Corrib gas, the truth is out

Padraig Mor · 30-11-2010 2:28pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Well yes it is very hard to understand. You speak of these communities disdain to join in the cronyism and corrupt nature of local or national politics, you speak like the community is vastly of the same opinion of you, yet they do not put candidates up for election because "power corrupts", but this is the weird part, the majority of people vote, and vote for the same groups, FF FG etc., that implement policies you say the community rallies against.

But you guys did involve yourselves with "power" with Jerry Cowley, a sitting TD, who supported Shell to Sea, and was beaten badly in 2007 general election.

Oh and the 2007 results. http://electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2007&cons=172

Jerry Cowley got just over 3400 votes which represents 4.7% of people in Mayo. Does not sound like he topped any poll.

So I hope you can see my confusion when you say certain things but they do not add up at all. It looks like your group or people who are anti-Shell do involve themselves in politics, Jerry Cowley for instance who was a TD, and then get wiped out in the 2007 elections.

It sounds mightily like "we got beaten badly in elections, have no significant local support" has turned into "power corrupts, we don't run in elections, it's all corrupt anyway". Can you explain this double standard? Why pretend to ignore the democratic process when you have engaged in it? Is it just because you have very little support and won't win?

There's no point arguing with the S2S clowns. They have virtually zero support, both locally locally and nationally, as evidenced by the elections they are now trying to dismiss. The vast majority of people in the area are in favour of the project and live in fear of what the S2S rent-a-thugs will do next. The carping about the Gardai and IRMS is hilarious - they only reason they are around is the anti-democratic, criminal actions of S2S and their cohorts.

Is mise le key · 30-11-2010 2:34pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

They have virtually zero support, both locally locally and nationally,.

These have publicly given their support,

.The Socialist Party
.The Socialist Workers Party
.The Workers Party
.The Woodland League
.Louth County Council
.Sligo County Council
.Sligo Borough Council
.Gluaiseacht for Global Justice
.London Greens
.The Louisiana Bucket Brigade
.Robert Ballagh
.Frances Black
.Luka Bloom
.Eamon Dunphy
.Christy Moore
.Leo Moran
.(The Sawdoctors)
.Barry Murphy
.Fintan O Toole
.Des Bonass DCTU
.Noel Murphy IWU
.Jack O' Connor SIPTU
.Mick O Reilly Secretary ATGWU
.Eddie Punch ICSA
.Gerry Adams MP
.Tommy Broughan TD
.Paudge Connolly TD
.Jerry Cowley TD
.Seán Crowe TD
.Bairbre De Brún MEP
.Pat Doherty MP
.Martin Ferris TD
.Michelle Gildernew MP
.Tony Gregory TD (RIP)
.Seamus Healy TD
.Michael D Higgins TD
.Joe Higgins TD
.Caroline Lucas MEP UK Greens
.Mary Lou Mc Donald MEP
.Finian Mc Grath TD
.Martin Mc Guinness MP
.Arthur Morgan TD
.Catherine Murphy TD
.Conor Murphy MP
.Senator David Norris
.Caoimhghín O Caolain TD
.Aengus O' Snodaigh TD
.Pat Rabbitte TD
.Michael Ring TD
.Jonas Sjostedt MEP Swedish Left Party
.Senator Joanna Tuffy

Iorras55 · 30-11-2010 2:45pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Okay, please don't use online polls where any user can refresh a page and vote as many times as they want, as evidence of support for anything, that is ridiculous and the weakest argument I have seen on this thread yet.

Secondly, I read that letter. The person argues that parts of Mayo are sparsely populated and has little electoral clout. So in other words, don't read too much into voting in these areas. Yet in the very next part they use the results from some of these sparsely populated areas to champion Cowley. A bit hypocritical? Which one is it?

He got a lot of votes locally, so that is great, but got wiped out overall, so ignore that part, that means nothing.

Okay, I am getting pretty fed up with debating with you, no offense, you just keep moving the goalposts. You say one thing, I find something which proves otherwise, you bring up something else, I again find something to challenge that, you again move on to something else, again I find something to challenge that, you move on etc..

This is how I would imagine debating FF would be like. So thanks, you have been no help at all and I resent you keep referring to prepared arguements crafted by Shell to Sea rather than your own personal views which I was looking for aswell.

To be honest, I'm a bit fed up with you as well - "refresh a page and vote as many times as you want"?? maybe you can manipulate your computer to do that - I don't know how to! Here, occupy yourself reading the issues for a while - clearly laid out here - this is the truth - if you don't like it then hard luck!
http://citizensimon.blogspot.com/2010/07/shell-and-corrib-field.html

yosemite_sam · 30-11-2010 2:50pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

There's no point arguing with the S2S clowns. They have virtually zero support, both locally locally and nationally, as evidenced by the elections they are now trying to dismiss. The vast majority of people in the area are in favour of the project and live in fear of what the S2S rent-a-thugs will do next. The carping about the Gardai and IRMS is hilarious - they only reason they are around is the anti-democratic, criminal actions of S2S and their cohorts.

Ill informed nonsense you talk, I would safely say there are 30% for and 70% against. Shell to sea don't do themselves any favours with their methods but they are right. Have you been down here, I did not find it hilarious having IRMS personal parked out side my place of work photographing my customers. When was the last time you were stopped on the public highway and asked what business you have travelling that road.

The Waltzing Consumer · 30-11-2010 3:22pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

There's no point arguing with the S2S clowns. They have virtually zero support, both locally locally and nationally, as evidenced by the elections they are now trying to dismiss. The vast majority of people in the area are in favour of the project and live in fear of what the S2S rent-a-thugs will do next. The carping about the Gardai and IRMS is hilarious - they only reason they are around is the anti-democratic, criminal actions of S2S and their cohorts.

Seems that way. Look at the logic, all credible stats and records of local/general elections point to a lowering of support to S2S, it's diminishing, fair enough, that happens with many groups. Most groups would accept it and work within their support. But no, they point to outdated lists with no reference or links, they condemn the electoral process when they lose, but not if they win, they point to online polls where users can simply vote, refresh page, vote again, as evidence for "support" and classic contribution from latest S2S poster, " I would safely say there are 30% for and 70% against" based on zero evidence and going completely against any credible statistics, polls, results. This is comical ali stuff.

Iorras55 · 30-11-2010 3:35pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Seems that way.

Yosemite_Sam: wrote:

Ill informed nonsense you talk, I would safely say there are 30% for and 70% against. Shell to sea don't do themselves any favours with their methods but they are right. Have you been down here, I did not find it hilarious having IRMS personal parked out side my place of work photographing my customers. When was the last time you were stopped on the public highway and asked what business you have travelling that road.

Do you know what I would say Waltzing consumer!? I'd say that you're looking at a post from a local who is writing from their heart - and, after all, isn't that who you just said you wanted to converse with - to get their opinion?

You are not worth their while are you? You're an ignorant, ill-informed, brain-dead, moronic half wit and apparently you are quite happy to stay that way. You've proved it when local people try to tell you the truth.

You asked about Cowley - I gave you the facts and you have thrown them back in my face with despicable comments attached thereto. You're of no value to anybody and no value to the future of Ireland.

It's a good thing you live elsewhere. Just go away and leave us in peace!

Mod note: Poster banned for this comment.

The Waltzing Consumer · 30-11-2010 3:56pm

Iorras55 wrote: »

Do you know what I would say Waltzing consumer!? I'd say that you're looking at a post from a local who is writing from their heart - and, after all, isn't that who you just said you wanted to converse with - to get their opinion?

You are not worth their while are you? You're an ignorant, ill-informed, brain-dead, moronic half wit and apparently you are quite happy to stay that way. You've proved it when local people try to tell you the truth.

You asked about Cowley - I gave you the facts and you have thrown them back in my face with despicable comments attached thereto. You're of no value to anybody and no value to the future of Ireland.

It's a good thing you live elsewhere. Just go away and leave us in peace!

Okay, breathe, calm down. I will go through what you said.

If the person is a local, that is fine, he can give whatever opinion he wants. The problem is when someone gives baseless sources about support. So provide some credible source or people will contest the claim. I contested them when I look at local and general election results and voting patterns and it did not match the claim at all.

The highlighted part is just abuse and I am not sure why it has to be like that. I am not reporting it which I could do. Attack my stats, attack electionsireland, attack the argument, but don't attack the poster.

About Cowley, well, you made claims about his popularity, I looked at results of elections compared to results of him before he supported S2S and the figures speak for themselves. A sitting TD was voted out in the election . Hardly dispicable comments are they? It shows his popularity waned and the majority of people did not vote for him. Only over 3000 people did. Again, what is dispicable about stating the figures?

I am not sure about your whole "leave us in peace" comment, seems to me that you wanted people to support you from all over Ireland, but now you have gone very parochial in your approach because I am not agreeing with you.

joebucks · 01-12-2010 4:03pm

For anyone interested in this, John Kelly's review of 'The Pipe' on the View last night is up on RTE iplayer

Not sure if it permitted to post such things but here's the link

Duncan31 · 01-12-2010 8:26pm

Just to inform the folks who doubt I am local - I am living basically on the shore of Broadhaven bay, having lived here my entire life. I can see all the comings and goings of drilling rigs etc. I think that makes me local enough to comment on the project.
Also, I am not in a position to gain a single cent from the project outside of the general boost to spending in the area which does filter down to everyone. I therefore cannot be accused of being in favour of this to get my hand on compensation etc.
I would not dream of identifying myself any further given the tactics used by the shell to sea group. No doubt I would receive threatening phonecalls etc if I was to be identified as most of the pro gas people have received.
Going back to Jerry Cowley - He got a handfull of votes locally. Ok he was always going to get the vote of the people whom he actually marched/protested with. Unfortunately, and probably unknown to Jerry, the majority of those protesting didnt have a vote in this area as they were mostly rent a crowd hippies and so he ended up looking rather silly.
Additionally, shell to sea would have us believe that the complete county (if not country) is behind them in their protest but again the general election shows that Jerry Cowleys vote disappeared in most boxes. I can tell you honestly the opinion of the people here on Jerry Cowley. HE was liked, he did alot for homeless Irish people in uk, getting sheltered housing build and bringing them back home etc. When people saw him continuously out with the shell to sea gang, the general response was - Whats wrong with Cowley - He is ruining himself. On the other hand, Michael Ring, the best known mouth piece in the Dail, a man who will get up and shout about everything and anything steered well clear of the shell to sea campaign commenting that the law of the land would ensure everything was being done as it should. Again Ring, a massive vote getter retained his vote (in Rossport also)
The manner in which this S2S campaign is carried out is quite sickening, violence, intimidation, lies and trickery, anything required to stall the progress of the works. An additional aspect of this terrible campaign is the fact that ordinary folks getting to work in the area (not even working on the gas works) were being delayed, stopped & questioned by undesirables, only being allowed to proceed if there particular destination was approved by S2S.
I could go on forever about the crap thats taking place here. Earlier in this thread someone commented that there is no issue with locals obtaining short term work on the project! If that was true, then why turn ordinary hardworking lorry drivers etc lives into a misery by climbing onto trucks, damaging trucks, throwing rocks at security (many of whom are local).
Myself having a degree level qualification relating to some of the envionmental issues raised about this project, and having researched the processes in use at the plant to prevent damage to water resources etc, I would be very confident that everything is being done to a very high standard. Also in relation to pressure in a pipe, people have not got a clue what they are actually talking about. Given that pressure relates to force over a given area, there are other factors to consider when determining what an explosion would be like yet only pressure is ever mentioned.
Where are you from Iorras55?

Edit: I see Iorras55 banned. The insults are typical of S2S members. They try to talk people down, some of them actually being very intelligent. When the argument starts to go against them, they resort to the dirty tactics.

Iorras55 · 04-12-2010 12:51pm

You're saying you don't work for them? With your qualifications didn't you miss your opportunity? Nothing however detracts from the fact that your comments, and there are so many inaccuracies that it is impossible to pick out just one or two, above are quite simply wrong! To anyone who doesn't know better, Broadhaven Bay is not where the proposed project is sited. Only one small portion of it leads into the 'affected area'. Duncan31 is not an affected local, otherwise he would be of a different shade. BTW - Michael Ring always has and always will get my vote -one of the few sound and basically uncorrupted politicians we have left (as far as we can tell!). Cowley too. Duncan31:cool: has a slick tongue but is not telling the whole truth - not at all, at all!:)

And, apologies Waltzing consumer! Lost my rag! Sorry!

sligometalhead · 04-12-2010 3:30pm

Bosco boy wrote: »

I'd be more concerned with Eirigi, I know they exist!

Are you denying there were members of a fascist terrorist organisation working for IRMS in Erris?

Bosco boy · 04-12-2010 4:03pm

sligometalhead wrote: »

Are you denying there were members of a fascist terrorist organisation working for IRMS in Erris?

simply don't know! There could be one in my local supervalu as well!

sligometalhead · 04-12-2010 4:10pm

Bosco boy wrote: »

simply don't know! There could be one in my local supervalu as well!

Whatever about your local Supervalu, the links to the Fascist Terrorism Group the Szekler Legion and the Chico Flores led band of fascist mercenaries who were killed and captured in Bolivia (including Irishman Micheal Dwyer) have been well established.

sligometalhead · 04-12-2010 7:10pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

There's no point arguing with the S2S clowns. They have virtually zero support, both locally locally and nationally, as evidenced by the elections they are now trying to dismiss.

Then call their bluff. Hold a referendum on whether we should continue to give away our natural resources including the Corrib Gas or whether we should nationalise them. Woudl you support holding such a referendum?

Padraig Mor

The vast majority of people in the area are in favour of the project

What evidence is that based on?

and live in fear of what the S2S rent-a-thugs will do next

What evidence is that based on?

The carping about the Gardai and IRMS is hilarious - they only reason they are around is the anti-democratic, criminal actions of S2S and their cohorts.

So you find the criminal actions of the Gardai and IRMS, including intimidation, arbitary & illegal detention and arrest, assault etc, to be funny? Why?

Duncan31 · 04-12-2010 8:07pm

Iorras55 wrote: »

You're saying you don't work for them? With your qualifications didn't you miss your opportunity? Nothing however detracts from the fact that your comments, and there are so many inaccuracies that it is impossible to pick out just one or two, above are quite simply wrong! To anyone who doesn't know better, Broadhaven Bay is not where the proposed project is sited. Only one small portion of it leads into the 'affected area'. Duncan31 is not an affected local, otherwise he would be of a different shade. BTW - Michael Ring always has and always will get my vote -one of the few sound and basically uncorrupted politicians we have left (as far as we can tell!). Cowley too. Duncan31:cool: has a slick tongue but is not telling the whole truth - not at all, at all!:)

And, apologies Waltzing consumer! Lost my rag! Sorry!

Dont think I missed an opportunity as I have a job in an unrelated field now. You know what, I will agree with you. Im in Broadhaven bay and I will agree that this development will have no effect on this location. Given that Im in sight distance of the works, that surely says it all.
Its funny how on one hand S2S can argue that the project will destroy the fishing waters, the drinking water supply, create a visual intrusion for miles around yet when myself, a local, depending on the very same carrowmore water supply, living on the shores of those very same fishing waters and looking across at the various activities daily argues that we have no issues with the project, you say that suddenly being within sight dstance is not sufficiently 'local' to be affected. You would need to make up your mind.
Just to prve that Im not so much a Shell supporter, I will admit that they would have little regard for environmental issues if left to thei own devices. I do however believe - from experience of dealing with the EPA professionally that they are a more than capable agency and dont see any benefit in a group of blowins staging dodgy protests whose message changes depending on who caught them out last.
One example of this that makes me laugh was the case of Dr Mark Garvin on a prime time special live from Broadhaven Hotel Belmullet. Dr Mark being one of the more intelligent persons involved in this campaign spoke well in general and never resorted to the disgusting behaviour of Maura Harrington & co. Dr Mark seems to have left S2S as I havent seen him since that. Anyway, Dr Mark was speaking on the show about how he had no issue whatsoever with the gas field being developed and that he was only interested in it being developed in a safe manner. Immediately one of the other panelists produced a submission written by Dr Mark which basically made the argument for the gas being left untouched below the sea bed. That type of thing, IMO is typical of S2S - continually attempting to move the goalposts, afterall, if I remember correctly, the S2S name only came about when the initial campaign of stopping the project completely failed to gather any support.

Oh and you didnt answer my question - Where are you from Iorras55?

Duncan31 · 04-12-2010 8:24pm

sligometalhead wrote: »

Then call their bluff. Hold a referendum on whether we should continue to give away our natural resources including the Corrib Gas or whether we should nationalise them. Woudl you support holding such a referendum?

I would 100% support such a referendum if the deal was not already signed up. Still no doubt we should have that vote and be clear on any future deals being more beneficial to the people.
Still, taking the S2S argument, how would this have any effect on what they call an unsave pipeline?

Birdnuts · 04-12-2010 8:39pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Okay, breathe, calm down. I will go through what you said.

If the person is a local, that is fine, he can give whatever opinion he wants. The problem is when someone gives baseless sources about support. So provide some credible source or people will contest the claim. I contested them when I look at local and general election results and voting patterns and it did not match the claim at all.

The highlighted part is just abuse and I am not sure why it has to be like that. I am not reporting it which I could do. Attack my stats, attack electionsireland, attack the argument, but don't attack the poster.

About Cowley, well, you made claims about his popularity, I looked at results of elections compared to results of him before he supported S2S and the figures speak for themselves. A sitting TD was voted out in the election . Hardly dispicable comments are they? It shows his popularity waned and the majority of people did not vote for him. Only over 3000 people did. Again, what is dispicable about stating the figures?

I am not sure about your whole "leave us in peace" comment, seems to me that you wanted people to support you from all over Ireland, but now you have gone very parochial in your approach because I am not agreeing with you.

Sinn Fein unseated the sitting FFailer in the area in the last local election - I suggest you inform yourself of SF's policy on the Corrib Gas before you go on another silly inaccurate rant:rolleyes:

Birdnuts · 04-12-2010 8:53pm

Duncan31 wrote: »

I do however believe - from experience of dealing with the EPA professionally that they are a more than capable agency and dont see any benefit in a group of blowins staging dodgy protests whose message changes depending on who caught them out last.
?

Really - I think you'll find many people from around the country would have a very different opinion of the EPA. Their is a long list of failures by the EPA relating to numerious cases, from the former Ispat site in Cork Harbour to various dodgy landfills in Kildare to name but a few where this agency who's board is primarily made up of ex-corporate types has failed miserably in their primary function of safe-guarding our environment.

PS: Its also well known that the EPA's director appeared in a promotional video for the Corrib Gas Project before she took up her current job!!

goat2 · 04-12-2010 9:06pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Well yes it is very hard to understand. You speak of these communities disdain to join in the cronyism and corrupt nature of local or national politics, you speak like the community is vastly of the same opinion of you, yet they do not put candidates up for election because "power corrupts", but this is the weird part, the majority of people vote, and vote for the same groups, FF FG etc., that implement policies you say the community rallies against.

But you guys did involve yourselves with "power" with Jerry Cowley, a sitting TD, who supported Shell to Sea, and was beaten badly in 2007 general election.

Oh and the 2007 results. http://electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2007&cons=172

Jerry Cowley got just over 3400 votes which represents 4.7% of people in Mayo. Does not sound like he topped any poll.

So I hope you can see my confusion when you say certain things but they do not add up at all. It looks like your group or people who are anti-Shell do involve themselves in politics, Jerry Cowley for instance who was a TD, and then get wiped out in the 2007 elections.

It sounds mightily like "we got beaten badly in elections, have no significant local support" has turned into "power corrupts, we don't run in elections, it's all corrupt anyway". Can you explain this double standard? Why pretend to ignore the democratic process when you have engaged in it? Is it just because you have very little support and won't win?

ye had one of the best men in government in jerry cowley, remember he looked after the aged and infirm, and this is the thanks he got, he is too good for that kind of treatment from people who dont know better

Birdnuts · 04-12-2010 9:11pm

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/Ormonde-Brick-slammed-in-EU.3365087.jp

Anyone who thinks environmental regulation in this country is any better then our financial regulation is eithier a fool or vested interest:rolleyes: - in many ways the same types of people that are primary responsible for the current wretched state of the country:mad:

PS: This makes for interesting reading too:http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=9&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsaoirse.21.forumer.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D287%26sid%3Dac1b597aa77093f4e71059fdc2f8edb7&ei=9aH6TIqVFMKxhQfSgOmVCw&usg=AFQjCNFvWV5VBrfF7pLt3PjUQYxqVnxw6w

Birdnuts · 04-12-2010 9:33pm

Bosco boy wrote: »

simply don't know! There could be one in my local supervalu as well!

You must have missed the Prime Time programme on this which was pretty compelling on the subject - or do you rely on O'Reilly's ragsheets for your view of the world which appears to be a the case for alot of Shell's apologists on here:rolleyes:

Iorras55 · 04-12-2010 9:44pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

You must have missed the Prime Time programme on this which was pretty compelling on the subject - or do you rely on O'Reilly's ragsheets for your view of the world which appears to be a the case for alot of Shell's apologists on here:rolleyes:

+1,000,000. Well said!

Iorras55 · 04-12-2010 10:15pm

Duncan31 wrote: »

Dont think I missed an opportunity as I have a job in an unrelated field now. You know what, I will agree with you. Im in Broadhaven bay and I will agree that this development will have no effect on this location. Given that Im in sight distance of the works, that surely says it all.
Its funny how on one hand S2S can argue that the project will destroy the fishing waters, the drinking water supply, create a visual intrusion for miles around yet when myself, a local, depending on the very same carrowmore water supply, living on the shores of those very same fishing waters and looking across at the various activities daily argues that we have no issues with the project, you say that suddenly being within sight dstance is not sufficiently 'local' to be affected. You would need to make up your mind.
Just to prve that Im not so much a Shell supporter, I will admit that they would have little regard for environmental issues if left to thei own devices. I do however believe - from experience of dealing with the EPA professionally that they are a more than capable agency and dont see any benefit in a group of blowins staging dodgy protests whose message changes depending on who caught them out last.
One example of this that makes me laugh was the case of Dr Mark Garvin on a prime time special live from Broadhaven Hotel Belmullet. Dr Mark being one of the more intelligent persons involved in this campaign spoke well in general and never resorted to the disgusting behaviour of Maura Harrington & co. Dr Mark seems to have left S2S as I havent seen him since that. Anyway, Dr Mark was speaking on the show about how he had no issue whatsoever with the gas field being developed and that he was only interested in it being developed in a safe manner. Immediately one of the other panelists produced a submission written by Dr Mark which basically made the argument for the gas being left untouched below the sea bed. That type of thing, IMO is typical of S2S - continually attempting to move the goalposts, afterall, if I remember correctly, the S2S name only came about when the initial campaign of stopping the project completely failed to gather any support.

Oh and you didnt answer my question - Where are you from Iorras55?

Good, ul be able to afford to buy bottled water in the future then? Carrowmore water is fine - now - tastes great. I have no problem with it - now! With Shell's refinery less than a mile from it, I wonder how long that will last if it got the go-ahead.

What's with the membership of S2S? U assume I am one and have done since you started slagging me off here. I'm not! And, as far as I know, nobody is. S2S has no membership list that I know about. Is Shelltosea all you know about? As someone else said, is the O'Reilly owned Independent or other rags the source of your knowledge? If so, better upgrade? It seems to me that you live in a great deal of oblivious bliss! Hope you always can!

What works are you in sight of? The refinery 10 kms inland? The boreholes in Sruth Fhada Chonn? The storage area at Ballyglass? The proposed LVI at glengad? The sand martin's cliff they destroyed there? The proposed whatever it is at Aughoose? The sites of unknown intervention pits? The proposed outfall pipe?

Unfortunately for me - I live one hop, one skip and one tiny jump from a dangerous, extremely high pressure, unodourised, experimental pipeline which I have my grave doubts is still in place in the bay where it was illegally placed without planning permission, after the storms and weather that both you (supposedly) and I experienced just before the icy conditions set in last week.

What would I give to be just 'in sight distance'? Also, I presume you are so comfortable that the economic mess that this corrupt government has created has no effect on you - bogus resident businesses, hiding of corporate criminals from other continents, Ansbacher deals, the new Dublin aristocracy, brown envelopes, bribery and corruption don't bother you? How fortunate a being you are! :pac:

Iorras55 · 04-12-2010 10:21pm

goat2 wrote: »

ye had one of the best men in government in jerry cowley, remember he looked after the aged and infirm, and this is the thanks he got, he is too good for that kind of treatment from people who dont know better

The people of North Mayo did NOT let Jerry Cowley down. He topped the poll in the local polling station - Pullathomas. It was the people in the south of the county who let him down - presumably because of his Dail duties he was no longer seen in his surgery being filled in for by locums and it was those people who let him down because he spent so much time in Dublin. I can speak only for myself - I know Cowley is a highly intelligent and, as far as we can tell, honest and caring person and he will be getting my No. 1 yet again in the upcoming election!

sligometalhead · 04-12-2010 11:04pm

Duncan31 wrote: »

I would 100% support such a referendum if the deal was not already signed up. Still no doubt we should have that vote and be clear on any future deals being more beneficial to the people.

Why would you have a referendum on nationalising something if you hadnt already given it away? Governments regularly nationalise industries and natural resources and there is nothing bar political will and ideology preventing it from being done in this case too

Still, taking the S2S argument, how would this have any effect on what they call an unsave pipeline?

Refine it at sea as is normal practice

goat2 · 05-12-2010 5:01pm

Iorras55 wrote: »

The people of North Mayo did NOT let Jerry Cowley down. He topped the poll in the local polling station - Pullathomas. It was the people in the south of the county who let him down - presumably because of his Dail duties he was no longer seen in his surgery being filled in for by locums and it was those people who let him down because he spent so much time in Dublin. I can speak only for myself - I know Cowley is a highly intelligent and, as far as we can tell, honest and caring person and he will be getting my No. 1 yet again in the upcoming election!

i am glad to hear that he is appreciated locally, i am only guessing that he is a far better doctor that some of those who filled in for him, he really deserve a position in dail, as he know what life is like for those living in very sparsly populated areas, at least he nailed his colours to the mast as far as shell is concerned, and did not didder and lie, it would be the concern for the aged, infirm and poorer in our society that he really helped and deserve his place, i did not hear anything about others in the dail in that area doing anything for the real people, or is the flynne daughter in that area, have only heard one story on her, that being advising bank customers

Duncan31 · 06-12-2010 1:33am

Birdnuts wrote: »

Sinn Fein unseated the sitting FFailer in the area in the last local election - I suggest you inform yourself of SF's policy on the Corrib Gas before you go on another silly inaccurate rant:rolleyes:

Thats an interesting point about Rose Conway Walsh of Sinn Fein. She ran a strong campaign based on fighting for womens issues and womens rights as this is somewhat connected to her day job where she is a manager in Iorrais le ceile which among other things deals with domestic problems I believe. This is a 100% government funded group and as such she would have gained much popularity from this and has been knocking on the door for some time now.
I personally spoke to her before the election and she most certainly was not pushing the anti shell views of Sinn fein - she was taking a very nuetral stance on it to be honest and I feel this helped in that she didnt lose too many people who support the gas project. Indeed on any radio interview she did before the election, she noticeably backtracked from the Sinn fein policy in regard to this project and if I remember correctly, her election brochures took a pretty middle of the road stance too - dont quote me on that one though as I dont have that material to hand.

Birdnuts · 06-12-2010 1:56am

Duncan31 wrote: »

Thats an interesting point about Rose Conway Walsh of Sinn Fein. She ran a strong campaign based on fighting for womens issues and womens rights as this is somewhat connected to her day job where she is a manager in Iorrais le ceile which among other things deals with domestic problems I believe. This is a 100% government funded group and as such she would have gained much popularity from this and has been knocking on the door for some time now.
I personally spoke to her before the election and she most certainly was not pushing the anti shell views of Sinn fein - she was taking a very nuetral stance on it to be honest and I feel this helped in that she didnt lose too many people who support the gas project. Indeed on any radio interview she did before the election, she noticeably backtracked from the Sinn fein policy in regard to this project and if I remember correctly, her election brochures took a pretty middle of the road stance too - dont quote me on that one though as I dont have that material to hand.

All very nice but this makes for interesting reading:http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8955:councillor-criticises-jailing-of-shell-to-sea-activist&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Duncan31 · 06-12-2010 2:11am

Iorras55 wrote: »

Good, ul be able to afford to buy bottled water in the future then? Carrowmore water is fine - now - tastes great. I have no problem with it - now! With Shell's refinery less than a mile from it, I wonder how long that will last if it got the go-ahead.

What's with the membership of S2S? U assume I am one and have done since you started slagging me off here. I'm not! And, as far as I know, nobody is. S2S has no membership list that I know about. Is Shelltosea all you know about? As someone else said, is the O'Reilly owned Independent or other rags the source of your knowledge? If so, better upgrade? It seems to me that you live in a great deal of oblivious bliss! Hope you always can!

What works are you in sight of? The refinery 10 kms inland? The boreholes in Sruth Fhada Chonn? The storage area at Ballyglass? The proposed LVI at glengad? The sand martin's cliff they destroyed there? The proposed whatever it is at Aughoose? The sites of unknown intervention pits? The proposed outfall pipe?

Unfortunately for me - I live one hop, one skip and one tiny jump from a dangerous, extremely high pressure, unodourised, experimental pipeline which I have my grave doubts is still in place in the bay where it was illegally placed without planning permission, after the storms and weather that both you (supposedly) and I experienced just before the icy conditions set in last week.

What would I give to be just 'in sight distance'? Also, I presume you are so comfortable that the economic mess that this corrupt government has created has no effect on you - bogus resident businesses, hiding of corporate criminals from other continents, Ansbacher deals, the new Dublin aristocracy, brown envelopes, bribery and corruption don't bother you? How fortunate a being you are! :pac:

Bottled water - no thanks. Carrowmore is an excellent treatment facility and you might not be aware of this but the public water supplies meet higher standards that the bottled water companies. Sure some public supplies dont look great colour wise but they are always safe (extreme circumstances excluded). Carrowmore though has an excellent appearance always and is a pretty fresh, sharp tasting water. It is uninformed nonsense to suggest that the standard of drinking water can not be maintained into the future with this plant at full capacity.

When I say S2S, I am referring to Sinn fein, Maura Harrington & brother, Willie Corduff and the rossport 5 4 2, blow ins, hippies, crusties and the handful of genuine locals. I have no idea whether they run a membership system or not but if I know Sinn fein, they will be some form of contribution to the so called struggle from anywhere they can get it.
Indeed, looking in Indymedia (after being requested to do so by a 'S2S' supportor) I remember, all persons joining the camp was required to pay a sum of money, weekly I think. I dont know, maybe this was for the provision of toilets etc but possibly not.

I can see the landfall at glengad, the action between Ballyglass and site & I could actually hear what can only be described as thugs banging and terrorising an old man and wife there who sold a useless peice of land to shell for alot of money. Why make this mans life a misery?

Yes I read the independant - Whats the problem with this?

Why get into crap bout the Government? I will be feeling the effects of the economic situation very strongly, much more than a group of hippies living in a field while on the dole. Oh yes, they hate big business, they hate progress yet they dont hate the free money they get every week while claiming to be available for work.

I guess I am fortunate, I live in a house in the country, have a good car, a reasonable job, am healthy, not overly burdened by false crusades and just go about my business and try to be generally helpful whereever I can.
Yes there is a whole load of crap going down in the country at the minute, its not good and will get worse but as I see it, large multinationals & a skilled people who are willing to work are our only hope of getting out of this.

Birdnuts · 06-12-2010 2:24am

Duncan31 wrote: »

Bottled water - no thanks. Carrowmore is an excellent treatment facility and you might not be aware of this but the public water supplies meet higher standards that the bottled water companies. Sure some public supplies dont look great colour wise but they are always safe (extreme circumstances excluded). Carrowmore though has an excellent appearance always and is a pretty fresh, sharp tasting water. It is uninformed nonsense to suggest that the standard of drinking water can not be maintained into the future with this plant at full capacity.

When I say S2S, I am referring to Sinn fein, Maura Harrington & brother, Willie Corduff and the rossport 5 4 2, blow ins, hippies, crusties and the handful of genuine locals. I have no idea whether they run a membership system or not but if I know Sinn fein, they will be some form of contribution to the so called struggle from anywhere they can get it.
Indeed, looking in Indymedia (after being requested to do so by a 'S2S' supportor) I remember, all persons joining the camp was required to pay a sum of money, weekly I think. I dont know, maybe this was for the provision of toilets etc but possibly not.

I can see the landfall at glengad, the action between Ballyglass and site & I could actually hear what can only be described as thugs banging and terrorising an old man and wife there who sold a useless peice of land to shell for alot of money. Why make this mans life a misery?

Yes I read the independant - Whats the problem with this?

Why get into crap bout the Government? I will be feeling the effects of the economic situation very strongly, much more than a group of hippies living in a field while on the dole. Oh yes, they hate big business, they hate progress yet they dont hate the free money they get every week while claiming to be available for work.

I guess I am fortunate, I live in a house in the country, have a good car, a reasonable job, am healthy, not overly burdened by false crusades and just go about my business and try to be generally helpful whereever I can.
Yes there is a whole load of crap going down in the country at the minute, its not good and will get worse but as I see it, large multinationals & a skilled people who are willing to work are our only hope of getting out of this.

As a regular visitor to Erris(parents in law near Barnatra) I can safely say your observations on Carrowmore lake are laughable. Ongoing problems with aluminium loading, algal blooms etc mean very few drink the stuff from the tap. It has a nasty metallic taste in my experience which has got worse in recent years - I wonder why??. The rest of your post is rather feeble corporate spin given how little Shell have contributed to the irish economy under Bertie, Ray Burkes Corrib gas deal.

PS: As for skilled people - why do Shell employ so few Irish on their offshore drilling rigs around the irish coast??

Duncan31 · 06-12-2010 2:25am

Birdnuts wrote: »

All very nice but this makes for interesting reading:http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8955:councillor-criticises-jailing-of-shell-to-sea-activist&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Thats hardly following the shell to sea party line now is it. Coming from someone who has seen the intimidation and down right thugs in action from sinn fein background in relation to this project, I would call herecomments there very middle of the road -

People need to sit down and talk - fair comment.
People want the project but in a safe and sustainable way - fair comment
Putting members of the community in jail is not the way forward and will not achieve anything in the long or short term - again fair.

This is what you call keeping all sides happy but sitting down to talk is not something you would see willie corrduff & co doing.

The judges comments in that article make interesting reading too. I think he was outraged about random checkpoints being operated by in the area by S2S or their supporters

Birdnuts · 06-12-2010 2:27am

Duncan31 wrote: »

Yes I read the independant - Whats the problem with this?

W.

Ever heard of Tony O'Reilly??:rolleyes:

Birdnuts · 06-12-2010 2:34am

Duncan31 wrote: »

Thats hardly following the shell to sea party line now is it. Coming from someone who has seen the intimidation and down right thugs in action from sinn fein background in relation to this project, I would call herecomments there very middle of the road -

People need to sit down and talk - fair comment.
People want the project but in a safe and sustainable way - fair comment
Putting members of the community in jail is not the way forward and will not achieve anything in the long or short term - again fair.

This is what you call keeping all sides happy but sitting down to talk is not something you would see willie corrduff & co doing.

The judges comments in that article make interesting reading too. I think he was outraged about random checkpoints being operated by in the area by S2S or their supporters

So its Shells way or the highway - As a Shell apologist I wouldn't be going down the "justice" route eitheir given recent ombudsmen recommendations, the level of "politics" in judges appointments in general in this country etc.. plus the fact a judge who is married to an ex-FF minister has jailed a number of local protestors on little more then the word of shell security/gardai makes the "justice" angle even more laughable

The laws an ass when it comes to the gas more like:rolleyes:

Birdnuts · 06-12-2010 2:39am

Duncan31 wrote: »

Coming from someone who has seen the intimidation and down right thugs in action from sinn fein background in relation to this project,

Some of your comments on here would suggest that the first time you heard of Erris/Bellanaboy was from a much discredited Paul Williams documentry

Iorras55 · 06-12-2010 11:48pm

goat2 wrote: »

i am glad to hear that he is appreciated locally, i am only guessing that he is a far better doctor that some of those who filled in for him, he really deserve a position in dail, as he know what life is like for those living in very sparsly populated areas, at least he nailed his colours to the mast as far as shell is concerned, and did not didder and lie, it would be the concern for the aged, infirm and poorer in our society that he really helped and deserve his place, i did not hear anything about others in the dail in that area doing anything for the real people, or is the flynne daughter in that area, have only heard one story on her, that being advising bank customers

Flynn daughter (Bev) hangs out around Castlebar I think. Don't know much about her except she looks about twenty years younger on her election posters then in reality! They don't give her any hope of getting elected again.

Iorras55 · 07-12-2010 12:36am

Duncan31 wrote: »

Thats hardly following the shell to sea party line now is it. but sitting down to talk is not something you would see willie corrduff & co doing.

Poor Willie Corduff! You can't know him at all or you would know that he is nothing to do with S2S. You can get full facts (incl hospital reports) from Brian Barrington BL's report linked below. What pleasure do you get from spitting fire about someone who it is so obvious you know nothing about? If you knew anything about him you wouldn't think of saying those things.

And .....??

I could actually hear what can only be described as thugs banging and terrorising an old man and wife there who sold a useless peice of land to shell for alot of money

.... ur having a laugh???

and another one......?

judge outraged about random checkpoints being operated by in the area by S2S

.....??? you're being ridiculous now..... it doesn't happen..... what were you on?

As you can read (as per the Independent) maybe you could try the following and see how much of what you post is just nonsense - here's the opinion of a BL Brian Barrington in Dublin who was commissioned by Frontline to examine the issues related to the Corrib Gas and wrote an extensive report:

http://politico.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6562:front-line-report-an-awful-reflection-on-policing&catid=190:society&Itemid=882

Full report can be read online here or you can call them and they'll send you one in the post.

http://www.frontlinedefenders.org/files/en/corrib_gas_report.pdf

all persons joining the camp was required to pay a sum of money, weekly I think. I dont know, maybe this was for the provision of toilets etc but possibly not.

You think they can live, eat and pay their bills on fresh air?

a group of hippies living in a field

they live in a house and there are several more houses on offer to them in the area

I am fortunate, I live in a house in the country, have a good car, a reasonable job, am healthy, not overly burdened by false crusades

long may it last!

Why get into crap bout the Government?

don't tell me you think they've done a wonderful job? Read: Shane Ross - Wasters. then The Bankers. Then O'Tooles Ship of Fools and then Enough is Enough - plenty more to read too - I'm sure Careys will get them in for you if they'r sold out. You may be very comfortable now - don't bet on staying that way unless you're very very wealthy indeed when you'll badly need FF to stay in power!

I suppose you believe the rumours that there will be jobs for all in Belmullet if the Corrib Gas Project gets planning permission too??
God, you know so little facts, you're so full of the ol rumours Shell puts out but at least you're asking..... so you deserve answers as best as we can (and 'we' is not S2S - that's another of your ol rumours too). Don't think they'd have the time or the patience to bother with your questions.

Duncan31 · 07-12-2010 1:36am

As I said before, I term everyone with an anti establishment leaning as S2S. Its just a cover all from my side.
I dont know Willie Corduff personally, have never spoke to him but he comes across as very ignorant of the various legal processes being undertaken and appears to be very headstrong. He got that aware before. What did he do with all the cash?
Why you say Im having a laugh about the E Sweeney & wife? He has a large family and the money he got Im sure was spread around and of great benefit to them. Why do you think he is fair game to be terrorised? And I do actually know them and terrorised is the correct term.

The random checkpoints. Excuse me but it was most certainly happening at the height of the protests. It was clearly referred to in castlebar court and condemned as being wholly unexceptable in a civilised country by the judge that day. The judge was NOT the very lenient Mary Devins that S2S seem to have a problem with.

Yes I did think that the hippies could live pretty much freely as Ive heard so much that the locals are running to them with free food continuously such is the support they have in the area. Maybe thats not true after all. What other costs would they have? Surely these saviours of the community would not be required to pay for such things as electricity or rent on the 'houses'? I guess the weekly fee could be for alcohol & drugs.

No, the government are crap but that is a whole other discussion. I have read most of what Shane Ross has ever written - He is quite interesting to be fair.

Oh god you are so local, you can name drop the local paper shop. Just as an interesting experiment, can you name drop the previous owner of that establishment? It would be a number of years ago?

In relation to jobs on the tunnel construction, When it starts, I do beleive there will be some (badly needed) jobs for locals, just as there has been on the terminal build

Birdnuts · 07-12-2010 2:09am

Duncan31 wrote: »

As I said before, I term everyone with an anti establishment leaning as S2S. Its just a cover all from my side.
I dont know Willie Corduff personally, have never spoke to him but he comes across as very ignorant of the various legal processes being undertaken and appears to be very headstrong. He got that aware before. What did he do with all the cash?
Why you say Im having a laugh about the E Sweeney & wife? He has a large family and the money he got Im sure was spread around and of great benefit to them. Why do you think he is fair game to be terrorised? And I do actually know them and terrorised is the correct term.

The random checkpoints. Excuse me but it was most certainly happening at the height of the protests. It was clearly referred to in castlebar court and condemned as being wholly unexceptable in a civilised country by the judge that day. The judge was NOT the very lenient Mary Devins that S2S seem to have a problem with.

Yes I did think that the hippies could live pretty much freely as Ive heard so much that the locals are running to them with free food continuously such is the support they have in the area. Maybe thats not true after all. What other costs would they have? Surely these saviours of the community would not be required to pay for such things as electricity or rent on the 'houses'? I guess the weekly fee could be for alcohol & drugs.

No, the government are crap but that is a whole other discussion. I have read most of what Shane Ross has ever written - He is quite interesting to be fair.

Oh god you are so local, you can name drop the local paper shop. Just as an interesting experiment, can you name drop the previous owner of that establishment? It would be a number of years ago?

In relation to jobs on the tunnel construction, When it starts, I do beleive there will be some (badly needed) jobs for locals, just as there has been on the terminal build

There have been numerous complaints about Shell security filming local people as they go about their daily life - including an well publized incident where young children were filmed getting undressed at a local beach. This is a major concern given the type of facsist thugs Shell/IRMS have employed in the past, that was exposed after the whole "Michael Dwyer" episode.

PS: If you have information on the use of illegal drugs in the area i suggest you take it to the relevant authorities instead of spoofing on here with pathetic cliche' ridden nonsense:rolleyes:

K-9 · 07-12-2010 2:19am

Birdnuts wrote: »

There have been numerous complaints about Shell security filming local people as they go about their daily life - including an well publized incident where young children were filmed getting undressed at a local beach. This is a major concern given the type of facsist thugs Shell/IRMS have employed in the past, that was exposed after the whole "Michael Dwyer" episode.

PS: If you have information on the use of illegal drugs in the area i suggest you take it to the relevant authorities instead of spoofing on here with pathetic cliche' ridden nonsense:rolleyes:

Oh, this is a serious accusation.

Young children getting filmed.

And Michael Dwyer links.

Do you have any evidence for this?

Birdnuts · 07-12-2010 2:55am

K-9 wrote: »

Oh, this is a serious accusation.

Young children getting filmed.

And Michael Dwyer links.

Do you have any evidence for this?

Have been asleep for the past few years!!:rolleyes: - this was widly reported in the local media at the time (2008) while the whole Michael Dwyer episode and what it exposed about a number of ex-Shell security workers was carried by Prime Time investigates as well as other National media, notably the Daily Mail

Birdnuts · 07-12-2010 3:18am

K-9 wrote: »

Oh, this is a serious accusation.

Young children getting filmed.

And Michael Dwyer links.

Do you have any evidence for this?

See page 11 of this excellent report

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afri.ie%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2FThe-Great-Gas-Giveaway_2009.pdf&ei=i5j9TPHUFcGZOu639NQK&usg=AFQjCNFMnXbRE6l0KDQXTUuerT1p7PsZJA

Also a report in the Irish Times from the 17th July 2008 on this but unfortunately its pay view:(

Heres more on the Michael Dwyer episode that exposed the type of people working for Shell security:

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2009/05/31/licensed-to-kill-right-wing-zealots-big-oil-and-the-tattoo-that-hid-an-icon-of-hatred/

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dwyer-linked-with-neonazi--group-claim-1727348.html

Iorras55 · 07-12-2010 10:22am

Why you say Im having a laugh about the E Sweeney & wife? He has a large family and the money he got Im sure was spread around and of great benefit to them.

.... and they enjoy thei home being surrounded by criminal mercenaries thugs?? at all times of the day and night .....I'm afraid their neighbours don't appreciate their 'friends' being brought near the place.... and terrorising the neighbourhood - criminal murderers as Birdnuts has given the link for.

I could actually hear what can only be described as thugs banging and terrorising

You could actually hear thugs banging??? when and where were you? I assume you're trying to blame S2S again far mor likekly to be the thugs desc above that's what the comment referred to and it appears that you're only interesting in spreading vicious and untrue bile to be honest.......... because much of what you're saying is simply untrue. You pretend to be interested and then go back to the rubbish......? what's the point in trying to talk to you rationally??? What goes around comes around.... as I said, long may you live your comfortable lifestyle with not a worry in th world. Fortunate, aren't you? Here, have a read of this and you'll see that you're talking rubbish - your kind of bile has been disproven time and time again till people are fed up disproving it and trying to defend themselves from the lies you're trying t spread. If you can't read it on line, just ring them n they send you a copy free gratis to your door. Brian Barrington BL.http://www.frontlinedefenders.org/node/2527

K-9 · 07-12-2010 11:05am

Birdnuts wrote: »

See page 11 of this excellent report

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afri.ie%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2FThe-Great-Gas-Giveaway_2009.pdf&ei=i5j9TPHUFcGZOu639NQK&usg=AFQjCNFMnXbRE6l0KDQXTUuerT1p7PsZJA

Also a report in the Irish Times from the 17th July 2008 on this but unfortunately its pay view:(

Heres more on the Michael Dwyer episode that exposed the type of people working for Shell security:

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2009/05/31/licensed-to-kill-right-wing-zealots-big-oil-and-the-tattoo-that-hid-an-icon-of-hatred/

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dwyer-linked-with-neonazi--group-claim-1727348.html

Well I was aware of Dwyer, but there isn't any source or quote for the stuff about filming naked children!

It's a bit Facebook paedophile alert to me!

Iorras55 · 07-12-2010 11:43am

K-9 wrote: »

Well I was aware of Dwyer, but there isn't any source or quote for the stuff about filming naked children!

It's a bit Facebook paedophile alert to me!

Here's one link and by a paper whose editor now works as PR for Shell (so it was far from biased agsinst shell) - there are many others if you want to investigate further yourself. http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4499&Itemid=38

and another (less biased)
http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2010/02/rossport-campaigners-vindicated-yet-again/

Birdnuts · 07-12-2010 12:19pm

Iorras55 wrote: »

Here's one link and by a paper whose editor now works as PR for Shell (so it was far from biased agsinst shell) - there are many others if you want to investigate further yourself. http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4499&Itemid=38

and another (less biased)
http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2010/02/rossport-campaigners-vindicated-yet-again/

Excellent work Iorrais - that second link in particular highlights the reality of living with Shell and the shamefull role of the state security apparatus in all this!!

Iorras55 · 08-12-2010 3:13pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

Excellent work Iorrais - that second link in particular highlights the reality of living with Shell and the shamefull role of the state security apparatus in all this!!

People like Duncan really haven't got a clue. The people's house he refers to is surrounded by (Shell employed) IRMS thugs and scoundrels by their own invitation (because they sold their land to Shell without any consideration or thought or discussion with their neighbours) and the 'mercenary army' is then sent in as security and Duncan thinks that the thugs that he can apparently 'hear' shouting and bawling there are S2S?? I hope those people who sold their land to Shell feel safe in the protection of foreign mercenary criminals and foreign thugs because their neighbours for several miles in both directions certainly don't feel safe with those sort of people having been brought into this previously peaceful and crime-free area. IRMS employees drive locals off the roads here in their massive vehicles, they wear black glasses and heavy hoods and clothing to avoid identification, they probably carry guns (as they do elsewhere in the world), they wear hob nailed boots to kick local people who try to go onto their local beach, they photograph local families and set cameras on their houses to intimidate them and the ordinary people and the neighbours of the people whose property they were sent by Shell to protect, live in fear and intimidation every minute of their lives. And, for a bit of fun, they post their heavily edited activities up on YouTube mocking the people in the area. And they do all this from the property of those "old people who sold a useless bit of old land to Shell". Now their neighbours are being intimidated and forced to sell their "useless bits of land to Shell" but they don't wish to as they are an important part of their small farms and their livelihoods. Nice neighbours !!

BTW Birdnuts, have you written to Minister Eamon Ryan about the granting of planning permission for this proposed project- Duncan probably believes the Shell spin that this project already has planning permission (but there is just one day left for the latest one) so the links here may surprise him:-
http://www.corribgaspipeline.ie/
http://www.corribgaspipeline.com/uploads/6336%20Shell%20Marine%20Notices%20A%20WesternPeople%2012x2(1).pdf

The Waltzing Consumer · 08-12-2010 6:20pm

No offense Iorra55 and Birdnuts, but it is pretty obvious to anyone who is not biased that many of the things you are complaining about thuggery, brutality, video recording, mercenary thugs etc., are exactly the same type of things that people complain about when it comes to shell to sea and their supporters.

The only big difference here is that legally, the Gardai and Shell have a right to do so, and they admit they use force, whilst S2S do not have a right to use force or police areas i.e. checkpoints, and S2S always pretend and deny they have done nothing wrong at all.

There seems to be huge indoctrination when it comes to S2S, it is literally scary how similar it is to religious fundamentalism.

To the Gardai and Shell security, it is a job, no ideology, they get paid, thats it. To S2S, it is some type of jihad or crusade.

Iorras55 · 09-12-2010 1:30am

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

No offense Iorra55 and Birdnuts, but it is pretty obvious to anyone who is not biased that many of the things you are complaining about thuggery, brutality, video recording, mercenary thugs etc., are exactly the same type of things that people complain about when it comes to shell to sea and their supporters.

The only big difference here is that legally, the Gardai and Shell have a right to do so, and they admit they use force, whilst S2S do not have a right to use force or police areas i.e. checkpoints, and S2S always pretend and deny they have done nothing wrong at all.

There seems to be huge indoctrination when it comes to S2S, it is literally scary how similar it is to religious fundamentalism.

To the Gardai and Shell security, it is a job, no ideology, they get paid, thats it. To S2S, it is some type of jihad or crusade.

I get your point actually. What I know as Shell to Sea and what you know as Shell to Sea are probably almost like two entirely different things. I have seen on TV the Shell to Sea who have been standing outside the Dail etc... after the budget. I recognise nobody to be honest. To me, these are people like as you describe above. They are not interested in local issues, their issues appear to be virtually entirely with the giveaway of Ireland's natural resources. But S2S have never set up a road block - possibly some of the things you will see in the two films below have been mistaken as road blocks but they are often crowds of locals getting beaten back after Shell has committed yet another atrocity quite often. Watch the film in many cinemas nationwide currently - 'The Pipe' by Risteard O'Domhnaill to see local people and how local issues are part of much larger national issues too.http://www.thepipethefilm.com/main-sect/

This 2009 award winning film documentary called Pipe Down is great viewing too for anybody interested in the issues: www. vimeo.com/8668733

Groups with the giveaway as their only issue sometimes appear in protests on TV and people think they represent the locals - when in reality they represent an idealistic and somewhat different, but related viewpoint. To a large degree the locals don't know most of these people but appreciate their support elsewhere and bringing the issues to national prominence when it is carried out peacefully and without causing unnecessary trouble.

Several who started out as Shell to Sea supporters many years ago, mostly from the west, have now settled permanently in Mayo and 'become as local as the locals themselves'!! Thuggery from anybody claiming to be on behalf of Shell to Sea is viewed very seriously and dealt with appropriately. Locals have more than enough thuggery from IRMS employees to deal with and these are the actual current facts as good as I can describe them to you.

Highly recommend you view the film 'The Pipe' to see the truth. It is film footage over about four years until about a year and a half ago filmed by freelance news reporter. It should not be missed. Then come back here and give your views. Better still, come and visit this magnificent area. Stay at Kilcommon Lodge and McGrath's pub both in Pullathomas .;)

Duncan31 · 09-12-2010 5:56pm

Ah for god sake Iorras. I actually didnt fully understand your first response re the thugs I witnessed. But I see you are actually claiming that these were security personnel that were banging and clawing at the outside of the gate (as if trying to get in). Banging with twigs & anything else they could find. I was over near the landfall site that day and yes they could be clearly heard with the banging on metal etc. I then attempted to drive past sweeneys house on my route home and to be honest, I thought better of it. Now there was no obstruction on the road or anything like that but I really did have a genuine fear that my shiny new car (at the time) would come to some harm. The type of people who were there would view anyone in a car such as mine as the enemy. I therefore turned before i got to them. I did clearly see that it was not the security personnel unless they happened to have locked themselves out of their own compound and maybe all communication systems had failed and the only way they could contact others inside was by banging on the gate. Perhaps that is possible but that wouldnt explain why they would all come to work that day in various forms of hippy dress and carrying a number of 'robbing bastard' type placards as is typical of the S2S campaign.
Maybe its all part of an elaborate setup to make S2S look like terrorists. If so, it has been very successful but genuinely I dont thing S2S needed too much help in that regard.
Yes sure there are all sorts of undesirables employed there in security but from experience of construction sites, this is an unwelcome but common occurance with security firms. I will agree that these private security companies are licenced thugs and there are various connections to be made such as the dwyer case but the ONLY reason for any security presence above that of a gatekeeper is the voilet actions of S2S & others.
I know you wont agree with me. I know you most likely dedicate much of your time to this whereas I prefer to spend my time working & living life but I just gasped here when I realised that you were actually claiming that the people at the gate were security. That was the point that i realised that no matter how obvious something is to normal minded folks, that you guys still wont give in. What chance can there be of a reasonable discussion?

Iorras55 · 09-12-2010 6:45pm

Duncan31 wrote: »

Banging with twigs & anything else they could find. I was over near the landfall site that day and yes they could be clearly heard with the banging on metal etc. I then attempted to drive past sweeneys house on my route home and to be honest, I thought better of it.

And you're telling us that you don't work for them? What would you be doing at the far end of a peninsula whose road goes round in a circle if you were just going home? Why didn't you take your shortest route home and where is home if you are not affected by the project at all. not anywhere close to where you claim you were whenever you were there?

there was no obstruction on the road or anything like that but I really did have a genuine fear that my shiny new car (at the time) would come to some harm. The type of people who were there would view anyone in a car such as mine as the enemy

jealously obviously??:p

Yes sure there are all sorts of undesirables employed there in security but from experience of construction sites, this is an unwelcome but common occurance with security firms. I will agree that these private security companies are licenced thugs and there are various connections to be made such as the dwyer case but the ONLY reason for any security presence above that of a gatekeeper is the voilet actions of S2S & others.

how long ago is this that you're talking about? It sounds to me like the time (summer 2008) that Maura was on hunger strike at that gate on those old people's land that they sold out, where the mercenary security hides behind and the Solitaire was trying to lay the pipeline in the bay. It also sounds to me like you were there adding to the menace to the local people where every nosy tom dick and harry came nosing about and blocked up all the roads and locals could not get to their own houses. I remember it well. The guards tried to clear nosey people who came to gawp away from the area so that local people could get to their houses. Local people were very angry but it was not S2S people. It was every nosy fuker from belmullet and further afield came to see the 'big boat' or maybe Maura on hunger strike! Sad! That's the last time a scene like that was at those gates. And, you are admitting that you were part of that rabble. Shame on you!
You won't know therefore that after the rabble was finally cleared by the Guards, those security stayed, made a hell of a lot of noise for many months, caused great distress by filming locals, by trespassing on their lands, by blocking them on the roads and all the other stuff I have written above plus more. They still put the fear of God up locals every day by their mere presence as they still patrol that small area in black glasses and combat gear.
Why don't you keep your big new shiny car loked up behind the gates of your mansion in the hills far from all disturbance and quit spreading silly and untrue rumours about like confetti?

Better still go and educate yourself. Did you go to see 'The Pipe' when it showed in the Aras Inis Gluaire theatre and had an extra showing last night due to demand - full houses despite the terrible road conditions. This film documentary is showing all over the country currently - unfortunately it only goes up to 2008 and much has happened since then. And there's STILL no planning permission, still no route, still no consent, still nopipeline. Go and read the links people have given above too.

Corrib gas, the truth is out

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