will be back. I can't understand why Carsley continues to be overlooked as I reckon he'd be a lot more reassuring than Whelan, Andrews, Gibson or Miller.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

I fear Steven Reid will be affected from only playing at best a dozen competitive games in 2 years.

PHB

Huge result. So bloody happy. Playoffs please god

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Pains me to say it but we'd be in a great position to actually win the group if it wasn't for Kilbane's two f*** ups. :mad:

Aidric

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Pains me to say it but we'd be in a great position to actually win the group if it wasn't for Kilbane's two f*** ups. :mad:

Yep, 4 points the clown cost us.

aidan24326

dogpile wrote: »

I've tried hard to get to like Whelan and Andrews, both as honest as the day is long but both woefully inadequate at this level, all to often the game passes them by and they are just "there"...neither mobile or creative and neither a destroyer in the sense that neither get a tackle in too often.....if Trappatoni gets to a WC with this central pairing he deserves to be up there with the very best that football management has ever seen

I'd agree with that. Both players are honest and committed and no doubt that's a big part of the appeal for Trappatoni, but at this level you need more than that. As you say neither of them are classy creative players, but neither are effective destroyers either, so you begin to wonder what exactly they are doing out there? Trappatoni is somehow getting results with the worst midfield pairing we've had in the past 30 years, but I'd fear that if we do get to SA and meet a genuinely classy team (Spain,Holland,Brazil) we could get absolutely tonked.

noodler

Aidric wrote: »

Yep, 4 points the clown cost us.

Years of excellent service does not equal being a clown.

Good result considering the team and situation. I do worry about how viable is to sit off teams for most of a game is in the long run though. So far we have done it twice against Bulgaria and once against Cyprus. No gaurentee of wins in ANY of our last 3 games it should be noted. Far more worried about going to Cyprus than going to Sofia.

Play Offs give us a chance, a small chance but at least its something to cling too.

noodler

aidan24326 wrote: »

I'd agree with that. Both players are honest and committed and no doubt that's a big part of the appeal for Trappatoni, but at this level you need more than that. As you say neither of them are classy creative players, but neither are effective destroyers either, so you begin to wonder what exactly they are doing out there? Trappatoni is somehow getting results with the worst midfield pairing we've had in the past 30 years, but I'd fear that if we do get to SA and meet a genuinely classy team (Spain,Holland,Brazil) we could get absolutely tonked.

I could hardly agree more, obviously getting there is the important thing but I have never been less confident of our ability to actually perform at a WC.

Nulty

noodler wrote: »

Play Offs give us a chance, a small chance but at least its something to cling too.

Didn't you hear, we're 8th of the 9 runners up. if we're the 9th (worst) when all the games are played, we're out.

I understand Traps thinking. he's using holding midfielders and attacking down the flanks...even though nothing else matches that style. Long balls up to Folan can only be taken by Keane coz theres noone from midfield supporting...the ball just comes straight back

IRISHSPORTSGUY

noodler wrote: »

Years of excellent service does not equal being a clown.

Good result considering the team and situation. I do worry about how viable is to sit off teams for most of a game is in the long run though. So far we have done it twice against Bulgaria and once against Cyprus. No gaurentee of wins in ANY of our last 3 games it should be noted. Far more worried about going to Cyprus than going to Sofia.

Play Offs give us a chance, a small chance but at least its something to cling too.

God loves a trier but Kilbane has provided average 'service' really I'm sorry to say.

noodler

Nulty wrote: »

Didn't you hear, we're 8th of the 9 runners up. if we're the 9th (worst) when all the games are played, we're out.

So? How does that have anything to do with the fact that qualifying for the play-offs would be some kind of comfort?

Nothing in football is certain.

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

God loves a trier but Kilbane has provided average 'service' really I'm sorry to say.

Never misses a game, plays with a face mask, plays in Midfield (excellently in some cases-see Paris). I think it is very short-sighted (but alas, popular with the more fair weathered supporter) to mock Kilbane.

He certainly doesn't deserve to be called a clown on some message board after all he has done for the country.

Mr.Nice Guy

Lads are we sure we're 8th of the 9 second-placed teams because Wikipedia suggests otherwise. It says we're fourth from bottom:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_-_UEFA_Play-offs

Is this not accurate? I've checked FIFA's website and I can't find a similar type of table.

Daysha

That's the correct table yeah. Northern Ireland have their 2 wins over San Marino scrapped, as do Croatia over Andorra. Scotland don't lose any as there's only 5 in their group.

If I were a betting man, I'd say Scotland are going to miss out. There's 4 teams in that group all trying to scrape 2nd place, so they're busy knocking points off each other while each getting their asses kicked by Holland, all the while by the end of the groups we should have wins over Cyprus and Montenegro to count as well as hard earned points over Italy and Bulgaria.

cooker3

Daysha wrote: »

That's the correct table yeah. Northern Ireland have their 2 wins over San Marino scrapped, as do Croatia over Andorra. Scotland don't lose any as there's only 5 in their group.

If I were a betting man, I'd say Scotland are going to miss out. There's 4 teams in that group all trying to scrape 2nd place, so they're busy knocking points off each other while each getting their asses kicked by Holland, all the while by the end of the groups we should have wins over Cyprus and Montenegro to count as well as hard earned points over Italy and Bulgaria.

I don't know. The dutch became the first European team to actually qualify tonight. I think if it was all on the line at Hampden against a dutch team that don't care Scotland could get a result.

It would be really handy if Georgia didn't finish bottom and Montenegro did.

leninbenjamin

I think we'll have to get a result against Italy if we want to secure a play off place. on paper we shouldn't hopefully, but typically when Irish teams drop points like we did today and the last time out in Croker, it comes back to haunt us even if it seems a decent result at the time.

not going to be especially disappointed anyway if we don't, considering the last campaign we had, and how the squad is actually much weaker now than it was then. If Trapp does manage to get us to SA2010 with that midfield it'll have been a bloody miracle.

Daysha

cooker3 wrote: »

I don't know. The dutch became the first European team to actually qualify tonight. I think if it was all on the line at Hampden against a dutch team that don't care Scotland could get a result.

Eek, didn't know they actually qualified tonight. That certainly makes things a bit awkward then, especially with the match in Hampden.

Still though, we've matches against Cyrus and Montengro coming up, both very winnable, and both outside that last place spot. And we can definitely take something off Italy as long as we've our main players fit (including S.Reid).

Would be a horrible way to miss out though.

shane86

Glad of the point, glad to see Bulgaria pushed further out of contention. Even though I did get the boot from a Sydney pub at 5am odd for falling asleep in my chair The buzz when the Dunne goal went in was electric mind.

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

**Quiz Time**

When was the last time two black guys played up front together for Ireland?

Never forget the time I was in Croker for the Cyprus match and we saw Folan warming up (my eyesight is god awful)

Mate "Who is warmin up down there?"
Me (squinting) "Dunno.....I think hes black, must be Folan"
Mate "Black? Yer meant to say coloured these days"

Eh? :pac:

IRISHSPORTSGUY

noodler wrote: »

So? How does that have anything to do with the fact that qualifying for the play-offs would be some kind of comfort?

Nothing in football is certain.





Never misses a game, plays with a face mask, plays in Midfield (excellently in some cases-see Paris). I think it is very short-sighted (but alas, popular with the more fair weathered supporter) to mock Kilbane.

He certainly doesn't deserve to be called a clown on some message board after all he has done for the country.

I've a lot of respect for Kevin Kilbane but I don't think he is good enough anymore. I don't think he should have near 100 caps, however I admire him for always giving 100% and never hiding.

Can't understand why the likes of Chris McCann and Fahey were overlooked for Liam bloody Miller against Nigeria. Hopefully we'll be seeing these two very soon, with Steven Reid coming back and with a bit of luck Lee Carsley & Stephen Ireland, suddenly midfield doesn't look a problem area anymore..... :cool:

noodler

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I've a lot of respect for Kevin Kilbane but I don't think he is good enough anymore. I don't think he should have near 100 caps, however I admire him for always giving 100% and never hiding.

Can't understand why the likes of Chris McCann and Fahey were overlooked for Liam bloody Miller against Nigeria. Hopefully we'll be seeing these two very soon, with Steven Reid coming back and with a bit of luck Lee Carsley & Stephen Ireland, suddenly midfield doesn't look a problem area anymore..... :cool:

Couldn't agree more. He may well not be up for it anymore but I really struggle to think of a better alternative. Delaney? Maybe. I wouldn't trust Kelly there anyway.

Possibly O'Shea but that involves a complete readjustment of the back four.

I just think he deserves more than to be labeled a 'clown' by Irish supporters (not sure if it was you who said it) after all he has done.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

noodler wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. He may well not be up for it anymore but I really struggle to think of a better alternative. Delaney? Maybe. I wouldn't trust Kelly there anyway.

Possibly O'Shea but that involves a complete readjustment of the back four.

I just think he deserves more than to be labeled a 'clown' by Irish supporters (not sure if it was you who said it) after all he has done.

That's the best option IMO. St Ledger should retain his place, looks PL quality. Move O'Shea to left back and Finnan/Foley to right and that's a pretty solid looking defence.

noodler

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

That's the best option IMO. St Ledger should retain his place, looks PL quality. Move O'Shea to left back and Finnan/Foley to right and that's a pretty solid looking defence.

Finnan may never be anywhere near as good as he was again. I am really worried about the prospect of him being a regular starter even as Espanyol at this stage.

Now, regarding St Ledger, I don't want to get overexcited because I have only seen him play 3 or 4 times including the Play Offs but I am just saying we all though McShane was class after the Czech game a few years ago. I am certainly reluctant to break up O'Shea and Dunne on that basis alone.

aidan24326

Nulty wrote: »

Long balls up to Folan can only be taken by Keane coz theres noone from midfield supporting...the ball just comes straight back

That's a huge problem with the current setup. With Andrews and Whelan being told to sit tight in the middle there's a complete lack of atacking support from the middle. I hate to mention his name but that's where Stephen Ireland would be such a huge addition. Looks like we can forget about him though.

People have mentioned that Steven Reid is due back in the Autumn but I'd worry about him at this stage. For a start he's played very little football in the last couple of years, and how long he'll stay fit is anyone's guess. Another recurrence of his knee problems could spell the end of his career which would be a shame.

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

God loves a trier but Kilbane has provided average 'service' really I'm sorry to say.

It's fashionable to bash Kilbane these days but that is unfair to a guy who has given better than average service over the years, doing a good job in a number of different positions. He may be past it now alright, but the emergence of St.Ledger gives Trap the option of rejigging the defence anyway.

noodler

aidan24326 wrote: »

That's a huge problem with the current setup. With Andrews and Whelan being told to sit tight in the middle there's a complete lack of atacking support from the middle. I hate to mention his name but that's where Stephen Ireland would be such a huge addition. Looks like we can forget about him though.

Theres another lad who is willing to play in the middle who can pick the odd pass or two...

ShooterSF

I always liked Kilbane especially when he played Left Midfield but I have never felt comfortable with him as a full back. He get's dragged inside to much and if he stays out wide he just backs off till the player crosses. If and it's a big if, St. Ledger and Foley can step up I'd like to see O'Shea at left back (his original position)

One other point. I say good result but boring. Don't get me wrong I'll take the result any day. If we reach the WC we'll make our own entertainment in the pubs

IRISHSPORTSGUY

noodler wrote: »

Finnan may never be anywhere near as good as he was again. I am really worried about the prospect of him being a regular starter even as Espanyol at this stage.

Now, regarding St Ledger, I don't want to get overexcited because I have only seen him play 3 or 4 times including the Play Offs but I am just saying we all though McShane was class after the Czech game a few years ago. I am certainly reluctant to break up O'Shea and Dunne on that basis alone.

I guess that's a good point regarding Finnan.

St Ledger is highly rated at Preston, has been linked with PL moves. I don't think he'll be the next McShane from what I've seen. Kelly isn't as bad as the Georgia game made him look, he was struggling for fitness.

noodler

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I guess that's a good point regarding Finnan.

St Ledger is highly rated at Preston, has been linked with PL moves. I don't think he'll be the next McShane from what I've seen. Kelly isn't as bad as the Georgia game made him look, he was struggling for fitness.

McShane was highly rated at West Brom as well!

I haven't had the chance to see Kelly play very much, Stoke haven't been gibing him much gametime. I just remember his performance in the Slovakia game (away) in particular and shudder

Kinetic^

noodler wrote: »

Years of excellent service does not equal being a clown.

Ofc not but causing 2 howlers like he has does. Same goes for McShane when he got destroyed against Italy.

aidan24326

noodler wrote: »

Theres another lad who is willing to play in the middle who can pick the odd pass or two...

I trust you mean Andy Reid? He is certainly a more accomplished passer than the two we have, and more comfortable on the ball, but I don't think he's necessarily the magic solution that he was made out to be a while back. And it's a moot point anyway as Trappatoni is never going to pick him.

I don't think lads should be comparing St.Ledger with McShane either, I know St.Ledger is not the finished article yet but he already looks more assured than McShane. McShane is so dithery and error-prone I'm not sure how he made as a pro defender at all.

dogpile

noodler wrote: »

Never misses a game, plays with a face mask, plays in Midfield (excellently in some cases-see Paris). .

How long ago was that??? Paul McGrath played many excellent games for Ireland but he finished many moons ago....prolonging Kilbanes career, as "honest" as he has been is doing more harm than good right now

noodler

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Ofc not but causing 2 howlers like he has does. Same goes for McShane when he got destroyed against Italy.

No it doesn't. It means he made two bad mistakes.

dogpile wrote: »

How long ago was that??? Paul McGrath played many excellent games for Ireland but he finished many moons ago....prolonging Kilbanes career, as "honest" as he has been is doing more harm than good right now

Gotta love this, the lad is an ever present, never shirks responsibility, never misses a game and now he is being lambasted for not deciding himself to 'stand aside' while Stephen Ireland is pined for.

Aidric

noodler wrote: »

No it doesn't. It means he made two bad mistakes.

Two very costly mistakes, unacceptable at this level.

noodler wrote: »

Gotta love this, the lad is an ever present, never shirks responsibility, never misses a game and now he is being lambasted for not deciding himself to 'stand aside' while Stephen Ireland is pined for.

You can only use this honesty of effort argument for so long, I make an honest effort to go for a piss when I get up every morning but I don't expect to be rewarded for it. Just because Kilbane has racked up a huge amount of caps doesn't mean we should persevere with him, he is a liability at left back and has already been pointed out there are better options.

dogpile

noodler wrote: »

Gotta love this, the lad is an ever present, never shirks responsibility, never misses a game and now he is being lambasted for not deciding himself to 'stand aside' while Stephen Ireland is pined for.

Where in the quote can you find me pining for Steven Ireland :cool:.....as for Kilbane, all "good" thing must come to an end eventually...because he's always showed up and never shirked responsibilty means we should carry on let him get a record number of caps regardless of the possible damage it might do, already cost us 4 precious points and that's an undeniable fact!


and btw on Ireland he's young up and coming and the future if "he wants it", ...Kilbane has had his day, stick with sentiment in football and see how far it gets you

noodler

Aidric wrote: »

Two very costly mistakes, unacceptable at this level.

You can only use this honesty of effort argument for so long, I make an honest effort to go for a piss when I get up every morning but I don't expect to be rewarded for it. Just because Kilbane has racked up a huge amount of caps doesn't mean we should persevere with him, he is a liability at left back and has already been pointed out there are better options.

dogpile wrote: »

Where in the quote can you find me pining for Steven Ireland :cool:.....as for Kilbane, all "good" thing must come to an end eventually...because he's always showed up and never shirked responsibilty means we should carry on let him get a record number of caps regardless of the possible damage it might do, already cost us 4 precious points and that's an undeniable fact!


and btw on Ireland he's young up and coming and the future if "he wants it", ...Kilbane has had his day, stick with sentiment in football and see how far it gets you

Both posts miss the point. I never said he didn't make the mistakes, I never said they weren't awful mistakes etc. Labelling an honest pro a 'clown for essentially making himself available for years when less committed players would have retired is uncalled for imo.

By the way, no better options have been established. There is a 'theory' of moving O'Shea back there and putting St.Ledger in the middle with Dunne but come on, he has played one competitive game for Ireland.

At home to Bulgaria, there was ALOT more wrong with the performance than Kilbane's OG. Letting the opposition completely dominate you at home for a start.

Mikeyt086

I thought Caleb Folan did a brilliant job for us yesterday. He was our only source of maintaining possesion, his control and flick-ons were outstanding. I am very happy to have a player like him as our 3rd choice striker, he really looks like a handful to play against. I thought Robbie Keane would have relished the chance to play along side him, but he struggled, if that was injury related or not im not sure.

Richard Dunne eh? What a monumental performance. In a season where he failed to win his clubs player of the season for the first time in 3 years, he is certainly ours. Should we make it to South Africa i hope as much is said about Dunne as was for Keane before Japan/Korea... Obviously i want a different outcome.

If we can get a decent run from Stephen Reid, hopefully we can make it. Our midfield was brutal yesterday, we gave them so much space to create. Andrews (who i thought did well with the ball) and Whelan (who i thought was rubbish) stood off their men far too often.

Watching Sky Sports News today and Trappattoni said he is going to speak with Mark Hughes and Stephen Ireland about a possible comeback. Heres hoping.

Mac Masters

I thought we played really well yesterday considering the fact that we were missing arguably are two best 'outfield' players (Given obviously being our best). We didn't have Steven Reid (injured) and Stephen Ireland(being an ass). So with a sub par midfield we still gave the Bulgarian team a real run for their money and we could have won that.

And what's up with Dunne playing amazingly for us and then being rather 'shocking' for Man City?! But I'm not complaining! Good effort from him yesterday and hopefully he will be able to keep it up for 2010! Here's hoping! :rolleyes:

Unearthly

Must say I have been very impressed with Trap's reign. We are very hard to beat and are picking up great points. Cyprus away I'm not looking forward to at all. Hopefully Steven Reid is back to have some sort of playmaker.

Fromvert

Whats with all this Kilbane bashing, he is generally solid enough at left back. He made two mistakes, costly yeah but who should play ahead of him?

thegen

Well when Trap gave Delaney a chance there he looked good. He is a genuine left full, not playing someone there because we have no one else

dogpile

What's the guy at Villa doing these days? can't think of his name...played in the US tour a few years ago....a LB who's a LB as opposed to an old horse prolonging his career

Mr.Nice Guy

dogpile wrote: »

What's the guy at Villa doing these days? can't think of his name...played in the US tour a few years ago....a LB who's a LB as opposed to an old horse prolonging his career

Stephen O'Halloran? I think injuries have dogged his career.

noodler

Yup, not so easy to replace Kilbane is it?

dogpile

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Stephen O'Halloran? I think injuries have dogged his career.

That's the one, shame about his injuries....tbh I'd have Ian Harte back ahead of Kilbane, always knew about positional sense and always had a sweet left foot did Hartey tho never had pace but then KK has never been a Usain Bolt either

CHD

Harte is the worst LB in the history of football. Right wingers have field days against him.