English Paper 2 Leaked- Keep All Discussion to this thread- DUPLICATE THREADS LOCKED

randylonghorn

kona wrote: »

How can you claim to be correct, Its my opinion and im entitled to it.

Actually I don't, it's you who are claiming to know it all and shoving your opinion down everyone's throats.

Have you ever supervised an exam hall, btw?

I ask because you seem to have no difficulty whatsoever accepting the version of events which had all the exam papers in a large exam hall re-collected within 10 seconds.

kona

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

which is PLENTY of time for any student with copon to ferociously read and attempt to memorise the paper.

Yup but under the conditions, after you realise WTF is going on will take 10 secs at least then your read over it, desperatly looking for what you studied to see if its there.

The supervisior will instruct your paper to be put down, and closed, then taken up.

You seem to have done enough exams to know the routine.

alan4cult

kona wrote: »

Yup but under the conditions, after you realise WTF is going on will take 10 secs at least then your read over it, desperatly looking for what you studied to see if its there.

The supervisior will instruct your paper to be put down, and closed, then taken up.

You seem to have done enough exams to know the routine.

Do you like the number 10 or something if I said 15 seconds would you feel sad?

kona

randylonghorn wrote: »

Actually I don't, it's you who are claiming to know it all and shoving your opinion down everyone's throats.

Have you ever supervised an exam hall, btw?

I ask because you seem to have no difficulty whatsoever accepting the version of events which had all the exam papers in a large exam hall re-collected within 10 seconds.

Em I did my exam in a exam centre that had 30 seats:rolleyes: how do you know this isnt the same scenario in louth?
In a large exam hall how many are doing Higher? You will also be aware that they are grouped together pretty much.

Your shoving my opinion down your throat, because i certainly amnt.

kona

alan4cult wrote: »

Do you like the number 10 or something if I said 15 seconds would you feel sad?

okay 15 happy:rolleyes: still not enough IMO. youd want to be pushing 20 secs of reading time to have any impact.

PurpleFistMixer

kona wrote: »

Yup but under the conditions, after you realise WTF is going on will take 10 secs at least then your read over it, desperatly looking for what you studied to see if its there.

The supervisior will instruct your paper to be put down, and closed, then taken up.

You seem to have done enough exams to know the routine.

And I know that if a hall full of students had just been told what was going to be on tomorrow's exam, they wouldn't placidly put the paper down and not look at it while it was being taken up.

randylonghorn

kona wrote: »

Em I did my exam in a exam centre that had 30 seats:rolleyes: how do you know this isnt the same scenario in louth?
In a large exam hall how many are doing Higher? You will also be aware that they are grouped together pretty much.

Your shoving my opinion down your throat, because i certainly amnt.

Because I know which exam centre it was for one thing, and because I've practical experience of sitting on both sides of that desk for another.

But hey, have it your own way ... the SEC should have let the exam go ahead, and no damage would have been done, right?

j1smithy

Ah the annual leaving cert controversy...

Well all you students can be is thankful that the SEC decided to change the timetable from the traditional one (ie paper 2 on Wednesday afternoon). If it turned out that the paper had been leaked to the internet in the lunchtime its possible a national resit of the exam would have to take place... so it could be worse. Anyway I had a brief look at the other comments on this thread and having been a student of two teachers that write papers, the main paper and the back-up paper are written independently and its a toss up between the two that get chosen as the main paper. So to say if a poet was on the main paper its not to say it won't be on the back-up. The chances are the exact same.


Anyway to all the students, theres no need to be panicing or tieing yourselves in knots. The work is done at this stage. you might have to re-jig your study timetable...(i suggest study tomorrow morning what you would have done saturday morning).

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

kona

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

And I know that if a hall full of students had just been told what was going to be on tomorrow's exam, they wouldn't placidly put the paper down and not look at it while it was being taken up.

Fair point.

But as each paper is collected the number of students gaining a advantage is low.

Were talking around 30 students here.

Thats 30 students who saw the paper, how much information? nobody knows.

IMO it was a total overreaction that has totally ****ed up the 2009 Leaving Cert.

Another solution:
Why didnt they give the contingency paper out in louth and the normal one elsewhere? that way its isolated to 30 people and doesnt affect 115,00

kona

j1smithy wrote: »

Ah the annual leaving cert controversy...

Well all you students can be is thankful that the SEC decided to change the timetable from the traditional one (ie paper 2 on Wednesday afternoon). If it turned out that the paper had been leaked to the internet in the lunchtime its possible a national resit of the exam would have to take place... so it could be worse. Anyway I had a brief look at the other comments on this thread and having been a student of two teachers that write papers, the main paper and the back-up paper are written independently and its a toss up between the two that get chosen as the main paper. So to say if a poet was on the main paper its not to say it won't be on the back-up. The chances are the exact same.


Anyway to all the students, theres no need to be panicing or tieing yourselves in knots. The work is done at this stage. you might have to re-jig your study timetable...(i suggest study tomorrow morning what you would have done saturday morning).

It would have been better in the old format, they students would have been kept in the exam centre for lunch and not allowed to talk to anybody otside.

rebel girl 15

it is a big deal unfortunately - those papers are kept under lock and key, with legal implications.

I agree that the paper had to be rescheduled, and a different one given. From what has been said, (and what I've read here) the students broadly had an idea of what was on the paper, but no specifics. The SEC obviously consulted with lawyers as well as the education partners before taking this decision, a decision that had to be taken.

It would have huge legal implications for the SEC and that why they decided to take this course of action. It wasn't done on purpose, and for two other people to sign the form and the inviligator to hand out the paper, it must have been in the wrong package.

No doubt there will be a full SEC, Dept of Education and possibly a Garda investigation.

As regards how long between the seeing of the paper and taking up of the paper, it depends on how quickly the mistake was noticed, did all the class get wrong papers or was it just some, how big was the exam centre, did the students say it, or did the inviligator look at the papers and see?? There are too many questions surrounding it, but there are a few definates - the wrong paper was seen by students, the exam is on the Saturday with a backup paper, a paper which I think will be along the same lines as the original.

I have read some utter tripe and nonsense on sites about what should be done to the examiner, but this was not done on purpose! in fairness the examiner took ownership and responsility for the incident by reporting it.

if the exam had gone ahead, and this thing husshed up till afterwards (because it was always gonna come out!!!) after the exam, would u not hate to think that someone had a very unfair advantage because they saw the exam???

a previous poster mentioned that the paper should have gone ahead, and monitor the LC that got the paper - that then would be unfair, as the correctors would subconsciuosly give lower marks to those students. and if those student got the contigency paper instead, you would still have people complaining - the fairest thing was to have all students sit the bavk up paper

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

alan4cult

kona wrote: »

Fair point.

But as each paper is collected the number of students gaining a advantage is low.

Were talking around 30 students here.

Thats 30 students who saw the paper, how much information? nobody knows.

IMO it was a total overreaction that has totally ****ed up the 2009 Leaving Cert.

Another solution:
Why didnt they give the contingency paper out in louth and the normal one elsewhere? that way its isolated to 30 people and doesnt affect 115,00

But then they would have seen both papers and could tell every student in Ireland the contents of both papers and what a state the SEC would be in then!

blue-army

kona wrote: »

Another solution:
Why didnt they give the contingency paper out in louth and the normal one elsewhere? that way its isolated to 30 people and doesnt affect 115,00

Because, they obviously told everyone else what was coming up! :rolleyes:

Either way, this is a joke.

I won't mind though once, Bishop, Longley, Cult Context and an equally do-able MacBeth question come up!

Gazza22

kona wrote: »

IMO it was a total overreaction that has totally ****ed up the 2009 Leaving Cert.

I'd be more inclined to call that a total over reaction.

j1smithy

kona wrote: »

Why didnt they give the contingency paper out in louth and the normal one elsewhere? that way its isolated to 30 people and doesnt affect 115,00

Because the students in louth had broadcast the headlines from the paper on twitter and via text.. probably boards/bebo/facebook too it would have been unfair if the paper went ahead as normal to those who hadn't seen or heard what was coming up. Its not just the 30 louth students that would have had the advantage...

randylonghorn

kona wrote: »

It would have been better in the old format, they students would have been kept in the exam centre for lunch and not allowed to talk to anybody otside.

Actually, that is the first bit we might agree on.

It would have required careful supervision, ensuring no mobiles used etc., but it would have been practical, if difficult.

Assuming the supervisor reported it immediately, ofc, and in time to draft in extra resources, and there seems to be some doubt about that.

PurpleFistMixer

kona wrote: »

Fair point.

But as each paper is collected the number of students gaining a advantage is low.

Were talking around 30 students here.

Thats 30 students who saw the paper, how much information? nobody knows.

IMO it was a total overreaction that has totally ****ed up the 2009 Leaving Cert.

Another solution:
Why didnt they give the contingency paper out in louth and the normal one elsewhere? that way its isolated to 30 people and doesnt affect 115,00

You don't seem to get that information spreads. This is a rather small country and people would find out. So why not give the contingency paper to all the people in Louth, and all the people they came in contact with? And then, the people who came in contact with them? In fact, why not just give the contingency paper to everyone?
Oh wait, that's what they're doing.

This hasn't screwed up the LC. This has altered the date of one of the exams, and caused a bit of stress. That's it. Don't let it ruin the rest of your exams by overreacting.

ZorbaTehZ

j1smithy wrote: »

Anyway I had a brief look at the other comments on this thread and having been a student of two teachers that write papers, the main paper and the back-up paper are written independently and its a toss up between the two that get chosen as the main paper. So to say if a poet was on the main paper its not to say it won't be on the back-up. The chances are the exact same.

This.

Don't go adjusting study topics just because it appeared on the leaked paper. And stop with all the worrying!

kona

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

a previous poster mentioned that the paper should have gone ahead, and monitor the LC that got the paper - that then would be unfair, as the correctors would subconsciuosly give lower marks to those students

Thats not what I said. Subconsciously give lower marks? are you mad?

There is a graph that is matched every year as per results. They can apply this to the results and determine if there is anything out of the norm.

HAPPYGIRL

kona wrote: »

Em I did my exam in a exam centre that had 30 seats:rolleyes: how do you know this isnt the same scenario in louth?
In a large exam hall how many are doing Higher? You will also be aware that they are grouped together pretty much.

Your shoving my opinion down your throat, because i certainly amnt.

You are missing the point. Even if there was only 10 people in the exam hall then they could have potentially seen all the exam questions between them.

I know if i was sitting the leaving cert and got a future paper i'd make damn sure i remembered a few questions before the paper was recalled.

Did you not look at earlier posts practically every student in ireland had gotten a text as to what was on the paper. Whether the information was accurate or not is irrelevant the department had to take action. they have done exactly the right thing in these unfortunate circumstances.

Ok the timetable has been adjusted but the most important thing is that an air of calm should prevail.

kona

Gazza22 wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to call that a total over reaction.

You havnt been on the phone all day calming down a student have you?

I can tell you that their heads are all over the shop because of this.

I cant wait for the complaint for honours maths being hard.

randylonghorn

kona wrote: »

Th
There is a graph that is matched every year as per results. They can apply this to the results and determine if there is anything out of the norm.

Normative curve works is reliable only when dealing with very large numbers. It would be totally unreliable to map one class against.

That said, even if practical, that approach wouldn't have solved the bigger problem anyway ...

alan4cult

One fault I would pick with the SEC here is that they should have got the contingency paper out tonight. Whether it meant all night travel to Achill Island or Donegal it should have been done.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

kona

HAPPYGIRL wrote: »

You are missing the point. Even if there was only 10 people in the exam hall then they could have potentially seen all the exam questions between them.

I know if i was sitting the leaving cert and got a future paper i'd make damn sure i remembered a few questions before the paper was recalled.

Did you not look at earlier posts practically every student in ireland had gotten a text as to what was on the paper. Whether the information was accurate or not is irrelevant the department had to take action. they have done exactly the right thing in these unfortunate circumstances.

Ok the timetable has been adjusted but the most important thing is that an air of calm should prevail.

Okay IF all that happend and these students know all the paper2.

Why not just isolate the problem to this scholl by giving out a contingency paper?

Unless you actually see the paper, the rest is just rumour

KnifeWRENCH

Gazza22 wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to call that a total over reaction.

I agree with you, but there are some students out there who were incredibly stressed out to begin with and for something like this to happen will cause even more stress. There are going to be a few people who genuinely do feel like their entire Leaving Cert has been fcuked up by this.

If anyone who's reading this feels like that, you must realise that this really is not the end of the world. It's an unfortunate situation that caused a bit of unwanted disruption, but no more than that. Just concentrate on the rest of your exams. If they go well, you'll have almost forgotten all about this in a couple of weeks time.

bull_egan

right people heres what you do if you want to find how long it takes to collect all papers... you set out 10-12 sheets of paper spread evenly apart like in an exam hall then pretend to be giving out more papers then get told its paper 2 by some one who started reading the paper before been aloud then allow a few seconds for it to sink in then try run around picking up the papers trying to avoid tables.... so in my opinion and from reading the post alot of ppls opinion it would take at least a minute or two for the hole process to be finished with giving plenty of time to skim the paper

and also full questions havnt been quoted just poets which isnt that hard to remember
then if someone done macbeth you see deception itll stick in your head
and then cultural context and general vision and viewpoint

im an 18 yr old and not that smart but any one with half a brain could remember little things like that after a good minutes reading!!!!!!!!

alan4cult

kona wrote: »

Okay IF all that happend and these students know all the paper2.

Why not just isolate the problem to this scholl by giving out a contingency paper?

Unless you actually see the paper, the rest is just rumour

Because the rest of the country would sit the original paper and some would have the advantage of knowing what was on it. You cannot isolate the problem. The damage is well done by now.