Soccer forum. Re: Economist thread.

KevIRL

Hmmmm I dont know if the Admins intend on leaving this thread open or not, but I do believe there should be a discussion around the possible implications of the precedent being set here of bans being issues for something posted/said off the boards.ie site. Also as the league Admin of the X11 game in question I should probably contribute, and perhaps give some context to the game.

I have played in a number of diff x11 leagues, all similar to the one here, they spring up from a forum, the game itself is unbeliveably simplistic, taking about 5 mins a week to play and is essentially a time killer in work. Essentially you manage a made up team in a make believe universe, on all the other forums ive played this, the players have good banter on both the thread on the forum and in the press releases. In fact this banter/slagging etc is the best part of the game as 'winning' means very little.

Helix was appointed as co-admin of the league (along with Wardies) shortly after the league was created, as both these users had already adminstered leagues, so I thought they could help me, as it turns out co-admin means you can do nothing apart from issue offical press releases.

Following a decision on the soccer forum to restrict some fantastic banter between 2 managers, some members of the boards X11 league posted their dissatisfaction with the decision on a diff board, they are not boards members however. Helix put together a press release using their quotes and with his co-admin status made himself as an 'FA member' in the release. Bearing in mind some of the press releases I've seen on the different x11 leagues I'm in, I thought it was extremely funny. I can understand that GY was unhappy, but maybe a PM to myself could have sorted something out, or help explain context. I dunno, the automatic ban seemed harsh.

Also the ban for something said on a different site, referencing things said on a different site again, seems to be setting a dangerous precedent, as the Economist wrote in his thread. I'm not sure that its such a good idea for Boards.ie to start banning people for things said off the site. Where do we draw the line. Perhaps this is something for a different thread, but I do feel its a discussion thats needed.

Finally, I dont think that attacking Guan Yin on this thread as some have done above is going to help matters at all.

Jonathan

GuanYin wrote: »

I didn't make the decision to ban Helix, the Admins made the call.

I'm confused.

What admin browses the xpert11 forum looking for people badmouthing b.ie mods?

Or did you report him and let the admins deal with it?

Dudess

Wow, I'm actually shocked at the unfairness of this - and it's not the only such unfair Feedback-type thread of late. What's worse is, some people who usually come across as really decent and whom I've always had huge respect for, have played a role in them.

Helix being at such pains to explain how he did not make those comments himself and being battered down by others in his attempts... it actually makes for quite grim reading. Looks a bit too much like bullying to me.

Cries of "Certain mods all stick together and gang up on people - whinge whinge whinge" usually irk me, but given this thread and its ilk, I'd understand even the most reasonable member coming to such a conclusion...

Although in fairness, leave GuanYin out of it - she didn't make the decision.

mayordenis

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

it was a cheap shot.

in what sense?

If Mourinho goes off on another one and calls Wenger a Voyeur and I report it am I to blame? no.
Like you said- don't shoot the messenger.

WhiteWashMan

DSB wrote: »

Well I'm no mod, but since this is feedback, and you're a mod, I'd like to make it known that I'd consider telling someone they're being a dikc to be personal abuse, and that if a normal poster said it to a mod they'd be crucified and have you in here calling them cowards etc.

oh no, i said it was called being a dick.
i didnt say he was a dick.

its a bit different, like saying, for example someone else said he was a dick. thats ok then, right?

but either way, the fact of the matter is that you are now deflecting off on a another matter. if you feel i am being abuseive, feel free to report the post. personally i think its in context, and is not directed. but hey, thats for you to spend time on, not me. as i said, if your rguments now consist of accusing me of being abusive, you are deflecting away from the topic,and youve got nothing left to say.

invincibleirish

If Helix' crime was so egregious and offensive then surely he should be just banned off boards? seems rather convenient that he just gets a ban from the soccer forum for having banter on another board, or have i missed a trick and is Electric Picnics forums also covered by the terms & conditions you sign up to when you sign on boards?

orestes

The soccer forum is more damn trouble than it's worth, the users have proven time and time again they can't be civil (even after the access requests system was brought in cos the place was a hell hole) and the mods constantly get more shit than any volunteer should have to deal with. Just delete the place, it's beyond salvation

AlmightyCushion

Dudess wrote: »

Wow, I'm actually shocked at the unfairness of this - and it's not the only such unfair Feedback-type thread of late. What's worse is, some people who usually come across as really decent and whom I've always had huge respect for, have played a role in them.

Helix being at such pains to explain how he did not make those comments himself and being battered down by others in his attempts... it actually makes for quite grim reading. Looks a bit too much like bullying to me.

Cries of "All the mods stick together and gang up on people - whinge whinge whinge" usually irk me, but given this thread and its ilk, I'd understand even the most reasonable member coming to such a conclusion...

No offence intended here but have you actually read the thread. Quite a few mods are disagreeing with the ban.

Captain Darling

This whole thing is an awful ball of shite.

Helix

orestes wrote: »

The soccer forum is more damn trouble than it's worth, the users have proven time and time again they can't be civil (even after the access requests system was brought in cos the place was a hell hole) and the mods constantly get more shit than any volunteer should have to deal with. Just delete the place, it's beyond salvation

yeah but this has nothing to do with anything that happened on the soccer forum

thats the point

DmanDmythDledge

Jonathan wrote: »

I'm confused.

What admin browses the xpert11 forum looking for people badmouthing b.ie mods?

Or did you report him and let the admins deal with it?

The soccer forum mod, GuanYin, is a member of the boards.ie league on X11.

RE: the issue at hand.

I can not speak for Helix but as a user of X11 I know what the game is like. In all league people post abusive PRs but it is all in good humour and purely to create banter in the league. I don't know the ins and outs of what happened before this so don't know if Helix meant anything sinister with what he wrote but it could be likely that it was purely banter.

DSB

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

oh no, i said it was called being a dick.
i didnt say he was a dick.

its a bit different, like saying, for example someone else said he was a dick. thats ok then, right?

but either way, the fact of the matter is that you are now deflecting off on a another matter. if you feel i am being abuseive, feel free to report the post. personally i think its in context, and is not directed. but hey, thats for you to spend time on, not me. as i said, if your rguments now consist of accusing me of being abusive, you are deflecting away from the topic,and youve got nothing left to say.

What? Well you're right that I've made my point already, but I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions on it, and hopefully reply to those, giving my input. And saying someone is being a dick is definitely abuse, and I don't think me reporting a post made in feedback is really the done thing is it? I don't want anyone else getting banned over this situation, my point was just that your boundaries of what constitute abuse seem a little skewed. I'm addressing that to you as a mod, as opposed to a poster by the way, if I'm not allowed do that in here, apologies.

DSB

orestes wrote: »

The soccer forum is more damn trouble than it's worth, the users have proven time and time again they can't be civil (even after the access requests system was brought in cos the place was a hell hole) and the mods constantly get more shit than any volunteer should have to deal with. Just delete the place, it's beyond salvation

From my experience of it, you're not exactly a regular poster, I don't think you're an admin either so eh..............why do you care if its there or not? It has no impact on you.

Theresalwaysone

orestes wrote: »

The soccer forum is more damn trouble than it's worth, the users have proven time and time again they can't be civil (even after the access requests system was brought in cos the place was a hell hole) and the mods constantly get more shit than any volunteer should have to deal with. Just delete the place, it's beyond salvation

No. This is ridiculous. Do not delete it.

A lot of the core posters are very good. Heck, Mr.Alan and Boggles are even good banter and as much as they disagree both of them put across good arguments.

The nature of football and sport as a whole means emotions will be involved. COMMON SENSE, not overbearing moderation will go a long way to solving this.

I used Mr Alan and Boggles to show how polar opposites with die hard club support can both get on and have reasonable discussion. Obviously there will be emotional responses to certain topics but by and large, it can work.

Time Magazine

Meh, this seems to be a bit of a catchall thread at this stage, so here's the feedback I have regarding the grander scheme of things:

1. If, as it has been suggested to me, that the initial thread was locked because "it looked like one of Helix's mates trying to fight his cause" then, tbh, that's a load of shit. I've been on this site for well over eight years in total and whenever I've fought the power I've done so in an honest fashion. If you treat my contributions at anything other than face value then you're really not taking feedback in the appropriate spirit. If I go out of my way to explain in a thread that this is not a case of me sticking up for a mate (I've only met Helix once and not once did I suggest he should/should not be banned) then I should not have to re-iterate that to two admins before getting to debate the point.
2. On Friday night I was told by an admin that I indeed had a reasonable point that should be debated in public, but that I should leave things lie until Monday before debating them. The primary argument for this, I am told, is so that rash decisions aren't made and admins can get their heads around issues before commenting on them.
   
   That's a fair point, but it leaves you open to biased decision making. Not for a second do I believe there's an admin conspiracy. Ye're a diverse, opinionated bunch. But if you're afraid of saying something before you've confirmed your opinions, you're missing the point. The entire point of Feedback is to change admins' minds. As intelligent and well-intentioned you are, you're not perfect and you never will be. Collectively, you will still make mistakes. You are less likely to make mistakes if you listen to feedback before reaching a decision. Shutting discussion up while you copper-fasten your answers is not the govern.
3. I understand the point about anything with the Boards name being considered fair game. What about if there are no such connections? Would I get banned from here for setting up a forum called stargalsucks.com that simply had the line "I think stargal on boards.ie is a bloody crap mod"? (Using stargal as an example because she's my friend.) I think that's a load of crap. People should get banned from Boards for abuse, but among other things once you ban them they are free to continue posting up crap on stargalsucks.com.
4. I would make an exception if anyone were to threaten violence or post private information about a moderator. That's just creepy. But abuse I don't consider so exceptional.
5. The furore of this thread will most likely produce more heat than light as people have now been banned for discussing it even though discussion had been shut down. But had strictly civil discussion been permitted initially, things may have been different. If this thread goes down the tubes, it doesn't sing your approach's praises.
6. Yes, I included a paragraph in one of my numbered points. Yes, it does look weird.

orestes

Helix wrote: »

yeah but this has nothing to do with anything that happened on the soccer forum

thats the point

The boards.ie name was used for a soccer league and a soccer mod was abused. I think it does have to do with boards and the soccer forum, and the users who abused a mod on another site, whether it was directly or by saying "this is what someone else said", are cowards and bullies who got what they deseerved imo

Dudess

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

No offence intended here but have you actually read the thread. Quite a few mods are disagreeing with the ban.

Yeah I have, and you're right - that should have read as "certain mods stick together and gang up on people".

leninbenjamin

if it's a case of soiling the boards.ie name on other sites, surely then it should be a site ban?

Helix did nothing to warrant a ban from soccer. he did not break any rules of the soccer forum.

Now, that's not absolving him entirely, as the FA would say, in this case he brings the site into disrepute with his remarks. That's a different issue entirely, and i could potentially see rationale behind some kind of action or punishment with respect to the site as a whole.

but a ban from the soccer forum is not what the crime warranted and sets a really really really bad precedent.

Frankly, it's downright unprofessional and seems petty.

Bounty Hunter

ive seen very little support for the bans or precident being set so far

Gary ITR

GuanYin wrote: »

http://forum.electricpicnic.ie/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=327&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=5760

Most of the guys that post on there are small dicked wank3rs who need to grow up and take responsibility for what they said. Quoting boards and singling out boards members and abusing them in that way is such a cowardly act

Quite obvious the press release was put together to create a sh1tstorm. Congratulations to you looks like you got what you want. Cowards

everdead.ie

I would really think that if you have any concerns you should pm the admins otherwise your only really speculating and nothing good ever really comes from that.
IMO if your using the boards.ie name outside this site then it is still there duristiction if it's totally unrelated it's not simple as.

AlmightyCushion

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah I have, and you're right - that should have read as "certain mods stick together and gang up on people".

Ah right.

invincibleirish

orestes wrote: »

The boards.ie name was used for a soccer league and a soccer mod was abused. I think it does have to do with boards and the soccer forum, and the users who abused a mod on another site, whether it was directly or by saying "this is what someone else said", are cowards and bullies who got what they deseerved imo

You see abuse i see banter, the boards.ie name and the perceived authority that comes with being a mod on this website does not extend to anywhere else but here.

Unless you feel its fair game that any opinion you express across the internet should come under review from mods on this site?.

mayordenis

everdead.ie wrote: »

I would really think that if you have any concerns you should pm the admins otherwise your only really speculating and nothing good ever really comes from that.
IMO if your using the boards.ie name outside this site then it is still there duristiction if it's totally unrelated it's not simple as.

It would be one thing if this was something that Boards.ie stood over ie. an Admin said this was an official league that boards are running etc. but it isn't.

orestes

invincibleirish wrote: »

You see abuse i see banter

I see abuse wrapped in lawyer rhetoric and cowardice

redout

Is Boards turning into China, North Korea, Iran ?

invincibleirish

orestes wrote: »

I see abuse wrapped in lawyer rhetoric and cowardice

You see what you want to see my friend.

orestes

invincibleirish wrote: »

You see what you want to see my friend.

And you don't see what you don't want to sir

WhiteWashMan

DSB wrote: »

What? Well you're right that I've made my point already, but I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions on it, and hopefully reply to those, giving my input. And saying someone is being a dick is definitely abuse, and I don't think me reporting a post made in feedback is really the done thing is it? I don't want anyone else getting banned over this situation, my point was just that your boundaries of what constitute abuse seem a little skewed. I'm addressing that to you as a mod, as opposed to a poster by the way, if I'm not allowed do that in here, apologies.

you can address it to me as anything you want, but being a mod has little to do with my opinions, so i am a little bit confused why you feel its an issue.

i dont think anyone is going to get banned for discussing the topic at hand, so i wouldnt let that worry you too much.

and i take on board your worry of my skewed boundaries. i'll be more careful in future that people read what i say and not what they want to read.

mike65

orestes, shall I get the ladder so you can mount your horse?