Enda Kenny v Trevor Seargent, who's lying?

truebluedub

Kenny's problem is that he's been caught on the hop: Either he's lying now or he lied when interviewed on TG4 (about Frank Flannery's comments). Trevor Sargent is a credible source as he is in a position to know what he says he knows, likewise Frank Flannery.

IIMII

Also doesn't bode well for an FG / Green coalition at the next General Election. This may be the defining moment in Kenny's leadership of FG.

Sargent stands over Kenny claim

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0603/breaking60.htm

Former Green Party leader Trevor Sargent has stood over his claim that Fine Gael Enda Kenny asked him to approach Sinn Féin to sound out if the party was prepared to vote for him as Taoiseach.

As the war of words on the events following the general election in 2007 escalated, the Green Party today claimed that Fine Gael made other approaches to the Greens to act as “emissaries” or as "messenger boys”.

Fine Gael has categorically denied that Mr Kenny or any other party member or official asked the Greens to sound out Sinn Fein for any form of support or cooperation.

The current Green leader John Gormley said that the senior Fine Gael TD Phil Hogan had also spoken to him in Leinster House around that time and had asked him to sound out the possibility of Sinn Féin support in the Dáil for a Fine Gael-led coalition.

Mr Sargent said that Mr Kenny phoned him soon after the election but before any of the substantive discussions on possible formations of government had started.

“There was a realisation dawning on the basis of the figures that Fianna Fáil was going to be in Government again, with the help of the PDs and Indpendents by a whisker if the independents could be got on board.

“Fine Gael were realising that they with Labour and the Greens could only get 77 (seats). That was the scenario by which I got the phone call.

“It was a short matter-of-fact phone call about the figures. It was not about policy. It was just about are you willing to discuss policy and the possible formation of Government,” he said.

Mr Sargent said that he told Mr Kenny that the figures did not add up and that Fine Gael would have to talk to Sinn Fein.

“I said that if you want to be Taoiseach you don’t have a choice. It was then that he [Mr Kenny] said could you give them a nod or ask them a question would they be prepared to vote for him as Taoiseach.

“I said, that is a very unusual thing. You have a phone and a voice. Why don’t you ask your own questions.”

Mr Gormley and Mr Sargent were speaking at the final Green Party conference before the European and local elections, as well as the two Dublin byelections.

On his conversation with Mr Hogan, Mr Gormley said: “[He] expected us to do the spadework. Our preference at the time was for a rainbow [coalition] and you didn’t need to be an Einstein to work out that you needed those four (Sinn Féin) votes.

“I remember saying to Phil Hogan. It’s not possible without the Shinners. And he said would you talk to them?”

Elaborating on his recollection of his conversation with the Fine Gael leader, Mr Sargent said Mr Kenny said that Fine Gael did not want to talk to Sinn but he would appreciate their vote if they would vote for him as Taoiseach.

“That seemed to be the extent of his olive branch, the wonderful opportunity hat Sinn Fein would have if Enda Kenny was Taoiseach. He obviously did not want to pick up the phone.”

Mr Sargent added later: “The only way I can rationalise it is that Enda Kenny had some experience in the Ballrooms of Romance in Mayo when he asked a fellow to ask your sister ‘will she got out with me’.”

He also said that he had mentioned the matter to Sinn Fein Dáil leader Caoimhghin Ó Caoláin : I did in passing say to him you will never believe it but Enda Kenny was on to me and he is interested in your vote. So I think the best description I can give of Caoimhghin Ó Caoláin’s response was a hearty laugh.”

The press conference was attended by the party’s two European candidates Dan Boyle and Deirdre de Búrca as well as many of its local candidates in Dublin. Mr Gormley said that a vote for the Greens would help deliver green jobs and a better quality of life.

The conference was interrupted by peace activist Ed Horgan who said he was resigning from the Green Party as it had abandoned its core principles.

Mr Horgan protested that the Greens had reneged on Rossport, on the Hill of Tara and on Shannon Airport, before he was ushered to the side by officials. The Greens later said that Mr Horgan’s membership of the party has expired since 2007.

truebluedub

And now we hear FF have found contemporary evidence in an phoblacht showing FG did make overtures. If this is true this means Kenny and FG are arguing against documented fact. :rolleyes:

LostinBlanch

the greens raison d'etre is to hold onto power, nothing else.

If they thought that going in with FG would do it, they'd struggle with their conscience and then go in with them.

Dumb

Kenny - piece of shoite imo

oscarBravo

Dumb wrote: »

Kenny - piece of shoite imo

Thank you for that stellar contribution. In future, please read over your posts and ask yourself what value they contribute to the forum, before hitting the "submit" button.

truebluedub

Looks like Kenny might not have known about the overtures made to SF - it apparently came from a faction within FG who had a different position to Enda Kenny. That's what the an phoblacht article claimed.

Liam Byrne

truebluedub wrote: »

Looks like Kenny might not have known about the overtures made to SF - it apparently came from a faction within FG who had a different position to Enda Kenny. That's what the an phoblacht article claimed.

An Phoblacht & The Oirish Daily Mail ????

Are there any credible and unbiased media outlets offering "proof" ?

All joking aside, I want to know the answer to this before the next general election. Kenny & FG are currently in with a good chance of a vote, but I don't want Kenny doing a Trevor Sargent / Green u-turn on this!

nesf

Leaving aside whether or not Kenny did it for the moment, it would make sense for Kenny to approach SF through a third party just to test the water and see how they felt like voting. It is at least plausible for Kenny to approach Sergeant in this manner.

deadhead13

John Gormley is claiming to have had a similar conversation with Phil Hogan. Hogan's denial was less than convincing,

skelliser

today fm playing a clip of gormley from last friday saying fg didnt want to go into gov with sf after the 2007 GE.

game.set.match

also newstalk saying a green news conference decended into farce earlier, some member ripped up his membership card, berated the leadership over ff and then stormed out.

greens are falling apart

P. Breathnach

skelliser wrote: »

today fm playing a clip of gormley from last friday saying fg didnt want to go into gov with sf after the 2007 GE.

game.set.match

Seeking the support of a party for election to the office of Taoiseach is not the same as going into government with that party.

also newstalk saying a green news conference decended into farce earlier, some member ripped up his membership card, berated the leadership over ff and then stormed out.

greens are falling apart

I thought Patricia had already quit the party.

nkay1985

I don't know what to think on this. From a sheer numbers perspective, Fine Gael would have had to talk to SF if they wanted power. But I always thought they'd just not do it.

It seems a bit convenient for Seargent to be coming out with this now. But the reason this is getting momentum is that it is an obvious possibility that this kind of thing could have happened. Interestingly, if Seargent's account is true, then Caoimhghin O'Caolain would be able to verify it!

Sargeant wrote:

"I did in passing say to him you will never believe it but Enda Kenny was on to me and he is interested in your vote. So I think the best description I can give of Caoimhghin Ó Caoláin’s response was a hearty laugh.”

I get the feeling they'll be staying out of it though. They'd have nothing to gain.



It does all smack of desperation from the Greens though. Party in turmoil, it would seem.

denat

Sorry but I simply don't have time to read this thread in full.

I heard both Sargent and Kenny on the "news at one" today and have no doubt who was telling the truth - it was not Kenny.

old boy

a bit ironic possibly, but could voting for the greens be a waste.

Ardent

skelliser wrote: »

today fm playing a clip of gormley from last friday saying fg didnt want to go into gov with sf after the 2007 GE.

game.set.match

also newstalk saying a green news conference decended into farce earlier, some member ripped up his membership card, berated the leadership over ff and then stormed out.

greens are falling apart

Correct.

I think it's quite obvious what's happening here - on the eve of the local and European elections, the Greens are desperately playing the damage limiitation game and trying to make it look like it was FG's fault they "had to" get into bed with FF.

Red_Marauder

It's a shame really because what I always used to like about the greens was that they were a party of principle and had one big, important agenda in the environment when nobody else was pushing that agenda.

Now as the green agenda is more relevant to people than ever, the greens have suddenly put it aside to replace it with political position and power as their main raison d'etre.

I don't think they are doomed to the fate of the PDs, but they certainly are doing their best at an impersonation. If they had any backbone or crediblity they would get out before they are kicked out.

is_that_so

Nothing here at all beyond the timing suggesting that the Greens have learnt how to play as dirty as the bad boys. Phone calls with "witnesses" tend to lead to all kinds of denial, counter claims, memory lapses, mishearing, misunderstanding and a story with legs. What can be predicted with reasonable accuracy is that Mr Flannery is likely to be kept far away from elections for the foreseeable future.
There is also the risk of something like this backfiring as it allows voters to be reminded of Sargent's integrity and what the Greens themselves did in choosing FF.

LostinBlanch

old boy wrote: »

a bit ironic possibly, but could voting for the greens be a waste.

Of course not, it's a vote for FF