why are we still being ripped off

djpbarry

cfcj wrote: »

Its not 'apparently' they are ditching Irish products in favour of UK sourced it was Tesco that announced it!

Could you provide a source please?

cfcj wrote: »

What evidence do you have that Mandate or the workers in Cork refused to negotiate with Tesco before strike action? It is their democratic right to strike. So let me get this right, you are more annoyed that they would strike than what Tesco did to them?

:rolleyes: I was being sarcastic.

cfcj wrote: »

Indeed what would we do without the great Tesco, sure us Irish can't fend for ourselves right? We need to let Tesco monopolise the market and as for who will the suppliers supply to... well nobody since Tesco are forcing out all the 'crap' competition out, nobody I'm guessing!

So would you rather Tesco and the supermarkets regulated food standards also?

Is it possible for you to make a point without resorting to hyperbole?

My point is that you are not questioning why suppliers are being dropped by Tesco, you’re just assuming that the suppliers are being wronged. It’s starting to look like some sort of anti-Irish conspiracy, to be honest.

cfcj wrote: »

Bottom line is if you buy a €3 or similarly priced top in Tesco or Primark, that it is undoubtably made in conditions that would be illegal in Ireland.

You cannot state that with absolute certainty. It is possible that someone has been exploited in the production of said top, yes, but undoubtedly, no. In the same way, if I buy a top for €300, it’s impossible for me to say with absolute certainty that no exploitation occurred during it’s production.

cfcj wrote: »

You say you support the ending of child labour but don't seem to want to get Tesco and Primark to fess up to how they can charge the consumer so low and be walking out with such huge profits.

There is isn’t a company in the world that will publicly reveal the intricacies of their business; it’s just not going to happen. The best we can hope for is for laws to be enforced and that is probably the biggest part of the problem. There are laws in place in the likes of India and Pakistan protecting workers’ rights, but unfortunately those laws are not being enforced in some places. If Tesco, Primark or anyone else is breaking a law somewhere in the world, then they should absolutely be brought to justice.

However, it seems to me that you are demanding higher standards from Tesco than you are from everyone else. You assume that Tesco are guilty until proven innocent, while everyone else (Irish businesses in particular) are completely innocent of any wrong-doing. You were asked a relevant question on the subject here, but as far as I can see you ignored it.

cfcj wrote: »

All the time Tesco grow and grow and claim more of of the Irish market share.

Source?

cfcj wrote: »

I can't accuse any of the ones you mention because I cannot find evidence to support that Dunne's or enough evidence of Arcadia Group and the like engage in this...

You have scant evidence that Tesco are involved in wrong-doing, yet it seems to be sufficient for you to brand them as criminal.

cfcj wrote: »

Thing is that Tesco fast becoming the market leader and have aggressively dominated the market in a relatively short period of time both here and in the UK. The thing that they don't want you to know is how they did it...

They did it because people want to shop in Tesco – there is no conspiracy here.

cfcj wrote: »

Do you acknowledge Tesco's control the Irish market and what do you think will be the outcome of an over reliance on one company?

Tesco do not control the Irish market – feel free to prove me wrong. I would be surprised if their share of the grocery market was much more than about 25%. I would imagine they are roughly on a par with Dunnes. I’d imagine Musgrave’s have a pretty decent-sized chunk of the market too.

cfcj wrote: »

A wipe out of Irish suppliers and the jobs they create.... Tesco by the way are not interested in creating jobs here.

I don’t know what you mean by that statement? Tesco’s primary concern, like every other business in this country, is making money, not creating jobs. However, job creation is usually a by-product of a successful business.

cfcj

djpbarry wrote: »

Could you provide a source please?
:rolleyes: I was being sarcastic.
Is it possible for you to make a point without resorting to hyperbole?

My point is that you are not questioning why suppliers are being dropped by Tesco, you’re just assuming that the suppliers are being wronged. It’s starting to look like some sort of anti-Irish conspiracy, to be honest.
You cannot state that with absolute certainty. It is possible that someone has been exploited in the production of said top, yes, but undoubtedly, no. In the same way, if I buy a top for €300, it’s impossible for me to say with absolute certainty that no exploitation occurred during it’s production.
There is isn’t a company in the world that will publicly reveal the intricacies of their business; it’s just not going to happen. The best we can hope for is for laws to be enforced and that is probably the biggest part of the problem. There are laws in place in the likes of India and Pakistan protecting workers’ rights, but unfortunately those laws are not being enforced in some places. If Tesco, Primark or anyone else is breaking a law somewhere in the world, then they should absolutely be brought to justice.

However, it seems to me that you are demanding higher standards from Tesco than you are from everyone else. You assume that Tesco are guilty until proven innocent, while everyone else (Irish businesses in particular) are completely innocent of any wrong-doing. You were asked a relevant question on the subject here, but as far as I can see you ignored it.
Source?
You have scant evidence that Tesco are involved in wrong-doing, yet it seems to be sufficient for you to brand them as criminal.
They did it because people want to shop in Tesco – there is no conspiracy here.
Tesco do not control the Irish market – feel free to prove me wrong. I would be surprised if their share of the grocery market was much more than about 25%. I would imagine they are roughly on a par with Dunnes. I’d imagine Musgrave’s have a pretty decent-sized chunk of the market too.
I don’t know what you mean by that statement? Tesco’s primary concern, like every other business in this country, is making money, not creating jobs. However, job creation is usually a by-product of a successful business.

ohhh wake up to yourself, take your head out of wherever you have planted it! We can go around in circles but what it seems to me is that you have a vested interest in the protection of Tesco and in concealing their business practices. The drill seems to be you question something I said, ask for evidence then ignore it, ask for it again in a few posts later... and ignore it again.

And when your proved wrong.... you make a sarcastic statement, e.g. belittling the workers in Cork, or bringing in child sexual abuse when I was talking about child labour.

Thankfully I do care about Irish jobs. Tesco, as you pointed out also, do not. They care about profits. So yay for Tesco profits... thats what we should care about, screw everyone that gets in their way.

Thankfully it seems that the Department for Enterprise is drafting in an ombudsman for the food sector and a quote from the Irish Times (June 23) by the minister Mary Coughlan says

"She said it remained unclear why certain retailers seemed to have far higher levels of profitability than other and added she was aware that the amount of shelf space given to certain Irish food producers in Tesco outlets had diminished"

So I'm delighted that something is being done and people are starting to wake up to Tesco.


Quote from http://www.euromonitor.com/Retail_explosion_takes_Ireland_by_storm
"Tesco is continuing to expand its presence in the Irish market by drawing on its strength as the UK's leading retailer and taking advantage of more relaxed retail laws in Ireland. Euromonitor International's research shows that Tesco increased its market share in Ireland from 6.4% to 6.9% over the past year, affording it the position of the country's third largest retailer. Tesco's strengthening market position comes at a time when retail laws are being relaxed in favour of modernisation, allowing the company to focus on developing its successful large store format. While Musgrave, the largest retailer in Ireland generates its market share from its network of 547 stores, Tesco is not far behind in terms of market share with only 97 stores."

Tesco in the UK is the model to see what we can expect. Detailed evidence backing up what I have said in earlier posts can be found on tescopoly.org.


I hope that people have taken my point about Tesco in particular but also about Penney's and how they are unfair competition. Its fine if you don't agree with me, thats your opinion...

I will always advocate fair competition, welcome any fair competition into Ireland and question any company that rips off Ireland. The true rip off of the Irish economy so they can post record profits at the expense of Irish jobs and unethical behaviour.

Evidence for any of the statements is in earlier posts, please have the courtesy of reading before again asking me to repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat......

djpbarry

cfcj wrote: »

Thankfully I do care about Irish jobs. Tesco, as you pointed out also, do not. They care about profits.

Whereas I’m sure the likes of Dunnes and Musgrave's are far less interested in profit.

cfcj wrote: »

Quote from http://www.euromonitor.com/Retail_ex...eland_by_storm
"Tesco is continuing to expand its presence in the Irish market by drawing on its strength as the UK's leading retailer and taking advantage of more relaxed retail laws in Ireland. Euromonitor International's research shows that Tesco increased its market share in Ireland from 6.4% to 6.9% over the past year, affording it the position of the country's third largest retailer. Tesco's strengthening market position comes at a time when retail laws are being relaxed in favour of modernisation, allowing the company to focus on developing its successful large store format. While Musgrave, the largest retailer in Ireland generates its market share from its network of 547 stores, Tesco is not far behind in terms of market share with only 97 stores."

What’s the significance of this exactly? That article is nearly 3 years old by the way.

cfcj wrote: »

I hope that people have taken my point about Tesco in particular but also about Penney's and how they are unfair competition.

It’s not a point you have articulated particularly well. I’m also still waiting for you to back up your claim that Tesco control the Irish market. Methinks you are greatly overstating Tesco’s presence in this country because it suits your argument to do so.

cfcj

djpbarry wrote: »

Whereas I’m sure the likes of Dunnes and Musgrave's are far less interested in profit.
What’s the significance of this exactly? That article is nearly 3 years old by the way.
It’s not a point you have articulated particularly well. I’m also still waiting for you to back up your claim that Tesco control the Irish market. Methinks you are greatly overstating Tesco’s presence in this country because it suits your argument to do so.

I think I have articulated my point very, it must hurt that I have exposed Tesco where you would like to conceal even the idea that they must be acting unfairly and I have also exposed policies where they are replacing staff with contract workers from outsourced companies where they can manipulate their working conditions and not be held liable. The agruement that others are doing it too doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. If a company, Irish or otherwise are up to the same tactics, and there was evidence of it then I would be equally keen to expose them and advocate people not to support them.

What totally makes me laugh is that you clutch at any straw to confuse the issue... the issue is how they are ripping us off.

djpbarry

cfcj wrote: »

I think I have articulated my point very, it must hurt that I have exposed Tesco where you would like to conceal even the idea that they must be acting unfairly...

I’m going to bow out of the discussion at this stage as you seem more interested in personalising the debate than answering questions directly.

cfcj

djpbarry wrote: »

Please don’t be so patronising; you think you’re the only poster here with retail experience?

Yes I was the one who made it personal...

madser

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m going to bow out of the discussion at this stage as you seem more interested in personalising the debate than answering questions directly.

Pot kettle black mate, you were the one that personalised it first with me, you don't take any notice of what people post, your argument has been ripped apart and your still on with the same old bull ****.

madser

jimmmy wrote: »

I see plenty of offers in the papers where some Irish hotels are doing 3 nights + 1 evening meal for 99 euro.....amazing value considering our minimum wage is probably double what the Spanish one is, our vat rate, our electricity which is the second most expensive in Europe, the cost of sustaining our govt + their employees , our rates + other taxes etc etc etc. Forget your 600 euro holiday.

The problem is the greedy hoteliers in Ireland, how are they able to offer better rates now than in the past just goes to show how much we were being ripped off, just for the record my weekend in Wexford was a special offer, its all down to the per person as opposed to the per room rate that is offered in almost all other countries. Ireland is a rip and thats a fact.

cfcj

madser wrote: »

The problem is the greedy hoteliers in Ireland, how are they able to offer better rates now than in the past just goes to show how much we were being ripped off, just for the record my weekend in Wexford was a special offer, its all down to the per person as opposed to the per room rate that is offered in almost all other countries. Ireland is a rip and thats a fact.

I'll give you a trick that worked for me when I recently went for the weekend to Brighton. I booked the first night and paid through hotels.com. I had noticed that the second night (Saturday) was almost double the price so when I go there I decided to wing it and asked to speak with the reservations manager. Literally my exact words were that I would put this cash into his till right now if I can get the same rate as the Friday night. He resisted at first but then just as I was about to walk away he changed his mind and I got the same rate, now I did have somewhere I could have gone... didn't have to stay. So maybe not advisable if your gonna be stranded.

Fluffybums

Fluffybums wrote: »

Minimum wage - 6.78 euro in UK, 4.70 euro US and 8.65 euro Ireland
Electrician - 12.42 euro in UK, 10.51 euro (<1 year experience) US and 21.49 euro Ireland.

I suspect that the comparisons go on and on....

Anecdotally, cleaning windows of a standard 3 bed house (not bungalow) quoted 30 euro in rural Ireland, 11.82 for a similar sized house in Tulse Hill, London.:(

cfcj wrote: »

A consideration...

Ireland has a better standard of living than the UK and US. Compared to the UK we pay less tax and don't pay for water, at least where I live.



The US they have lower taxes than us however they don't provide the same social services/healthcare provided here.

US average yearly wage is €18,686 , per capita of GDP is €33,630.
UK average yearly wage is €28,409 , per capita of GDP is €26,212
Ireland average yearly wage is €32,600, per capita of GDP is €30,530

Gonna look up how to get into working as an electrician though

A further considerstion:
Where does the money come from for these increased wages relative to G8 nations?
Cowen is paid more that Obama, Brown, Merckle and Sarkosy (all G8) amongst others, that money has to come from somewhere?
For the rip off you need to look a lot closer to home.

As for paying for water:
Clean water from the taps does not come without a cost, if you pay as you use you respect a very valuable resource. Check out the effluent from, I would guess, most rural villages which have seen major residential developments to see how a lack of realisation and planning with regard to the treatment of waste water has got the country and lets not even start on septic tanks.

cfcj

Fluffybums wrote: »

A further considerstion:
Where does the money come from for these increased wages relative to G8 nations?
Cowen is paid more that Obama, Brown, Merckle and Sarkosy (all G8) amongst others, that money has to come from somewhere?
For the rip off you need to look a lot closer to home.

please retract the misquote from me...

"Clean water from the taps does not come without a cost, if you pay as you use you respect a very valuable resource. Check out the effluent from, I would guess, most rural villages which have seen major residential developments to see how a lack of realisation and planning with regard to the treatment of waste water has got the country and lets not even start on septic tanks" was not said by me in the original context of my post and is not my wording.

Fluffybums

cfcj,
Sorry for the mis-quote. I have corrected this and again apologise. I'm still trying to get the hang of this and obviously overstretched myself.

cfcj

Fluffybums wrote: »

cfcj,
Sorry for the mis-quote. I have corrected this and again apologise. I'm still trying to get the hang of this and obviously overstretched myself.

Cool, thanks for that and appology accepted

funnyname

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

10 x 90 minute tickets available here for €18. Saves about 40% for you.

WTF are ticketmaster selling tickets for dublin bus?

djpbarry

Article on the subject of high prices in the Republic compared to the North in today's Times (emphasis mine):

TAXES, THE high cost of doing business here and lax consumer attitudes are to blame for the fact that prices are higher in the Republic than in the North, according to a Competition Authority report to be released today.

Big retailers are absolved in the report of failing to pass on savings resulting from the euro-sterling differential.
...
It also suggests that higher food prices are partly the result of consumers being less price sensitive and failing to shop around.
...
If the gap in prices between the Republic and the North is to narrow, retailers must reduce prices. Cost reductions can come from greater internal efficiencies and from pressurising suppliers for better deals.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0630/1224249784735.html

yanav

from your list, OP, there are at least a few of those items which you (and most Irish people) have the option of avoiding or finding at a better price.

e.g. paying 15euro into a nightclub- that's a ridiculous amount- yet people are still paying it. You're not obliged to pay that amount, yet still we do. There are places that are open almost as late as nightclubs that charge less in, and cost less for drinks. As long as the demand is there, these guys will keep making business from this- and there's nothing unfair about that.

I'm guilty of paying 15 euro into places myself too, and I despise myself for it.


e.g. 2 Takeaways- cook the food yourself! It'll cost less than a third of the price.

I'd be surprised if the guys who set the prices for your local takeaway are millionaires. They're just regular people, making a business and they probably complain about the prices of car insurance and pints. And guys who run pubs probably complain about the prices of takeaways and car insurance.

I don't mean to be so simplistic as to say that "Economies are driven purely by consumers" but they are to a large extent. There are plenty of other alternatives for alot of things, and there are plenty things we can do without.

Obviously there's public services (such as public transport) which perhaps need to be looked at differently.