Should I sell at a loss, or wait?

paddyland

My apartment in north Kildare has been on the market now for two months, and not a single call. I put it up at €220,000, to give me room to negotiate down. Then I dropped it to €210,000, now €200,000.

If I sell it for less than €200,000, I end up in debt to the bank. But if I can't sell it at all, I am in worse debt.

I owe two years maintenance fee, and that will keep coming in annually. Likewise, if Lenihan brings in a property tax, I'll be saddled with that every year on top of my debts. I am out of work, and can't get anything.

My question is, should I sell now at any price and cut my losses, or hang on and see what happens? If prices continue to fall, I may get even less this time next year, and owe even more. Plus property tax, plus more bills. But nobody is buying apartments at any price. Brand new ones nearby are not selling at €180,000. How far do I drop?

What happens if I sell for less than the bank debt? What do I say to the bank? Renting is not an option, I owe far too much. I am not working, and have no social welfare, so cannot pay the bank a red cent.

Before anyone makes a smug comment, this was my home, not an investment, and I worked my ass off for years to get it. All those years wasted, all for nothing.

sneakerfreak

Im sorry I dont feel I have enough knowledge to give advice but you wont get any smug comments from me nor any other decent person.

Wish you the best.

quozl

The bank will have to agree to a sale for you to sell it below the out-standing loan to them.

They may well though, better to have an unsecured personal loan for X on you, than a loan for 10X secured on a property worth 8X imo.

If you want to sell, you'll have to price it ahead of other similar properties in the area. I can't tell you what to do, but I wish you the best of luck with it. Do give serious, serious thought to selling it for a loss now, if you can.

I was in a similar boat, and sold at the end of january - I was lucky enough to be able to borrow the small difference between the out-standing loan - my fairly substantial savings and get out. I'm very relieved that I did.

I wish I could tell you what to do for certain, but do deal with this now. Don't put things off. Hopefully some other posters can suggest who you should talk to. MABS.ie seem an obvious choice, if there isn't a massive waiting list.

paddyland

There is a THREE MONTH waiting list! God knows where I'll be by then!

I dearly want to sell now. I am under such pressure as I never dreamed possible. Every dream I ever had in life has been swallowed up by this mess. Everything I did for the past ten years was towards getting this home. I worked my ass off, and gave up my whole livelihood towards my future. A future that has now disappeared.

I am terrified to go to the bank. I have nothing to offer them. NOTHING. I have no income at all. I am living off my mother's widow's pension. I cannot rent, because there are a number of repairs that need to be done and I have no money to undertake them. Even if I could rent tomorrow, at least four month's rent would go to pay other debts before the bank ever got paid.

I have to sit down in the bank and tell them I have nothing to offer them. Nothing at all.

geem

If it was me I would undercut other similar properties and sell as as quick as I can. I saw a property go for auction recently it undercut others similar by a hundred thousand, however this attracted a lot of bidders who then bid it back up by 70,000.
IMO the longer you wait the more you will owe.

I hope the bank agree. Property especially apartments are going down so the bank should see the sense of you selling now before it gets even less.
Also go to mabs for financial advice. If you are unemployed you should be getting something. See if you have LES or Local Employment Services in your area - they are excellent at assisting people to access benefits etc,.

faceman

OP, you need to act immediately. Put yourself on the waiting list for MABS. Contact your bank and tell them of our financial predicament. They may grant you leeway on the mortgage payments for a month or 2 to allow you try organise your finances somehow.

EKRIUQ

Long shot but some banks AIB being one will allow you a break of payment of 3 months with only a phone call and 6 months if the Bank Manager allows it. They just put the interest on at the end of the loan, so you will pay extra at the end but desperate times need desperate measures.


Find out what’s going to happen if you stop paying your mortgage, you'll most likely get letter after letter looking for payment and then you'll probably get to court for a repossession order, not nice but if your resigned to the fact it's going to happen it will be easier to take. All this is going to do is buy you time at lease 12 months and hopefully you'll be in a better position and have employment again so you can argue your case and come to some arrangement with payments.

There’s no magic solution but there are ways of dealing with the stress

antoinolachtnai

Are you sure you can't get anything from social welfare? I just ask because if you have no source of income whatsoever and no assets, you should be able to get something from them.

Talk to the bank. Get someone to help you make the call.

The main thing is to get back up on your feet and get another job. That's what you have to concentrate on now.

You have done everything you can do regarding the apartment, if, like you say, people aren't buying 'em at any price.

Keep going. You will get through this.

The_Conductor

Paddyland- there is a social welfare type payment available which covers mortgage interest (no capital payments). If you contact your community welfare officer- they will be able to go into the details with you. You also need to talk to the bank. Advise them of the difficulties you find yourself in. The very worst thing you can do is put your head in the sand and hope things will get better- they won't. You need to be proactive.

MABS have a 15 week waiting list- get on the list. Your local bank manager will probably take a week or two to meet with. Get these things in train. Go to your local social welfare office and explain things to them- there are discretionary funds available for severe hardship cases- and go to the Community Welfare Officer and enroll in the mortgage interest payment scheme (if you're elligible).

I'm not being harsh- you need to make a 'to do' list- and start tackling this from several different directions simultaneously.

Best wishes,

Shane

paddyland

Many thanks for all your messages. One final question, please. These last six months have seen me completely mentally broken, depressed, and actively paralysed. I know what I need to do.

Can I tell these bank people just how mentally broken I have been, and why I have delayed six months due to the anxiety? Or should I not mention it?

tenchi-fan

paddyland wrote: »

Many thanks for all your messages. One final question, please. These last six months have seen me completely mentally broken, depressed, and actively paralysed. I know what I need to do.

Can I tell these bank people just how mentally broken I have been, and why I have delayed six months due to the anxiety? Or should I not mention it?

Paddy, as long as you make an attempt at repayments the courts will not allow them to repossess your house. BUT if you remain silent, another 6 months down the line the court will look at the facts, see you stopped repayments and no amount of pleading will help.

Banks all over the country redeployed people previously working in mortgages and new business to advisers to help you deal with debt. Agreeing to pay interest only is better to them than receiving nothing at all.

You can obviously mention you've been feeling depressed, just don't go overboard. I'm sure they'll understand the stress you are under.
edit: obviously tell them you were finding it hard to make ends meet and unfortunately let your mortgage get into arrears, and you would like to rectify this through a payment holiday, pay interest only, etc.

You are in a financial mess but just remember, a couple of months ago so were the banks. They received the biggest bailouts out of any one... billions in capital, the government guarantees.. the government is not letting them repossess houses easily.

tenchi-fan

Paddy I looked at a few of your previous posts, looks like times are tough.

If you are waiting on unemployment assistance, why not go down to the health board in the meantime.

You probably wonder how all those nigerians and romanians manage on nothing when they just come into the country... fact is, the health board subs them until their free dole, child benefit, social housing and free healthcare kick in (along with any other necessities low-paid Irish workers generally have to do without)

ronbyrne2005

paddyland wrote: »

Many thanks for all your messages. One final question, please. These last six months have seen me completely mentally broken, depressed, and actively paralysed. I know what I need to do.

Can I tell these bank people just how mentally broken I have been, and why I have delayed six months due to the anxiety? Or should I not mention it?

Go to doctor and get refferal to psych doc if your mental health is suffering. You could qualify for disability benefit(if mentally unwell) and rent allowance/mortgage relief that would cover the interest on your mortgage. Also social welfare is means tested so you are entitled to a weekly payment if you have no assets other than PPR.

who_ru

i can't understand why you would not be entitled to some form of welfare payment, you can't be expected to exist without any financial assistance.

please post back about your plan of action and how you tackled each item. your experiences could be of great help to others. as mentioned earlier make a list of your priorities, approach each in turn and don't feel bad about anything.

first thing i would do is ring the bank and make an appointment to see the manager, ask for a repayment break. 2nd approach social welfare/community officer, you must be paid something. 3rd Mabs. 4th future plans & prospects regarding jobs etc.

keep plugging away and you will be okay. very best wishes.

Senna

Dont worried about approaching the bank, these banks are even more in debt than you will ever be. Keep that in mind when talking to them, stay positive and although it looks dark now, you will get through all this and move on with your life.

I would first ask for a payment break, tell them that you hope to sell the house during this time. Be honest with them and tell them that you think you will have to sell for less than the mortgage amount outstanding.
If they say they will not let you sell below that cost, post back here or on www.thepropertypin.com for more advice on dealing with this.

I would also take the good advice above about contacting the community officer and/or the HSE.

Best of luck and stay positive, there are hundreds/thousands of people in your situation, you are not alone.

tedstriker

If you are considering selling you should consider how hard it will be to sell at what people think todays market price actually is. According to ESRI prices are at about 2004 levels. If you put your house for sale at that price then you'll not sell it. You will have to go to at least 2002 to get any interest from buyers. That means knocking loads of money off the price but in your heart you probably already know that.