Enda Kenny v Trevor Seargent, who's lying?

mike65

Would have stuck this in the other FG/SF thread (now locked), it appears that prior to the 2007 election that Kenny sought the views of SF via Trevor Seargent of the Greens but Seargent declined to do that not beliving it was his job. Interviewed on Newstalks morning news Kenny denied he had sought out SF views in any way shape or form. Now is Kenny lying or is Seargent?


Daily Mail

"Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny was last night accused of trying to orchestrate a secret pact with Sinn Fein in an effort to become Taoiseach at the last general election. Former Green Party leader Trevor Sargent said Mr Kenny asked him to contact Sinn Fein on his behalf to see if they would support a Fine Gael-led coalition.

'Mr Kenny needed to keep his hands clean but still have Sinn Fein support him,' said Mr Sargent – who refused to make the call. The shocking claim, which is vehemently denied by Fine Gael, contrasts significantly with Mr Kenny's repeated comments this week that he 'would not be doing business' with Sinn Fein under any circumstances. However, Mr Sargent's claims were supported by a TG4 interview from April in which Mr Kenny appeared open to the prospect of working with Sinn Fein."

Joey the lips

Jesus you read the daily mail and you expect to be taken seriously! Why dont you move to england!

This is just an attempt by the main partys to elevate themselves. Although the beauty and stupidity of this is it will no doubt help sinn fein as its clear they are getting a sizable chunk of vote!

Tricity Bendix

I remember after the government was cobbled together FG started having a go at the Greens for setting up shoop with FF. This led to Sargent/Gormley (can't rightly remember) lashing out at FG and stating that if Kenny had been serious about forming a government he would have gone and talked to SF himself.

mike65

Joey the lips that was a handy link, I've heard both parties on the radio contradict each other in the last hour. Consider the story, not your own bias regarding a paper eh?

deadhead13

Well someone is lying and Trevor Sargent apparently has a witness.

Liam Byrne

deadhead13 wrote: »

Well someone is lying and Trevor Sargent apparently has a witness.

The same Trevor Sargent who pulled a fast one with his "I won't lead the Greens into Government" ?

As for the "Daily Mail" :rolleyes: they'd run a headline that Trevor Sargent saw little "green" men if they thought it would sell a few papers! :rolleyes:

So what's the story with the Greens, then ? Are they so scared of getting a whipping for allowing themselves become the new, irrelevant PDs that they're resorting to scare tactics with a "at least incompetence and corruption is better than considering SF" line ?

If there's some truth in it, it'll come out.

But Sargent's word is about as good as Bertie Ahern's.

And if it does turn out to be true, at least there's still Labour.....

Liam Byrne

mike65 wrote: »

Now is Kenny lying or is Seargent?

Valid question, but how come the thread title doesn't reflect it ?

"Sargent telling a great big lie ?" would be just as appropriate.

Or better still, "who's telling the truth ? Kenny or Sargent ?"

Sully

Having heard Sargent on Radio one now, I don't believe him. Doesn't really add up and even his comments about how he said to Enda that it was "unorthodox". Plus the presenter doesn't seem to believe him either.

Red_Marauder

Sargent is on Rte radio 1 at the moment.

The Green party would be better off trying to preserve their own name than denigrating Fine Gael's so cheaply. Media opportunism, not much to see here.

P. Breathnach

Sully wrote: »

Having heard Sargent on Radio one now, I don't believe him...

Having heard the same broadcast, I do believe him. He didn't talk it up too much, either.

mike65

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Valid question, but how come the thread title doesn't reflect it ?

"Sargent telling a great big lie ?" would be just as appropriate.

Or better still, "who's telling the truth ? Kenny or Sargent ?"

Fair point, though Kenny is the one who's looking to form a government, not the greens and certainly not Seargent.

Red_Marauder

I do think EK said something along those lines to Sargent... I just don't believe it was an active approach about SF. He was approaching the Green Party mainly for their own support. Sargent was the one, accordng to himself, who brought up SF and Kenny (as Sean O Rourke on News @1 said) was clearly just thinking out loud.

Well I guess in the week that's in it, all publicity is good publicity

goldenbrown

seargent, rats and sinking ship stuff

Liam Byrne

mike65 wrote: »

Fair point, though Kenny is the one who's looking to form a government, not the greens and certainly not Seargent.

Equally, Kenny has absolutely no opportunity to "form a Government" until the Greens & FF realise that they're no longer wanted.

So the step that you're missing in the above analysis is that the Greens have a vested interest in making the alternative look as unappealing as possible, making Sargent - as the former leader who pulled a massive "unwanted by the public" stroke in order to get the Greens in - VERY prone to pulling a fast one to keep them there.

Kenny might have been trying to ascertain what way SF were going to vote in the election for taoiseach which is a different thing entirely to involving them in government.

Remember EK took a long while to drop the idea that he could have formed a government at the time.
Maybe he was expecting SF to vote against Ahern and at least abstain with Kenny.

I don't know and think it's a non issue.

Chris Lowe

What exactly did Enda Kenny say to TG4, was it as has been reported

"Sinn Fein have changed. I am not ruling anyone out at all,"

?
(sourced from today's Indo)

partyguinness

If this is true then Enda Kenny is a bigger fool than I have been giving him credit for.

JonathanAnon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The same Trevor Sargent who pulled a fast one with his "I won't lead the Greens into Government" ?

Yeah, him who speaks with forked tongue. Was very disingenuous the way he went back on this statement. I think this incident takes away from his credibility regarding this incident with Enda Kenny.

I think it is important that we find out who is actually lying though. I'm sure it will come out after the elections.

partyguinness

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Yeah, him who speaks with forked tongue. Was very disingenuous the way he went back on this statement. I think this incident takes away from his credibility regarding this incident with Enda Kenny.

I think it is important that we find out who is actually lying though. I'm sure it will come out after the elections.

Well he did resign his position as party leader.

To be fair even if it is true, Enda Kenny cannot say so..his career would be finished.

Darsad

Whats the problem in trying to form a government I would expect that he Kenny would try to talk to all parties thats not to say he has to agree with them ! Anyway I think this is a cheap shot by sargent as according to him on radio 1 it was he who suggested kenny talk to the Shinners.

partyguinness

I dont know...there are cheap shots and there are cheap shots.

This is more than a cheap shot...plus this is fitting in nicely with what the Flannery gentleman said over the wend...

Red_Marauder

Is nobody in the media pressing Trevor Sargent over why he didn't make these claims earlier? As in, 2007? Two years have passed, and he just remembered it in election week.

I didn't think I could have a lower opinion of the Green Party.

This is just another unsuccessful last ditch media stunt for damage limitation. The general public have in their minds largely set FG-Lab up as the next Government. By still antagonising against these parties and towing the FF line, Sargent is alienating that public, and so is doing himself or his party more harm than good. Can nobody in the greens tell him this?

mike65

No doubt this will be overcome should FG/Lab need a third leg after the next election.

Liam Byrne

mike65 wrote: »

No doubt this will be overcome should FG/Lab need a third leg after the next election.

Hopefully not, or hopefully you're referring to the Independents as the third leg.

Sully

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Is nobody in the media pressing Trevor Sargent over why he didn't make these claims earlier? As in, 2007? Two years have passed, and he just remembered it in election week.

I didn't think I could have a lower opinion of the Green Party.

This is just another unsuccessful last ditch media stunt for damage limitation. The general public have in their minds largely set FG-Lab up as the next Government. By still antagonising against these parties and towing the FF line, Sargent is alienating that public, and so is doing himself or his party more harm than good. Can nobody in the greens tell him this?

Its amusing that it comes after a stupid comment from someone in FG about SF. How very nice of Trev to decide to come clean, at such a crucial time (two days before an election and a day before coverage ban) in the local elections where his party and coalition party are set for a hammering. While on the radio he was commenting on how unorthadox it was that Kenny apparently asked him to contact SF (and wasnt able to provide a quick straight answer to pressing questions which cast doubt) on his bealf yet he never commented on this until now?!?!

mike65

The Greens had their last press conference a few hours ago, it sounds like it got quite lively. Lots of to and fro and some confusion.

IIMII

If SF had the seats, FG would be in bed with them quicker than you could blink. All of the parties know that SF in power would become part of the establishment, and seek to keep power as does every party. All of the parties have dodged SF until now because they wanted to preserve their own corner from being eroded by a growth in support for SF. An increase in support would also further change SF, as newer voters would change the party's priorities by having a broader gene-pool then the socialist / feminist one that exists at the moment.

I don't think it matters who is telling the truth. The numbers will decide when SF enters government. Don't forget that this whole row may be a ploy by FG to erode the FF voter base to reduce FF's largest party status.

This hasn't blown up by accident. It happened because it suited FG, primarily because FG are the one party that doesn't have much to lose to a resurgent SF, wheras FF do.

mike65

Er no. This risked/risks making EK look like an idiot hardly what he wants right now.

LostinBlanch

mike65 wrote: »

The Greens had their last press conference a few hours ago, it sounds like it got quite lively. Lots of to and fro and some confusion.

Newstalk had a report on it and it sounded absolutely farcical. You know things are bad when the reporter expresses sorrow for the election candidates and saying that among all the name calling they came out as the most mature people there.

IIMII

Well, it could be argued that he already looks like an idiot. Point is, most people don't mind SF anymore. They may not vote for them, but many are ambivalent towards them.

FG knows that a mainstream SF is the greatest threat to FFs status as the largest party in the state. I think there is one eye on the next election here

partyguinness

Thats true. A surge in SF is bad for FF...SF certainly wont take FG votes...a party who some of their founding fathers were Blueshirt fascists who fought with Franco. Polar opposite from SF who supported the Republicans side...but that is OT.