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why are we still being ripped off
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It matters little whether you are for government protectionism or want consumer protectionism ,you are advocating protectionism of Irish retailers because they won't/can't compete.0
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Again you embarrass yourself with your lack of basic economic knowledge. Protectionism is a term used when states protect the home market with high levels of import duty and general anti-globalisation measures that hinder free trade by restricting or regulating trade with other nations. The government can and should help Irish business compete with imports and foreign businesses as their respective governments can and do for them. What is consumer protectionism??0
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The damage being more and more money leaving Ireland, inflating corporate profits for shareholders who don't live here. Thus a rip off to us Irish.
What about all the multinationals that are here in Ireland that use us as means to pay less corporate tax, including earnings in other countries eg the US. Most of this leaves our country. Obama is sorting this and Ireland was named as one the countries.Surely getting even more cosy with the dissipated UK isn't the way forward.
Our economy was non existent in the past. Tesco and the likes provide employment and services. What stopped us from doing the same in the past??? We were glad to go to the UK for a job any job.I have confidence that if the vast majority of Irish consumers were presented with the facts about the likes of Tesco and the damage they are doing to the economy they would stand up to them and refuse to be sold out.
Ireland has become globalized as we appear to have been unable to create our own industries and consumer outlets and many foreign countries saw the opportunities in Ireland often helped by grants from the Government. Is it their fault that they are now a success in Ireland? People do not really care as long as they get what they want. More choice cannot be bad. The doors for globalization of our country were opened by politicians, no point in complaining now.
Of course companies the size of Tesco have responsibilities to their local environment, We should not simply live, but live well with conduct governed by moderate virtue. Maybe fueling a change in Irish culture to a greed g?
ridden society and away from our traditional moral core is the standard Tesco is setting
If you are going to single out Tesco then add all the other retailers as well , and all the greedy developers in Ireland who have ruined our country with tens of thousands of houses many unoccupied.0 -
Again you embarrass yourself with your lack of basic economic knowledge. Protectionism is a term used when states protect the home market with high levels of import duty and general anti-globalisation measures that hinder free trade by restricting or regulating trade with other nations. The government can and should help Irish business compete with imports and foreign businesses as their respective governments can and do for them. What is consumer protectionism??
Consumer protectionism would be requesting people buy Irish despite having better value elsewhere.
It doesn't make any sense to say it isn't a form of protectionism. What would you call it other than a form of protectionism? It may not be government protectionism as defined by economics but it is a another form of protectionism to try to bias people more toward Irish goods and ask them to buy them even if they are more expensive and uncompetitive compared to their competitors. Basically marketing that people should buy Irish even if it isn't the best value must be considered a form of protectionism regardless of the economics definition of protectionism as it suggests that people buy Irish to protect Irish businesses over buying from foreign companies competing with Irish companies.
If Irish businesses cannot compete in Ireland they are crap and deserve to go under.
They are that pathetic that they can't even compete in their domestic market! We can only hope they adapt or new companies with better business strategies take their place.0 -
I have repeated the same thing again and again, I am in favour of free trade, the EU and non protectionism. It is I am advocating that we start fending for ourselves to prevent a total catastrophe if the multi-nationals pull out of Ireland. I think it was the right decision to get them in and create much needed jobs at the time but we are too heavily reliant on the export that the multi-nationals generate for the country and there is very little home grown. Of course I think Tesco in particular is a disgusting company that is doing little more than draining money from the country. Sure there are others out there like Argos, Debenhams, and a lot of the UK high street chains that have sprouted up in shopping centres and out of town retail parks creating the same cloning that is going on in the UK high streets and making our town centres vacant. I have particularly singled out Tesco because they have numerous complaints about how they deal with their suppliers, complaints from staff and just their bullying attitude to expand. They already control more than half of all retail in the UK getting there by unethical means and they will do that here too if allowed. They are not supporters of competition or have no allegiance to the customer or staff. I have also mentioned in an earlier post that I don't agree that housing and transport should be profitable entities but as this is the market we are in this is how it pans out, it equally pains me that speculation occurs on housing and currency. The reality is that no politician is going to change that and we have to accept it but I agree that with greed these developers have caused lots of problems, primarily that many people along with their families cannot get on the property ladder or have been repossessed because of the inflationary prices they paid for their home.0
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thebman: Clearly you have another agenda for your comments. The result in not supporting local and Irish produce would be the collapse of the economy if some of our multi-national friends pull out. This attitude of 'I want it cheaper at all cost' is very selfish to the rest of us. Basically you want imports cheaper.... I suggest you go and live in the UK then! They are always going to be more expensive here with shipping costs and the extra they slap on for good luck. I for one am proud to support local and try help keep people in a job if that is your definition for 'protectionism' then thats what I'm guilty of.... such a crime eh!0
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What issues? If a 3-litre car is too expensive too run, then get a smaller car. If the cost of a takeaway is getting too high, then stop eating takeaways (or at least shop around a little). If the price of a pint has gotten too high, then stop going to the pub so often (or again, shop around a little).
I don't know how much difference that will make. I've been hearing this shop around business for years here in Dublin and really you don't have a lot of choice. In relation to pubs it doesn't matter because it's basically a cartel and prices are set more or less. That's maybe going to change as places go out of business more and more. I know a bar manager whose owner keeps asking him why there is no business in his pub. He tells the owner that everyone is going to the off license (you get ripped off a little less there) because prices are to high in the pub...yet he refuses to lower the prices in the pub.0 -
Again, Tesco is a business designed to generate profits. Same as Dunnes. Same as Super Valu. What exactly do you expect from these places?Of course I think Tesco in particular is a disgusting company that is doing little more than draining money from the country.
What sort of complaints? How about producing some evidence for your case against Tesco?I have particularly singled out Tesco because they have numerous complaints about how they deal with their suppliers, complaints from staff and just their bullying attitude to expand.
Tesco control more than 50% of the UK retail market? Nonsense. And what do you mean by “unethical means”?They already control more than half of all retail in the UK getting there by unethical means and they will do that here too if allowed.
Nobody mentioned “at all costs”. But if two retailers on the same street are selling exactly the same commodity, but at different prices, logic dictates that the retailer with the lower price is going to generate more business.This attitude of 'I want it cheaper at all cost' is very selfish to the rest of us.0 -
That’s just not true. For example, you can pay whatever the going rate is for a pint on say, Dawson Street (probably over €5), or you can wander down to The Porterhouse (admittedly not the best spot in the world), where they are currently selling a different beer (proper beer too) every day for €4.In relation to pubs it doesn't matter because it's basically a cartel and prices are set more or less.0 -
I don't know how much difference that will make. I've been hearing this shop around business for years here in Dublin and really you don't have a lot of choice. In relation to pubs it doesn't matter because it's basically a cartel and prices are set more or less.
There is nothing to stop you setting up in business, undercutting your rivals, and making a fortune so. Go for it ! Put your money and time where your mouth is ! Find a niche in the market if its so easy to make money and pay your taxes in Ireland. See after working 60 or 80 hours a week if you come out with even half the average public sector wage of 966 p.w.....many self employed people / business people I know are not making half the wages for double the hours, after paying overheads etc.
Plus there is no holiday pay, sick pay, security, pension, etc. Still , you think buisiness is lucrative, go for it !0 -
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djpbarry: I suggest you read the full thread of this discussion rather than taking each comment as a separate statement. I have mentioned in earlier posts about Tesco and I suggest you read them to answer your questions or maybe do your own research. This is the industry I know, having working in the retail sector for both Irish and UK companies and have seen the impact of Tesco on the market. Tesco's ethics of profit before people are well documented from their child labour force making clothes for them to how they treat their staff in store. I know Tesco are not alone at using child labour before you point that out. I'm simply highlighting some of the practices of the likes of Tesco that make it unfair competition. If you think that the business practice of exploiting people is ok to ensure you get a cheaper price and making local business unable to compete thus forcing them out of the market then shame on you for supporting them.0
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There is nothing to stop you setting up in business, undercutting your rivals, and making a fortune so. Go for it ! Put your money and time where your mouth is ! Find a niche in the market if its so easy to make money and pay your taxes in Ireland. See after working 60 or 80 hours a week if you come out with even half the average public sector wage of 966 p.w.....many self employed people / business people I know are not making half the wages for double the hours, after paying overheads etc.
Plus there is no holiday pay, sick pay, security, pension, etc. Still , you think buisiness is lucrative, go for it !
Well done jimmmy, managed to shoe-horn that one in there.0 -
So let's see some evidence. You're making some pretty serious claims here about a company - the onus is on you to support your argument.Tesco's ethics of profit before people are well documented from their child labour force making clothes for them to how they treat their staff in store.0 -
I think I have supported my argument in earlier posts, if you care to read them?
But since you have asked here is some sites where you can read some up some more on their practices...
http://www.labourbehindthelabel.org/campaigns/budget/269-giant-retailers-cashing-in-on-poverty-wages-
http://www.tescopoly.org/
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1381639014893922585
http://www.mandate.ie/news/newsitem.aspx?Nid=97&pr=true&NType=0
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article5062774.ece
http://www.waronwant.org/news/blogs/south-africa-diary/16561-one-farm-workers-story
Please don't be naive to think Tesco is automatically an honorable company that is not in the business of exploitation.0 -
thebman: Clearly you have another agenda for your comments. The result in not supporting local and Irish produce would be the collapse of the economy if some of our multi-national friends pull out. This attitude of 'I want it cheaper at all cost' is very selfish to the rest of us. Basically you want imports cheaper.... I suggest you go and live in the UK then! They are always going to be more expensive here with shipping costs and the extra they slap on for good luck. I for one am proud to support local and try help keep people in a job if that is your definition for 'protectionism' then thats what I'm guilty of.... such a crime eh!
I don't have any agenda.
I'm not saying don't buy Irish, I'm saying don't buy Irish if it isn't competitive.
Uncompetitive Irish companies don't do us any good. They are just asking for competition to come in and kill them off which seems to be what is happening.
Selfish? Its business and my money. I should pay more and buy Irish out of the goodness of my heart? God if that is how business works, I should definitely start up my own company as it must be very easy to compete. Maybe I can ask my competitors to help me out if I'm stuck for a few quid.
UK companies selling here also have to ship goods over here.0 -
is it fair competition? NO. But its short lived. I hope you enjoy your discounted imports for the time being. You clearly would rather see many many people loose their jobs and the demise of the Irish economy by not supporting local industries in favour of companies who exploit workers in other countries and who exploit the staff in their stores e.g. Tesco in Douglas, Cork. If an Irish company refuses to engage in this cheaper at all costs behaviour and therefore cannot compete with the companies that do how is it that they must be put out of business for having ethics? Its greed by the likes of you sir. There is plenty of room for business to co-exist with the Irish business in Ireland and offer competition. There is many business who do offer this and have done so for years. I take exception to a unfair competition as I have outlined countless times in my earlier posts if you care to read them and maybe begin to understand the impact this has on the economy. Sadly our production and exports are decreasing. I don't know how you can justify willing them to collapse in favour of cheaper, often less quality. This is the true, long term, rip off that we must endure! What happens when they have wiped out all the Irish companies... is it still competitive?0
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is it fair competition? NO. But its short lived. I hope you enjoy your discounted imports for the time being. You clearly would rather see many many people loose their jobs and the demise of the Irish economy by not supporting local industries in favour of companies who exploit workers in other countries and who exploit the staff in their stores e.g. Tesco in Douglas, Cork. If an Irish company refuses to engage in this cheaper at all costs behaviour and therefore cannot compete with the companies that do how is it that they must be put out of business for having ethics? Its greed by the likes of you sir. There is plenty of room for business to co-exist with the Irish business in Ireland and offer competition. There is many business who do offer this and have done so for years. I take exception to a unfair competition as I have outlined countless times in my earlier posts if you care to read them and maybe begin to understand the impact this has on the economy. Sadly our production and exports are decreasing. I don't know how you can justify willing them to collapse in favour of cheaper, often less quality. This is the true, long term, rip off that we must endure! What happens when they have wiped out all the Irish companies... is it still competitive?
If people don't buy from foreign owned companies like Tesco they will close up and lay off all their work force. Jobs lost. You don't seem to care about those jobs though. Are you sure your not the one with the agenda?0 -
is it fair competition? NO. But its short lived. I hope you enjoy your discounted imports for the time being. You clearly would rather see many many people loose their jobs and the demise of the Irish economyfavour of cheaper, often less quality. This is the true, long term, rip off that we must endure! What happens when they have wiped out all the Irish companies... is it still competitive?
What's fair about big business? Its all about profit margins and cheapest labour, sources and production. Corporations rule the world have paid lobbyists who have direct contact with Governments and politicians. Why should people pay over the odds for goods if they can get them cheaper abroad? Irish businesses need to compete if consumers are going to continue to shop in NI or online. None of us are fools anymore. I will buy Irish if the price is right but I have no hesitation of buying online if the price is cheaper. Garrett Fitzgerald said only today in the Irish Times that our competitiveness was lost even before the credit crunch.0 -
thebman: What a dumb response. On par with your 'working for free' statement. Please go and learn how the economy works and then come back with a sensible response. I think its evident from the posts I have made that I am interested in sustained Irish jobs. Unlike you I don't want dependance on the false economic jobs that the likes of Tesco create. My point has always been that they operate an unfair advantage thus uncompetitive.0
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thebman: What a dumb response. On par with your 'working for free' statement. Please go and learn how the economy works and then come back with a sensible response. I think its evident from the posts I have made that I am interested in sustained Irish jobs. Unlike you I don't want dependance on the false economic jobs that the likes of Tesco create. My point has always been that they operate an unfair advantage thus uncompetitive.
Why the focus on retail manufacturers? its not a high value added area and is not a make or break for the economy.A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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The thread is 'why are we still being ripped off'. Retail is the industry that I happen to know. Retailing goods and services is a KPI in determining the inflation rate through the CPI. Which then goes on to determine and influence wage increases/decreases, interest rates etc. Retail expenditure is 15% of GDP, 35% of all expenditure. A bit more critical to the economy than you suggest in your post. Also paramount to the topic of the thread.0
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thebman: What a dumb response. On par with your 'working for free' statement. Please go and learn how the economy works and then come back with a sensible response. I think its evident from the posts I have made that I am interested in sustained Irish jobs. Unlike you I don't want dependance on the false economic jobs that the likes of Tesco create. My point has always been that they operate an unfair advantage thus uncompetitive.
lol yeah you work in retailing and it seems it isn't for Tesco so you have invested interest in trying to bias people against them.
I'm not a charity. I'll spend my money where I get value. To say I'm doing something wrong by being a good consumer and looking for the cheapest prices is bollocks.
I'm just doing what the National Consumer Agency has been saying I should do. Now I'm a bad consumer apparently. But I'm the one with the agenda. :rolleyes:0 -
well done another idiotic comment to add to your portfolio.
I USED to work in retail. I have no vested interest more than any citizen on Tesco's disgusting unethical and unfair competitive behaviour.
You clearly condone the use of child labour and what they did to the loyal staff in Douglas by being one of their customers and defending them on here. Nice to have that on your conscience.
What the NCA actually say is "is not about changing the way you live your life. It is about making informed consumer choices based on full information and an understanding of what cost versus benefit mix is right for you"
So clearly the mix is right for you so by all means continue to shop at Tesco.
For the record the NCA also say that :
"Broadly speaking, firms in the non-food sub-sector are considered to be price takers as
none is sufficiently dominant to impose its own prices on its full range without reference
to its rivals. However, in the food sub-sector certain firms may be of sufficient size to
dictate some prices to suppliers, particularly the three biggest firms, i.e. Musgraves,
Tesco and Dunnes Stores. Of the three only Tesco is big by international standards, thus,
when dealing with commodity suppliers operating in international markets Musgraves and
Dunnes Stores lack price setting ability"0 -
Do you really think I, or anyone else, has the time to sift through all that looking for something to back up your argument?But since you have asked here is some sites where you can read some up some more on their practices...
http://www.labourbehindthelabel.org/campaigns/budget/269-giant-retailers-cashing-in-on-poverty-wages-
http://www.tescopoly.org/
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1381639014893922585
http://www.mandate.ie/news/newsitem.aspx?Nid=97&pr=true&NType=0
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article5062774.ece
http://www.waronwant.org/news/blogs/south-africa-diary/16561-one-farm-workers-story
Please don’t be so patronising; you think you’re the only poster here with retail experience?Please don't be naive to think Tesco is automatically an honorable company that is not in the business of exploitation.0 -
lol, when have I asummed and indicated that I am the only one on here that has had experience in the retail sector. I have indicated that this is the industry that I know and have been a part of. So if you take something else from that thats up to you. I can't control if you feel patronised by that.
I think its clear as a consumer you rather keep your head buried in the sand. You asked for the information I provided and keep asking for me to repeat points I have made in earlier posts. If you don't have the time then why are you bothering on here, not reading what is being said?0 -
That’s just not true. For example, you can pay whatever the going rate is for a pint on say, Dawson Street (probably over €5), or you can wander down to The Porterhouse (admittedly not the best spot in the world), where they are currently selling a different beer (proper beer too) every day for €4.
There is very little difference in the price of a comparative pint of lager in pubs. Its telling when the VA comes out with a press release about a price freeze or a few years ago when they said that they would lower prices if taxes were dropped. That proves that they fix prices.
I think the owner is UK based. I'm not sure that the brewing company is part of that cartel that supplies the Porterhouse (which has good micro brewery beer but they dont clean the taps properly so its muck). All the other "imports" they serve are overpriced and Heineken costs the same as anywhere else.
Dawson Street is basically full of "upmarket" (ie meatmarket) clubs so you are going to pay more.
Like I said this might break down as things get tighter because pubs are starting to struggle (well struggle in that the average owner can't afford to be ANOTHER villa in Spain now).0 -
lol, when have I asummed and indicated that I am the only one on here that has had experience in the retail sector. I have indicated that this is the industry that I know and have been a part of. So if you take something else from that thats up to you. I can't control if you feel patronised by that.
I think its clear as a consumer you rather keep your head buried in the sand. You asked for the information I provided and keep asking for me to repeat points I have made in earlier posts. If you don't have the time then why are you bothering on here, not reading what is being said?
I think you're on to something. Next time I'm doing my 3-weekly shopping, I'll talk my wife into accepting big cuts in the shopping list so that we can pay more for for the same products, in a store that's an extra half-hour's drive away but owned by different people. It's amazing that no-one's thought of rebooting the economy by encouraging uncompetitive behaviour and rewarding over-pricing before now.
We should get a slogan for it, and market it: "Every little bit helps. Us. Not you." I'll do a logo and add a little smiley face to add to the 'rubbing the customer's face in it' feeling.
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I don’t have time to sift through websites that you link to (and watch hour-long documentaries), therefore I’m not entitled to partake in the discussion?You asked for the information I provided and keep asking for me to repeat points I have made in earlier posts. If you don't have the time then why are you bothering on here, not reading what is being said?
There have been a variety of claims made against Tesco, but most have no basis. I’ve done a little searching and this is about as damning as it gets:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tesco-one-of-seven-firms-fined-for-not-displaying-their-prices-1435055.htmlTESCO was named and shamed yesterday as one of seven businesses convicted of failing to display prices properly.
The supermarket's outlet at Dundrum, south Dublin, was fined €1,500 and ordered to pay €2,000 in costs for failing to show the price of grocery products.
So they were guilty of misleading advertising and they were fined. Justice has been done – let’s move on.
With regard to child labour:
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/child%20labour%20making%20tesco%20clothes/170400A Channel 4 News undercover investigation has found children aged as young as twelve working for two of Tesco's suppliers in Bangladesh.
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During the course of the 4 month investigation, it also emerged that Tesco did not know that two of the factories Channel 4 News visited were manufacturing its clothes.
This doesn’t exactly fit in with your claims of Tesco employing a “child labour force”, does it?
There have been other claims made with regard to exploitation of workers in Bangladesh:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6219274.stmTextile workers in Bangladesh get paid as little as five pence an hour to make cheap clothes for UK companies Tesco, Asda and Primark, a report says.
But again, the problem is with the suppliers, not Tesco. If you’re going to blame Tesco for purchasing from suppliers who exploit their workers, then you also have to blame Tesco’s suppliers for not abiding by labour laws, the Bangladeshi authorities for not enforcing labour laws and of course the consumers who purchase the product in Tesco.
To be perfectly honest, I don’t understand this crusade against Tesco. Focusing on Tesco in an effort to combat exploitation is like focusing on McDonalds in combating obesity; sure, they’re part of the problem, but they’re hardly the root cause.
Anyways, I shan’t be discussing Tesco’s business practices any further as it’s off-topic.0 -
My spending is not determined solely by price (although price is an important determinant). I am prepared to spend extra if I am satisfied that the goods and services I buy are produced on the basis of treating people decently: that particularly includes my having an aversion to the use of child labour and sweatshops.
The biggest problem I have with this is picking up the relevant information.0 -
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... But again, the problem is with the suppliers, not Tesco. If you’re going to blame Tesco for purchasing from suppliers who exploit their workers, then you also have to blame Tesco’s suppliers for not abiding by labour laws, the Bangladeshi authorities for not enforcing labour laws and of course the consumers who purchase the product in Tesco...
Of course suppliers are to blame, but that does not exonerate Tesco if they knowingly purchase from suppliers who unfairly exploit their workers -- or even if they don't expressly know it, but their knowledge of how things work in Asia suggests to them that the prices they get can be achieved only on the basis of exploiting workers.
Consumers are weaker candidates for blame, as they are not really in the loop. Where they do know how things work, then they can be blamed for supporting operations that make profit from unfair practices.0
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