Soccer forum. Re: Economist thread.

copacetic

I'm just throwing my oar in to say I totally agree with a lot of what the Economist has said on this thread. Personally I feel a number of admins and other posters above are trying to stifle debate and seem a bit annoyed that other users think debate is healthy, not something to be avoided.

To echo other posters above I couldn't give a flying feck about Helix, the behaviour appears premeditated and is frankly disgusting. However I am concerned at what appears to be a lack of any consistency in how his banning was handled and the revisionism now that doesn't match up with his posted timeline of temp ban to perma ban.

I'm also concerned at the number of people on this thread posting 'there is more too it' etc etc without actually backing it up. If there is post it, if not shut up. Along with the usual dismissive attitude to posters if that happen to actually post on the soccer forum from various senior people, it all leaves a bit of a sour taste.

Either way the debate we should be having is around better clarity about how we treat off boards activity. I've seen racist comments by boards users on other sites, comments slagging off the admins etc (even if that one was useful!). Is there any kind of framework that users can use to report these things planned?

Dub13

I am also after reading all this thread as a soccer mod you need to be fully aware of everything,350 plus posts mostly through the night you lot are sick.

I would like to agree with Xavi and say the soccer mods have had no input into this whatsoever which is a slight bit disappointing seems as I and I am sure others have had to field some complaints via PM etc.

The one thing I will say is (or would have said earlier,if my opinion was sought) the Admins see this as bullying and attacking a boards member.If this is the case then right from the start it should have been a site ban and not a soccer forum ban as I feel this brings the soccer forum unnecessarily into the front line.

I would also like to dispute the clams that there is bad blood between the soccer mods and the day to day users of the forum,I sometimes think people just wait for a soccer feedback thread so they can post tripe.

copacetic

Dub13 wrote: »

The one thing I will say is (or would have said earlier,if my opinion was sought) the Admins see this all bullying and attacking a boards member.If this is the case then right from the start it should have been a site ban and not a soccer forum ban as I feel this brings the soccer forum unnecessarily into the front line.

A big +1 to this.

mike65

Dub13 some of the mods are more loved than others its fair to say. It would be foolish to pretend otherwise.

The Sweeper

To me, the soccer-forum specific ban was because - I felt anyway - that Helix opportunistically used an off-boards.ie forum where he knew soccer forum users would read it, to take a sledgehammer swipe at a soccer moderator that he dislikes, because he felt secure in the knowledge that all 'the lads' would get the joke, she'd look stupid, he could abuse her and say what he liked, but he wouldn't cop anything for it, ha ha, two fingers to GuanYin.

seamus

mike65 wrote: »

Dub13 some of the mods are more loved than others its fair to say. It would be foolish to pretend otherwise.

If you have some feedback to give Mike, then give it.

Cryptic barbs poked in from the back of the room won't change anything.

Helix

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Helix opportunistically used an off-boards.ie forum where he knew soccer forum users would read it

the post wasnt for the benefit of any soccer forum users

5starpool

seamus wrote: »

If you have some feedback to give Mike, then give it.

Cryptic barbs poked in from the back of the room won't change anything.

There has been plenty of feedback on this point over the last year or so. Granted, a lot of unnecessary crap had to be waded through to get to the feedback, but it was there and nothing ever changed as a result of it.

That is not what this thread is about though.

Time Magazine

Helix wrote: »

the post wasnt for the benefit of any soccer forum users

You can say that again :pac::pac::pac:

mike65

seamus wrote: »

If you have some feedback to give Mike, then give it.

Cryptic barbs poked in from the back of the room won't change anything.

Now thats the sort of Mod reaction that helps no one. Anyone who uses the forum will know that certain Mods are considered more easy going or fair minded than others. Thats simple enough to understand, nothing cryptic there Seamus. And no I'm not going to name my favourite and my least favourite or others inbetween, thats the road to hell on this thread.

seamus

My apologies Mike, having re-read your post, I misunderstood you.

leninbenjamin

Dub13 wrote: »

I am also after reading all this thread as a soccer mod you need to be fully aware of everything,350 plus posts mostly through the night you lot are sick.

I would like to agree with Xavi and say the soccer mods have had no input into this whatsoever which is a slight bit disappointing seems as I and I am sure others have had to field some complaints via PM etc.

as a boards.ie user I find this troubling. If the mods of the forum where a punishment is enacted aren't kept up to date, then i think it raises questions of the reorganisation of the mods and admins.

Dub13 wrote: »

The one thing I will say is (or would have said earlier,if my opinion was sought) the Admins see this all bullying and attacking a boards member.If this is the case then right from the start it should have been a site ban and not a soccer forum ban as I feel this brings the soccer forum unnecessarily into the front line.

i was trying to say similar in posts that were shrugged off. a soccer ban makes no sense in relation to the crime, or indeed in protecting the individual on the end of the abuse.

mike65

re Seamus

Fair enough

The Master

leninbenjamin wrote: »

a soccer ban makes no sense in relation to the crime, or indeed in protecting the individual on the end of the abuse.

This is just what I was about to post.

Helix can still continue to post what he likes about mods he doesn't like
In any other forum on the internet.
Banning him from soccer wont stop that.

Dub13

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

To me, the soccer-forum specific ban was because - I felt anyway - that Helix opportunistically used an off-boards.ie forum where he knew soccer forum users would read it, to take a sledgehammer swipe at a soccer moderator that he dislikes, because he felt secure in the knowledge that all 'the lads' would get the joke, she'd look stupid, he could abuse her and say what he liked, but he wouldn't cop anything for it, ha ha, two fingers to GuanYin.

Were I am coming from on this,The Admins see this as bullying/abuse (which is there call I can not give my opinion on this as this is defiantly a Admin call).A soccer forum ban will not solve this as there are hundreds of other forums on boards were this behaver could continue.

Helix

Dub13 wrote: »

there are hundreds of other forums on boards were this behaver could continue.

but none of this behaviour took place on boards, so therefore something that never started cant continue

seamus

leninbenjamin wrote: »

as a boards.ie user I find this troubling. If the mods of the forum where a punishment is enacted aren't kept up to date, then i think it raises questions of the reorganisation of the mods and admins.

Timing was a factor here, I'll admit, occuring just before a bank holiday weekend for most of us. Had this been brought to our attention last Monday (for e.g.) then the discussion and the subsequent information may have been much faster. I'm not going to make any excuses for that. We're mostly still volunteers and if I want to spend my weekend in the sun rather than mulling over the existential question of a ban from an online soccer forum, then I'm going to do that.
It is worth noting that none of the Soccer mods had any input, aside from the initial complaint.

i was trying to say similar in posts that were shrugged off. a soccer ban makes no sense in relation to the crime, or indeed in protecting the individual on the end of the abuse.

Of course it does. The entire thing relates solely to the soccer forum and stems from the soccer forum. So a ban from the soccer forum both protects the mod from having to deal with that individual in that capacity any more and removes the user's access to the content which precipitated the ban.

Kirnsy

ok so what happens if I call Xavi6 a prick on F365?

or even if I insult a poker mod on a football forum?(do i get banned from poker or football?)

and is it ONLY mods that are protected?

These are important questions IMO.

I agree that what Helix did was nasty. and some of the things said were abusive. However the fact remains it was on another site with minimal connection to boards.

Also agree with the soccer mods about the sly (and not so subtle) digs at soccer.

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

Dub13 some of the mods are more loved than others its fair to say. It would be foolish to pretend otherwise.

But to also say there is bad blood between the mods and the users is also foolish.Somebody suggested earlier in this thread that we the soccer mods are like dictators,IMO this is far from the truth and I feel I need to give my opinion on it as I could not let it slide.

seamus

Kirnsy wrote: »

ok so what happens if I call Xavi6 a prick on F365?

or even if I insult a poker mod on a football forum?(do i get banned from poker or football?)

and is it ONLY mods that are protected?

These are important questions IMO.

I've already answered them. Call a prick a prick. If Xavi is a prick, then call Xavi a prick. The only reason we stomp on personal abuse here at all is to avoid flame wars, not to protect people's feelings.
It's an entirely separate issue to attacking a moderator over their moderation.

Kirnsy

Dub13 wrote: »

But to also say there is bad blood between the mods and the users is also foolish.Somebody suggested earlier in this thread that we the soccer mods are like dictators,IMO this is far from the truth and I feel I need to give my opinion on it as I could not let it slide.

In fairness I used the term 'dictatorial'. I should have said certain mods on soccer seem that way. Its not really a criticism, its just their style of modding and my point was perhaps a more approachable style may be more appropriate for such a volatile and passionate forum.

Dub13

Helix wrote: »

but none of this behaviour took place on boards, so therefore something that never started cant continue

Thats getting into the realm of weather its bullying or not,thats a Admin call.My point been,the Admins it would seem have come to the conclusion it was bullying and I don't see the point of just a ban from Soccer in this case and the said bullying could continue on other parts on boards.

ShooterSF

seamus wrote: »

I've already answered them. Call a prick a prick. If Xavi is a prick, then call Xavi a prick. The only reason we stomp on personal abuse here at all is to avoid flame wars, not to protect people's feelings.
It's an entirely separate issue to attacking a moderator over their moderation.

Surely not? What happened to attack the post etc.

seamus

ShooterSF wrote: »

Surely not? What happened to attack the post etc.

*cry*

He was referring to talk on another site.

A-Trak

What about a certain Cork Posters off site comments on Mods & Admins on another (Cork,) related site?

What, if any, sanction came of that as it seems very similar to Helixs case?

ShooterSF

seamus wrote: »

*cry*

He was referring to talk on another site.

Fair enough, my apolgies.

leninbenjamin

seamus wrote: »

Timing was a factor here, I'll admit, occuring just before a bank holiday weekend for most of us. Had this been brought to our attention last Monday (for e.g.) then the discussion and the subsequent information may have been much faster. I'm not going to make any excuses for that. We're mostly still volunteers and if I want to spend my weekend in the sun rather than mulling over the existential question of a ban from an online soccer forum, then I'm going to do that.
It is worth noting that none of the Soccer mods had any input, aside from the initial complaint.

That's something easily overlooked i guess. i had to work through it...

seamus wrote: »

Of course it does. The entire thing relates solely to the soccer forum and stems from the soccer forum. So a ban from the soccer forum both protects the mod from having to deal with that individual in that capacity any more and removes the user's access to the content which precipitated the ban.

yes/maybe/not really.

perhaps this is just me being defensive of the coumminity i relate to most on boards, but i just don't feel the punishment reflects on the crime.

ok, the context stemmed from the soccer community, but the actions did not. the actions relate solely to that individual in that he went outside the community to post them, thus it's unfair to link them to the community at large. thus shouldn't the punishment relate soley to that individual and not bring the soccer community at large into the dispute (as every ban from a forum is a reflection on that community, intentional or not).

secondly, as he went outside the community in the first place to post them how can a ban solely in the context of that specific community really prevent any reoccurence in future? i can understand the motivations behind GuanYin not having to deal with him, but i don't think it goes anywhere to solving the issue, it seems more of a sweep under the carpet type stance to me if i'm honest (i know this wasn't the intention though).

it seems to me like suspending someone who mitches from school. i can't see the logic.

also, i know community is a strange word to use but my vocabulary is lacking anything more appropriate.

seamus

The Wal wrote: »

What about a certain Cork Posters off site comments on Mods & Admins on another (Cork,) related site?

What, if any, sanction came of that as it seems very similar to Helixs case?

It's actually very different to what we're discussing now.

This thread has gone on too long now and nobody's actually reading any older posts, and I don't blame them.

Believe it or not we don't look at feedback and then post elsewhere saying, "They're so wrong, look at this crap, hold fast compadres!". We're still discussing this issue. I won't be responding in this thread unless there's something material to add.

Sully

Since I left last night, I read from my last post to this point. I really cant help getting the feeling that this was done simply because it was GuanYin. There should be absolutely no reason why Boards.ie Admins/Founders should get involved when someone (a boards.ie user or whatever) is given abuse on another website, regardless if they use the Boards name or not. Its not against the site rules, its not something that was done on this site and you should not and can not police the internet which is effectively what has started since you stepped in and acknowledged GYs silent request. Even the admins are stepping on each others toes trying to explain why they stepped in - there seems to be no clear signal and different reasons given. What happens offsite, stays offsite. End off.

If this was about protecting the site, a request to remove the name would have been fine. It was clear that even a mod from Boards had a few grumbles off site about GY but isnt banned from anywhere. There have been previous cases where the Boards.ie name was brought into the negative spotlight by a former mod and nothing was done. No bans were issued etc. even though it was common knowledge about what was being said. Why then, step in and help out GY?

Btw, I don't think this thread should be brought into a "Whats wrong with GY and the Soccer Forum". That's not going to get us anywhere and is not what this topic is about. It might begin with GY but its a much bigger issue that has deeper consequences that a halt really should be put against.

DeVore

I think Helix was being a dick somewhere he thought was "safe" and then found out that no, we arent just going to sit here and let you throw stones at people who help here. Certainly not abusive vitriolic and personal stones.

Its the equivalent of sticking their tongues out and wiggling their fingers from the "safe" porch.

We're not setting "precedent" because this isnt a court of law. We're not breaking "rules" because we dont have a rulebook. The legalistic argument of "I didnt really write I was only quoting someone else" is a pile of rules-lawyering bollocks and isn't going to wash with me.

It was abusive bullying and no, I don't think we should stand for it. Do you?

DeV.