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Hypocritical much??

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  • 03-06-2009 12:48pm
    #1
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I'll contribute my views and arguments about the main topic on the other thread but I cant believe this hasnt been said. Ok, let me get this right:

    The argument is that no action should be taken against Helix because what was said was said on another forum.

    Whats truely ironic and hypocritical is that this is the thread which started it all.

    Its a thread where two players are calling for Kev to "boot her from the league" because of... wait for it.... something she wrote on a totally different site (ie:Boards).

    So, its completely "outrageous" for us to ban someone for a month from the Soccer forum but its perfectly ok to abuse and kick someone out of your game for things written on a "3rd party website".


    Wow. The ironing is crunchy-nut.

    DeV.
    Post edited by Shield on


«13

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    #2
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    DeVore wrote: »
    The argument is that no action should be taken against Helix because what was said was said on another forum.

    this is not a fair statement.

    just to clarify there are many different arguments on that thread:
    • some argue there should be no action.
    • some argue that the action taken sets a bad precedent.
    • some argue that the action taken was the wrong action in the context of the community at large and does little to adress the central issue.

    among others.

    edit: secondly, not all soccerfans are members of that community. thanks for tarnishing us all with the same brush.


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    #3
    PHB
    Registered Users Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    So what you're saying is that the people who have been banned have double standards? It's not hugely suprising to find that out about Helix has double standards.

    But the issue really isn't just about that, its about boards.ie in general. I'd hope we'd be above the sort of crap that they posted on the other forum.

    The amount of soccer forum posters in that thread who have no support for Helix personally whatsoever, but are just really concerned about the moderation issues outweighs those who are just supporting Helix for whatever reasons.


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    #4
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    It's not ironic, it's just childish.

    If mods don't like being discussed by the people they reign over they shouldn't be mods, imo

    And it's bad form that the issue has been blown out of proportion like this. Sure GY and Helix could have worked it out themselves without all this drama


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    #5
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    While at face value the point is valid. I am a soccer fan and am not part of xpert 11. Reading up on it I don't think it was right to try and get someone banned for actions on another site. I also see a difference that the admin at that site didn't ban the user. If anything the user in question should have took it up with the moderators of the game and it's forum. In my opinion.


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    #6
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    This thread is not about discussing the issue, I'm just spinning something off which struck me while reading that thread.

    The indignation of Helix and his supporters pales a touch when you realise that they were a lot more vitriolic about kicking GY out of their league for things she posts on a different site.


    Anyone need more sauce for their goose?

    DeV.


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    #7
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I have no idea what's going on but from the first post, it seems that, 'it is ok to ban somebody because they are hypocritical', I don't agree with that. It may not be. You may think it is justified to ban somebody for something said elsewhere like this, for other reasons, and are not using this thread for the issue. I don't think people should be banned for that by a moderator of a forum, but I have disagreed with this in the past where a moderator banned somebody from their forum for saying something in a different forum(within boards). I'm sure others will have another view, of course.


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    #8
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Its not the same thing though DeV. There seems to be a wave (small, medium or large) of dislike against GY which was taken off site. People called for her removal for silly things inlcuding being female. I mean, WTF? Posters who act like that are immature and chidish but as long as they dont do it on Boards - **** em. What they do on their own patch is their own business which we shouldnt stick our nose in. Sure its immature and ironic, but the fact is - GY was not (afaik) removed from the league. So that kind of rubbishes the theory and makes this post weak and more a "Protect GY at all costs" thread.


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    #9
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    Tar us all with the same brush with your thread title why don't you.

    Come on DeV, surely you are better than that?


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    #10
    The Recliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭The Recliner


    DeVore wrote: »
    I'll contribute my views and arguments about the main topic on the other thread but I cant believe this hasnt been said. Ok, let me get this right:

    The argument is that no action should be taken against Helix because what was said was said on another forum.

    Whats truely ironic and hypocritical is that this is the thread which started it all.

    Its a thread where two players are calling for Kev to "boot her from the league" because of... wait for it.... something she wrote on a totally different site (ie:Boards).

    So, its completely "outrageous" for us to ban someone for a month from the Soccer forum but its perfectly ok to abuse and kick someone out of your game for things written on a "3rd party website".


    Wow. The ironing is crunchy-nut.

    DeV.


    Tis just Banter don't you know DeV

    Seems the word banter has now just become a catch all excuse for those who want to be able to abuse other posters and their opinins

    Most posters in Soccer are great and it is a great forum with lots of useful info in the one place and excellent discussions on matchdays but there are a few in there who hold grudges and who want to be able to abuse others or redress wrongs, you will have that in most walks of life I suppose but they are percieved to be representative of the Soccer forum to those that don't go there often and that is unfair to the many useful poster that are in there


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    #11
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Des wrote: »
    Tar us all with the same brush with your thread title why don't you.

    Come on DeV, surely you are better than that?
    Sorry, you are right, I have amended the title of the thread.

    DeV.


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    #12
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    I doubt many people are defending Helix's actions, though. A good few people are defending his ban, though. But I'd say he has very little sympathy, by and large.


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    #13
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    The Recliner wrote: »
    Tis just Banter don't you know DeV

    Seems the word banter has now just become a catch all excuse for those who want to be able to abuse other posters and their opinins

    Most posters in Soccer are great and it is a great forum with lots of useful info in the one place and excellent discussions on matchdays but there are a few in there who hold grudges and who want to be able to abuse others or redress wrongs, you will have that in most walks of life I suppose but they are percieved to be representative of the Soccer forum to those that don't go there often and that is unfair to the many useful poster that are in there
    "Banter" when I were a a lad, was funny, witty and between two people who liked each other and who engaged in a sort of verbal humourous sparring. Its not someone sitting on a different site spouting abusive hate at someone else.

    DeV.


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    #14
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    @tallaght01:

    So you're saying we have a 5,000 view thread with hundreds of posts because the general consensus is

    "He was a dickhead, but you should let him away with it"?


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    #15
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    DeVore wrote: »

    The argument is that no action should be taken against Helix because what was said was said on another forum.

    Whats truely ironic and hypocritical is that this is the thread which started it all.

    Its a thread where two players are calling for Kev to "boot her from the league" because of... wait for it.... something she wrote on a totally different site (ie:Boards).

    So, its completely "outrageous" for us to ban someone for a month from the Soccer forum but its perfectly ok to abuse and kick someone out of your game for things written on a "3rd party website".

    hmmm...interesting take on the subject.
    You appear to find it hypocritical of them to want to remove her from their league because of something said on boards, yet find it perfectly ok to remove them from boards for something said on their forum.

    I'm not sure who is being more hypocritical here to be honest. Seems like a case of two wrongs definitely not making a right here.


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    #16
    The Recliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭The Recliner


    DeVore wrote: »
    "Banter" when I were a a lad, was funny, witty and between two people who liked each other and who engaged in a sort of verbal humourous sparring. Its not someone sitting on a different site spouting abusive hate at someone else.

    DeV.

    I agree completely but the use of the word lately has irked me

    The "It was only Banter" excuse has been used on the soccer forum on several occasions when people were being abusive and then people were accused of not understanding what Banter was and not getting it

    Oddly enough it was the people who were using the Banter defence who were not getting what Banter was, go figure

    Anyway this is off topic at this stage


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    #17
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Minesajackdaniels wrote: »
    @tallaght01:

    So you're saying we have a 5,000 view thread with hundreds of posts because the general consensus is

    "He was a dickhead, but you should let him away with it"?

    I think that is the consensus view, but I could be wrong. I think most people were concerned about the implications of the decision, rather than about helix.


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    #18
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    I think most people were concerned about the implications of the decision, rather than about helix.

    In that case, they shouldn't be concerned.
    This is only about Helix, his actions, or the lack there off, during and after the fact.


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    #19
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    In that case, they shouldn't be concerned.
    This is only about Helix, his actions, or the lack there off, during and after the fact.

    sure you refused to tell me why i was banned


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    #20
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    In that case, they shouldn't be concerned.
    This is only about Helix, his actions, or the lack there off, during and after the fact.

    It's about Emmo too, who also posted on the xpert11 thread

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055580820

    Funny how he was also banned by GY

    Seems to be a recurring theme now, and it stinks


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    #21
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    In that case, they shouldn't be concerned.
    This is only about Helix, his actions, or the lack there off, during and after the fact.

    Well that's fair enough for you to tell people, as you've been privvy to whatever happened when the thread was shut. But the punters who make the site what it is have a right to ask the question. Because precedent is as much in the perception as in the rulebook.

    It won't make jack all difference to anything I do. I was just being nosey because I was bored :P But I think most people can see why some of the more intensive users are concerned.


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    #22
    The Recliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭The Recliner


    My name is URL wrote: »
    It's about Emmo too, who also posted on the xpert11 thread

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055580820

    Funny how he was also banned by GY

    Seems to be a recurring theme now, and it stinks

    GuanYin did not ban Helix, the admins did

    How many times does this need to be said


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    #23
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Ludo wrote: »
    hmmm...interesting take on the subject.
    You appear to find it hypocritical of them to want to remove her from their league because of something said on boards, yet find it perfectly ok to remove them from boards for something said on their forum.

    I'm not sure who is being more hypocritical here to be honest. Seems like a case of two wrongs definitely not making a right here.
    The difference being that Helix was personally abusive and vitriolic in his post. GY was not.

    DeV.


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    #24
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    The Recliner wrote: »
    GuanYin did not ban Helix, the admins did

    How many times does this need to be said

    For much the same reasons though, speaking ill of her. I don't care about Helix or GY, I would like to see some clarification that there's a good chance people will be banned for talking about a game they're playing on another site, if what's said isn't 'agreeable' to a mod/admin here.


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    #25
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    Jesus wept, have you READ THE OTHER THREAD?


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    #26
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Have I been **** too much? Or are there two threads about this thing now? :P


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    #27
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Sorry, I started this thread to make a point. Its not a rerun of the other thread.

    I'll lock it after i get back from lunch. Post on topic or not at all thanks.


    DeV.


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    #28
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    DeVore wrote: »
    The difference being that Helix was personally abusive and vitriolic in his post. GY was not.

    DeV.

    Its juvenile banter between mates, you make out like its treason. Did people really get so upset? if you were a priest or 80 year old women then it would be shocking but c'mon, its pretty lame & tame.


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    #29
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    I doubt many people are defending Helix's actions, though. A good few people are defending his ban, though. But I'd say he has very little sympathy, by and large.

    +1. This point seems to be getting lost or ignored. I don't think many people are defending Helix's actions. If he and the others did what they did on Boards, I wouldn't think we'd have nearly as many dissenters.


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    #30
    The Recliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭The Recliner


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    Its juvenile banter between mates, you make out like its treason. Did people really get so upset? if you were a priest or 80 year old women then it would be shocking but c'mon, its pretty lame & tame.

    Dictionary definition of Banter

    ban ter
    –noun 1. an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks; good-natured raillery.

    –verb (used with object) 2. to address with banter; chaff.

    –verb (used without object) 3. to use banter.

    Those posts were not Banter, they were abusive, I fail to see how that can be defended


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    #31
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    The Recliner wrote: »
    Dictionary definition of Banter

    ban ter
    –noun 1. an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks; good-natured raillery.

    –verb (used with object) 2. to address with banter; chaff.

    –verb (used without object) 3. to use banter.

    Those posts were not Banter, they were abusive, I fail to see how that can be defended

    That's was the definition of banter, it has changed witha new generation. Outright abuse in online games is called banter these days, and is expected generally, in friendlies.


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