why are we still being ripped off

madser

djpbarry wrote: »

What issues? If a 3-litre car is too expensive too run, then get a smaller car. If the cost of a takeaway is getting too high, then stop eating takeaways (or at least shop around a little). If the price of a pint has gotten too high, then stop going to the pub so often (or again, shop around a little).

The issue of why it costs 600 euro to go down to Wexford for the weekend and it costs 450 to go to Spain for a week? I don't have a 3 litre car and if I had I would expect to run it and buy it for the same price as other people do in other countries, if I want to eat takeaway I expect to pay a reasonable price for it and I don't drink but if I did I don't expect to be ripped off because I live in the city and not in the arse hole of nowhere, I don't think its acceptable to come on to a discussion board and tell people to shop around when everywhere you go there is little difference in price, I cite petrol prices as an example. Im not a beer swilling junk food jeep driving yummy mummy as you seem to be implying.

jimmmy

madser wrote: »

The issue of why it costs 600 euro to go down to Wexford for the weekend and it costs 450 to go to Spain for a week?

I see plenty of offers in the papers where some Irish hotels are doing 3 nights + 1 evening meal for 99 euro.....amazing value considering our minimum wage is probably double what the Spanish one is, our vat rate, our electricity which is the second most expensive in Europe, the cost of sustaining our govt + their employees , our rates + other taxes etc etc etc. Forget your 600 euro holiday.

djpbarry

madser wrote: »

I don't have a 3 litre car and if I had I would expect to run it and buy it for the same price as other people do in other countries...

Which is totally unrealistic.

madser wrote: »

...I don't think its acceptable to come on to a discussion board and tell people to shop around when everywhere you go there is little difference in price...

Well that’s just not true. Take the example of the pint of stout cited by the OP; there are plenty of places in Dublin were a pint can be purchased for considerably less than €5.25. I can also think of any number of takeaways that sell mains for considerably less than €14. Hell, I can think of restaurants that sell mains for less than that! And we’re not exactly talking about “the essentials” here, are we? If I were making a case for a high cost of living, I don’t think I’d be using pints and takeaways as the basis for my argument!

madser

djpbarry wrote: »

Which is totally unrealistic.
Well that’s just not true. Take the example of the pint of stout cited by the OP; there are plenty of places in Dublin were a pint can be purchased for considerably less than €5.25. I can also think of any number of takeaways that sell mains for considerably less than €14. Hell, I can think of restaurants that sell mains for less than that! And we’re not exactly talking about “the essentials” here, are we? If I were making a case for a high cost of living, I don’t think I’d be using pints and takeaways as the basis for my argument!

Why is it unrealistic to buy and run a car for the same price as people do in other countries, why do we have to be ripped off because we live in Ireland, why do we have registration tax when no other european country has it and as for your second point the thread is about being ripped off, its nothing to do with essentials, the fact that you can get a takeaway cheaper in one place or another doesn't take away from the fact that your being ripped off. I don't think its up to you to dictate what people chose to use to make their argument anyway.

gurramok

SLUSK wrote: »

Prices will not come down, inflation is soon going to hit the western world with a massive hammerblow. I envision riots over rising costs for petrol, food and utilities.

A bit extreme but what you say is true.

Now I know there are factors like currency etc, but taxes have remained almost static.... and the dollar/euro rate hasnt changed that much.

Have you seen your May pay cheque yet? Everyone got hammered as a result of the budget.

Just to expand on Slusk's point, wait until record low interest rates start going up and then Ireland Inc will really be struggling inclusively including the mortgage holders.

cfcj

I'm going back to college Jimmy, so 4yrs time maybe I will venture into my own business when I get my degree and a bit more meat into my skillset. I think given the percentage of business that ordinarily fail in their initial years this is the best thing I can do. But I take your point that its time everyone rolls up their sleeves. I don't think it is easy to make money in Ireland, I think that you need to have a massive dependance on international trade to make any sort of money and the 'buy local' pride seems to be non existent or very scarce. I buy Irish where I can and regularly check barcodes to see if they have been made in Ireland (539xxxxxxx) though lots of Irish companies use UK barcode numbers for some reason.

I am so fed up of 'bandwaggon' comments about the economy, blaming everyone and anyone without realising the situation the country or the world is actually in.

My belief is that core needs like housing and transport should not be profitable entities and without going down the road of a nanny statehood they should be regulated accordingly, but what politician is going to do that?... no politician is going to cap or stop speculation on house prices. Can you imagine the the reaction in places like south Dublin if they did that to their precious multi-million priced houses?

If you think tax is outragous here then you need to compare it to other countries, we have a 36% tax to GDP, UK is 39%, Germany is 40% and France is at a whopping 46% so we don't have it too bad. I would be in favour of taxing the rich and reducing the tax on us mere mortal below or at the average national wage, however the reality is the 'Bono factor' where they just uproot and move where they pay less tax, and lets be honest if that was us we would probably do the same.

Like everyone it kills me that they had to bail out the banks, but I know they had to... look at Iceland that has collapsed because they didn't get in there in time. Its difficult to know what they are going to do with the banks, no country has come up with a definitive answer of how to manage the situation and balance a of regulation and enough movement for the markets to trade but I know we can't lead with this... Ireland is a follower and this is where we must stay if we want to keep our standard of living we have gotten used to.

I think every political party has got it wrong Fianna Fail haven't been strong and haven't made a good effort with communicating what exactly they are doing or have missed opportunities. And checking in on Fine Gael's policies I was a little scared at how stupid they were (check on their website). I'm not an economist but they plan to cut tax and create jobs by reducing the public sector staff.... hmm! Maybe someone can have a look at them and explain it to me.

Sorry for the big essay... just spilling my thoughts and opinions

halkar

cfcj wrote: »

.....
If you think tax is outragous here then you need to compare it to other countries, we have a 36% tax to GDP, UK is 39%, Germany is 40% and France is at a whopping 46% so we don't have it too bad. I would be in favour of taxing the rich and reducing the tax on us mere mortal below or at the average national wage, however the reality is the 'Bono factor' where they just uproot and move where they pay less tax, and lets be honest if that was us we would probably do the same.
......

This would not be a good comparision. Does this include the recent levies 2,4,6 % + hidden taxes such as health levy? Also the VAT rates are few percent higher here than comparing to Germany, France (tax after being taxed already !!) . I would not mind paying 50% tax if I am getting same level of health care to countries you are comparing without paying private healtcare, proper education for my kids, proper transport, infrasutructure etc etc. Why should we pay more tax so that government can pay the highest salaries to each other ? What does Cowen do to deserve more than Sarkozy or Merkel? Look at size of Germany and France and see how much they have us bended over in front of them.

Comparing Ireland to Germany-France is like comparing apples to oranges

djpbarry

madser wrote: »

Why is it unrealistic to buy and run a car for the same price as people do in other countries...

What “other countries” are you referring to? Prices vary from country to country for a variety of reasons; tax, demand, production costs, etc. Expecting a car to cost the same in Ireland as it would in say, Spain, is daft.

madser wrote: »

... the fact that you can get a takeaway cheaper in one place or another doesn't take away from the fact that your being ripped off.

Well that depends on what you consider to be a “rip-off”, doesn’t it? Let’s say you owned a takeaway (or some other business); what would you consider to be a reasonable price to charge for a meal and what are you basing that estimate on?

thebman

So isn't insurance going up for a reason though?

Like aren't they doing something with the money they get like investing it in other businesses or expanding which they aren't doing at the moment effecting their bottom line so they increase premiums.

cfcj

Of course you can compare Ireland to other countries in the EU. The figures I gave were a percentage of GDP.

I don't think you can compare our infrastructure or services to far more wealthy and established countries. I don't disagree there is lots of things that need to happen to the health services in Ireland. I think its admirable that you are willing to pay 50% of your pay to getting them up to the same grade as the likes of France or Germany but however I doubt there are many like you and unfortunately a lot of people want something for nothing. I think its a poor argument about Brian Cowan's pay given that it is recommended by an independent body based on the competitive rates in the private sector. And he along with a lot in the public sector have taken a 10% reduction.

Sand

You get ripped off because you pay ripoff prices.

Lets face it, if you were a fast food shop owner and you know that a reasonable price for your food is 10 Euro, but theres plenty of muppets out there who will pay 14 euro....what are you going to charge?

Yeah, 14 euro every time.

Stop payng ripoff prices and suppliers will get the message eventually.

greatdane

just to clear up..i dont drive a 3 litre car...i drive a 1.4 and my insurance went up. So for kicks i just tried to shop around and all the same. I was looking at an older 3litre diesel car as they are cheap in the Uk. I got quotes from ridiculous to non at all...

I didnt buy the takeaway, i went to dunnes and bought it uncooked and cooked it myself...

I drank the pint begrudgingly and moved on to a different bar, was not too much of a diff in the price to be honest.

I picked a few things that were in my head on prices...

some more

jeans - 149 euro tommy jeans,
Burger in Cork City - 10 euro..
taxi - 12 kms - 43 euro - saturday night
muffin in costa coffee - eat in 2.75 , eat out 2.40. (asked for it in a bag and had it inside anyways)

djpbarry

greatdane wrote: »

I picked a few things that were in my head on prices...

some more

jeans - 149 euro tommy jeans,
Burger in Cork City - 10 euro..
taxi - 12 kms - 43 euro - saturday night
muffin in costa coffee - eat in 2.75 , eat out 2.40. (asked for it in a bag and had it inside anyways)

To be honest, I'm not really sure what your point is? Your complaining about the prices of items which you could easily do without (or find a cheaper alternative to). If you don't want to spend €150 on a pair of jeans, then don't - what's the problem?

jmayo

The Insider wrote: »

There was an 8 cent tax increase on petrol in the October Budget.

Any budget duty increase on fuel is affective immediately i.e. from 12 midnight on night of budget.

The prices have creeped up from 106 to 120 for petrol at two Topaz stations I know in Wicklow since the budget.
You pass in the morning, it might be 110 and by evening it is 111 :rolleyes:

thebman

My car is a luxury really and I use it for social reasons only so I just didn't bother renewing my insurance since they are trying to charge me a crap load for insurance when I now have a years no claims.

All of them are doing it. Talking over a 100 euro difference with most companies over last year if I had any no claims last year as I put it into some of the systems just for a laugh last year.

That is a lot of money if you consider they are trying to do it to all their customers.

madser

djpbarry wrote: »

To be honest, I'm not really sure what your point is? Your complaining about the prices of items which you could easily do without (or find a cheaper alternative to). If you don't want to spend €150 on a pair of jeans, then don't - what's the problem?

Why do you keep tellin us we can do without things and shop around, we gettin ripped off, of course you can get a pair of jeans in pennys for a lot less that tommy hillfiger, but you can buy the same tommy hillfiger in UK or the US for a fraction of the price even taken into consideration VAT and other costs. I priced a leather jacket in Ted Baker in Dublin, it was 425 euro and when I peeled back the sticker the UK price was 295 pounds, and before you tell me not to be buyin an expensive jacket, its not the shop around thread or the only but essentials thread its the being ripped off thread. Again can you address peoples points instead of lecturing them

thebman

Yes but the point is if everyone stopped paying 425 euro they wouldn't charge that much.

You asked why are we still being ripped off, well its because people are still willing to pay 425 euro for a Ted Baker jacket in Dublin that only costs £295 in the UK.

So the solution is to shop around and buy the Penny's jeans and encourage other people you know to do the same until enough customers turn away from their store and its rip off prices that they start to get the message.

Can't expect the problem to magically disappear on its own.

madser

thebman wrote: »

Yes but the point is if everyone stopped paying 425 euro they wouldn't charge that much.

You asked why are we still being ripped off, well its because people are still willing to pay 425 euro for a Ted Baker jacket in Dublin that only costs £295 in the UK.

So the solution is to shop around and buy the Penny's jeans and encourage other people you know to do the same until enough customers turn away from their store and its rip off prices that they start to get the message.

Can't expect the problem to magically disappear on its own.

No the answer is to buy online, I wouldn't buy a jacket with that difference in price but the question and thread is about being ripped off, Ireland is a rip and shopping around just doesn't cut it anymore, why do we pay extra money to the goverment for the privilge of having a credit card or I have to pay VRT if I want to buy a new car, I can't shop around for those things, I should be able to buy Tommy Hilfiger jeans here without being ripped off.

P. Breathnach

madser wrote: »

... I should be able to buy Tommy Hilfiger jeans here without being ripped off.

That's a bit of a contradiction in terms. Designer labels are simply another form of rip-off, albeit one to which many people voluntarily submit themselves.

madser

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's a bit of a contradiction in terms. Designer labels are simply another form of rip-off, albeit one to which many people voluntarily submit themselves.

But why can't I buy designer labels at the same price as the UK for example, why does it have to be a huge difference in this country.

thebman

madser wrote: »

But why can't I buy designer labels at the same price as the UK for example, why does it have to be a huge difference in this country.

Cost of doing business, taxes, wages, cost of transport and currency differences among others I'm sure.

madser

thebman wrote: »

Cost of doing business, taxes, wages, cost of transport and currency differences among others I'm sure.

even taking all that into account, theres a disproportionate difference.

The fact that the prices are being cut by 10 to 20 per cent in a lot of UK based clothes and shoe shops shows that the mark up on these items were excessive.

Noffles

I'm still baffled why people think that buying Irish is a good idea, it's notably more expensive and there are alternatives...

maninasia

cfcj wrote: »

Of course you can compare Ireland to other countries in the EU. The figures I gave were a percentage of GDP.

I don't think you can compare our infrastructure or services to far more wealthy and established countries. I don't disagree there is lots of things that need to happen to the health services in Ireland. I think its admirable that you are willing to pay 50% of your pay to getting them up to the same grade as the likes of France or Germany but however I doubt there are many like you and unfortunately a lot of people want something for nothing. I think its a poor argument about Brian Cowan's pay given that it is recommended by an independent body based on the competitive rates in the private sector. And he along with a lot in the public sector have taken a 10% reduction.

No but you can compare it to other small countries in Europe or even pooer countries such as Portugal or Greece which have subways even in their second tier cities.
Brian Cowen's pay for a small country that is close to bankruptcy is ridiculous.

Another poster mentioned what's the point of laying off public sector workers as written on the Fine Gael website (I have no affiliation). Broadly the idea would be to get public spending down so there is no need to keep increasing taxes on PAYE workers. Each public workers is subsidised by X number of private sector workers, it's simple math. Increasing taxes hits productive workers and means employers have to pay more to keep their best employees happy. Increasing taxes means taking money out of the economy instead of contributing to it. Increasing taxes also means increased emigration.

Tax and spend economies work fine for government but won't encourage new business formation, job formation or foreign investment in Ireland. Low tax and competitive wages will do all the above however and the take home pay of workers will be the same, goods and services will cost less without the additional tax burden and we can reduce unemployment and give everybody a chance to be productive in their lives.

maninasia

thebman wrote: »

Cost of doing business, taxes, wages, cost of transport and currency differences among others I'm sure.

It's economy of scale, UK has 60 million people and dominated by massive retail chains which can get better deals for suppliers. Irish companies may either increase their scale by selling into other markets or source from suppliers directly and cut out the middle man on non-UK sourced products.

djpbarry

madser wrote: »

But why can't I buy designer labels at the same price as the UK for example, why does it have to be a huge difference in this country.

Because, as has been pointed out to you several times now, people in this country have been prepared to pay a lot more than their UK counterparts. Hence, retailers have increased their prices (although the price of clothing has declined quite significantly over the last 12 months, according to the CSO). If people refuse to pay the higher prices, then retailers will be forced to lower their asking price (which seems to be occurring).

jimmmy

maninasia wrote: »

Brian Cowen's pay for a small country that is close to bankruptcy is ridiculous.

Another poster mentioned what's the point of laying off public sector workers as written on the Fine Gael website (I have no affiliation). Broadly the idea would be to get public spending down so there is no need to keep increasing taxes on PAYE workers. Each public workers is subsidised by X number of private sector workers, it's simple math. Increasing taxes hits productive workers and means employers have to pay more to keep their best employees happy.

Well said. The elephant in the room is public service spending....what the govt pays itself and its employees.

That is the real rip off. People have a choice where to buy their designer jeans, or not to buy them at all. People have no choice that our public servants are the highest paid in Europe ( + probably the world )....at the cost of our govt finances / borrowings our children + grandchildren will have to pay back, with interest.

solice

maninasia wrote: »

Another poster mentioned what's the point of laying off public sector workers as written on the Fine Gael website (I have no affiliation). Broadly the idea would be to get public spending down so there is no need to keep increasing taxes on PAYE workers. Each public workers is subsidised by X number of private sector workers, it's simple math. Increasing taxes hits productive workers and means employers have to pay more to keep their best employees happy. Increasing taxes means taking money out of the economy instead of contributing to it. Increasing taxes also means increased emigration.

I agree with cutting the numbers inthe public sector, my personal opinion is that it is bloated and top heavy with management.

But cutting people from the public service without thinking it through will put more pressure on the economy in the longer term. You will be forcing people on to the Dole and with the way the country is they would find it difficult to get off the Dole, their skills drop and before you know it, they will be on CE schemes and still costing the tax payer.

I think this recruitment freeze is a good way to go, it is getting rid of people close to retirement, therby cutting down on the high number of people in management. The proposed introduction of tax on the lump sum will cull a few thousand more. I would hope when the lift the recruitment ban they introduce a tough guideline for recruitment, only putting people where they are actually required and not just bump the numbers back up to where they are now. The result would be a leaner public service, whether or not it would be more efficient, well that is down to the people doing the job.

In terms of things big more expensive here...as a country we were all very happy spending over the odds on items over the last 10 years. Just look at houses, we all knew that the costs of houses 3 years ago was ridiculous but that didnt stop us. Its like we had money and we just had to spend it regardless of the value that we were getting. I think retailers took oadvantage of that in the past and they dont want to reverse it too easily.

In saying that, I think there is an onus on Irish people now to hunt down the bargain and that might just mean going to the farmers market instead of marks & spencers.

Also, I think our minimum wage is too high, despite what the unions are saying it is inhibiting growth in terms of attracting foreign investment and maintianing what we have. Why would a company continue to employ people here when it costs them €10 an hour when they can go to eastern europe €2 per hour or China for €0.70 per hour? You might say that we wouldnt want companies here that can do x, y and z in China for far less, well fact remains there are people in this country that are not qualified to work in other types of jobs and the govt needs to provide them with a living just as much as the people working in R&D and in the IFSC.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

Well said. The elephant in the room is public service spending....what the govt pays itself and its employees.

That is the real rip off. People have a choice where to buy their designer jeans, or not to buy them at all. People have no choice that our public servants are the highest paid in Europe ( + probably the world )....at the cost of our govt finances / borrowings our children + grandchildren will have to pay back, with interest.

jimmmy, you are the elephant in many rooms on this forum, trampling on every discussion to vent again and again about public service pay. It's pretty well a non-sequitur in the context of retail prices, but you try to force it in anyway.

Why not limit your interventions to threads on public service pay, or on the public finances?

madser

djpbarry wrote: »

Because, as has been pointed out to you several times now, people in this country have been prepared to pay a lot more than their UK counterparts. Hence, retailers have increased their prices (although the price of clothing has declined quite significantly over the last 12 months, according to the CSO). If people refuse to pay the higher prices, then retailers will be forced to lower their asking price (which seems to be occurring).

There has been an huge decress in peoples spending on everything including expensive items and even though some things have been reduced, they haven't been reduced by nearly enough hence the whole reason for this thread 'why are we still being ripped off '