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Soccer forum. Re: Economist thread.

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    #602
    Spud83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,608 ✭✭✭Spud83


    There have been conficting reasons for the decison to give a perma ban.

    The reason I read it was that Helix was given a temp ban while the admins discussed it, this then became a perma ban after they had discussed it and reached there decision.


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    #603
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Villain wrote: »
    Sweet jesus thats a hard read and I'm still not sure what exactly got him banned, was it just for acting the c*nt?

    If someone attacks a poster or boards.ie on a blog do they get a perm ban now?

    It depends Villain, if you are in with the Admins then you have free reign seemingly to seek out on the internet anyone from here who may have hurt your feelings by using naughty words and get them permabanned.

    The lack of clarity from the powers that be and the way in which they have conducted this whole charade is disturbing to say the least.


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    #604
    mayordenis
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    alanmurphy83 wrote: »
    There have been conficting reasons for the decison to give a perma ban.

    The reason I read it was that Helix was given a temp ban while the admins discussed it, this then became a perma ban after they had discussed it and reached there decision.

    Not how most of us see it I think, apparently it was as much to do with his cavalier attitude after the temp ban.


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    #605
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    DSB wrote: »
    Why exactly? Have you read the press release? Its hardly character destroying stuff to be honest. He took a dig at her no doubt, but if he doesn't like her why should he show remorse for taking a dig that really wasn't that bad. People say bitchy things at people they don't like all the time.


    he shouldn't, if he thinks it was fair, and good on him for sticking to his guns. However, as said before, the admins can ban who they like, when they like, how, exactly, are they under obligation to let him post if they don't want to?

    You see, your argument isn't about whether they can do it or not, it's about whether they should. Whether their actions were fair and justified or not. At the end of the day, they don't have to justify themselves.

    I'm not saying this in a "circle round boards" way, but let's call a spade a spade here. Nobody here, as a poster, can demand jack. That's the way it is, and it's the way it always will be.

    Why is being banned - or leaving boards forever in an act of protest - such a big deal? Cause the community here is great. And if you want to take advantage of that, then you have to accept certain facts. One of those facts is that if the admins don't want you there, there is sweet fa you can do about it. Simple.


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    #606
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    It depends Villain, if you are in with the Admins then you have free reign seemingly to seek out on the internet anyone from here who may have hurt your feelings by using naughty words and MAYget them permabanned.
    .

    Now sir! you have it almost exactly right. So what are you going to do about it?


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    #607
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    DSB wrote: »
    No, you didn't say they can do it, you said they do it, theres a massive difference. This debate certainly isn't about whether they can do it, its about whether they are willing to do it, and I think if it was as clear cut they do as you made out, then half the people posting wouldn't even bother.

    You're missing what I was saying. The owners allow you the privalege of using their site. If they don't like you, they don't have to let you use it. Just like if it was their home, they don't have to let you in. That's why the original analogy TBH gave in #576 fits perfectly.


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    #608
    DSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭DSB


    tbh wrote: »
    he shouldn't, if he thinks it was fair, and good on him for sticking to his guns. However, as said before, the admins can ban who they like, when they like, how, exactly, are they under obligation to let him post if they don't want to?

    You see, your argument isn't about whether they can do it or not, it's about whether they should. Whether their actions were fair and justified or not. At the end of the day, they don't have to justify themselves.

    I'm not saying this in a "circle round boards" way, but let's call a spade a spade here. Nobody here, as a poster, can demand jack. That's the way it is, and it's the way it always will be.

    Why is being banned - or leaving boards forever in an act of protest - such a big deal? Cause the community here is great. And if you want to take advantage of that, then you have to accept certain facts. One of those facts is that if the admins don't want you there, there is sweet fa you can do about it. Simple.

    They definitely have to justify themselves, thats why there are rules, and not an ethos of 'we'll judge it by the case' (not saying that each case isn't viewed individually aswell but you get my point). Boards.ie became successful for a reason.


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    #609
    DSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭DSB


    humanji wrote: »
    You're missing what I was saying. The owners allow you the privalege of using their site. If they don't like you, they don't have to let you use it. Just like if it was their home, they don't have to let you in. That's why the original analogy TBH gave in #576 fits perfectly.

    If this is the belief of the admins, they should specify it to be the case. If not, you're speaking for them, and talking pure rubbish. This forum is open to anyone, who is willing to act within the rules and that has always been the case.


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    #610
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    DSB wrote: »
    They definitely have to justify themselves, thats why there are rules,
    OK, so now explain that one to me. You say there was no rule to say that he should have been banned, so show me the rule that says the admins have to justify themselves. And to whom, exactly?

    This is mad, lads. You're partaking in a PRIVATE SITE. Boards owes you nothing, just as you owe boards nothing.
    . Boards.ie became successful for a reason.
    that's right, it did. I believe the reason is the admins.


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    #611
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    tbh wrote: »
    Now sir! you have it almost exactly right. So what are you going to do about it?

    tbh you fatalist we know all too well everything here is at the discretion of the owners but they can't even spell out a decent counter argument. Not for the first time some might say.


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    #612
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    tbh you fatalist we know all too well everything here is at the discretion of the owners but they can't even spell out a decent counter argument. Not for the first time some might say.

    and yet here you are, six years later.


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    #613
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Actually, you guys need to sit down and re-think this whole issue. You are definitely overlooking some possible legal issues with your current stance.

    FWIW if I were an Admin I would immediately move to protect the Boards.ie name. You guys are really making a mess of this.

    Lol, go swivel on it
    tbh wrote: »
    how about this one. I have regular parties at my house, and loads of people are invited. I ask a mate to stick in a room and make sure people don't put their fags out on the floor. One day, we go to a party in someone elses house, and while there, I see someone abusing my mate for telling him not to put his fag out on my carpet. This guy - whom I hardly know - starts dancing around, telling my mate that everyone thinks he's a dickhead.

    now, two weeks later, I see this guy at the door of my house, walking in like nothings happened.

    What would you do?

    That pretty much sums it up.


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    #614
    mayordenis
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    Boston wrote: »
    That pretty much sums it up.

    It sure does at least we agree it's just protecting your own and in housing.


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    #615
    DSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭DSB


    tbh wrote: »
    OK, so now explain that one to me. You say there was no rule to say that he should have been banned, so show me the rule that says the admins have to justify themselves. And to whom, exactly?

    This is mad, lads. You're partaking in a PRIVATE SITE. Boards owes you nothing, just as you owe boards nothing.

    Why can't you understand that these are YOUR beliefs, not those of the admins, and stop expressing them as such? If the admins want to come out and say something similar, they probably would have already, but if they want to, they will. Until they do, I think its fair to say, that what you're saying is pure rubbish, and they put rules in place, because they believe they have a responsibility to be fair, and by and large they do a very good job of that.


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    #616
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    tbh wrote: »
    OK, so now explain that one to me. You say there was no rule to say that he should have been banned, so show me the rule that says the admins have to justify themselves. And to whom, exactly?

    This is mad, lads. You're partaking in a PRIVATE SITE. Boards owes you nothing, just as you owe boards nothing.

    I know it's a private site but the admins rarely play that card outside of the freedom of speech thing. And they pretty much never give an undeserved ban or ban on a whim.

    So yeah sure of course nobody can demand justification of any action from them but that's not in the spirit of the site.

    But why has this question even come up? The admins have been fairly vocal on this thread explaining the decision (justifying if you like). Sure the messages have been mixed and a little unclear but that's just because their discussion is still ongoing. And if fairness The Economist and others including myself were pushin' for discussion sooner rather than later so we can't fault them for that.


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    #617
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    tbh wrote: »
    and yet here you are, six years later.

    Its like smoking when you have lung cancer


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    #618
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Boston wrote: »
    Lol, go swivel on it

    See, if this was on another site I wouldn't be able to report it to a boards authority but since it's here...


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    #619
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    DSB wrote: »
    If this is the belief of the admins, they should specify it to be the case. If not, you're speaking for them, and talking pure rubbish. This forum is open to anyone, who is willing to act within the rules and that has always been the case.
    Are you serious? It's their site. They can do with it as they please. As has been seen by this very incident. Did you not read the email you got when you signed up?


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    #620
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    DSB wrote: »
    Why exactly? Have you read the press release? Its hardly character destroying stuff to be honest. He took a dig at her no doubt, but if he doesn't like her why should he show remorse for taking a dig that really wasn't that bad. People say bitchy things at people they don't like all the time.

    I think your mis reading my post.

    his ban and the reason is outrageous.

    not the press release.

    the press release was hilarious imo


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    #621
    DSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭DSB


    humanji wrote: »
    Are you serious? It's their site. They can do with it as they please. As has been seen by this very incident. Did you not read the email you got when you signed up?

    I'll sum it up pretty simply, if the admins didn't feel they had a responsibility to the posters, there wouldn't be a feedback forum.


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    #622
    DSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭DSB


    ntlbell wrote: »
    I think your mis reading my post.

    his ban and the reason is outrageous.

    not the press release.

    the press release was hilarious imo

    I am indeed, apologies.


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    #623
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    DSB wrote: »
    Why can't you understand that these are YOUR beliefs, not those of the admins, and stop expressing them as such? If the admins want to come out and say something similar, they probably would have already, but if they want to, they will. Until they do, I think its fair to say, that what you're saying is pure rubbish, and they put rules in place, because they believe they have a responsibility to be fair, and by and large they do a very good job of that.

    ok, have a look at these statements, and tell me whether they are facts or beliefs.

    1. This is a privately owned site.

    2. The admins can ban whoever they like, whenever they like.

    3. If the admins don't want to comment on an issue, there is nothing obligating them to

    4. If you don't like it, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it.

    The only belief I have stated in ANY of my posts is that I think their action was fair. But then, it's completely irrelevant because facts > beliefs.


    Edit: essentially what you are saying is that once the admins- who own the site, remember, implement a rule, they cannot over-rule it themselves, and they can ONLY take action against someone if they break a rule which is written down somewhere.

    DO you not see how laughable that is?


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    #624
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    mayordenis wrote: »
    It sure does at least we agree it's just protecting your own and in housing.

    Well yes. Does anyone really think we would be here if it hadn't been a mod who was attacked? Then again, they probably wouldn't have acted like took muppets towards a non-mod.


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    #625
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    tbh wrote: »
    he shouldn't, if he thinks it was fair, and good on him for sticking to his guns. However, as said before, the admins can ban who they like, when they like, how, exactly, are they under obligation to let him post if they don't want to?

    You see, your argument isn't about whether they can do it or not, it's about whether they should. Whether their actions were fair and justified or not. At the end of the day, they don't have to justify themselves.

    I'm not saying this in a "circle round boards" way, but let's call a spade a spade here. Nobody here, as a poster, can demand jack. That's the way it is, and it's the way it always will be.

    Why is being banned - or leaving boards forever in an act of protest - such a big deal? Cause the community here is great. And if you want to take advantage of that, then you have to accept certain facts. One of those facts is that if the admins don't want you there, there is sweet fa you can do about it. Simple.

    I don't particularly want to get into a big who owns what debate.

    Right posting on boards is not a right, right it's a bunch of servers sitting in regi's office and they can pretty much do what they damn well please.

    but it's really irrelvant what makes boards the place it is it's users and regular contributors which compared to amount of daily impressions + morons leaves a very small percentage who actually contribute something

    that's you and everyone else that adds some value

    when one or a number of these people started to be banned willy nilly and what looks to be for no reason at all bar a friend of the admin was pee'd off about something else that happened on another site is damn well rediclous and having met Devore, regi at all on occasion I know well they're not stupid or egotistical enough to think they're bigger than boards, they're not so lets cut out all this nonsense about them owning boards and what they say goes

    boards is nothing without the community and devore et all oue to that community to explain they're actions

    they don't HAVE to but they're bright enough guys to not assume they don't have to

    now less of the rediclous pedantic's tbh.


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    #626
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    OK - enough for now, as this is just going into a spiral.

    It's been made blatently clear that we're still deliberating - and we are. We're not going to stand for what happened, and we're not keen on how the person involved behaved. We know you all don't nessecarily agree with that, but that is our general consensus (after much, varied debate). The action we will take regarding this, however has yet to be finalised.

    The ban from soccer is permanent until we come to a consensus within the admin team about what we want to do. When we have decided upon that, we'll communicate it to the user involved.

    Now - the bigger issues here: we've also got a lot of debate about what we should do with regard to the boards.ie name being tagged to external events/sites/leagues etc. That's a good thing that's come out of this, as it gives us a chance to consider how we want these things to play out in the future.

    Precedent - we've already been fairly clear regarding how we don't see this as a precedent. We'll take each complaint on an individual basis, and the circumstances surrounding it will obviously effect the outcome. We realise not everyone will be happy/convinced/cart-wheeling about that fact, but this isn't something we forsee becoming policy, or regular occurance. Just a particular set of circumstances which came together to result in a unique sanction. We're not fond of the "cookie cutter" approach as a whole, and don't think we ever will be.

    You guys: We can't *make* you be "happy" - like most things on boards.ie over the years, something happen that some people love, some people hate and that's part of the fabric of the site. However, it's not like the views on this thread have been falling on deaf ears. We've been discussing a lot of them, and will be discussing them further over the next while. We won't nessecarily agree with them, but we're not going to magically make things disappear. Likewise we're not going to magically pull a one-size-fits-all solution out of that hat either.

    So the bigger question - when will you know what we decide? The answer to that is simple: as soon as we know. And no, we don't have a timeframe.


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    #627
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    We are still discussing this quite actively.

    DeV.


This discussion has been closed.
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