Corrib gas, the truth is out

nacho libre

PrivateEye wrote: »

Opposing the giveaway of billions of quid, or a threat to your community, is not tree-huggery.
.

For those that are against this project, because they view it as a state giveway of natural resources to private interests, what is the point of directing their protest at Shell? Shell answers to shareholders and so are doing what any multinational would do. Those who negotiated the exceedingly generous terms of the deal with Shell should be the ones under scrunity.
It is the likes of Ray Burke, who use to enjoy going into meeting while his civil servants stayed outside, that their ire should be directed at. There was a reason Ray was often smiling when he would emerge from meetings to give a statement to the waiting media.

General Zod

starn wrote: »

Ok so the govermnet starts looking at basins looking for oil. Suppose they exaime five basins. No of them provide to be viable. Thats the state out over half a billion. Will you be sticking to your guns saying yes we should be looking at more sites or will you be standing outside Crumlin Childrens Hospital saying look how they are wasting out money. When we can see the rights to a external oil company and let them take on all the risk

It doesn't cost 100 million to assess a site.

headmuzik

The ~400 billion euro figure (an estimate for the entire west coast) from the WSM site and Indymedia is in agreement with figures published by Colm Rapple, an economist who has published much on the Corrib Gas saga here: http://colmrapple.com/?cat=7

Quote from July 2008 article:
"Two years ago the Department estimated that there was some 10 billion barrels of “oil equivalent” resources i.e. either crude oil or gas, under the sea bed off the west coast of Ireland. That estimate was based on a very detail assessment of the geology of the area, taking account of the difficulties and risks involved in exploiting the potential.
At our current rate of usage that would be enough to supply all of our energy needs for 90 years. At the time oil was selling for about $60 a barrel so the total estimated reserves were worth about $600 billion or €380 billion."

dlofnep

seanybiker wrote: »

It will probably be on that site I was telling ya about in a day or two. I have it sky +d(wtf) if ya wanna pop up tomorrow for a few beers and maybe a cuddle and we watch it lol

LOL - You're a good friend Seán, but I don't know if you're that good of a friend!

I'll take you up on the beers offer though! Usual place tomorrow night?

mike65

Maura Harrington is going to be interviewed on The Last Word between 6 and 7

www.todayfm.com

http://www.todayfm.com/LivePlayer.aspx

mike65

bump she's on

mal1

RATM wrote: »

Sadly thats where you are wrong. We could have got that gas out by ourselves. I've 2 uncles in the oil business, one quite high up and the other works on rigs.

They tell me there is a ton of Paddies working on rigs all across the Middle East, Malaysia, North Sea, etc. No matter where you go in the oil bisness you'll find Irish working in it.

Both are adamant that Irish people, because of their vast experience in the industry, have the expertise to take on a project of that size. And both are adamant that of all the Irish they know in the job the vast majority would kill for a move back home as long as they could continue on their career in drilling oil.

Sadly that's not going to happen, it could have been a win win situation for the government to create a national oil/gas company and let the nation benefit from the resources and wealth it would bring but the fact is FF didn't have the balls or foresight to do it.

I'm sure your uncle knows his work well but he's got this one wrong. It's like saying, 'ah sure we have lots of mechanics in Ireland, why the hell don't we build our own cars and stop importing the likes of Ford and Toyota".

A couple of 'paddies' working on oil rigs won't manage and design a project of this size. It's naive to think that we can head around the world picking up as many Oil Rig Paddies as we can, take them out to Mayo and ask them to build the pipeline. Engineering isn't that simple.

Drilling oil isn't the same as designing an oil rig, as much as driving a car, isn't the same as designing one.

galwayrush

At least while the idiots are protesting in Rossport, they are leaving everywhere else alone,obviously annoying for the good people in North Mayo, but refreshing for everywhere else.:)

yosemite_sam

mrblack wrote: »

To me the big picture is that this little country in a very precarious position of energy dependence on natural gas from UK & Russia and our own gasfield off Kinsale is declining. As an independant nation we simply must get that gas up and running before we cannot heat our homes in this winter or the next winter or whenever Putin & co decide to turn off the spigot like what happened about 18 months ago and gas pressure in western Europe declined as a result.

This guy Willie Corduff seems to be on a crusade against the pipeline just like his father opposed rural electrification. Maybe its a family tradition to be ignorant. I wonder does he use gas or maybe gas generated electricity to heat his house or cook his food. Probably half the urban dwellers in this country are within 50-100 metres of a gas pipeline at all times and the kinsale gas pipeline has operated with no problems for last 30 years.

I also wonder if these state supported protesters would agree with a giagantic windfarm instead in Mayo to generate the energy this country needs, or would they argue it should be elsewhere like many other nimbies in this country.

mrblack

Willie would probably use turf to heat his home and cook his dinner, we have wind farms down here already and wave power will be the next resource harnessed in the Erris Region. The UK are importing gas from Bahrain, they have built ships that carry the gas, in 1981 there was £25 billion arriving in the exchequer every year. Would`nt it be nice for us to be collecting that sort of money from our own gas and oil. Cowen does not need any money fron the Corrib field he has a plan b!

Blush_01

dlofnep wrote: »

It's bigotted. You're trying to attack the character of protesters by claiming that they are all on the dole. It has no bearing on the issue at hand.

Did I say all protesters, or professional protesters? There's a very, very visible distinction between the two - so please stop putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty sure the comment I made was in relation to professional protesters - you tell me.

dlofnep wrote: »

And what do you know what they gave a fcuk about? Did you ask them? Seems like you have made up your mind already about them. Your sheer and utter bigotry is not worth entertaining.

I had some very interesting conversations with many people involved. None of them mentioned even the slightest concern about the preservation of Irish national assets. Tree-huggery has been mentioned here by a number of other posters - that's what I consider professional protesters to indulge in. Frankly, it makes me angry, because if the majority of those protesters were interested in genuinely making a difference, and focused on more than mere self-indulgence there might be someone to vote for in this country. Wasted energy seems to be a better focal point for them though - their own if not the Irish nations.

dlofnep wrote: »

No, it's a very sound idea with great merit. A country nationally controlling it's resources...

... if we lived in a country that was any good at controlling it's resources, and ours is frankly not. If it was privatised (not semi-privatised, but fully privatised) by an Irish firm there might be some hope, but essentially the only difference between that and the current situation would be that an Irish company had the rights rather than a multi-national.

Then again, bigots like me aren't entitled to opinions.

starn

General Zod wrote: »

It doesn't cost 100 million to assess a site.

It does if your site is 3 Km under bedrock, seismic analysis is expensive

jenno86

PROTESTERS TO SEA.

Blush_01

A good wash for all!

Birdnuts

galwayrush wrote: »

At least while the idiots are protesting in Rossport, they are leaving everywhere else alone,obviously annoying for the good people in North Mayo, but refreshing for everywhere else.:)

Sounds like you know FA about the people of North Mayo:mad:

its no wonder this country is in such a mess given how many ignorant plastic paddies there are out there:rolleyes:

K-9

Birdnuts wrote: »

Sounds like you know FA about the people of North Mayo:mad:

its no wonder this country is in such a mess given how many ignorant plastic paddies there are out there:rolleyes:

Oh Good God, the people of North Mayo want the pipeline.

Maybe the local elections will give an indication of how the people feel?

Birdnuts

K-9 wrote: »

Oh Good God, the people of North Mayo want the pipeline.

Maybe the local elections will give an indication of how the people feel?

Have you asked them all??

The people chose Bertie for the last 10 years, I think you'll find many now bitterly regret that choice:rolleyes:

PrivateEye

jenno86 wrote: »

PROTESTERS TO SEA.

I see what you did thar :rolleyes:

http://www.corribsos.com/index.php?id=2187
I think this is really worth a read for people undecided on the issue. While its hosted on the Shell to Sea site, the article (which has no comment added by S2S) is from The Village and makes for interesting reading. The Village and The Phoenix have both run interesting pieces on the campaign/the issues at hand in recent times.

Iorras55

nacho libre wrote: »

We got the mandatory epic shots of Paul looking sagacious as he viewed the pristine landscape. The self-regard of the guy is laughable.

This documentary is much more balanced - gives both sides but keeps the like of Kevin Hegarty and other Paul Williams 'stooges' out of the picture. Unlike Paul Williams tripe, this one won award:
http://www.vimeo.com/8668733

Guill

Documentary, TV3, Paul williams..... no i didn't see it.

scientific1982

jape wrote: »

I haven't watched this but does the fact that our government - (in particular fianna fail and bertie ahern), have lost the country over €400 billion by selling those oil resources to shell then buying them back at inflated prices, not annoy anyone?

I bet that wasn't mentioned in this "unbiased" news programme. Rofl.

I know. This really angers me. The same is happening with wind farms. Private companies are making huge profits from resources that should benefit the whole state. If we managed our resources properly we wouldnt even be in the mess we're in right now.

Cantona's Collars

There was a post made early in the thread about protesters being bussed into the area-I'm from the South East and I know of at least one guy who travelled up there all the time(his place was full of anti shell signs,bet his neighbours loved that).My point is that every time a bit of progress is made in this country there's always a group set up to protest,Glen Of The Downs anyone-and that had feck all impact on the area after.
A gas pipeline to serve Co.Wexford is being planned as we speak,so when do I expect the protesters to arrive down here,we already have a "No Motorway" protest group.We complain over lack of progress and modernisation of the country but (some) people make a huge fuss when something is being done.
Even so,the companies involved e.g Shell,should be made put some of the vast profits they will make back into the communities where they have their facilities.
I've dealt with some of these 'tree huggers' before and found a lot of them to be so wrapped up in their own ideals that it is near impossible to have a sensible debate with them.They simply refuse to see the big picture and will do anything to shove their ideals down our throats.

Iorras55

scientific1982 wrote: »

I know. This really angers me. The same is happening with wind farms. Private companies are making huge profits from resources that should benefit the whole state. If we managed our resources properly we wouldnt even be in the mess we're in right now.

The Paul Williams one is long gone, thank God. It was nothing but a farce interviewing people who claimed to be 'locals' but are no such thing - even priests claiming to be 'local' who are nothing to do with the affected area. Most of it was one huge lie from start to finish - an attempt to criminalise local people as thugs - so that he could pocket euros for writing 'trash journalism' about them, as is his business! Luckily there are some who listen to the victims - An Bord Pleanala is currently deliberating - whatever pressure is on them to deliver a certain verdict, nobody knows, but at least they know the truth following several lengthy Oral Hearings over the last number of years. The 'corporatism' model that Ireland has copied from the US has been disastrous. I can't believe they are still getting away with it and cannot see the truth, so blinded by greed as the Irish have become over the last twenty odd years!

scientific1982

zerks wrote: »

There was a post made early in the thread about protesters being bussed into the area-I'm from the South East and I know of at least one guy who travelled up there all the time(his place was full of anti shell signs,bet his neighbours loved that).My point is that every time a bit of progress is made in this country there's always a group set up to protest,Glen Of The Downs anyone-and that had feck all impact on the area after.
A gas pipeline to serve Co.Wexford is being planned as we speak,so when do I expect the protesters to arrive down here,we already have a "No Motorway" protest group.We complain over lack of progress and modernisation of the country but (some) people make a huge fuss when something is being done.
Even so,the companies involved e.g Shell,should be made put some of the vast profits they will make back into the communities where they have their facilities.
I've dealt with some of these 'tree huggers' before and found a lot of them to be so wrapped up in their own ideals that it is near impossible to have a sensible debate with them.They simply refuse to see the big picture and will do anything to shove their ideals down our throats.

See thats one thing I admire the British and our continental neighbours for, they preserve while we just fcukin bulldozer anything if it will make a quick buck. No need for thinking in the long-term when profits are to be made in the short-term. Jesus we really are a banana republic. Its no wonder FF are in power.

Cantona's Collars

scientific1982 wrote: »

See thats one thing I admire the British and our continental neighbours for, they preserve while we just fcukin bulldozer anything if it will make a quick buck. No need for thinking in the long-term when profits are to be made in the short-term. Jesus we really are a banana republic. Its no wonder FF are in power.

I'm all for preserving our heritage and environment but at the same time I don't want to live in the 19th century and use horses to get around.Look at Italy for example-you can't scratch the ground for historical artifacts turning up but they still build infrastructure.Progress is vital for a countries survival,my argument is that progress should be made for the benefit of the country and it's people and not for vested interests.
Just look at all the ghost estates in rural ireland that are a blot on the landscape which were purely built for profit.We have vast natural resources off our coast and why not make use of them.We try to portray ourselves as a modern country and the "Silicon Valley" of Europe but certain people are stuck in a timewarp and would rather a return to the good old days.
I want power,heat and other essentials at the touch of a button.I also want to be able to drive on decent roads and will argue the toss with any 'tree hugger' that would prefer I sat by a turf fire in a hut and rode around on a donkey.

sealgaire

Exaggerating a bit?

zerks wrote: »

I'm all for preserving our heritage and environment but at the same time I don't want to live in the 19th century and use horses to get around.Look at Italy for example-you can't scratch the ground for historical artifacts turning up but they still build infrastructure.Progress is vital for a countries survival,my argument is that progress should be made for the benefit of the country and it's people and not for vested interests.
Just look at all the ghost estates in rural ireland that are a blot on the landscape which were purely built for profit.We have vast natural resources off our coast and why not make use of them.We try to portray ourselves as a modern country and the "Silicon Valley" of Europe but certain people are stuck in a timewarp and would rather a return to the good old days.
I want power,heat and other essentials at the touch of a button.I also want to be able to drive on decent roads and will argue the toss with any 'tree hugger' that would prefer I sat by a turf fire in a hut and rode around on a donkey.

scientific1982

zerks wrote: »

I'm all for preserving our heritage and environment but at the same time I don't want to live in the 19th century and use horses to get around.Look at Italy for example-you can't scratch the ground for historical artifacts turning up but they still build infrastructure.Progress is vital for a countries survival,my argument is that progress should be made for the benefit of the country and it's people and not for vested interests.
Just look at all the ghost estates in rural ireland that are a blot on the landscape which were purely built for profit.We have vast natural resources off our coast and why not make use of them.We try to portray ourselves as a modern country and the "Silicon Valley" of Europe but certain people are stuck in a timewarp and would rather a return to the good old days.
I want power,heat and other essentials at the touch of a button.I also want to be able to drive on decent roads and will argue the toss with any 'tree hugger' that would prefer I sat by a turf fire in a hut and rode around on a donkey.

Mate im with you as far as progress and making use of our natural resources. What I have issue with is our inept government selling the rights of said natural resources to a private company, with very little in return to benefit the country. James Connolly is rolling in his fcuking grave.

MagicSean

About half way through this documentary. So far the Shell to Sea campaigners don't appear to have any actual facts. Pretty much what I've expected so far.

prinz

scientific1982 wrote: »

What I have issue with is our inept government selling the rights of said natural resources to a private company, with very little in return to benefit the country. James Connolly is rolling in his fcuking grave.

25% tax on all profits as well as a further cut as the State is a shareholder in the company going to be running the Corrib field IRRC. For very little State financial investment that's not bad going at all.

Cantona's Collars

scientific1982 wrote: »

Mate im with you as far as progress and making use of our natural resources. What I have issue with is our inept government selling the rights of said natural resources to a private company, with very little in return to benefit the country. James Connolly is rolling in his fcuking grave.

I agree wholeheartedly-the FF regime would have sold the country to satan for a quick buck.Take the M50 toll plaza as a prime example-I still get angry about that.Close controls need to be kept on the contracts that are signed off on regarding these companies,fair enough they are in business to make profits but not at the expense of the country,a bit of give and take is needed.
However the scaremongering and half balked ideology of these protesters is laughable.I'd love to hear the opinions of the REAL locals on the Shell facility.How many of those interviewed have Mayo accents? There's a guy from Galway who seems to make a career from objecting to civil projects no matter where in the country they are,hope he turns up in person when the Enniscorthy bypass is started,I'll show him objections;).
I mentioned the Glen Of The Downs scenario earlier and remember the majority of protesters interviewed weren't even Irish ffs.
With the country at rock bottom we can make a fresh start and the only way is up,lets not have greed and misguided hippies stand in the way or f*ck it up for future generations.

scientific1982

prinz wrote: »

25% tax on all profits as well as a further cut as the State is a shareholder in the company going to be running the Corrib field IRRC. For very little State financial investment that's not bad going at all.

Considering the profits that shell stand to make, no I dont think its a great deal.

MagicSean

Iorras55 wrote: »

This documentary is much more balanced - gives both sides but keeps the like of Kevin Hegarty and other Paul Williams 'stooges' out of the picture. Unlike Paul Williams tripe, this one won award:
http://www.vimeo.com/8668733

There is nothing balanced about this documentary. It just has a few sound bytes from Shell and a local councilman and about 50 minutes of ranting from Shell to Sea people. If it wanted to be unbiased it could mention that the two "activists" shown are not from the area (one appears to be from Canada), or that all the accusations made by the speakers are supported by no actual evidence, or that their understanding of the law is non-existant.

MagicSean

scientific1982 wrote: »

Considering the profits that shell stand to make, no I dont think its a great deal.

Why? Because they get a return on their massive investment and production? The bastards.

prinz

scientific1982 wrote: »

Considering the profits that shell stand to make, no I dont think its a great deal.

You realise Shell and co have put billions into drilling for oil and gas around Ireland? If they weren't making a tidy profit they wouldn't bother, and nobody would be getting anything. The Irish State certainly isn't going to spend 30 odd years dropping exploration wells at €50 Million a go with only a 2% chance of actually hitting anything worth bringing to the surface.

scientific1982

k_mac wrote: »

Why? Because they get a return on their massive investment and production? The bastards.

No, because we should be getting more than 25%.

MagicSean

scientific1982 wrote: »

No, because we should be getting more than 25%.

But we haven't done anything.

dolphin city

was that the one where they had an "amendment" at the end of the programme saying that what the protesters were saying was true.

paul williams is like a cartoon character. he makes me laugh.

Cantona's Collars

These Shell To Sea campaigners should take a look at what oil and gas companies do in the wilds of Alaska.They work in some of the most pristine areas on the planet and are all about the environment.The impact on the landscape is kept to a minimum and rightly so.How is Mayo any different? The only time I've heard of a disaster involving any of these facilities is in Africa where locals tamper with them to steal fuel.
What the hell is a Canadian doing over here protesting,surely there's plenty of similar facilities over there or maybe it's too cold in winter to lie down in front of a truck.Pollution and exploitation will only occur if it is let,surely we're not as bad as some of the Banana Republics that would let companies do as they will in return for monetary gain.(On the other hand:rolleyes:)
I don't agree with sensationalist journalism for the sake of a story but at least it gives us some insight into the misguided and frankly banana's ideals of some of these protesters.

scientific1982

prinz wrote: »

You realise Shell and co have put billions into drilling for oil and gas around Ireland? If they weren't making a tidy profit they wouldn't bother, and nobody would be getting anything. The Irish State certainly isn't going to spend 30 odd years dropping exploration wells at €50 Million a go with only a 2% chance of actually hitting anything worth bringing to the surface.

Let me get this straight. You think an enegry giant like shell, with some of the most advanced technology known to man, is going to invest billions of euro into a project with only a 2% chance of a return.

scientific1982

zerks wrote: »

These Shell To Sea campaigners should take a look at what oil and gas companies do in the wilds of Alaska.They work in some of the most pristine areas on the planet and are all about the environment.The impact on the landscape is kept to a minimum and rightly so.How is Mayo any different? The only time I've heard of a disaster involving any of these facilities is in Africa where locals tamper with them to steal fuel.
What the hell is a Canadian doing over here protesting,surely there's plenty of similar facilities over there or maybe it's too cold in winter to lie down in front of a truck.Pollution and exploitation will only occur if it is let,surely we're not as bad as some of the Banana Republics that would let companies do as they will in return for monetary gain.(On the other hand:rolleyes:)
I don't agree with sensationalist journalism for the sake of a story but at least it gives us some insight into the misguided and frankly banana's ideals of some of these protesters.

Lest were forget the little hiccup BP had over the summer.

prinz

scientific1982 wrote: »

Let me get this straight. You think an enegry giant like shell, with some of the most advanced technology known to man, is going to invest billions of euro into a project with only a 2% chance of a return.

They invest billions because the potential pay off is worth it. Take a bigger tax slice out of that, and they won't be as bothered.

Arguments about Ireland's “great gas giveaway” often ignore the facts. Irish and international exploration companies, have invested in excess of €2 billion drilling unsuccessfully in Irish waters over the past 30 years.
Approximately 140 unsuccessful wells have been drilled. The average cost of drilling a single deep water exploration well off the Irish coast of Ireland exceeds €50 million. The chances of achieving exploration success are less than 40 to 1.

http://www.shell.ie/home/content/irl/aboutshell/shell_businesses/e_and_p/corrib/faq/

A policy paper published by the the association this month, which is unusually upbeat, notes that the industry has spent about €3 billion drilling 130 exploration wells with “limited success”, and says a single exploration well off the west coast costs more than €50 million.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1115/1224283325829.html

FlutterinBantam

brundle wrote: »

Anyone see the paul williams programme on TV3. Being local myself, I can say that it covered the issues and got it pretty damn spot on. Those three huggers have no support locally and hopefully now the rest of the country can see whats really going on there.

We know all that, the agitators are largely made up of people with an axe to grind and left wing activists.

Nothing new there

Cantona's Collars

scientific1982 wrote: »

Lest were forget the little hiccup BP had over the summer.

Touche:) But didn't the locals do well for themselves financially because of it and now the impact was found to be negligible.Didn't hear of any Shell to Sea campaigners flying out there to help.

youtheman

scientific1982 wrote: »

Let me get this straight. You think an enegry giant like shell, with some of the most advanced technology known to man, is going to invest billions of euro into a project with only a 2% chance of a return.

No - you got it wrong. A exploration well will cost approx €50M with a 2% chance of a discovery. But they only get the billions if its a sucess. And that cost is only the exploration cost.

So rough maths means €50m x 50 (i.e. 2% chance) = €2.5 billion before you have a success. Then you have the cost of developing and running the gas/oil field.

You can't have it both ways. The person who takes the financial risk is entitled to the financial rewards. You either have state oil & gas companies (like Norway or Malaysia who pay for the exploration and production) or you let in the private companies and try to re-coup something by way of taxes etc. if they manage to make a successful discovery.

aDeener

RATM wrote: »

Well I didnt see it but the fact that Paul McWilliams was presenting it makes any claims made on it seem less credible tbh.

is he the economist who gives all the bankers and developers nicknames that no one ever calls them? :pac:

scientific1982

youtheman wrote: »

No - you got it wrong. A exploration well will cost approx €50M with a 2% chance of a discovery. But they only get the billions if its a sucess. And that cost is only the exploration cost.

So rough maths means €50m x 50 (i.e. 2% chance) = €2.5 billion before you have a success. Then you have the cost of developing and running the gas/oil field.

You can't have it both ways. The person who takes the financial risk is entitled to the financial rewards. You either have state oil & gas companies (like Norway or Malaysia who pay for the exploration and production) or you let in the private companies and try to re-coup something by way of taxes etc. if they manage to make a successful discovery.

No mate. I understand how it works. It costs billions to makes hundreds of billions. I was merely simplifying an earlier point made by Prinz, which would have people believe that companies like shell fork out billions with only a slim chance of making a significant return. Thereby justifying their share of the profits made from our natural resources.

goose2005

zerks wrote: »

There was a post made early in the thread about protesters being bussed into the area-I'm from the South East and I know of at least one guy who travelled up there all the time(his place was full of anti shell signs,bet his neighbours loved that).My point is that every time a bit of progress is made in this country there's always a group set up to protest,Glen Of The Downs anyone-and that had feck all impact on the area after.

How does giving a load of money to Shell signify 'progress'?

The Waltzing Consumer

dolphin city wrote: »

was that the one where they had an "amendment" at the end of the programme saying that what the protesters were saying was true.

paul williams is like a cartoon character. he makes me laugh.

Yep, everything they said was true, I myself am confident of the honesty and lawful nature of Shell to Sea. I support them and know that they will get me a job. I know they will never lie, exaggerative or ignore the majority of people. They are so popular in Mayo, all the TDs and local councillors are from Shell to Sea, it is the truth. Now if you watch "mainstream" media, they may show you other pictures of politicians getting elected, but thats propaganda, that is actually a bunch of cats taped together.

Since Shell to Sea began, every person in Mayo support them, they all vote for them, never once has any other politician from another party gotten any votes. Its true. Even the Gardai from Mayo support Shell to Sea.

Paul Williams is a cartoon character, but when everyone stops watching him or buying his books, he can join Shell to Sea and live in cuckoo-land where everyone loves you and supports you and you can live happily ever after.

MagicSean

scientific1982 wrote: »

No mate. I understand how it works. It costs billions to makes hundreds of billions. I was merely simplifying an earlier point made by Prinz, which would have people believe that companies like shell fork out billions with only a slim chance of making a significant return. Thereby justifying their share of the profits made from our natural resources.

What good are our natural resources to us when they are buried beneath the sea?

scientific1982

k_mac wrote: »

What good are our natural resources to us when they are buried beneath the sea?

Not very much. Lucky for Norway that they found a way around that wasnt it. They dont seem to be suffering anywhere near what we are. But I guess we're just thick paddies who'll have to rely on smarter people to help us out. Good thing shell came to the rescue and liberated us from the burden of our own natural resources.

MagicSean

scientific1982 wrote: »

Not very much. Lucky for Norway that they found a way around that wasnt it. They dont seem to be suffering anywhere near what we are. But I guess we're just thick paddies who'll have to rely on smarter people to help us out. Good thing shell came to the rescue and liberated us from the burden of our own natural resources.

How are we suffering?