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What happens if Ireland goes bankrupt.

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  • 03-06-2009 5:26am
    #1
    bobbiw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭


    With goverment spending way more than their tax income what could happen if they run out of money,

    What did they do with all the income they made.

    Would europe bail Ireland out after Lisbon.

    What logisticly would happen,


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    #2
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    america loves us. We will be grand


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    #3
    bobbiw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭bobbiw


    I dont think so,

    But I would like to understand what happens. I think it could take 10 years 20 years but the Goverment would have to tax the **** out of people.

    Like in the 80s where there was so high unemployment taxes were very high. Like 60c on the euro.

    But come on a Christmas Bonus on the dole for being a failure in life, damn they should have made them clean the streets.


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    #4
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    bobbiw wrote: »
    What logisticly would happen,
    Dole and state pensions slashed. Schools/universities closed. Mass-layoffs in the public sector. Fire-sale of public utiliies to foreign speculators. Price increases for services. Water charges. All motorways privitised and tolled. All revenue goes to pay off the debt. Parts of South Dublin gated and secured by armed private security companies. Ireland wins the Eurovision again.


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    #5
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,398 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Ireland wins the Eurovision again.

    is that what it would take, i was wondering

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #6
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    bobbiw wrote: »
    Would europe bail Ireland out after Lisbon.

    they already send north of 120billion our way, we should keep voting no :D
    bobbiw wrote: »
    What logisticly would happen
    IMF would step in (or maybe some sort of similar EU institution? ECB?) and strip all meat and fat from the bones of the public sector and the dole
    seanybiker wrote: »
    america loves us. We will be grand

    lol, rubbish! Obama decreed that he wants all the tax money washed thru here back last month...


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    #7
    Small Change
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Small Change


    bobbiw wrote: »

    Would europe bail Ireland out after Lisbon.
    ,

    Lisbon is largely irrelevant in this scenario, the key factor is membership of the Euro.
    The possibility of a eurozone country defaulting on soverign debt would be a nightmare scenario for the Euro and other eurozone economies and I imagine that the ECB would take whatever steps were necessary to prevent this.


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    #8
    newman10
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭newman10


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Dole and state pensions slashed. Schools/universities closed. Mass-layoffs in the public sector. Fire-sale of public utiliies to foreign speculators. Price increases for services. Water charges. All motorways privitised and tolled. All revenue goes to pay off the debt. Parts of South Dublin gated and secured by armed private security companies. Ireland wins the Eurovision again.

    Think Argentina only we win the World Cup :rolleyes: Willie O Dea as leader of the Junta :eek:


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    #9
    kevteljeur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭kevteljeur


    seanybiker wrote: »
    america loves us. We will be grand

    That was sarcasm, right? If it's not, then you might have noticed how many US companies have been cutting back their operations here, or moving them to cheaper countries. They love us while we're cheaper. When we stop being cheaper, they love us much less.

    And as a state we have not gotten, and never will get, bail-outs from the US.


    .


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    #10
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Ireland wont go bankrupt.

    every nation is running a budget defecit at the moment.
    Ours is rather high unfortunately.

    The government will borrow as they always have done, as all nations have to do.

    lisbon treaty? - irrelevent
    eurovision? - just as irrelevent.


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Our main problem would be the government borrowing to curry favour with the public as opposed to cutting back on anything. The government seems to be betting on the possibility of this recession ending in the next 2-3 years, because if it doesn't, well be in the same situation we are in today, except 10's of billions more in debt.

    But I do believe the euro is our saviour in all of this. We have some powerful friends in it and I would hope that all the european naysayers would think twice next time we vote on Lisbon.

    What we really need is a government with a backbone.


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    #12
    Small Change
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Small Change


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Ireland wont go bankrupt.

    every nation is running a budget defecit at the moment.
    Ours is rather high unfortunately.

    The government will borrow as they always have done, as all nations have to do.

    .

    Ireland Northern Rock wont go bankrupt.

    every nation Bank is running a budget defecit depending on wholesale funding at the moment.
    Ours is rather high unfortunately.

    The government Bank will borrow as they always have done, as all nations banks have to do.


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    #13
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    :confused:
    explain


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    #14
    TheInquisitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭TheInquisitor


    All 4.5 million of us get on ryanir flights and abandon the country. Banks then reposess our green isle


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    #15
    lukasbasic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭lukasbasic


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Ireland wont go bankrupt.

    every nation is running a budget defecit at the moment.
    Ours is rather high unfortunately.

    The government will borrow as they always have done, as all nations have to do.

    lisbon treaty? - irrelevent
    eurovision? - just as irrelevent.

    I don't think so. Borrow from who? this nations debt is too high.
    there is a risk for all nations to go bankrupt - I think Ireland will be one of the first winners:)


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    #16
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Dole and state pensions slashed. Schools/universities closed. Mass-layoffs in the public sector. Fire-sale of public utiliies to foreign speculators. Price increases for services. Water charges. All motorways privitised and tolled. All revenue goes to pay off the debt. Parts of South Dublin gated and secured by armed private security companies.
    Some of the above will happen sooner than expected. Why should foreigners continue to lend us billions of euro, when we as a country pay our taoiseach more than the P.M. of the US, UK, or Germany, when the head of our central bank is the highest paid in the world, and all the other excessive govt payouts down, to hundreds of thousands of people.


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    #17
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Listen, I'm appaled by the level of government debt requirement for 2009 and it will be little better for 2010 also.

    But the fact is that the NTMA have been auctioning government bonds at bond sales to raise the required monies and from what I remember on RTE. the demand for Irish debt bonds has been quite good.

    I believe the interest we're offering on these bonds is currently 4-5%.
    There is the possibility that if it becomes harder to sell these bonds the Gov will have to offer them at a higher return, which in turn costs us more down the line.

    So being a young person I am galled at the level of debt the country will be burdened with for years to come. But the nation wont become bankrupt.
    (I think the UK will run a £120 billion deficit for this year - to take a comparrison)


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    #18
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Listen, I'm appaled by the level of government debt requirement for 2009 and it will be little better for 2010 also.

    But the fact is that the NTMA have been auctioning government bonds at bond sales to raise the required monies and from what I remember on RTE. the demand for Irish debt bonds has been quite good.

    I believe the interest we're offering on these bonds is currently 4-5%.
    There is the possibility that if it becomes harder to sell these bonds the Gov will have to offer them at a higher return, which in turn costs us more down the line.

    So being a young person I am galled at the level of debt the country will be burdened with for years to come. But the nation wont become bankrupt.
    (I think the UK will run a £120 billion deficit for this year - to take a comparrison)

    uk is a bit larger to in every respect


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    #19
    Small Change
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Small Change


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    :confused:
    explain

    The idea that a country cannot go bankrupt because we have always relied on borrowing in the past and everyone else is borrowing aswell is similar to the logic that would have been applied to banks in recent times.

    The lesson from Northern Rock is that historically stable sources of credit can and do dry up in extreme circumstances


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    #20
    kevteljeur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭kevteljeur


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Listen, I'm appaled by the level of government debt requirement for 2009 and it will be little better for 2010 also.

    But the fact is that the NTMA have been auctioning government bonds at bond sales to raise the required monies and from what I remember on RTE. the demand for Irish debt bonds has been quite good.

    I believe the interest we're offering on these bonds is currently 4-5%.
    There is the possibility that if it becomes harder to sell these bonds the Gov will have to offer them at a higher return, which in turn costs us more down the line.

    So being a young person I am galled at the level of debt the country will be burdened with for years to come. But the nation wont become bankrupt.
    (I think the UK will run a £120 billion deficit for this year - to take a comparrison)

    Unfortunately, as a bad a situation as that seems, I have to agree. We'll have very high levels of debt and taxation for a long time, but the country won't become bankrupt. Of course, the situation with our nationalising the bank debts could change that dramatically, and that also affects the selling of bonds internationally; if the Irish state is seen to be using the money raised from bonds to simply buy into more debt, then we're obviously not the brightest, and unlikely to be paying out on those bonds any time soon. Selling bonds will get very much harder and I believe that this is happening already.

    That begs the question, if buying out Anglo Irish Bank in order to save a handful of builders and bad (possibly illegal) deals from public scrutiny, or indeed legal action, might threaten the stability of the entire economy? Isn't that practically a crime against the state? I guess that's for another thread, or the conspiracy forums... ;)

    We do operate with far smaller amounts of money here though, so it's not a good idea to look at the UK, or France or Germany for comparisons. Our levels of credit or debt are small change for them. On the flipside, our state never has very much money in reserve which is why we inevitably raise taxes while they can afford to try lowering them (or so I believe, and I'm happy to be corrected on that point).


    .


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    #21
    kevteljeur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭kevteljeur


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Some of the above will happen sooner than expected. Why should foreigners continue to lend us billions of euro, when we as a country pay our taoiseach more than the P.M. of the US, UK, or Germany, when the head of our central bank is the highest paid in the world, and all the other excessive govt payouts down, to hundreds of thousands of people.

    It's very true, it's exactly the sort of the thing that happens when the IMF or other hardball players get involved. I'd say it was suggested by the Germans when Cowen went over a few months ago looking for a bail-out from the EU (and Germany in particular). As you'll recall, he came back looking a bit sheepish, and that's when they started working on a budget involving higher taxes and pay-cuts. They still didn't raise the corporate tax rates, and that will come in time, along with cuts to the ridiculous pay rates at the top-end.

    Would the opposition implement them if they got in? I guess we'll have to wait and see.



    .


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    #22
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    kevteljeur wrote: »
    ...Would the opposition implement them if they got in? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

    They will; they will have no choice.

    It is shameful that they are currently pretending otherwise.


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    #23
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Small Change wrote: »
    The idea that a country cannot go bankrupt because we have always relied on borrowing in the past and everyone else is borrowing aswell is similar to the logic that would have been applied to banks in recent times.

    The lesson from Northern Rock is that historically stable sources of credit can and do dry up in extreme circumstances

    Your probably right.
    But we dont know what stage Ireland is at yet.

    If say next month the NTMA are told to raise 3 billion in bonds & no one is buying, well then that becomes a pretty bad situation pretty fast.

    At that point we would be looking at getting emergency loans from the IMF.
    But I dont know if thats a likelyhood, simply because we dont know how much credit is available internationaly... its all speculation on our part.


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    #24
    Belfast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    bobbiw wrote: »
    With goverment spending way more than their tax income what could happen if they run out of money,

    What Happens when Countries Go Bankrupt?
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,588419,00.html
    bobbiw wrote: »
    What did they do with all the income they made.

    it was spent expanding the public service.
    bobbiw wrote: »
    Would europe bail Ireland out after Lisbon.

    NO.
    bobbiw wrote: »
    What logisticly would happen,


    What Happens when Countries Go Bankrupt?
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,588419,00.html


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    #25
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Your probably right.
    But we dont know what stage Ireland is at yet.

    If say next month the NTMA are told to raise 3 billion in bonds & no one is buying, well then that becomes a pretty bad situation pretty fast.

    At that point we would be looking at getting emergency loans from the IMF.
    But I dont know if thats a likelyhood, simply because we dont know how much credit is available internationaly... its all speculation on our part.


    If you were a householder, would you lend money to someone who still paid themsevles ( and other residents who do work around the house ) more than you do , and more than any other household ? Why is our government + their employees still among the higest paid in the world ?


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    #26
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    What about state organisations like the post office that you might have savings with? I'm just thinking about my few pounds!! :)


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    #27
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    If you were a householder, would you lend money to someone who still paid themsevles ( and other residents who do work around the house ) more than you do , and more than any other household ? Why is our government + their employees still among the higest paid in the world ?

    jimmmy, you are a one-trick pony. It's over-reaching yourself to try performing the same trick in a number of different rings. Take yourself back to http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055573502


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    #28
    bobbiw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭bobbiw


    The issue I think is that dopes are in goverment.

    They mismanaged the boom beyond compare.

    Mike Tyson could give them financial advice.


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    #29
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    Belfast wrote: »
    What Happens when Countries Go Bankrupt?
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,588419,00.html

    thanks for the article, interesting read

    this struck me
    A country has reached this final stage (bankruptcy) if, as a result of war or blatant mismanagement, it has gambled away all trust, can no longer service its debt or convince anyone to lend it any money, no matter how high an interest rate it promises to pay.
    :eek: check check check and check?

    anyways more than likely this would push up the eurozone interest rates hurting all the countries

    we should be lucky we dont have the punt as we would have been "mighty" now :rolleyes:


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    #30
    Daithinski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Daithinski


    bobbiw wrote: »
    I
    But come on a Christmas Bonus on the dole for being a failure in life, damn they should have made them clean the streets.

    I'm not sure that being on the dole makes you a failure in life.:rolleyes:

    I don't see how making people on the dole "clean the streets" for their christmas bonus would be helpful? The government are paying people to do this job, would you suggest these people are sacked?

    The biggest failures in this country are Fianna Fail, they are the one that should be on the dole.


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    #31
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Daithinski wrote: »
    I'm not sure that being on the dole makes you a failure in life.:rolleyes:

    I don't see how making people on the dole "clean the streets" for their christmas bonus would be helpful? The government are paying people to do this job, would you suggest these people are sacked?

    The biggest failures in this country are Fianna Fail, they are the one that should be on the dole.

    streets are only cleaned by council workers in urban areas , take a trip outside the towns or citys and see the amount of litter dumpled along country roads and behind ditches , only people who pick that trash up are volunteers


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