why are we still being ripped off

djpbarry

madser wrote: »

There has been an huge decress in peoples spending on everything including expensive items and even though some things have been reduced, they haven't been reduced by nearly enough...

Define "enough".

Mr.Micro

I for one buy certain goods online or in the UK. I bought an AV amp Sept 2008 for £600 yet the same item here was 2400 euro. Some retailers here still charge 1.5 times the sterling price. So I refuse to pay rip off prices and even with delivery cost from the UK I still get the items cheaper.

thebman

maninasia wrote: »

It's economy of scale, UK has 60 million people and dominated by massive retail chains which can get better deals for suppliers. Irish companies may either increase their scale by selling into other markets or source from suppliers directly and cut out the middle man on non-UK sourced products.

Some of it is economies of scale but a lot of it is still Irish companies being unwilling to give up adding on a little for themselves.

You can see it all around, they don't want hard sales or anything like that. No retailer is willing to start it off it seems.

Economies of scale is obviously a factor but although we can never have the same price as the UK, we can get and should expect lower prices than we are currently paying.

cfcj

It was me also that mentioned that Fine Gael had proposed a reduction in public sector jobs, my point was on the effect that would have on employment and their proposal that doing that would enable them to create jobs... seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul politics. Also their proposal would be to give tax breaks to employers that take on extra people. If you don't have the work to give people how can you take extra people on and yes there might be a tax incentive but its short lived as the biggest cost to any employer is their actual wage.

I question peoples priorities... I'm more disgusted at the amount of money the government now has to pay to clean up the 'fly tipping' sites in Northern Ireland. These people who dumped their rubbish, through absolute ignorance and disregard for anyone, sums up to me a really ugly streak that is developing within our culture. So before people start replying and justifying their actions saying that the price of this and that lead them to do it, I would say there is NO justification for causing this on our neighbours. There is hardly any reaction to the cost to clear this up yet it will run into millions, way above what people in top jobs get rewarded for doing their job. Absolute mindless waste of public funds... but who cares that much about the economy, is it just about how much the latest imported jacket from Ted Baker costs?

We are in a world recession for those that seem to be stuck somewhere head deep in sand. As far as I can see nobody forces anyone to buy these things... houses included! And if you bought a house way above your means and are mortgaged to the hilt and unable to meet the repayments then you took a risk and it didn't pay off. Looking over these posts I am confused what people are actually angry about.. is is the capitalist system we are in or is it that they are suffering a little bit of withdrawal symptoms from the boom years. Sure public sector have it easier and more secure than the private sector and thats always going to be the case as long as there is a union hold, thats not to say I disagree with unions. However arguing over these things is fruitless cause they aren't going to change. What needs to change is the direction our economy is going. We have had the boost out of a complete dark age of 3rd world proportions through EU membership, multi-nationals & the service sector but we need to start producing home grown and securing our wealth. I keep mentioning it but we HAVE to decrease our dependance on imports. The national debt is a reality for every country and yes I think we should be tackling it now rather than leaving it for future generations. Companies like Waterford Crystal should have been rescued with the same determination as was shown with the banks, this is where I believe the government has made mistakes but enough with the penny wise and pound foolish mentality.

Fighting Irish

I don't own a business but if i did i'd keep prices as high as i could if people still paid those prices
Nobody is looking out for you, except for maybe one person, but the majority of times that one person is dumb

thebman

cfcj wrote: »

It was me also that mentioned that Fine Gael had proposed a reduction in public sector jobs, my point was on the effect that would have on employment and their proposal that doing that would enable them to create jobs... seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul politics. Also their proposal would be to give tax breaks to employers that take on extra people. If you don't have the work to give people how can you take extra people on and yes there might be a tax incentive but its short lived as the biggest cost to any employer is their actual wage.

I question peoples priorities... I'm more disgusted at the amount of money the government now has to pay to clean up the 'fly tipping' sites in Northern Ireland. These people who dumped their rubbish, through absolute ignorance and disregard for anyone, sums up to me a really ugly streak that is developing within our culture. So before people start replying and justifying their actions saying that the price of this and that lead them to do it, I would say there is NO justification for causing this on our neighbours. There is hardly any reaction to the cost to clear this up yet it will run into millions, way above what people in top jobs get rewarded for doing their job. Absolute mindless waste of public funds... but who cares that much about the economy, is it just about how much the latest imported jacket from Ted Baker costs?

We are in a world recession for those that seem to be stuck somewhere head deep in sand. As far as I can see nobody forces anyone to buy these things... houses included! And if you bought a house way above your means and are mortgaged to the hilt and unable to meet the repayments then you took a risk and it didn't pay off. Looking over these posts I am confused what people are actually angry about.. is is the capitalist system we are in or is it that they are suffering a little bit of withdrawal symptoms from the boom years. Sure public sector have it easier and more secure than the private sector and thats always going to be the case as long as there is a union hold, thats not to say I disagree with unions. However arguing over these things is fruitless cause they aren't going to change. What needs to change is the direction our economy is going. We have had the boost out of a complete dark age of 3rd world proportions through EU membership, multi-nationals & the service sector but we need to start producing home grown and securing our wealth. I keep mentioning it but we HAVE to decrease our dependance on imports. The national debt is a reality for every country and yes I think we should be tackling it now rather than leaving it for future generations. Companies like Waterford Crystal should have been rescued with the same determination as was shown with the banks, this is where I believe the government has made mistakes but enough with the penny wise and pound foolish mentality.

There are plenty of companies that can have work and need to take on people that aren't because they are being cautious and its easier to make existing staff work overtime for free then hire people now that the employment market has changed.

So there is room for jobs in the market but companies don't want to take on people if they can get away with not doing it. FG are trying to create incentives for companies to take on people.

Not a bad idea IMO. If companies really can't afford to take on people they won't in which case the scheme will cost nothing since nobody will be taken on.

cfcj

What staff are working for free???? Can you name one of these companies teethering on the brink of recruiting just dying for a little incentive?

No company in the private sector employ people for the greater good of the economy. They hire based on the needs of the business. I guarantee you that if u speak with the vast majority of companies they are working on very tight cost to sales ratios and are actively looking for ways to control unneccessary spending which in some cases have been redundancies and short time working week programmes. Even the idea of drawing up such a plan just shows how out of touch Fine Gael are, through presenting a policy that has absolutely no merits.

I hope you are not naive to think it won't cost anything to impliment such a proposal. Fine Gael by their own admission plan to pay for this though cuts in the public sector so if we don't have any avail of the scheme we have an even more inflated unemployment figure and wasted money to boot, Fine Gael are not helping with a blind unthoughtout shot in the dark designed to soundbite around the media giving the illusion to the electorate that they are making credible suggestions.


If it was such a good idea how come IBEC or ISME (who the proposal is aimed at) haven't endorsed it and haven't urged the government for it's immediate implementation?

thebman

cfcj wrote: »

What staff are working for free???? Can you name one of these companies teethering on the brink of recruiting just dying for a little incentive?

No company in the private sector employ people for the greater good of the economy. They hire based on the needs of the business. I guarantee you that if u speak with the vast majority of companies they are working on very tight cost to sales ratios and are actively looking for ways to control unneccessary spending which in some cases have been redundancies and short time working week programmes. Even the idea of drawing up such a plan just shows how out of touch Fine Gael are, through presenting a policy that has absolutely no merits.

Never suggested companies hire for the greater good of the economy. Not saying staff are working for free but working overtime for free. I could name several but why bother. I don't think you actually understood anything I said TBH and I couldn't be arsed saying it again.

I hope you are not naive to think it won't cost anything to impliment such a proposal. Fine Gael by their own admission plan to pay for this though cuts in the public sector so if we don't have any avail of the scheme we have an even more inflated unemployment figure and wasted money to boot, Fine Gael are not helping with a blind unthoughtout shot in the dark designed to soundbite around the media giving the illusion to the electorate that they are making credible suggestions.


If it was such a good idea how come IBEC or ISME (who the proposal is aimed at) haven't endorsed it and haven't urged the government for it's immediate implementation?

Lol your logic is no company would go for it so it won't cost anything if no company goes for it so you have nothing to worry about was my point there. If companies pick up on it then it will cost.

cfcj

LOL, maybe you were the author of Fine Gael's policies... is working overtime for free not the same as any work for free? I don't presume you understand that you understand anything about the economy from any of the comments you have made and thats your personal struggle, far be it for me to make a judgement on that.

lmimmfn

I like how beer bottles are constantly getting smaller and smaller lol, last year 20bottles of Stella in Tesco were ~22euro, this year its 22euro but the bottles have gone from 330ml to 300ml lol, bargain that

Mr.Micro

lmimmfn wrote: »

I like how beer bottles are constantly getting smaller and smaller lol, last year 20bottles of Stella in Tesco were ~22euro, this year its 22euro but the bottles have gone from 330ml to 300ml lol, bargain that

Meat packed in 400g packs used to be 454g in Dunnes . Beers in Tesco were 10 bottle packs now 8, alcohol was 5% now 4.9 etc but prices the same or more for less. All the supermarkets passing off cra**y miserable small vegetables with an expensive price. A lot of short dated stuff as well. We are on to the rip off merchants.

djpbarry

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Meat packed in 400g packs used to be 454g in Dunnes .
...
All the supermarkets passing off cra**y miserable small vegetables with an expensive price.

There's much better quality to be had in fruit & veg., butchers, etc., and it's often cheaper too. If you're not happy with what's on offer in supermarkets, then don't shop there.

cfcj

Tesco announces its group sales performance today, 12.6% growth for the first quarter of its financial year. According to the Irish Independant they haven't broken down the Irish market contribution but have commented calling it a 'drag'. Workers in 19 locations are going on strike in 2 weeks over working hours and they have masked price cuts in a number of their stores ditching local produce in favour of cheaper UK imports. Time to ask ourselves what the point is having them here?? I'm certainly boycotting this disgusting company that seems to be just bundling money out of the country without even the pretense of regard for the Irish economy. A true rip off for the economy. Who knows maybe soon robots will be stocking the shelves, they are already starting with the self service tills. Keep jobs, as rubbish as Dunnes can be thats where I'm shopping if for no other reason to help keep the staff in their jobs.

djpbarry

cfcj wrote: »

Tesco announces its group sales performance today...
...
Time to ask ourselves what the point is having them here??

Competition?

You think Tesco leaving the Irish market would be a good thing?

cfcj

Tesco Group has to be one of the most uncompetitive companies and are renowned and reported in the UK for deliberately flooding the market with Tesco extra, Tesco Local and Tesco Central stores in order to dominate and kill off any competition. In Dundalk & Drogheda they have two large stores, completely unnecessary for the size of the market and in Dundalk Superquin have already left. I'm sure this is the case in other towns. Ireland historically has a good grocery competitive trade long before Tesco re-entered the market, price wars in the 80s that lead to the, now removed, 'no below cost selling law'. I seriously cannot find anything positive for their presence in the market. Tesco are misleading in their price cuts as they cut money off the likes of bread, milk and meat... turning to the local (now ex local) suppliers and cutting the price they have paid for them themselves and then hike up the price of cosmetics, cleaning dog food etc so its less reported on these items. I think if you truly examine Tesco practices you will be disgusted at their company also... and thats before looking at their child labour manufactured clothing.

Tesco is only reducing the prices in some of its border towns because they have a minimal presence in the now buoyant Northern Ireland market and have lost out on trade. If they were committed to the Irish customer they would have rolled out the price cuts to the whole of the country. I think consumers should have social responsibility and if you have any loyalty to supporting Irish produce and jobs you should seriously think about where you shop and end this greed at all cost attitude.

Mr.Micro

cfcj wrote: »

Ireland historically has a good grocery competitive trade long before Tesco re-entered the market

I have to disagree there. There was no real effective competition in Ireland in the grocery sector. Maybe a little in the cities but not elsewhere. It is only with the likes of Lidl and Aldi that some competition has ensued IMO.

I do agree that Tesco and the likes want it all like the Walmarts of this world and will sell groceries, hardware, alcohol, insurance, credit cards, bank, mobile phone top ups, the lot and only the toughest survive its purchasing power. Superquinn just threw the towel in once any competition arrived. Whatever about Tesco it offers choice and variety something which was lacking in the grey Ireland of the past.

lmimmfn

I only ever shop in Tesco if i desperate or theres nowhere else open. SuperValue while more expensive have fantastic staff, even saw a job advertisement last November and one of the main requirements was to be polite and cheerful. Tesco is dull, dreary, overpriced( especially for alcohol ). Dunnes isint too bad, but they rarely have any decent offers.

Recently ive been doing booze shopping + food up north( never ever in Tescos ), but i get meat at one of the local non supermarket butchers and support the local fruit and veg shops, also i go out of my way to support the local fish mongers as we dont have enough in ireland and its a service i highly appreciate.

Tescos can rot in hell for all i care, wouldnt even care if all prices went up 5% because of it( but most definately dont want any more job losses ), hate them with a passion.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Whatever about Tesco it offers choice and variety something which was lacking in the grey Ireland of the past.

Seriously you must be kidding, Tescos are the laziest most useless supermarket when it comes to variety, several times i asked the manager in the local Tescos for things like Capers, response=Oh we stopped selling those, they also stopped selling Staroprammen for at least 6 months around 2 years ago and when they did start stocking it it was 330ml bottles only and for some reason was insanely sweet. The local Tescos never has Shaws sausages( one of the only sausages to have 90%+ pork ), they dont have Clonakilty puddings, they rarely have fresh herbs, nice Parmesan cheese, and their bakery stuff is utter crap( try Supervalue for absolutely excellent fresh soft bread ).

Of course other supermarkets are crap in other ways too, but its just that you pointed out tescos as offering choice and variety. In ireland in the 80's we were only following the UK market, there was very little you could buy in the north that wasnt available in the south. All the new things you can get now are not a result of Tescos theyre a result of the uk market changing their diets and hence we indirectly reap the benefits from that. Go into any supermarket on the continent and you will see a huge array of fruit and veg that is not available in Ireland or the Uk, also, a lot of frozen ready to oven cook things on the continent are absolutely fantastic( try frozen Lasagna from a Champion supermarket in France for one of the best ).

cfcj

In response to Mr.Micro: I think that with the size of our population and given the mix of Dunnes, Quinnsworth/Crazy Prices, Superquinn and the local traiders we had some healthy and FAIR competition pre Tesco. I dont believe Lidl and Aldi have brought anything but competition to their own sort of niche, both having the same business model with a very low margin threshold.

I have to say I totally agree with lmimmfn's post, especially the package that the likes of Supervalue and local traiders have to offer. I have lived in the UK for 7years and that I'm back I'm amazed at how much the country has changed and the new infrastructure and what seems like a land of opportunity... but then massive negativity and this feeling of 'hard done by'. This fixation with everything from the UK is like a popular new religion (Dundrum is the main shrine). I think we have sold our soul a little and time to get pride back and end this rip off Ireland that Tesco and friends are doing.

I really would love analysis by these economists on the impact of the news of Walmart's possible entry to the Irish market. ASDA has expressed interest in opening a giant store on a green field site in Dundalk. In terms of the balance is wise to let another brand in to kill off more local traders... and does the jobs advantages get smothered by the profits leaving the country. ASDA isn't a company to get excited about in my opinion (sort of the Ryanair of retailing), they are as cold hearted as Tesco, if not worse and like said have come into criticism of their bullying of suppliers.

The local council has of course welcomed it on the jobs front, but the town, like many up and down the country, is abundant with empty premises and the there is a fairly new site recently vacated by Superquinn.

As consumers we have ownership on how these companies treat us. We should refuse to be bullied by these cloned companies that are palming us off with substandard produce and service then dressing it up as 'competition'. I think we have it all wrong... if you are buying 'multi-deals' in Tesco and end up with more waste than before wouldn't you rather buy better quality and a better diverse range of food in the likes of Superquinn at a slightly higher price without buying the excess that is wasted?

djpbarry

cfcj wrote: »

Ireland historically has a good grocery competitive trade long before Tesco re-entered the market…

I’m not sure about that, but anyway. How can the presence of an additional outlet reduce competition?

cfcj wrote: »

If they were committed to the Irish customer they would have rolled out the price cuts to the whole of the country.

“Committed to the Irish customer”? What? They’re a business, designed to make money and they make money because lots of people shop in Tesco (and will probably continue to do so, despite your objections).

lmimmfn wrote: »

Tescos can rot in hell for all i care, wouldnt even care if all prices went up 5% because of it…

I think you’d find that the majority of people in this country would disagree.

lmimmfn wrote: »

…Tescos are the laziest most useless supermarket when it comes to variety…

Then don’t shop there.

cfcj wrote: »

I think we have it all wrong... if you are buying 'multi-deals' in Tesco and end up with more waste than before wouldn't you rather buy better quality and a better diverse range of food in the likes of Superquinn at a slightly higher price without buying the excess that is wasted?

More people shop in Tesco than Superquinn because Tesco is cheaper. Simple as.

jimmmy

cfcj wrote: »

I think consumers should have social responsibility and if you have any loyalty to supporting Irish produce and jobs you should seriously think about where you shop and end this greed at all cost attitude.

All the more reason not to support lidl and aldi ....many of their suppliers are in Germany / Poland / China...so when you buy there the money goes thousands of miles away....to think nothing of the carbon footprint.

lmimmfn

djpbarry wrote: »

I think you’d find that the majority of people in this country would disagree.

good for them

djpbarry wrote: »

Then don’t shop there.

I dont, if you read my post, doesnt stop me having an opinion on them

Mr.Micro

lmimmfn wrote: »

Tescos can rot in hell for all i care, wouldnt even care if all prices went up 5% because of it( but most definately dont want any more job losses ), hate them with a passion.

Seriously you must be kidding, Tescos are the laziest most useless supermarket when it comes to variety, several times i asked the manager in the local Tescos for things like Capers, response=Oh we stopped selling those, they also stopped selling Staroprammen for at least 6 months around 2 years ago and when they did start stocking it it was 330ml bottles only and for some reason was insanely sweet. The local Tescos never has Shaws sausages( one of the only sausages to have 90%+ pork ), they dont have Clonakilty puddings, they rarely have fresh herbs, nice Parmesan cheese, and their bakery stuff is utter crap( try Supervalue for absolutely excellent fresh soft bread ).

Variety and choice compared to the past. You appear to have a vast number of supermarkets to choose from other than Tesco. If it was not for the likes of Tesco then Dunnes and Superquinn would not have to compete and just have a cozy little cartel supplying the basic groceries. As regards capers and things it is clearly because there is little or no demand here in Ireland for such items, and none of the other stores are that good either when it comes to real culinary ingredients. As regards Supervalu they are hit and miss. I was in a good one yesterday in Wellingtonbridge Co wexford but the one local to me is terrible fruit goes off quickly and the owner does not pass on offers promoted by the Supervalu group. Tesco set the standard like it or not.

cfcj

My point is that Tesco operate unfair competition. There is absolutely no evidence that any 'cosy cartel' happened at any time with the supermarkets. Tesco have thankfully not set any market standards and the sooner their customers realise the damage they are doing shopping in such a place the better. The damage being more and more money leaving Ireland, inflating corporate profits for shareholders who don't live here. Thus a rip off to us Irish.

You can't seriously say that you dont have concern over this... maybe you don't really care about the bigger picture that much and don't really care if Ireland's 'drip' economy is able to sustain or not. In my opinion its basic housekeeping budget stuff... not enough income and more outgoings. Maybe you would see pleasure in the collapse of our economy, if you don't please give ideas where Ireland won't get ripped off. Surely getting even more cosy with the dissipated UK isn't the way forward.

I have confidence that if the vast majority of Irish consumers were presented with the facts about the likes of Tesco and the damage they are doing to the economy they would stand up to them and refuse to be sold out.

Of course companies the size of Tesco have responsibilities to their local environment, We should not simply live, but live well with conduct governed by moderate virtue. Maybe fueling a change in Irish culture to a greed ridden society and away from our traditional moral core is the standard Tesco is setting?

Fat_Fingers

I dont care about Tesco or any other chain, i shop where i see value for money.

Tesco does not operate "unfair" competition. Tesco is a business like any other trying to eliminate its competitors for bigger slice of market. Dont blame Tesco , its up to the Government to regulate the market but as part of the EU they have no power over that as it can be seen protectionist and that is a big no no.

Sorry you got me with your last like "traditional moral core" as in politicians been corrupt to the bone, off shore accounts, priests beating and buggering kids and everyone knowing about it but doing nothing about it? Surely you dont mean we need to go back to that traditional moral core?

cfcj

what an absolute daft comment!!! Thankfully we don't live in a nanny state where the government is responsible for everything we do. Talk about blinkered vision... maybe stop getting your information from gossip and trashy tabloid newspapers. The traditional moral core that I was talking about was in relation to the fact that we used to care about eachother and would look out for your neighbour.

What has child abuse got to do in this context???

I think I would rather our set of politicians to that of the truly corrupt politicians in other countries, especially the British & Italian ones! Stop blaming the government for eveything and maybe take a bit of ownership yourself.

djpbarry

cfcj wrote: »

My point is that Tesco operate unfair competition.

How so? Are they engaged in illegal activity?

cfcj wrote: »

Tesco have thankfully not set any market standards and the sooner their customers realise the damage they are doing shopping in such a place the better. The damage being more and more money leaving Ireland, inflating corporate profits for shareholders who don't live here.

That argument could be used against most of the retailers in this country. I don’t see why I should spend more on something just to support an Irish supplier. If they want my business, they have to earn it.

cfcj wrote: »

You can't seriously say that you dont have concern over this... maybe you don't really care about the bigger picture that much and don't really care if Ireland's 'drip' economy is able to sustain or not.

You are advocating protectionism, i.e. prioritising Irish produce. How exactly will that benefit the economy when it will reduce competition?

cfcj wrote: »

I have confidence that if the vast majority of Irish consumers were presented with the facts about the likes of Tesco and the damage they are doing to the economy they would stand up to them and refuse to be sold out.

Which facts are these?

cfcj

I think if you read my earlier posts about Tesco strategy it explains their unfair global competitive practices. I think if you look at Channel 4's dispatches show 'Tesco - The Supermarket that's eating Britain' and read the argument by campaigners such as Tescopoly.

I'm not in any way advocating protectionism by the state, in fact I don't believe that the government should or would act in this way. I am advocating that we protect jobs and I am advocating that we start producing more and importing less for a sustainable future.

jimmmy

cfcj wrote: »

I am advocating that we protect jobs and I am advocating that we start producing more and importing less for a sustainable future.

So you think we should support our local small shops and producers rather than the likes of lidl and aldi, who import from many of their suppliers in Germany / Poland / China etc ?

PCPhoto

greatdane wrote: »

I really thought that this down turn or Recession would help bring all prices down but als we are still being ripped off.

1) Car insurance, mine went up this year, im 33 and no claims, full license and insurance since 18. shopped around all the same.

had a look today at other cars, ok they have come down in price but go and try insure anything with a sport badge and you are quickly punished or if you try online you get a "cannot insure you at this time" WTF - if i want insure a 3litre car i should be able to do it... without remortgaging

sorry for the rant.

The reason is .... BECAUSE THE NEED FOR GREED IS BIGGER THEN THE NEED FOR SPEED !!!

Sorry - I thought of it and had to reply

cfcj

Jimmmy I believe in a free European market and I believe people should have the choice to shop where they want. I also believe we need to compete in this market and sustain our economy. I don't believe that one supermarket should control and manipulate through misleading and underhanded tactics.

If you look at the statistics on the CSO site http://www.cso.ie/statistics/botrade.htm and notice from 2002 our trade surplus has been reducing. Maybe coincidential with the introduction of the Euro? In regards to getting ripped off I would rather we get compaired with prices in the Eurozone and truely understand what is being paid with the same currency by our counterparts.