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Wikipedia vote: inserting "British Isles" into articles

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    #62
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    prinz wrote: »
    But you're happy enough telling them how they should describe a geographical area.
    I'd say we are more polite - if they want to be called British, that's fine. Calling us British is well, another matter completely


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    #63
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    Nodin wrote: »
    As he's from Cork, doubtless worse has been thrown at him....

    (j/k)
    I was going to do just that in jest... :)


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    #64
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    IIMII wrote: »
    I did? I said we were subjugated pre-1920, and the term has become fashionable since then. Prior to then the British were happy with Britain & Ireland. When the couldn't say that anymore, then switched to geography, implying a sphere of influence


    Bitter and paranoid much? ffs. We also use the term Iberian Peninsula, from Roman times, which geographically encompasses five political entities, the etymology of the word coming from a river in present day Spain. What does that imply?


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    #65
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    prinz wrote: »
    But you're happy enough telling them how they should describe a geographical area.


    You still dont get it.

    You can call the area whatever the hell you like but leave us out of it...:rolleyes:


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    #66
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    prinz wrote: »
    Bitter and paranoid much? ffs. We also use the term Iberian Peninsula, from Roman times, which geographically encompasses five political entities. What does that imply?


    Named after the country "Iberia" no doubt....christ you still dont get it or else you are just a troll.


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    #67
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    prinz wrote: »
    Bitter and paranoid much? ffs.
    Yeah... My passport says Ireland, not Britain. My State objects to the term 'British Isle'. Why the bullboy attitude of trying to force another nations terminology on another?


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    #68
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    turgon wrote: »
    British Isle is a geographic term, not a politically one.

    Hilarious. The comedians are everywhere.


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    #69
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    IIMII wrote: »
    Our problem obviously, because we live next to meglomaniacs that want to control how our country is percieved abroad

    Who is "our"? Its certainly not my problem. Please dont bunch me in.


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    #70
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    IIMII wrote: »
    Yeah... My passport says Ireland, not Britain. My State objects to the term 'British Isle'. Why the bullboy attitude of trying to force another nations terminology on another?


    ..because the British are like that..its more ignorant Little Englander than anything else. I have seen it many times before. I blame their education.


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    #71
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    turgon wrote: »
    Who is "our"? Its certainly not my problem. Please dont bunch me in.
    Look, as British Islanders, we are all in this together


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    #72
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    IIMII wrote: »
    That is my point - the term British Isles is insulting
    To whom, and why?

    It's a geographic term, not a political one. It seems to me the only people who are offended by the term are those who are choosing to be offended by it, and then only because they are deliberately conflating the geographic with the politic.

    In other words, they are seeking out things to be offended by, and demanding that they be changed so that they are no longer forced to be offended by them.

    Genuine question: why do those who object to the term "British Isles" not also object to the term "Irish Sea"? For that matter, why do they not leap to the defence of the poor oppressed French, who have to endure the "English Channel" to their north?


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    #73
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    prinz wrote: »
    So now the truth comes out, less about geographic particularities and more about simple indignant bigotry.


    My, to think that there is still one person who believes "British Isles" is merely about "geographic particularities". Bless you and your sweet innocence.

    [Try reading the British Isles article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles) and you'll find the term was coined in 1577 by a guy called John Dee who was very definitely motivated by promoting a British empire covering Ireland]



    Perhaps we should vote on changing the name of the Ireland rugby team to the 'Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland Team', of course "Ireland" shouldn't really apply to a separate political entity should it? :confused: Given that it's the geographic name of an island, much like the British Isles is a geographic name for a few islands.

    Silly, and illogical, and historically illiterate all in one.


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    #74
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Do you think the peoples of Scandinavia would accept it being called say, The Norwegian Isles or The Swedish Isles or The Finnish Isles? I'm thinking not. Do you think the peoples of the Iberian peninsula would be happy with it being called the Spanish Isles or The Portuguese Isles? Again I'm thinking not. (Obviously they're not actually islands but you get the idea) The people in these areas may be genetically similar but for many reason they wouldn't be happy with those names so why should we accept British Isles?

    So from the point of view of accuracy, tourism identity, painful historical legacy and a number of other reasons I really don't like the term.


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    #75
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    To whom, and why?

    To all those Irish people who avoid using the term, because they are not British.


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    #76
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Genuine question: why do those who object to the term "British Isles" not also object to the term "Irish Sea"?
    Change it to the sea of Britain, not worried about that at all.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    For that matter, why do they not leap to the defence of the poor oppressed French, who have to endure the "English Channel" to their north?
    I'm not French, but the same process that led to the English Channel being the channel across which England was located from France, later led the descendants of those same Normans to call the Irish sea as the sea across which is Ireland.

    Not worried about either term to be honest. I live on an island, not in the sea


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    #77
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    To whom, and why?

    It's a geographic term, not a political one. It seems to me the only people who are offended by the term are those who are choosing to be offended by it, and then only because they are deliberately conflating the geographic with the politic.

    In other words, they are seeking out things to be offended by, and demanding that they be changed so that they are no longer forced to be offended by them.

    Genuine question: why do those who object to the term "British Isles" not also object to the term "Irish Sea"? For that matter, why do they not leap to the defence of the poor oppressed French, who have to endure the "English Channel" to their north?


    Yes it is a geographical term that is obvious. The problem is with the political overtones. That should be obvious.

    To suggest that people are looking for offence is quiet frankly naive.

    If you want to open up a new thread about the Irish Sea or English Channel go right ahead..might see you there.;)


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    #78
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    partyguinness wrote: »
    If you want to open up a new thread about the Irish Sea or English Channel go right ahead..might see you there.;)
    Yeah, head off and we'll catch up after this pint


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    #79
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Silly, and illogical, and historically illiterate all in one.

    Why so? If I am a subject of the United Kingdom, is it not silly to play on a team called 'Ireland' merely because it is a geographical term?


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    #80
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    IIMII wrote: »
    Look, as British Islanders, we are all in this together
    10 AD strabo-the most southern of the brettans are further north than this---bliny the elder in 70 AD bliny enumerates the islands he considers to make up the britannias, listing great britain,ireland ,and many smaller islands.--ptolemy is quite clear that ireland[he calls hibernia] belongs to the group he calls britannia, lets just call them the anglo/celtic islands


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    #81
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    prinz wrote: »
    Bitter and paranoid much? ffs. We also use the term Iberian Peninsula, from Roman times, which geographically encompasses five political entities, the etymology of the word coming from a river in present day Spain. What does that imply?

    And was the name of that 'river in present day Spain' also the name of the people who subjugated the other people in the Iberian Peninsula for centuries?

    Try, please try, and get analogies which are even remotely appropriate/intelligent.


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    #82
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Named after the country "Iberia" no doubt....christ you still dont get it or else you are just a troll.

    No it comes from a river and area in Spain, but guess what? the Portuguese couldn't give a crap. It is a geographical name.


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    #83
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    getz wrote: »
    10 AD strabo-the most southern of the brettans are further north than this---bliny the elder in 70 AD bliny enumerates the islands he considers to make up the britannias, listing great britain,ireland ,and many smaller islands.--ptolemy is quite clear that ireland[he calls hibernia] belongs to the group he calls britannia, lets just call them the anglo/celtic islands
    Look, you and the Romans had a great knack fo distance naming, but that doesn't mean we want you to name us. Can't ye handle a polite rejection?


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    #84
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    prinz wrote: »
    Why so? If I am a subject of the United Kingdom, is it not silly to play on a team called 'Ireland' merely because it is a geographical term?

    For starters, those last seven words justify my fifth and fourth last words.


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    #85
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    prinz wrote: »
    Why so? If I am a subject of the United Kingdom, is it not silly to play on a team called 'Ireland' merely because it is a geographical term?
    Bad example, murky and controversial area

    Edit: Are you talking about soccer?


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    #86
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    And was the name of that 'river in present day Spain' also the name of the people who subjugated the other people in the Iberian Peninsula for centuries?

    Try, please try, and get analogies which are even remotely appropriate/intelligent.


    Care to explain the area known as New England?

    Or the West Indies.....?


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    #87
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    My, to think that there is still one person who believes "British Isles" is merely about "geographic particularities"...

    More than one.

    Do you think Britain wants us back? They would almost certainly (but for the skinhead element in their population) gladly be rid of NI.


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    #88
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    To whom, and why?

    It's a geographic term, not a political one. It seems to me the only people who are offended by the term are those who are choosing to be offended by it, and then only because they are deliberately conflating the geographic with the politic.

    In other words, they are seeking out things to be offended by, and demanding that they be changed so that they are no longer forced to be offended by them.

    Well not exactly. The term is used very much in a political way, you only have to look at wikipedia to see that. I'm not choosing to be offended but I'll admit it does kinda offend me. I do not like the direct association with Britain and I don't think it serves us well internationally.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Genuine question: why do those who object to the term "British Isles" not also object to the term "Irish Sea"? For that matter, why do they not leap to the defence of the poor oppressed French, who have to endure the "English Channel" to their north?

    These are small strips of ocean not specific to a country or countries.


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    #89
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    IIMII wrote: »
    Look, you and the Romans had a great knack fo distance naming, but that doesn't mean we want you to name us. Can't ye handle a polite rejection?
    they are greek


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    #90
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    getz wrote: »
    they are greek
    But in Ireland we call them Romans.............................................. Roman Islanders that is. And hell, who cares if they are offended


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    #91
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    To all those Irish people who avoid using the term, because they are not British.
    I'm not British, and I have no issue with the term. Why? Because it is a geographic term, and has no political overtones except those that people choose to give it.
    partyguinness wrote: »
    Yes it is a geographical term that is obvious. The problem is with the political overtones. That should be obvious.
    It has no political overtones, except those that people choose to give it.
    To suggest that people are looking for offence is quiet frankly naive.
    I disagree. In order to be offended by the term, it is necessary firstly to redefine it to mean something that it doesn't mean. The term "British Isles" doesn't refer to ownership or political control, and hasn't for as long as I've been using it. To be offended by it requires that you consciously attach such an interpretation to it, and then get offended at your interpretation.


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