Soccer forum. Re: Economist thread.

My name is URL

I'm still relatively new here and I won't refrain from saying that I've seen people who've been banned/infarcted make threads about it in Feedback only to have a gang of mods agree with each other for what can only be described as mive-hind.

It's one of the most sickening things in online civility imo, worse than trolling

This whole issue is important for more reason than just someone being banned for conveying their thoughts on another site... it'll cause Mods to question each other and hopefully lead to a diplomatic outcome which will be precedent for future issues

Time Magazine

redout wrote: »

Is Boards turning into China, North Korea, Iran ?

I think DeV is hoping to go for the Bush America vibe. Silencing critics, declaring jurisdiction over other territories and still getting mega-rich in the background.

hullaballoo

The Economist wrote: »

I for one am still waiting...

I think this should be left open because (a) I think people's feedback is necessary for the continuity of the site; (b) I want people to understand the rationale behind this particular decision and; (c) there's a serious underlying issue that needs to be addressed.

On the other hand, I know from my experience that this is going to turn into a witch hunt and that's the long and the short of it. So, ground rules:


1. Very strictly: NO PERSONAL ABUSE against ANYONE.

2. TRY and keep an open mind in terms of what's being said against your argument. No tireless rebuttals, no resorting to irrelevant arguments.




Finally, try and bear in mind that this isn't a precedent. We (boards.ie members) own this site. Perhaps not the financial aspects, but we control the site. Moderators are typically here to make the site more enjoyable and as such, we have a broad discretion in terms of decisions.

GY has been the subject of a great deal of criticism (from a small few members). What's happened here is that a member has been subjected to abuse akin to bullying from other members in the context of their role as a volunteer helper on the site. It's been cumulative in nature and it's a case of protecting our members in the only way we can from unfair attacks. No, we can't police the Internet. Yes, we can police boards.ie. If a member on this site is using a boards.ie spin-off (here, the boards.ie xperteleven league) for abusing other members, then why not ban them from the originating forum (here, the Soccer forum)?


There's no favouritism for Mods. If it was for e.g., Helix, complaining about being subjected to personal attacks from, say, PHB (I know, I lolled too - as if, like) on boards.ie that had migrated over to another boards.ie spin-off, say, the boards.ie stock exchange league on bullbearings.co.uk. PHB might well expect that the behaviour, which involves two of our members, involved in abuse/a dispute originating from boards.ie, to earn him a ban from, say, the Investments and Markets forum (from whence the bullbearings.co.uk league originates). It is also important that the two boards.ie members are members of the same off-site spin-off league.

However, it's a VERY peculiar set of circumstances in this case and is unlikely to crop up again. Thus, it's not necessarily a precedent. We don't do precedents anyway because we're not bound by a previous decision. Even if we were, it's such an unusual and rare set of circumstances that I don't see it arising again until boards.ie actually do own the Internet.



/ducks for cover.

DSB

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

you can address it to me as anything you want, but being a mod has little to do with my opinions, so i am a little bit confused why you feel its an issue.

i dont think anyone is going to get banned for discussing the topic at hand, so i wouldnt let that worry you too much.

and i take on board your worry of my skewed boundaries. i'll be more careful in future that people read what i say and not what they want to read.

Go back and look at my original post, there are a fair few people who agree with me, and I'm not saying that in a gang mentality kinda way, just pointing out that clearly its not a matter of me just trying to see what I want to see(sorry had to throw that line in there:D).

6th

redout wrote: »

Is Boards turning into China, North Korea, Iran ?

Nope. BTW your sig is in breach of the Boards.ie rules.

LuckyLloyd

The soccer mods were not consulted on the decision. It was not GuanYin's decision. Anger in relation to this situation should not be directed in her direction.

The Admin team have made this call. It's a terrible call which sets a horrendous precedent. It carries ramifications for the way in which every member of boards.ie uses the place. I understand that the Admin team wishes to discuss the matter behind closed doors, which is understandable. But why there cannot also be a parallel conversation taking place here aswell is beyond me. Obviously, people posting here would need to realize that:

A) they need to keep things civil and on point;
there is no time frame within which they can demand an answer to any specific point or inquiry made here;

But they should get to discuss it. Who knows? Maybe something might be said here which can benefit the discussion taking place in the Ivory Towers.

orestes wrote: »

The soccer forum is more damn trouble than it's worth, the users have proven time and time again they can't be civil (even after the access requests system was brought in cos the place was a hell hole) and the mods constantly get more shit than any volunteer should have to deal with. Just delete the place, it's beyond salvation

I am still volunteering, as are Xavi6, therecklessone, Dub13, Thanx4thefish, GuanYin, Hullabaloo and Ruggie Bear. We're trying, we think we do ok. We know we can do better, and we are hopeful of making some serious headway over the next couple of months.

If this thread lives, it shouldn't really be to discuss the overall performance of the soccer mod team, or the future of the forum. There is a particular topic at hand - that is more important than all that.

If you don't like soccer, or don't like this soccer forum - sail elsewhere on the good sea internet.

mayordenis

hullaballoo wrote: »

If a member on this site is using a boards.ie spin-off (here, the boards.ie xperteleven league) for abusing other members, then why not ban them from the originating forum (here, the Soccer forum)?

I'm sorry this is thoroughly lacking in logic,
I'll do my best to keep to your rules but for us the apparent "owners" of the site "Why not?" is not a good enough reason to ban some one.

but anyway Why Not?
There is no official Boards.ie power over this game it just happens that people from boards are playing this completely 3rd party game together.
I believe there may well be Boards.ie Bebo or Facebook groups if I abuse someone in there am I facing a ban in here?

DSB

6th wrote: »

Nope. BTW your sig is in breach of the Boards.ie rules.

So is your post. And admittedly, mine.;)

LuckyLloyd

hullaballoo wrote: »

However, it's a VERY peculiar set of circumstances in this case and is unlikely to crop up again. Thus, it's not necessarily a precedent. We don't do precedents anyway because we're not bound by a previous decision. Even if we were, it's such an unusual and rare set of circumstances that I don't see it arising again until boards.ie actually do own the Internet.

Do you honestly believe that?

orestes

mike65 wrote: »

orestes, shall I get the ladder so you can mount your horse?

That thinly veiled abuse, in the context of this thread, is either the greatest piece of subtle satire I've seen in a long time or so ironic that words fail me

Dudess

Could the passive-aggressive "I'll probably get banned for arguing with a mod", "Hmmm... look, a user got banned - wonder if it has anything to do with them disagreeing with a mod" type comments be done away with? As you can see, a number of mods are querying this ban too, thus not exactly fortifying the case for cries of "mod conspiracy".

Gary ITR

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Admin team have made this call. It's a terrible call which sets a horrendous precedent. It carries ramifications for the way in which every member of boards.ie uses the place. I understand that the Admin team wishes to discuss the matter behind closed doors, which is understandable. But why there cannot also be a parallel conversation taking place here aswell is beyond me.

What ramifications? Why would the owners/admins allow one of their volunteers to be abused somewhere that their name is being used?

mike65

Originally Posted by hullaballoo
However, it's a VERY peculiar set of circumstances in this case and is unlikely to crop up again. Thus, it's not necessarily a precedent. We don't do precedents anyway because we're not bound by a previous decision. Even if we were, it's such an unusual and rare set of circumstances that I don't see it arising again until boards.ie actually do own the Internet.

Thing is now it could be tested many and often times.

Nevyn

It's not big or clever to post abuse about a mod or a poster on another site and id them there. I've had it happen due to cowards who know such behaviour is not acceptable on this site and have had to ask the admins on sites which I do not post to remove posts, links and emails.

If someone does that on a seperate site and someone is foolish enough to quote it here then tough tbh, they should know better.

Time Magazine

Thank you for the post, Hulla, but:

hullaballoo wrote: »

If it was for e.g., Helix, complaining about being subjected to personal attacks from, say, PHB (I know, I lolled too - as if, like) on boards.ie that had migrated over to another boards.ie spin-off, say, the boards.ie stock exchange league on bullbearings.co.uk. PHB might well expect that the behaviour, which involves two of our members, involved in abuse/a dispute originating from boards.ie, to earn him a ban from, say, the Investments and Markets forum (from whence the bullbearings.co.uk league originates).

I think that's nonsense. Mods are only mods in the forums they mod; posts are only posts on the bloody platform they're posted. Call me a liar, thief and a gombeen man on Feedback and I won't going to ban you from I&M for it. No fecking way would I ban you for it on stating it on another website.

Also discussion of this really should have started a long time ago, and I'd appreciate a reasonable response to my relatively long post above on this point.

Jonathan

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

The soccer forum mod, GuanYin, is a member of the boards.ie league on X11.

RE: the issue at hand.

I can not speak for Helix but as a user of X11 I know what the game is like. In all league people post abusive PRs but it is all in good humour and purely to create banter in the league. I don't know the ins and outs of what happened before this so don't know if Helix meant anything sinister with what he wrote but it could be likely that it was purely banter.

I'm well aware of that, but GY says that she did not ban anyone.
Unless an admin also browses that forum, I can only assume she brought it to the admin's attention.

orestes wrote: »

The soccer forum is more damn trouble than it's worth, the users have proven time and time again they can't be civil (even after the access requests system was brought in cos the place was a hell hole) and the mods constantly get more shit than any volunteer should have to deal with. Just delete the place, it's beyond salvation

Being honest here, I can remember more feedback threads about the wrestling forum than the soccer forum.

I have just done a search and have NEVER posted in either forum (apart from the soccer access request post)

orestes

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I am still volunteering, as are Xavi6, therecklessone, Dub13, Thanx4thefish, GuanYin, Hullabaloo and Ruggie Bear. We're trying, we think we do ok. We know we can do better, and we are hopeful of making some serious headway over the next couple of months.

If this thread lives, it shouldn't really be to discuss the overall performance of the soccer mod team, or the future of the forum. There is a particular topic at hand - that is more important than all that.

If you don't like soccer, or don't like this soccer forum - sail elsewhere on the good sea internet.

Sorry LL, that wasn't meant to come across as a shot at the soccer mods, I think you guys do a fantastic job in a very difficult forum with some very difficult posters and I personally consider the soccer mods to be amongst the best on this site and think you all get way too much crap and not enough credit for the work you do on here.

KevIRL

Onkle wrote: »

What ramifications? Why would the owners/admins allow one of their volunteers to be abused somewhere that their name is being used?

So by this line of thinking if at the next 'best of boards' poker game, I happen to hear someone refer luckylloyd as a Cnut, I can go ban this person permenantly from the poker forum?

That good sir is complete poppycock

Dudess

I have been reliably informed there is more to this than meets the eye - so it's actually a bit hasty to presume this is simply a case of Helix being banned for publishing stuff other people said... however, it still appears unfair to those not in the know, and the goading of him no less childish...

orestes

Jonathan wrote: »

Being honest here, I can remember more feedback threads about the wrestling forum than the soccer forum.

I have just done a search and have NEVER posted in either forum (apart from the soccer access request post)

You want to discuss that, start another thread, but I suggest you do a fair bit of research before you do so

mike65

Ah, more smokes and daggers a full disclosure would be helpful.

invincibleirish

Hullabaloo or any of the Soccer mods, was this the first time complaints have been received about 'abuse' or any other carry on in the xpert11/EP forums?

Gary ITR

KevIRL wrote: »

So by this line of thinking if at the next 'best of boards' poker game, I happen to hear someone refer luckylloyd as a Cnut, I can go ban this person permenantly from the poker forum?

That good sir is complete poppycock

That's a whole different scenario. That press release was planned to get a rise. Somebody sitting at a poker table calling somebody a cnut is different altogether.

Mr.Nice Guy

Seems to me it's pretty harsh to ban him as from what I understand the other site seems to encourage a bit of banter amongst people and the kinds of exchanges that wouldn't be tolerated on Boards.

In fairness to the Admins they were trying to do the right thing but perhaps weren't aware of the way people related to one another on the other site. Looks like there's a bit of crossed wires on this matter.

From what I've seen of Helix on the soccer forum he's never struck me as a troublemaker so I hope the issue can be resolved.

tribulus

Dudess wrote: »

I have been reliably informed there is more to this than meets the eye - so it's actually a bit hasty to presume this is simply a case of Helix being banned for publishing stuff other people said... however, it still appears unfair to those not in the know, and the goading of him no less childish...

Perhaps there's good reason for these details to be kept hidden but if - and I stress if - these details are a factor in the admins decision making then how can they expect the people against this banning to see it from their point of view at all when they don't have the whole picture?

ShooterSF

First off can I say I think a good few posters in the soccer forum and outside wanted this discussion so I really hope we can stay civil and avoid giving an easy option to lock the thread.

I know Helix from the soccer forum. We aren't buddies. The first I heard of this I sent him a PM supporting his cause. I really think the ban and especially the lenght of such ban is grossly unfair. I like The economists point that holding off discussions until the admins have their opinion and story set is the wrong way to do things. A properly policed feedback thread as soon as it was warranted would make more sense.
I also love the irony where some users who claim all the mods and admins are in cahoots are told to drop the conspiracy while a few mods and admins seem to think all the soccer forum posters are just looking out for another poster (I am in no way claiming the mods and admins are in cahoots with that comment).

Dudess

tribulus wrote: »

Perhaps there's good reason for these details to be kept hidden but if - and I stress if - these details are a factor in the admins decision making then how can they expect the people against this banning to see it from their point of view at all when they don't have the whole picture?

I completely agree.

LuckyLloyd

invincibleirish wrote: »

Hullabaloo or any of the Soccer mods, was this the first time complaints have been received about 'abuse' or any other carry on in the xpert11/EP forums?

I cannot remember any previous incident that required our input. Though I'm open to correction on that point.

Jazzy

Dudess wrote: »

Could the passive-aggressive "I'll probably get banned for arguing with a mod", "Hmmm... look, a user got banned - wonder if it has anything to do with them disagreeing with a mod" type comments be done away with? As you can see, a number of mods are querying this ban too, thus not exactly fortifying the case for cries of "mod conspiracy".

you are always so paranoid about that subject. perhaps a reflection of other peoples paranoia as regard ganging.

whitewashman wrote:

in fact, given the level of stupidity i have encountered over the years, popularity simply means lowest common denominator, and generally worth keeping away from.

again paranoid. perhaps helix is popular as he is a nice guy who has a lot of weight put behind his opinion. not because hes bigger then the other kids in the class. its amazing where you can put a common denominator.

---

helix is a good poster and should be let back in. i for one do not believe there is actually much to discuss behind the scenes. a big issue will be made, a lot of talking will take place, a lot of red tape will be used and a mess will be made.

1. - do you get banned from a forum for abuse to a mod (from other ppl) that is on another site but is published on this one?

2. - is anything extra-boards (xpert11, drama group, perhaps even another gaming site that has boards users) considered to have the same umbrella over it when info from these sites gets published here?

they are the only 2 issues i really see. you could probably make more up and add in a lot of other paranoid ifs & buts and make more of a mess and more of an issue over this. heck, its already a big issue with half the soccer forum showing up.
personally id make the decisions quickly and liberally

CHD

Just unban him already its going to happen.