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Wikipedia vote: inserting "British Isles" into articles

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    #32
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    getz wrote: »
    before 1920 nobody gave a monkies, there are some sad people about,by the way the term used for the islands of britain came from the romans 100 ad

    I though the Romans called the islands Hibernia and Britannia ?


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    #33
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    And in that Canadian -US analogy the minor matter of centuries of brutal treatment of the former by the latter is where, precisely?


    So now the truth comes out, less about geographic particularities and more about simple indignant bigotry. Too much time on your hands.

    Perhaps we should vote on changing the name of the Ireland rugby team to the 'Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland Team', of course "Ireland" shouldn't really apply to a separate political entity should it? :confused: Given that it's the geographic name of an island, much like the British Isles is a geographic name for a few islands.


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    #34
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    jhegarty wrote: »
    I though the Romans called the islands Hibernia and Britannia ?
    This gets overlooked by the British, again and again
    prinz wrote: »
    Perhaps we should vote on changing the name of the Ireland rugby team to the 'Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland Team'
    Fair enough. Then we wouldn't have Irelands Call mistaken for a national anthem
    prinz wrote: »
    So now the truth comes out, less about geographic particularities and more about simple indignant bigotry. Too much time on your hands.
    Just let it go. Ye came, ye conquered and now the party is over. Ireland isn't British. To quote Paisley "We may be British but our cows are Irish". Just because you are British living in Ireland doesn't mean to get to usurp a country


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    #35
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    How predictable of the Irish Republicans. Getting caught up in the semantics of a title.

    Im confident that the Republic of Ireland is Irish. I dont mind the islands being called the "British Isles" because Im confident enough in the Irish heritage for people to understand that the term in no way implies British control of the south.

    I venture to suggest that those republicans against this term are simply not confident in their own ideal Ireland. They obviosuly feel it is not strong enough to withstand some geographic label, which I find ironic.


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    #36
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    jhegarty wrote: »
    I though the Romans called the islands Hibernia and Britannia ?
    they did, it was known to the romans as britannia which covered all the western islands under one collective,this was long before the angles and saxons ect came over to change the names,before the the romans people on these islands hadent any written language


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    #37
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    IIMII wrote: »
    Just let it go. Ye came, ye conquered and now the party is over. Ireland isn't British.


    Perhaps you should point that out the the OP then? btw I am Irish, I don't know what the "ye" refers to :confused:


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    #38
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    getz wrote: »
    they did, it was known to the romans as britannia which covered all the western islands under one collective,this was long before the angles and saxons ect came over to change the names,before the the romans people on these islands hadent any written language
    Writes he from his armchair in Knott end on sea
    prinz wrote: »
    Perhaps you should point that out the the OP then? btw I am Irish
    My humblest apologies, I thought you might be British


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    #39
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    IIMII wrote: »
    Writes he from his armchair in Knott end on sea

    My humblest apologies, I thought you might be British
    dident take long before the insults to come


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    #40
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    getz wrote: »
    dident take long before the insults to come
    That is my point - the term British Isles is insulting


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    #41
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    To be honest in this situation i just dont want Ireland bungled in with the UK's Colonial Militristic history.

    Why does it have to have a geographic term. The Channel Islands are as much a part of France "geographically" Are they in the British Isles?

    Geographic and Political terms should prob be kept seperate.


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    #42
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    getz wrote: »
    dident take long before the insults to come


    Well it is the usual intellectual argument is it not? If all else fails call them 'west brits' etc.


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    #43
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Deedsie wrote: »
    To be honest in this situation i just dont want Ireland bungled in with the UK's Colonial Militristic history.

    Ah yes this old nugget. Our own colonialist past can safely be swept under the carpet and we can blame it on the British.


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    #44
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    prinz wrote: »
    Well it is the usual intellectual argument is it not? If all else fails call them 'west brits' etc.
    And how is that different to when occupation fails using geography and calling them 'British Islanders'? And the term British is your own, definitely not mine
    prinz wrote: »
    Our own colonialist past can safely be swept under the carpet and we can blame it on the British.
    True, we did have our collaborators. Like the French, Dutch etc did in WW2


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    #45
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Who ever called anyone a "British Islander"?


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    #46
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    IIMII wrote: »
    And how is that different to when occupation fails using geography and calling them 'British Islanders'? And the term British is your own, definitely not mine

    True, we did have our collaborators. Like the French, Dutch etc did in WW2
    That the British Isles were all, with the exception of the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, included in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland until 1922, when most of Ireland left, is also highly relevant to some. Although early variants of the term date back to Ancient Greek times, the term fell into disuse for over a millennium and was introduced into English in the late 16th or early 17th centuries by English and Welsh writers whose writings have been described as propaganda and politicized[5][6][7]. The term was not in wide use in Britain before at least the second half of the 17th century. The term was widely accepted from the late 18th century to at least the early 20th and problems with the term date mostly to the period after Irish independence.
    Around AD 70 Pliny the Elder, in Book 4 of his Naturalis Historia, describes the islands he considers to be Britanniae as including Great Britain, Ireland, The Orkneys, smaller islands such as the Hebrides, Isle of Man, Anglesey, possibly one of the Friesan Islands, and islands that have been identified as Ushant and Sian

    QED. Unless Pliny was a British imperialist occupier I think that clinches it.


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    #47
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    turgon wrote: »
    Who ever called anyone a "British Islander"?
    If one lives on a 'British Isle', is one then not a 'British Islander'? You haven't thought this through, have you?


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    #48
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    prinz wrote: »
    QED.
    Hah? That's like saying something must be so in Galway because an Aborigine said so in Australia. Look, if we wanted to be known by that title, the state would recognise it.

    (Which it doesn't fyi)


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    #49
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    IIMII wrote: »
    That is my point - the term British Isles is insulting
    why ?is it the word british? i live in a area called; poulton-le-fylde ; and thats what the french named it after they invaded ,i have never heard anyone in the uk trying to change its name, because they dislike the french , i bet you dont speak english


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    #50
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    IIMII wrote: »
    Hah? That's like saying something must be so in Galway because an Aborigine said so in Australia. Look, if we wanted to be known by that title, the state would recognise it.

    (Which it doesn't fyi)


    Well hang on, you just said it was a post-partition invention...


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    #51
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    IIMII wrote: »
    Exactly, isn't Britain located in the Irish sea? Slam dunk, your ass is ours

    I would say that the Irish sea got its name from the British perspective, as in (cue English accent) "That sea leads to Ireland"


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    #52
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    getz wrote: »
    why ?is it the word british? i live in a area called; poulton-le-fylde ; and thats what the french named it after they invaded ,i have never heard anyone in the uk trying to change its name, because they dislike the french , i bet you dont speak english
    And I live in a place known as Ireland, also an English word. Sadly other less acceptable English words are British Isles, but that is not because of the English language as the State also rejects Les Iles Britanniques just as suredly. I can assure you the problem lies in the term, not the tongue
    getz wrote: »
    i bet you dont speak english
    Um, that's what I studied in UCD - Old Middle & Modern English


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    #53
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    getz wrote: »
    why ?is it the word british? i live in a area called; poulton-le-fylde ; and thats what the french named it after they invaded ,i have never heard anyone in the uk trying to change its name, because they dislike the french , i bet you dont speak english


    You just dont get it do you?:rolleyes:

    Yes the term "British Isles" exists and has been otherwise we wldnt be having this debate.

    Its history is irrelevant no matter who the fcuk came up with it.

    The point being that its use is archaic and redundant and many Irish people find it offensive because of its political overtones.

    Therefore we dont use it and like heck we will have some somebody in the UK telling us what how we should describe these islands or our island.

    Nobody here would tell you should change the name of your town because it is none of our business likewise what we call this island is absolutely none of your business...:rolleyes:


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    #54
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    Dardania wrote: »
    I would say that the Irish sea got its name from the British perspective, as in (cue English accent) "That sea leads to Ireland"
    It did, of course


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    #55
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    IIMII wrote: »
    If one lives on a 'British Isle', is one then not a 'British Islander'? You haven't thought this through, have you?

    British Isle is a geographic term, not a politically one.

    I live in Cork, so am I a Lee valleyer?


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    #56
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    prinz wrote: »
    Well hang on, you just said it was a post-partition invention...
    I did? I said we were subjugated pre-1920, and the term has become fashionable since then. Prior to then the British were happy with Britain & Ireland. When the couldn't say that anymore, then switched to geography, implying a sphere of influence


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    #57
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    partyguinness wrote: »
    many Irish people find it offensive because of its political overtones.

    And whos problem do think that is?


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    #58
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    turgon wrote: »
    British Isle is a geographic term, not a politically one.

    I live in Cork, so am I a Lee valleyer?
    Technically yes, if you live in the Lee valley. Are you insulted by that term?


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    #59
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Therefore we dont use it and like heck we will have some somebody in the UK telling us what how we should describe these islands or our island.


    But you're happy enough telling them how they should describe a geographical area.


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    #60
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    turgon wrote: »
    And whos problem do think that is?
    Our problem obviously, because we live next to meglomaniacs that want to control how our country is percieved abroad


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    #61
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    turgon wrote: »
    And whos problem do think that is?


    It's our "problem" if you want to call it...:confused:..which is why the phrase is being phased out and barely used.

    Plus it has no legal or political status whatsoever.


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