Soccer forum. Re: Economist thread.

invincibleirish

Why didn't you report the posts to the websites in Question GY? why did you seek punishment here?

tbh

mayordenis wrote: »

- Helix as I'm sure you all know isn't a dickhead, was adhearing to rules (or the lack thereof) of a game/forum elsewhere on the net - what he was doing was legal where he posted it - you can do what you want I of all people know that but you have no remit chasing down people over something they post elsewhere - none, zero, not any essentially.

They don't need a remit, that's the point. They could have banned helix just because they hate DCU and his name reminded them of DCU. And what "remit" would he have to appeal?

None, zero, not any, essentially.

_blank_

Thaedydal wrote: »

Des it has already been pointed out that if they are using the boardsie name in someway and abusing a boards.ie moderator and are using that mods known boards nick/handle then the admins can and will consider taking action.

It was pointed out AFTER the fact.

Now we all know that what we post on third party sites is fair game for anyone to report to Admin and we can be banned for it.

mayordenis

tbh wrote: »

They don't need a remit, that's the point. They could have banned helix just because they hate DCU and his name reminded them of DCU. And what "remit" would he have to appeal?

None, zero, not any, essentially.

I'm not sure what your point is, do the admins not want a fair site that will grow and have a happy community? I believe so.
So when something happens they weren't prepared for there should be a somewhat more cerebral approach than "BAN NAO".

Right if Admins would just say we made this decision because we have no interest in fariness or parity then yes we there would be no point in appealing, but I was of the understanding that they would try and do the right thing.

ShooterSF

tbh wrote: »

They don't need a remit, that's the point. They could have banned helix just because they hate DCU and his name reminded them of DCU. And what "remit" would he have to appeal?

None, zero, not any, essentially.

While that's true and I dont agree that everything has to be thought of in advance it's not exactly the set up for an enjoyable site.
I still think the issue was resolved in the wrong place.

Hobart

GuanYin wrote: »

*sigh*

I didn't complain because Helix just called me some names. Anyone and everyone calls me some names. That isn't a problem for me. Helix and the others have called me names in other fora for some times I'm sure, I don't care about that, if they want to be abusive and call me names behind my back, let them. I don't care.

What I do care about is when people seek me out to abuse me. Helix didn't just post abuse, Helix conceived and generated the most abusive thing he thought he could get away with and then sought an arena where he knew I'd read it and posted in my face, all because I warned two guys about abusing each other in the forum (whether a joke or not, we have precedent (seeing as you like the word) for this)

What I cannot understand is why you brought to the attention of the admins here? Did you also report it on that other forum? If so, what action was taken. If not, why not?

Huge difference between calling someone a name and specifically seeking them out to abuse them.

It's not the same as posting on a blog, it's not the same as commenting in a bar. It's more like deciding in a bar with your friends to head over to another bar to seek someone out to stand on the side of the dancefloor shouting abuse and intimidating them.

I'd agree, but at the same time if I had been sounded out for abuse on that board, in a pub (with a group of boardsies), or in any other social context, I would deal with it in that context and arena, not go running back to another format and ask for action to be taken, irrespective of the motivation behind it, but that's just me.

THAT in my opinion is wrong and that is why I complained.

Had Helix stayed on that forum I linked and said anything he wanted about me, and I had later found out, I wouldn't care or complain. When he starts devising ways to seek me out.... thats when I complain.

I don't understand, nor do I wish to understand how he "seeked you out", it's the ramifications of it that concern me, but like I said I seem to have a bit of a thicker skin than some, even when people bandy about words like bully and harass in my face, I just deal with it there and then, I don't need to get anothers opinion on it.

K-9

Thaedydal wrote: »

Des it has already been pointed out that if they are using the boardsie name in someway and abusing a boards.ie moderator and are using that mods known boards nick/handle then the admins can and will consider taking action.

mayordenis wrote: »

But it wasn't before hand - retrospective disciplinary action is just unworkable.

Well we all know now.

I can see Thaedydals point and those that are making this a "free speech" debate are over reacting IMO. Helix knew exactly what he was doing and thought no consequences would come of it.

Hence, his indignation on the Feedback threads and PM'S. He got caught out!

Still, I think a permaban is tough.

Boston

mayordenis wrote: »

Give it a rest - Thaedydal also. I would say something similar back but then again there's only to people acting in the above manner in neither of them are me.

Its only a bit of banter between me and my mate.

mayordenis

I think we should dispell the myth that Helix is some sort of arch villian, and "knew exactly what hewas doing" - however what he was doing was posting other peoples words on an external site that would be viewed as humorous and non-aggresive by the target audience.

ShooterSF

Thaedydal wrote: »

Des it has already been pointed out that if they are using the boardsie name in someway and abusing a boards.ie moderator and are using that mods known boards nick/handle then the admins can and will consider taking action.

Again, mod or member?

At this point of lap number 65-ish? of this circuit the two burning questions that are sitting with me is the issue was dealt with in the wrong place and are mods actions on boards (not the mod Ref: Seamus earlier who said you can call someone a prick off site) more protected from off site criticism than others.

Boston

mayordenis wrote: »

I think we should dispell the myth that Helix is some sort of arch villian, and "knew exactly what hewas doing" - however what he was doing was posting other peoples words on an external site that would be viewed as humorous and non-aggresive by the target audience.

Was GY not the target audience.

tbh

ShooterSF wrote: »

While that's true and I dont agree that everything has to be thought of in advance it's not exactly the set up for an enjoyable site.
I still think the issue was resolved in the wrong place.

mayordenis wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is, do the admins not want a fair site that will grow and have a happy community? I believe so.
So when something happens they weren't prepared for there should be a somewhat more cerebral approach than "BAN NAO".

Has it not grown? Is there not a reasonably happy community? The site is exactly the same way now that it's always been. You always knew the admins could ban people for any or no reason, right? It's just that in this particular case, you feel their decision is unjust. Of course, the fact that you've had previous with the soccer mods as well might kind of colour your opinion there

Right if Admins would just say we made this decision because we have no interest in fariness or parity then yes we there would be no point in appealing, but I was of the understanding that they would try and do the right thing.

I think they have done the right thing.

If enough people think they are dicks, then all those people will move to another site (there are tons of them, mostly free) and boards will die. If the majority of people agree with the admins or don't care, then nothing will happen. I predict the latter.

Spud83

GuanYin wrote: »

Huge difference between calling someone a name and specifically seeking them out to abuse them.

It's not the same as posting on a blog, it's not the same as commenting in a bar. It's more like deciding in a bar with your friends to head over to another bar to seek someone out to stand on the side of the dancefloor shouting abuse and intimidating them.

THAT in my opinion is wrong and that is why I complained.

Yes but its like you running off to a different bar where you know the bouncers and getting that person barred from that pub instead of the pub where the abuse took place.

mayordenis

Boston wrote: »

Its only a bit of banter between me and my mate.

You know we're on boards, and you are saying I'm acting the cunt, right?
You can see the difference we have here?

And by calling me a cunt I won't appeal (sorry GY this isn't a dig at you appealing, you are not in the wrong to do so, I just believe the admins were in the wrong to not tell you it's to be dealt with elsewhere) to the admins to ban you from the WIT Board.

Sully

tbh wrote: »

Rules only hinder the people who make them, because then they have to stand over them. If there was a rule specifically banning what helix did, he probably would have done it anyway. The only difference is that if the rule existed, the admins could point to it now, rather than just banning him for being a dick on another site.

It seems quite simple to me. The admins made a call. They decided that if someone wants to be a dick on another forum, then the admins can be a dick here. Just like tallaght01 called it. There it is. To trot out the oft-used line, if you don't like it, then stick to the other forum (wherever that is). Remember, there's no onus on the admins to allow anyone use their site, they can decide to ban anyone for any reason.

The admins are sticking up for a respected mod who got treated badly for her actions on this site, on another site. People took against her on that other site - not because of how she acts there, but because of how she acts here.

Seriously, Why are people surprised?

The question was asked "if it were a regular user, would the banning still happen"? All I can say to that is, if the situation occurs where a regular user slags a boardsie off on another forum, then let the abused appeal to the admins here and see what happens.

I've questioned DeV's decisions before, been quite a pain in the ass about it actually, but I agree with him 100% on this one.

Have you read the thread? Nobody is asking for a rule. Nobody is asking for GY to step down. Nobody is really talking about GY as a mod. Anybody who did, was told to stfu. What people are asking is: Is it right for the site admins to remove someone from Boards.ie or a forum on Boards.ie for comments made about others (who are on Boards.ie) on another website with no official connection to Boards.ie at all. People think that's a step to far.

At the end of the day, its the site founders call. They make money through users posting on the site but im sure they would re-think if users felt pissed off enough to step back from the site because of how things go. For that reason, we have this forum where people can post their issues. DeV has said that himself anyway. Are people not allowed question a decision?

And in fairness sully, when it comes to GY, you're not impartial.

Iv kept my personal issues with GY out of this thread. I have defended her where appropriate. My concerns or issues have nothing to do with this thread and I would appreciate you didn't question my posts because of issues I have with her.

invincibleirish

mayordenis wrote: »

I think we should dispell the myth that Helix is some sort of arch villian, and "knew exactly what hewas doing"

Exactly. You'd swear from the sensitive types here that Helix is guilty of abuse, harassment and was plotting to take GY down, he was having a bit of juvenile fun with his mates using puerile language, this is then construed by peeps like Thaedyal as a case for harassment and banning. Get a grip ffs! on the INTERNET people swear and talk **** all the time.

mayordenis

Boston wrote: »

Was GY not the target audience.

Nope I don't believe so - if I was to pen a piece for the Independant about Steven Gerrard he wouldn't be my target audience - he would be the subject matter.

WhiteWashMan

delly wrote: »

This really seems to be a massive difference of opinion on this incident, so I thought i'd post a link to an occurrence that is kinda similar. Only viewable to mods i'm afraid. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52010399

delly, thats a cracker of a thread!

good times.

Boston

mayordenis wrote: »

Nope I don't believe so - if I was to pen a piece for the Independant about Steven Gerrard he wouldn't be my target audience - he would be the subject matter.

Depends, if he was likely to read it. It was highly likely GY would.

mayordenis wrote: »

You know we're on boards, and you are saying I'm acting the cunt, right?
You can see the difference we have here?

And by calling me a cunt I won't appeal (sorry GY this isn't a dig at you appealing, you are not in the wrong to do so, I just believe the admins were in the wrong to not tell you it's to be dealt with elsewhere) to the admins to ban you from the WIT Board.

I didn't call you a C unt. You made that intuitive leap all by yourself.

K-9

mayordenis wrote: »

I think we should dispell the myth that Helix is some sort of arch villian, and "knew exactly what hewas doing" - however what he was doing was posting other peoples words on an external site that would be viewed as humorous and non-aggresive by the target audience.

He wouldn't have been able to post it on Boards, simple as. It was a snide attack with malice, not banter!

Hobart

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

delly, thats a cracker of a thread!

good times.

Indeed, it looks like some people really do forget themselves .

That_Guy

If Helix is banned from the Soccer forum does that mean he can't come to the next soccer beers? Have mods the power to now ban people from pubs?

RE*AC*TOR

Why do people keep using the feminine pronoun with regards to Guan Yin?

That seems to be a particularly stupid joke.

mayordenis

K-9 wrote: »

He wouldn't have been able to post it on Boards, simple as. It was a snide attack with malice, not banter!

But he had no gripe with here over boards, again I know I'm a broken record but there's no other way to phrase this,
what he did was fine by the rules of where he posted it.

From what I can see GY was being kicked from the league and it was normal to have a press release with that type of action - he then used quotes from other members of the league. seems normal enough, jerkish sure, I know some people from boards outside of boards that are jerks that's fine I just wash my hands of them.

ShooterSF

tbh wrote: »

Has it not grown? Is there not a reasonably happy community? The site is exactly the same way now that it's always been. You always knew the admins could ban people for any or no reason, right? It's just that in this particular case, you feel their decision is unjust. Of course, the fact that you've had previous with the soccer mods as well might kind of colour your opinion there




I think they have done the right thing.

If enough people think they are dicks, then all those people will move to another site (there are tons of them, mostly free) and boards will die. If the majority of people agree with the admins or don't care, then nothing will happen. I predict the latter.

Can I assume that even though you qouted me above mayordenis that those comments were directed at him?
If not I can offer some corrections..

mayordenis

That_Guy wrote: »

If Helix is banned from the Soccer forum does that mean he can't come to the next soccer beers? Have mods the power to now ban people from pubs?

Yes the next beers will be heavily modded and if I can make it anyone who looks at me funny will be reported to the admins for an immediate WIT ban.

Time Magazine

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

Why do people keep using the feminine pronoun with regards to Guan Yin?

Probably because of her vagina.

tbh

Sully wrote: »

Have you read the thread? Nobody is asking for a rule.

you are looking for a rule. The rule you're looking for is that the admins can't ban someone on this site for comments they make elsewhere.

ShooterSF wrote: »

Can I assume that even though you qouted me above mayordenis that those comments were directed at him?
If not I can offer some corrections..

yeah, mostly at MD, but you were both making the same initial point - that boards won't survive if this kind of thing continues. no?

K-9

mayordenis wrote: »

But he had no gripe with here over boards, again I know I'm a broken record but there's no other way to phrase this,
what he did was fine by the rules of where he posted it.

Thought it stemmed from her telling the other 2 to stop the verbal sparring on the Boards.ie thread? That was the original issue, No?

RE*AC*TOR

The Economist wrote: »

Probably because of her vagina.

I think you could be in for a Crying Game type of surprise.

Used to be a guy anyway under previous nicks, unless someone else is using the account now...